American Flag

[beam]

I saw this graphic and it bothered me for some reason. Yes I counted 50 stars, but it is an incomplete representation of the US Flag.

http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=712838

That flag is not an American Flag eventhough it is intended to be. I did some research and found the following that suprised me:

Is it okay to have a flag t-shirt with words written on it?
No, the flag should never be worn and no, the flag should never have marks or words written upon it. Section 8d (see below): "The flag should never be used as wearing apparel." Section 8g: "The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature."

I know this must sound totally legalistic, but I don't think I will wear my Old Navy t-shirt anymore having read this.

I got this off of the following site:
Rules and Regulations (http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html)

Here is another good site:
Americanflags.org (http://www.americanflags.org)

[edweird]

the "wearing of the flag" is possibly the most commonly broken of all the flag rules and certainly the most overlooked. For instance we have black t-shirts at work with the Fighter Wing patch in the front and a flag on the back saying "Never forget 9-11". Yes this flag display violates the flag code, but to be honest no one cares about the letter of the law its the spirit that counts.

Now when madonna draped herself in the flag (and little else) during her old campaign of Shock and Awe, that was the living embodyment of how NOT to display the flag or images there of.


So to bring this to a point... seeing the flag on something tasteful is alright by me, But if your trying to say something offensive be warned your arse woopin is commin' :P

Same goes for you worn out BDU wearing ppl....... god I hate seeing people downtown like in walmart in BDU's, makes me want to buy a baseball bat and missuse it like they are doing to my uniform

[Trench]

Personally I think that the quote you made from the constitution does NOT suport your words...

It is along the same lines as never let a flag touch the ground...

Well, maybe... I think that it is saying the ACTUAL flag is not to be worn, not a copy of it...

[beam]

Yeah, I see your point about the spirit of the law versus the letter. And this excerpt concerning the Flag Code explains that it is just a guide for civilians...

The Flag Code

"The United States Flag Code, first adopted in 1923, and amended through 2001. prescribes flag etiquette for a variety of circumstances ensuring that our national symbol is treated properly.

This web site reflects the National Flag Foundation's explanation of the U.S. Flag Code in layman's language. NFF has not endeavored to restate the flag code, but rather to explain it in understandable terms. This site is an authoritative guide containing up-to-date recommendations for displaying, honoring and caring for the Flag of the United States of America -- our National Symbol.

Readers should always remember that the flag code is designed for "the use of such civilian groups or organizations as may not be required to conform with regulations promulgated by one or more executive departments of the U.S. Government."

Thus, the flag code does not contain any penalties or enforcement provisions for noncompliance. Quite simply, it is a guide for civilians and civilian groups who wish to properly honor the United States of America's principle emblem.

It should also be noted that each military branch has it own flag code; therefore, on matters concerning military flag etiquette, we recommend that you consult the specific branch code. "

[beam]

Originally posted by Trench
Personally I think that the quote you made from the constitution does NOT suport your words...

It is along the same lines as never let a flag touch the ground...

Well, maybe... I think that it is saying the ACTUAL flag is not to be worn, not a copy of it...

Trench, LOL!, dude that is NOT from the constitution. But I see what you are saying. I don't know whether the original code meant the actual flag or any representation of the flag. If you think about it, back in the old days, people short on fabric may have been tempted to use a flag to make a t-shirt out of. I don't know.

I do think it would be cool if someone would PS that sig image of yours to make it accurate at least.

[mag-hatter]

the worst is the anti flag things because they mock the iwo jima where the "soldiers" are punkers erecting the flag upside down. i <B>*POOF*</B> hate punks! the other one is their gay little logo in the box where the stars are supposed to be with the flag upside down!

<B>Warning: No Cussing</B> -Miscue

[Trench]

:p Nice call Beam... Hehe...

Anyways... I really dont know which it is refering to...

[bob87]

No, the flag should never be worn
Is this saing that the little pin the Bush wheres when he give his speaches is bad?? He is wharing it.

[HoppysMag]

Originally posted by mag-hatter
the worst is the anti flag things because they mock the iwo jima where the "soldiers" are punkers erecting the flag upside down. i ****Ing hate punks! the other one is their gay little logo in the box where the stars are supposed to be with the flag upside down!

see iv got a problem with that cause a upside down flag means the fort/base has fallen. doesnt it?

[shartley]

I think folks are assigning too many things to the “flag”… let me explain….

A T-Shirt is not a flag. A Headband is not a flag. A Bikini is not a flag.

PATTERNS of our flag are not the flag itself.

The flag guidelines have to do with the flag itself, not representations of the flag. Making a t-shirt with the pattern of our flag on it and then words over that is not against the rules as I see it. However, taking an actual flag and putting words on it IS. What was pointed out clearly states what the FLAG should and should not be used for, done to, done with, etc. NOT clothing or other objects that are clearly NOT flags, but that can have the colors or patterns of our flag ON them. There is a difference. ;)

If this was not the case, we could not even have the flag shown on TV with words or other pictures put over the top of it.. as we often see.. or print ads (even put out by the government), etc.

I see a gross misinterpretation of the “guidelines” meant for the FLAG….. we must keep in mind there IS a difference.

When I read this thread, I just had to run outside in the rain and take a quick shot of one of my Mustang’s license plates…. Enjoy!

[Fat Llama]

Shartley is right. You can wear flag t-shirts becuase they're just prints. If you took a real flag and wore it around as a robe, that would be wrong.

[beam]

Shartley that's a fitting plate for a stang. And you're right, it is just the flag, not representations.

On a side note, I saw a Saleen in Tulsa, OK last weekend when I was down there for a conference. What are your thoughts on those? Or are you a purebreed, build it yourself type of guy?

[shartley]

Originally posted by beam
Shartley that's a fitting plate for a stang. And you're right, it is just the flag, not representations.

On a side note, I saw a Saleen in Tulsa, OK last weekend when I was down there for a conference. What are your thoughts on those? Or are you a purebreed, build it yourself type of guy?
I am a “if it gets you where you need to go” type of guy. ;)

It’s all good to me. Old, new, factory, upgraded, whatever… All I ask of folks is that they take care of their vehicles… LOL ANY car that looks like the owner takes pride in it makes me smile… .Import, Domestic, does not matter.

Oh, you may not remember from my posting of pictures of my car back last year, but I have a pair of spurs hanging from my rear view mirror too. :D;)

[Army]

Sam is correct about the physical flag being used as bunting or apparel. As for the flag touching the ground, it must be an intentional, or malicious grounding to be considered desecrated. Flags will touch the ground, it's inevitable, but just because it may is not a reason to retire it. ( The Golden Knights jump with a flag hanging from a team members rigging, it nearly always hits the ground despite the best efforts of the ground crew to catch it first.)

[Trench]

Well, I am glad we got this cleared up...

So, it is ok to wear a print of one, just not the actual flag...

[bornl33t]

not that it's right or anything .. but just look at wally world? they ALL have us flags on the roof and they are all shredded, which is also not something your supposed to do, along with leaving it out at night, or in the rain.

I know alot about the American flag...just so I know how to handle it properly I did the reasearch a few years back.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Heat
not that it's right or anything .. but just look at wally world? they ALL have us flags on the roof and they are all shredded, which is also not something your supposed to do, along with leaving it out at night, or in the rain.

I know alot about the American flag...just so I know how to handle it properly I did the reasearch a few years back.
I don't like seeing places/people displaying/flying tattered flags.

But it is not “wrong” to have a flag out at night or in the rain. If out at night the flag should be illuminated. And rain and snow is not a good reason to bring in a flag, in itself. Severe weather can be, but it is best to put out a storm flag until the weather gets so bad that it warrants taking down all flags…. But that really does not happen very often.

NOTE: I have not seen a single store in my area displaying a tattered flag, or unlit flag at night… to include WalMart.