The new ANGEL SPEED (first hand)

[digitard]

Okay,
So my friend who owns paintballarizona.com just went to the Vegas NPPL and they had 30 of the new Angel Speed markers for sale (only 30 in the US) .. he got #2. He brought it back and sold it to someone on our team who just used it yesterday at the Desert Cup tourny ... after watching him use it all day and actually playing with it for a bit here's my feedback.

1) Its the best Angel EVER! Its got the new Cops on it, and its basically a LED version of the IR3

The reason I like that is not only do you get the wicked ROF and stuff of the IR3, you dont have the LCD and all that junk to worry about or have go wrong.

The marker is AMAZING ... if your an Angel person I highly recommend looking into it.

Sincerely,
Dave K

[fire1811]

yeah i love my xmag but i have to say the speed does
rip.

i had an Dark led angel and loved the fact that you just
flipped a switch and you where good to go
all that crap on ir3 and lcds is just something
else to break(let the flaming begin:D )

here is a vid of speed in action
http://www.forceofnature.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewdownload&cid=12

[Havoc_online]

everything rips nowadays.

call me when you get a vid of it doing 30:rolleyes:.

I'm curious, will it pinch paint?(they boasted about a lower bolt speed, etc. (yet they can shoot FASTER!?)):confused:

WDP's motto should be "Sell your old Angel, buy our new Angel". or "As if we didnt have the best marker(by far) in the world already - we figure out how to make it better every few months so keep sending us your money!!!"
maybe even "Believe what we tell you to believe, please?"

[fire1811]

30bps...maaayyybeeee:rolleyes:

as for pinching paint
lets just say im not going to stick my finger in the
feedtube :)

[ReTro Boy]

Originally posted by fire1811
as for pinching paint
lets just say im not going to stick my finger in the
feedtube :) Now THAT'S a video I'd like to see...;)

[Aliens-8-MyDad]

hmm finger? why not your tounge? (tom :))

[Cliffio]

Originally posted by Havoc_online
WDP's motto should be "Sell your old Angel, buy our new Angel". or "As if we didnt have the best marker(by far) in the world already - we figure out how to make it better every few months so keep sending us your money!!!"
maybe even "Believe what we tell you to believe, please?"

you know when you open the can of company attacks, your gun choice isnt bullet proof.

[Jonesie]

Well, when someone puts a morlock board (or equivalent) in it and gets it to cycle @ 30bps, I'd like to see it. My guess is that it will have a noticable amount of shoootdown.

Please note: I did not say massive, large, huge, or any other adjective of the large variety. It is my belief that it will exhibit signs of shootdown at that ROF.

Now having said that, do we have a video of the E-Mag doing 30bps? I thought I recalled seeing one that proves there is no shootdown. Can someone post a link?

Thanks ~ Dave

[JEDI]

Originally posted by Havoc_online
everything rips nowadays.

call me when you get a vid of it doing 30:rolleyes:.

I'm curious, will it pinch paint?(they boasted about a lower bolt speed, etc. (yet they can shoot FASTER!?)):confused:

WDP's motto should be "Sell your old Angel, buy our new Angel". or "As if we didnt have the best marker(by far) in the world already - we figure out how to make it better every few months so keep sending us your money!!!"
maybe even "Believe what we tell you to believe, please?"
There's a typical AutoMag user answer. "Dont believe the hype unless it's in our favor." What does 30 bps do for you? You can't shoot that fast. Its not like the gun only doing twenty, is limiting your game play.

It doesnt say anywhere, slower bolt speed. It says lower pressure running the bolt. So it probably has more ability to pinch. Unless you want to flat out not believe it (which is a valid opinion) it does claim to be capable of 30 bps.

Besides, "everything rips nowadays" :D

[azzkikr]

i stick my finger in my angels feedtube all the time. whats so bad about it? it doesn't hurt. i would post a video but my little digital camera takes video but without sound, and I know that someone here wouldn't belive that I was acutally fireing since they couldn't do a sound analisis and whatnot.

[Jonesie]

Originally posted by JEDI

There's a typical AutoMag user answer. "Dont believe the hype unless it's in our favor." What does 30 bps do for you? You can't shoot that fast. Its not like the gun only doing twenty, is limiting your game play.

It doesnt say anywhere, slower bolt speed. It says lower pressure running the bolt. So it probably has more ability to pinch. Unless you want to flat out not believe it (which is a valid opinion) it does claim to be capable of 30 bps.

Besides, "everything rips nowadays" :D

Actually, I think a fairer assumption of an Mag user would be:
"Don't believe the hype without proof." Most everything we believe around here (Cockers not shooting farther, E-Mag cycles @ 30bps w/shootdown, etc) has been proven.

I agree, who could actually get 30 and why would it matter? For me, it's more of an issue with baseless claims. That's the thing I hate most about our sport. 'Cockers shoot farther because their cockers' etc. WDP publishes this info and offers no support that I can find.

Let the Angel shoot 30bps without shootdown, that's be great! I'd say show me a human hitting 30 in semi with their own finger.

Later ~ Dave

[Havoc_online]

"Dont believe the hype unless it's in our favor." I dont believe anything until I see it. AGD is usually the one to dish out proof at the same time they make claims. And when I hear something pro-mag that aint true, I stop it. So dont be so quick to bunch me with the type you seem to know.


What does 30 bps do for you? You can't shoot that fast. what you said is worthless, when did I say I needed to shoot that fast, I only said that I wanted to see a vid, I want them to back thier claim(It probably could be done but I wont be a believer until I see it).



It doesnt say anywhere, slower bolt speed.
from the actual advertisement:

LPR pressure is 1/3 less than previous Angels, meaning 33% less force is applied by the bolt to the ball.
33% less force means 33% slower than before before

Clif-
I CHOOSE AGD because I have always known and seen them to do the right thing and not release anything I'd question.

I dont just flat out choose to hate other companies either(I wait to make my opinion), there are plenty that I like other than AGD(although I only use AGD products) however I have been in the position to see what goes on first hand(plenty of times) and what WDP will resort to in order to try and control the market, THAT's why I hate them.

[Cliffio]

wdp tries to control the market?? oh please

wdp has 2 guns the ir3 and the speed, you could count 2k3 lcd altho they are not made and only a limited number were made.
no other company has fewer high end markers besides maybe smart parts.


your quote below shows quite a bit of ignorance, if you think that wdp is the only company to bring new models to create sales. did agd not create the xmag to generate revenue? and do you think that every person with an emag will keep theirs even after the 12 month waiting list is over? im sure not.



Originally posted by Havoc_online
WDP's motto should be "Sell your old Angel, buy our new Angel". or "As if we didnt have the best marker(by far) in the world already - we figure out how to make it better every few months so keep sending us your money!!!"

[Cliffio]

Originally posted by Havoc_online
I CHOOSE AGD because I have always known and seen them to do the right thing and not release anything I'd question.

how easily you forget the superbolt:rolleyes:

[Gecko]

Havoc
Bolt speed is totally determined by flow into the cylinder, this is why you see all the timmy users putting high flow bards onto thier guns.
All pressure controls is the force with which the bolt moves. The reason people correlate bolt speed and pressure is because generally with higher pressures greater flow is found
I always thought speed was controlled by pressure until my fluid power teacher beat the real info into my skull

[Havoc_online]

Originally posted by Cliffio
wdp tries to control the market?? oh please

wdp has 2 guns the ir3 and the speed, you could count 2k3 lcd altho they are not made and only a limited number were made.
no other company has fewer high end markers besides maybe smart parts.


your quote below shows quite a bit of ignorance, if you think that wdp is the only company to bring new models to create sales. did agd not create the xmag to generate revenue? and do you think that every person with an emag will keep theirs even after the 12 month waiting list is over? im sure not.




lol,
1.how long after the Emag did AGD release the Xmag?
2. how many angels were released in 02'-03' ?

and AGD is STILL building newer upgrades and giving more options to the Emag owners so they always have the up to date custom marker they want without having to buy an all new marker.

As for the superbolt, it was a machining error that caused all the problems, an error which was taken care of for free to all the customers by AGD.

[Ironmag]

Here is my opinion on this whole "30 bps" thing. As in other markers like the timmy, the "X" bps number for traditional electronic markers (ie, timmy, angel, etc... that use micro switches instead of magnets) means that it slices the time into that many parts. For example, a stock timmy can shoot as fast as 14 bps. What that means if you pull the trigger just right and at the right speed, you can get upto 14 shots, but most likely you will get about 11 or 12 since humans aren't machines and most likely not get a perfect rhythm. That is why they make the WAS board and such that shoot at 66.6 bps. Now, it's impossible to shoot at 66.6 balls per second but that just gives you the opportunity/guarantee to shoot every time you pull the trigger. I see the same idea with the Angel when they say it shoots at 30 bps, it's just more windows of opportunity to get your shot off. I really like this gun and most likely the money that I get working this summer will be put into getting this gun. I see nothing wrong with companies wanting to improve their products, be it twice a year or whatever. There is no single perfect product, just about everything can be improved upon. That's my $0.02.

[Cliffio]

wdp had one model in 2002 the ir3 and 3 models in 2003 ir3, lcd, speed


and the led was out for 2 years before the lcd, the lcd was out for 2 years until the ir3 and the ir3 was out for a year until the speed.


how about those timmys? how about those impulses? why only pick on wdp if you want to talk about models? bob longs website sells what, 4 or 5 timmys that are the same?

[fire1811]

its just nice when a upgrade comes out you know
you dont have to buy a new gun, because it will fit all guns they have made.

and when when agd comes out with an upgrade it ACTUALLY
is for better performance.

[wyn1370]

Originally posted by Havoc_online
and AGD is STILL building newer upgrades and giving more options to the Emag owners so they always have the up to date custom marker they want without having to buy an all new marker.
and all the upgrades are available for normal emags that come with the x-mag.
can't get ace
no modular feeds


As for the superbolt, it was a machining error that caused all the problems, an error which was taken care of for free to all the customers by AGD.
if it was a machining error, why'd they scrap it vs. running a new batch?

[nippinout]

With the 33% reduction in LPR psi, I want to know what they changed for that to work.

You can reduce the psi, but you'd have to increase the size of the hammer area or it's mass. It still has to open up a valve. F=ma.

33% reduction in LPR psi = hype.

[Cliffio]

its not hype, the lpr pressure doesnt lie it use to be 87 or whatnot and now its something aaround 60.

im not positive about the numbers

[wyn1370]

Originally posted by fire1811
its just nice when a upgrade comes out you know
you dont have to buy a new gun, because it will fit all guns they have made.
note above
also ULE's won't fit RTs or micromags
x-valves - no go in RTs

[CRog075]

haha havoc is getting pwned by so many people. I love to see mag fanboys like havoc get pwned.


Please havoc, once the number of emag users reach the number of angel users, gimme a ring. Till then, I know more people who use LED's then e-mags. Pfftt....mag fanboys

[CRog075]

Originally posted by Havoc_online

WDP's motto should be "Sell your old Angel, buy our new Angel". or "As if we didnt have the best marker(by far) in the world already - we figure out how to make it better every few months so keep sending us your money!!!"
maybe even "Believe what we tell you to believe, please?"


Also, should was those quotes suppose to be funny or something? I don't get it.....

[fire1811]

posted by crog075
Please havoc, once the number of emag users reach the number of angel users, gimme a ring. Till then, I know more people who use LED's then e-mags. Pfftt....mag fanboys

yeah and i know more ppl that use spyders then
angels

angelboys OWNED :p

[FutureMagOwner]

Originally posted by wyn1370

note above
also ULE's won't fit RTs or micromags
x-valves - no go in RTs

the micro mag is in essence a custom automag so how is it a problem if the ule body doesnt fit on a micro mag body(besides they are both aluminum anyway)

[nippinout]

Originally posted by Cliffio
its not hype, the lpr pressure doesnt lie it use to be 87 or whatnot and now its something aaround 60.

im not positive about the numbers

WDP didn't tell us what they changed to allow that lower operating pressure. They still have to open a valve.

The hammer/bolt/ram force has to be greater than the valve pin force to open it.

Reducing the operating pressure is fine and dandy, but it won't necessarily aid in slower bolt speed and less chopping.

[fire1811]

ahhh but its a good selling point ;)

[nippinout]

Oh definitely it's a good selling point.

I REALLY like the look of the speedometer looking meter on the board.

Reminds me of the fad when every car had to have LED speedos and tachs. :)

[CRog075]

Originally posted by fire1811


yeah and i know more ppl that use spyders then
angels

angelboys OWNED :p

If you know more people that use spyders, then you sir, are a newbie. You must not do alot of tournament ball.

[WARPED1]

I'm speechless, I'd buy one if I had the money.

[nippinout]

Originally posted by CRog075


If you know more people that use spyders, then you sir, are a newbie. You must not do alot of tournament ball.

What's so wrong with that?

I know people with stock cockers. OOOH, SINNERS!!!

What's wrong with not playing tourneys? I don't, I'm strictly rec-ball.

I do not appreciate people who look down on those who are noobs or those who don't play tourneys.

You officially suck.

[fire1811]

crog075
If you know more people that use spyders, then you sir, are a newbie. You must not do alot of tournament ball

me a newb with not a lot of tourny ball eh..hmmm
how about 1st place skyball, 1st place hunington beach NPPL, 2nd place Las vegas NPPL

yep your right no experiance at all


sorry to tell you this but there are a lot more rec players then tourney players and most of them dont use $1500 guns
who do you think is making the sport cheaper for tourny players??? its the rec ballers so its best not to jag on them.

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by JEDI

There's a typical AutoMag user answer. "Dont believe the hype unless it's in our favor." What does 30 bps do for you? You can't shoot that fast. Its not like the gun only doing twenty, is limiting your game play.

It doesnt say anywhere, slower bolt speed. It says lower pressure running the bolt. So it probably has more ability to pinch. Unless you want to flat out not believe it (which is a valid opinion) it does claim to be capable of 30 bps.

Besides, "everything rips nowadays" :D I thought the same exact thing, mag guys seem pretty close minded when something challenges thier mag.(and I shoot two mags!)

[Smoken]

Shoot, I was hoping to find some feedback on what people think of the Speed b/c for the price it sounds pretty cool, and you all turned this into a flamefest. Grow up.

[Manuel_FZR]

guys, I´m next weekend at the MaxsMasters (there is also the European Presentation of the Speed) and will take a closer look at the speed ... I will tell you. ;)
And if it is lp or not - it does nothing about accuracy, chopping (this is way too much pressure) or anything... it´s a hype.

btw: I shoot a mag and an angel ... still saving money for my X ;)

[Cyberious]

Originally posted by CRog075


If you know more people that use spyders, then you sir, are a newbie. You must not do alot of tournament ball.

You can't be serious. I hope not since this sounds like some sort of eliteism. It is highly likely that a majority of players do use Spyders (and clones). This is particularly true if you include field rentals. You can't really believe that the largest percentage of the 3 million + paintball players world wide are tournament players. I go to World Cup every year as well as several other tournaments around the world and have yet to see more that a few hundred at one time. Most of the time they are the same people.

It is true that some folks become defensive over their chosen brand of marker. This doesn't matter if you are Pro-Mag, Pro-Angel, Pro-Cocker, etc. The perfect marker for anyone is the one that they feel most comfortable with regardless of brand. These arguments are generally pointless as no one can tell you what the best marker is if you've made up your mind. Humans generally do not like to put themselves in a state of Cognitive Dissonance. This is basically the state when you are forced to question those beliefs that you've convinced yourself of and are asked to re-evaluate them. Basically you are internally arguing with yourself.

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by Havoc_online


lol,
1.how long after the Emag did AGD release the Xmag?
2. how many angels were released in 02'-03' ?

and AGD is STILL building newer upgrades and giving more options to the Emag owners so they always have the up to date custom marker they want without having to buy an all new marker.

As for the superbolt, it was a machining error that caused all the problems, an error which was taken care of for free to all the customers by AGD.
All the Speed is is an LED IR3, its not really that new.
I count two Angels in 02-03, the IR3 and the Speed.

[Cliffio]

Originally posted by WARPED1
I count two Angels in 02-03, the IR3 and the Speed.

exactly

[RRfireblade]

There's so much Crap flying around here,I'm afraid to open my mouth.:eek:

#1- If you think Highend Markers outsell Spyders and thier clones,you must be nuts.

#2- You CAN lower LPR pressure and only very slightly slow bolt speed down but greatly lessen the force of the bolt.It's called dwell adjustment.Just one of the perks of an electro.I believe max cps,I said CPS, for a typical Angel type mechanism,(IE. Angel,Impulse,Timmy,Bushmaster) is around 40,So 30 is very likely possible with a slightly slower bolt speed.

#3- Butters Emag was amazing,however I didn't see a crono in any of the videos(not like it would work anyway)but who knows if it had shoot down.It probably had quite a bit since he could hardly get enough air INTO the valve to simply cycle that fast.

#4- Mags Rock I have 2.(just had to put that in somewhere.

#5- Name 1 company still in business that doesn't bring out new product on any kind of a regular basis it's called profit and sales margins.

#6- AGD would never release a flawed product.
A- Superbolts
B- High rise powerfeeds
C- ULE (detent tolerance)
D- Mags don't chop but here's a L10 upgrade so it
doesn't chop even more.Oh and it's not free.
E- Emag software gliches.(still not addressed)

#7- AGD is probably this best at making upgrades that retrofit older markers.Smart parts isn't far behind.There isn't many new parts that won't fit all Impulses.And cocker for that matter.Oh, and most spyders and clones.And don't forget Tippy's.Oh well.

#8- The new speed looks awesome(IR3),seems to perfom close to or as advertised and is,brace yourselves,CHEAPER than an IR3.Not to shabby.

Well that's enough for now,I'm hungry.

Let the Flaming commence......

Jay.

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by RRfireblade
There's so much Crap flying around here,I'm afraid to open my mouth.:eek:

#1- If you think Highend Markers outsell Spyders and thier clones,you must be nuts.

#2- You CAN lower LPR pressure and only very slightly slow bolt speed down but greatly lessen the force of the bolt.It's called dwell adjustment.Just one of the perks of an electro.I believe max cps,I said CPS, for a typical Angel type mechanism,(IE. Angel,Impulse,Timmy,Bushmaster) is around 40,So 30 is very likely possible with a slightly slower bolt speed.

#3- Butters Emag was amazing,however I didn't see a crono in any of the videos(not like it would work anyway)but who knows if it had shoot down.It probably had quite a bit since he could hardly get enough air INTO the valve to simply cycle that fast.

#4- Mags Rock I have 2.(just had to put that in somewhere.

#5- Name 1 company still in business that doesn't bring out new product on any kind of a regular basis it's called profit and sales margins.

#6- AGD would never release a flawed product.
A- Superbolts
B- High rise powerfeeds
C- ULE (detent tolerance)
D- Mags don't chop but here's a L10 upgrade so it
doesn't chop even more.Oh and it's not free.
E- Emag software gliches.(still not addressed)

#7- AGD is probably this best at making upgrades that retrofit older markers.Smart parts isn't far behind.There isn't many new parts that won't fit all Impulses.And cocker for that matter.Oh, and most spyders and clones.And don't forget Tippy's.Oh well.

#8- The new speed looks awesome(IR3),seems to perfom close to or as advertised and is,brace yourselves,CHEAPER than an IR3.Not to shabby.

Well that's enough for now,I'm hungry.

Let the Flaming commence......

Jay.
ALL good points that I agree on!
If I get the money, I will opwn a Speed..........

[Jack & Coke]

Nice gun, great price...

However, too bad the guy in the video doesn't know jack about the laws of physics... what a big dummy!

From the FON video link posted above:





...you've got this whole new air chamber... you can add any size length volumizer out on the front to get the gun down as low as a Matrix... like a 150 psi for you who want those really flat shots...




http://www.automags.org/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif:rolleyes:

[-=Squid=-]

Originally posted by Cliffio
wdp had one model in 2002 the ir3 and 3 models in 2003 ir3, lcd, speed


and the led was out for 2 years before the lcd, the lcd was out for 2 years until the ir3 and the ir3 was out for a year until the speed.


how about those timmys? how about those impulses? why only pick on wdp if you want to talk about models? bob longs website sells what, 4 or 5 timmys that are the same?

You are forgetting the impact, and some others. But I totally agree with you. I love these forums, but its pretty hard to show the mag users numbres that they will believe, being a micromag owner I dont diss mags. Honestly, I think havoc is pretty biased. If he had a IR3 or something, he would be humming a different tune. All I am saying is that you should at least try the product first eh?

[Phil]

There have been lots of crazy claims from marker companies, "Our marker shoots 9999 bps". I am not disputing any companies claims because I haven't personally tested to see if they are true. Personally I see it as irrelevant. I am resonably certain that any of the high end electro's will fire MUCH faster than any human can pull the trigger. I know it is true of my E-mag and my IR3. That is really all that matters is it not? Its kind of like a marketing arms race. The human race is doing incredible things with technology these days. I don't think its as a stretch that the speed can fire 30 bps.

I realize that you people love AGD and their markers. Its what brought us all here. They make arguably some of the most trouble free and easy to maintain markers available. WDP makes a great gun. Sure they are packed with useless features. (I am still trying to figure out what the hell all that crap is in my IR3) Sure they have marketing designed for their target market (teenagers). You have to give them some credit. They probably easily count for 30% of market share in the high end electro category. They have a smart marketing plan and make a quality product. They have products for sale (xmag??). I am still trying to understand AGD's marketing strategy or lack there of. I suspect that they don't have a marketing specialist on staff. I am completely amazed that they could think its a good idea to go into production with the X-Mag and not produce enough to meet current demand. Actually I can understand not meeting the demand. But not even producing enough to cover pre-orders much less produce enough for their retailers is just plain nutts.

I guess my point is that WDP and AGD make great products but neither company is perfect. I prefer my Angel over my mag. Its all about personal preference. Often times when people post about other companies here its game on! Let the "its not a mag" bashing begin and thats B.S. I think it detracts from this community.

phil

P.S. I got your back cliffy...;)

[Miscue]

Havoc's claims are substantiated. Nothing wrong with what he has said. You guys just throw around words, like 'biased', rather than explain why what he has said is inaccurate, if they are at all.

Knock off the 'biased' crap, and explain the WHY's and HOW COME's... which you head flappers have not delivered.

[CRog075]

Originally posted by Miscue
Havoc's claims are substantiated. Nothing wrong with what he has said. You guys just throw around words, like 'biased', rather than explain why what he has said is inaccurate, if they are at all.

Knock off the 'biased' crap, and explain the WHY's and HOW COME's... which you head flappers have not delivered.


So havoc just didnt throw around words? :rolleyes:

[Miscue]

No.

[CRog075]

Originally posted by Havoc_online

WDP's motto should be "Sell your old Angel, buy our new Angel". or "As if we didnt have the best marker(by far) in the world already - we figure out how to make it better every few months so keep sending us your money!!!"
maybe even "Believe what we tell you to believe, please?"

I call that throwing around bs words.

[Miscue]

It's a sarcastic remark in case you didn't notice.

[Cliffio]

squid, an impact is still an lcd or an ir3 im talking models not milling types


to everyone that thinks this is a flame contest, look back at what started it all, not an angel person saying anything about how good it was but rather some saying other things.

[Havoc_online]

LOL, I get back online and see that I've been "pwned":rolleyes:

All everyone did was twist my words around and argue points I didnt make.

It seems most of the people in here need to relax and know how and when to take a joke(which is what my "motto" statement was).

I never said that WDP made worthless products, I only stated that I wanted to see them back thier claims. The Angel in most if not all it's forms is a great marker. I just dont like the people who run the company. and YES they try and control the market, but it would be bad form to say how(even at the risk of looking wrong, but if/when we meet someday Cliff, remind me and I'll tell you:))


with the lack of spyders or experince statement alone, plz - there's probably more spyders and clones then any other 3 high-end selling markers so that point is also worthless, just cause there's more of something or less of something doesnt make it the best or worst.

Unless valid reasoning is made I'm not posting in here anymore, lol. :rolleyes:

[Miscue]

Word.

[-=Squid=-]

Originally posted by Cliffio
squid, an impact is still an lcd or an ir3 im talking models not milling types


to everyone that thinks this is a flame contest, look back at what started it all, not an angel person saying anything about how good it was but rather some saying other things.
Oh, personally I would consider it a an angel to be accounted for, but dont worry, I got your back. Oh, and miscue, wtf is your problem? What he said was biased, there need be no explanation for it.

[Miscue]

How is it biased. Explain.

[FooTemps]

About 100% of the people I play with outside of AO play with own spyders/spyder clones... Is there a problem with that? No! The majority of my friends are rec ballers that dont' play on a weekly basis. (i'm in the category but I'm hoping that will change) They don't want to crack open their savings accounts to buy an angel or a cocker or a mag. They wish they could play more, they wish they could get better guns. BUT, they don't have the need for them so they don't buy them. If you don't understand that some people can't just pay 1000 for an angel or even 300 for a cocker then you've got to quit hanging with those high end gun users and hang out with the newbs more. It's insane to buy an angel if you play once every month or even every other month in a woods field.

All the complanies make so many claims these days about their high end markers. It's stupid to even bother with arguing those sometimes. We can't prove each point unless you hack the board to see the max bps on unlimited full auto. We can't find out how consisent a marker is during full auto. Sure, they can say the angel speed, emag, timmy, whatever could fire 30bps, but would it really change our game so much? No, it's just a show to get more customers. They're all top end markers so it wouldn't matter which one you play with. At that point all that really matters is preference. You can be pro-emag, pro-angel, pro-eblade cocker, pro-whatever but you should at least admit that all these markers will perform in the range of excelling to make me pee my pants awesome.

[CRog075]

Originally posted by Havoc_online

I CHOOSE AGD because I have always known and seen them to do the right thing and not release anything I'd question.

I dont just flat out choose to hate other companies either(I wait to make my opinion), there are plenty that I like other than AGD(although I only use AGD products) however I have been in the position to see what goes on first hand(plenty of times) and what WDP will resort to in order to try and control the market, THAT's why I hate them.


I think that pretty sums up some of the biased stuff he says. Mainly when he says "I only use AGD Products". The only people who would really use AGD products are, people biased towards AGD, or AGD Fanboys. He also states he hates WDP, and he says that he likes other companies, but doesnt state which ones, which are none. So in conclusion:

havoc = agd fanboy

[Havoc_online]

there are plenty that I like other than AGD

"He also states he hates WDP"


The Angel in most if not all it's forms is a great marker. I just dont like the people who run the company

CRog075 = SLOWboy


:)

[Miscue]

Aye. I forget about the 12 year olds on this board.

I own AGD guns exclusively, until money finds me. I like Autocockers. I like Angels. I like Timmys. Played with them all... they all work fine. Havoc could tell you the same.

Do we have to buy the guns we talk about to not be biased? That is ridiculous!

Just because someone is a fan of one particular company, does not mean that what he says about others is A. Biased or B. Incorrect.

Just because someone doesn't like something or the people involved, doesn't mean they are biased. I hate bees, and wasps... if I say that they have 6 legs should you ignore this because I am 'biased' against bees and wasps?

And... is anything Havoc has said wrong? If it's not wrong, then where's the issue of bias? The problem with bias is that it leads to the 'wrong' conclusions for the 'wrong' reasons. I don't see where he's done this. Point it out if you can.

The word is being used out of context.

[magman007]

and just to remind you all, the agd superbolt was scrapped, because some kid lied about them breaking in a very dangerous way, causing tom to do a full recall on the bolt. Afterthat, and the breakage problems, tom decided to stop it there, good and for all. Now, with lvl 10, tom could create a new super bolt, and probabally have it work just fine.

[CRog075]

Originally posted by Havoc_online


"He also states he hates WDP"



CRog075 = SLOWboy


:)


Yes, you said that after you got flamed, so you dont look any more biased, smart ___. See, you try to act like you "own" me, but yet, you fail.

[Telefragged]

I haven't posted in a while, and really have no opinion one way or another about the guns being discussed here. Just look at what's been written so far, I mean, do you really think you can ever get anything settled by arguing over the internet with people you've never seen or met? Give me a break... people shoot what they like, leave them be...

[FooTemps]

Just quit arguing okay? Both of you think you're right and you'll never get anywhere with this argument... Just stop.

[Load SM5]

Crog and the rest of the guys flaming....Chill out. This was a nice information thread about the new angel but its degenerated fast into a flame fest. You guys have stated you opinions and Havoc has stated his. Let's keep the personal attacks out of it.

[Havoc_online]

Originally posted by CRog075



Yes, you said that after you got flamed, so you dont look any more biased, smart ___. See, you try to act like you "own" me, but yet, you fail.

wrong CHILD - you took it that way the first time I said I hated WDP. - your wrong.

EDIT for Load - I'm done, no more posting in here for me since it cant be kept civil.

[Miscue]

Getting back to the Angel Speed... got a chance to see them at Vegas NPPL.

Sexy!

I'd like to have one if I had money... maybe mount it on my wall.

[~WarpedRT#2~]

CRog075, what a fine place you've come to, in order to insult a "mag fanboy" I wonder what made you think there would be those type of people here?? Anyway, your obviously going to get more sympathy towards mags here, so think about it a litte. Duh.

Cyberious is right, the best gun in the world is the one you feel most comfortable with. I've shot a few types of Angels, and I really didn't care for them that much. Yeah, I could come out blasting words like, "I'll play you with an E-Mag without a battery, and you play me with an Angel without a battery and lets see who wins" But I wont, because that will start a whole new set of flames.

Lets face facts. The markup on paintball guns is huge. I don't know how huge, but after the machining equipment has been paid off, the only thing left to cover is the help, materials and building costs, and all those associated with that. It's not like they couldnt manufacture their guns cheaper. They choose not to. Thats why I won't buy an Angel. They cost too damn much! I'm not about to blow over $1000 on a paintball gun. Sure, I love the sport, and all that good stuff, but since I'm in college, I have very limited time to work, and I can only afford so much. I wonder how so many people can afford such nice guns??

oh, and CRog075, what a stupid thing to say about spyders and newbies. I use a little old RT, compared to... what ever you shoot, I must be a newbie. I don't like Spyders that much, in fact, I'd take a Piranha over just about any other gun besides a mag, but soooo many people use those type of guns. I know I wouldnt mind having one as a backup.

Alot of other guns are nice, I'd love to have a Matrix, or Intimidator, but I love what I have right now. I don't care if you talk *POOF* about mags, cuz most of the people who do at the fields I play at, end up getting shot out by me, or someone else.

Oh, I saw a guy 2 seasons ago playing with his Angel, and it chopped every ball that rolled into the feed tube. I don't know what that was, but ever since then, I've stayed away from them.

[AGD]

EVERYBODY CALM DOWN! Jeezzz, lets just have a discussion about the new gun ok? I want to know how the ACE works, is it reflective and where is it?

AGD

[Kaiser Bob]

From what I know of it, the ACE is like COPS on the IR3 in that it detects the ball by weight, however the Speed can detect the weight of the ball stack and adjust ROF setting to compensate for slow feeding or what have you.

[dansim]

Originally posted by Havoc_online
everything rips nowadays.

call me when you get a vid of it doing 30:rolleyes:.

I'm curious, will it pinch paint?(they boasted about a lower bolt speed, etc. (yet they can shoot FASTER!?)):confused:

WDP's motto should be "Sell your old Angel, buy our new Angel". or "As if we didnt have the best marker(by far) in the world already - we figure out how to make it better every few months so keep sending us your money!!!"
maybe even "Believe what we tell you to believe, please?"


hmmm kinda like agd......companies need to make money man, its bussiness

[Doc Nickel]

Originally posted by AGD
EVERYBODY CALM DOWN! Jeezzz, lets just have a discussion about the new gun ok? I want to know how the ACE works, is it reflective and where is it?

AGD

It's not an "eye", per se, it's a piezo sensor.

There's a mounted crystal down in the top of the grip frame, and it has this plastic rod that extends up and very slightly into the breech of the gun. When the ball seats in the breech, it comes into contact with this rod, and the frequency at which the piezo crystal vibrates (something like 50K Hz) changes slightly, akin to putting a finger on the tine of a humming tuning fork, a value the controller detects and interprets as the presence of a ball.

It's quite clever, and avoids the whole problem of shell color when considering reflective-type IR eyes such as those used in the X 'Mags. It hasn't been without it's teething problems though, they're currently on the third revision of the software. They also had early learning problems, as the tip of the rod would get shaved off if an aftermarket bolt didn't have a small clearance groove.

Doc.

[JAM]

For what it's worth, i don't get it... why do people feel the need to crap on other guns? angels, timmies, cockers, impulses, etc etc. all good. an XMag is better in some ways than all of them, and they are better than an XMag in others, who cares? does it shoot? does it allow you to shoot as fast as you can move your fingers? do you like it? than more power to you and quit the whining. damn. Too early for all this.

[Cliffio]

jam, i know what your saying because i usually say it too, but unfortunatly that kinda of rational will only get brushed aside. because everyones gun is better for some reason, and people have to let it be known, but, thats how it goes i guess.

[Dubstar112]

Originally posted by Cliffio
jam, i know what your saying because i usually say it too, but unfortunatly that kinda of rational will only get brushed aside. because everyones gun is better for some reason, and people have to let it be known, but, thats how it goes i guess.

True true...

It is however really nice to see a new version of an Angel that has a price so that the people who really could use it to thier advantage, can have it.

[ShooterJM]

Originally posted by Doc Nickel
It's not an "eye", per se, it's a piezo sensor.

There's a mounted crystal down in the top of the grip frame, and it has this plastic rod that extends up and very slightly into the breech of the gun. When the ball seats in the breech, it comes into contact with this rod, and the frequency at which the piezo crystal vibrates (something like 50K Hz) changes slightly, akin to putting a finger on the tine of a humming tuning fork, a value the controller detects and interprets as the presence of a ball.

It's quite clever, and avoids the whole problem of shell color when considering reflective-type IR eyes such as those used in the X 'Mags. It hasn't been without it's teething problems though, they're currently on the third revision of the software. They also had early learning problems, as the tip of the rod would get shaved off if an aftermarket bolt didn't have a small clearance groove.
Doc.

Very cool. So is the clearance issue taken care of or do aftermarket bolts have to milled slightly? Also is there a sensitivity adjustment on the sensor? If there's a breech break and shell gets on the rod will it distinguish it as false reading or call it a ball in the breech?

[JAM]

Originally posted by Cliffio
jam, i know what your saying because i usually say it too, but unfortunatly that kinda of rational will only get brushed aside. because everyones gun is better for some reason, and people have to let it be known, but, thats how it goes i guess.

oh, OK, well if that's the case, than my XMag owns all other guns!

;)

[JAM]

Originally posted by Dubstar112


True true...

It is however really nice to see a new version of an Angel that has a price so that the people who really could use it to thier advantage, can have it.

Amen, props to WDP for being able to bring this technology down a little in price point. It really helps us all, more things become affordable, more people will play, more money in the sport- more innovation, more products. Good and bad products of course, but in general, it's good. for what it's worth, I like angels plenty, if I could afford more than one highend gun, I'd probably have one.

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by JAM
For what it's worth, i don't get it... why do people feel the need to crap on other guns? angels, timmies, cockers, impulses, etc etc. all good. an XMag is better in some ways than all of them, and they are better than an XMag in others, who cares? does it shoot? does it allow you to shoot as fast as you can move your fingers? do you like it? than more power to you and quit the whining. damn. Too early for all this.

Amen brudah! http://www.automags.org/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

However, I don't think that's the case in this thread.

Way back in the begining of this thread, Havoc gave Angel crap, not on their GUN, but on their CLAIMS.

At AO, it seems as though there's great skepticism when unproven, boastfull, hard-to-believe claims are made as any part of a product's reputation or marketing hype (see WAS).

All we ask, when something does not seem logical or possible, is to PROVE IT. That's all. Until then, we'll have our doubts and challenge UNPROVEN myths and marketing hype.

[Miscue]

AO: Paintball nihilism at its best.

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke


Amen brudah! http://www.automags.org/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

However, I don't think that's the case in this thread.

Way back in the begining of this thread, Havoc gave Angel crap, not on their GUN, but on their CLAIMS.

At AO, it seems as though there's great skepticism when unproven, boastfull, hard-to-believe claims are made as any part of a product's reputation or marketing hype (see WAS).

All we ask, when something does not seem logical or possible, is to PROVE IT. That's all. Until then, we'll have our doubts and challenge UNPROVEN myths and marketing hype.

Actually,
in the third post.Havoc started flaming WDP.The only posts to that point was 1 person who shot it and gave thier impression(how can you argue with that)and another that thought simplifying the functions was a good idea.

P.S.
My gun is better than yours,and no I won't tell you which one it is.:D

Jay.

[Mango]

Ohh I want one! I would buy an X-mag with my first paycheck but I think I'll get this since it will probably be more easily availible.

[Miscue]

Damn dude. Don't you learn?! :D

[Brian68mag]

I am looking into a angel speed as a replacement for my emag. My emags reliability with lvl 10 has just made me lose faith in my emag. I am not willing to spend the time to replace orings and carriers every day i want to play just to have a marker who's first shot in a string takes 2 pulls no matter what(The carrier leaks a bit, one size bigger and it wont fire at all), or have the effects of level 10 canceled out by using a smaller spring/carrier so it fires each time but chops bad and is still fairly unreliable. Maybe i just got a bad kit or bad luck, i installed a kit on my freinds RT and it works perfectly. I love my 68 automag though.

I want to keep my emag, but no purpose in having a gun that doesnt work properly.
Angels are great guns, and WDP is a great company with great products. Who cares if they beef up there marketing a little bit, flashy things with big claims sell, and isnt that the purpose of running a business, to make money? It just so happens they make a product that most people love and consider the #1 tourney marker. Ive shot Lcd's and Ir3's and love them, are they fast? hell yes, just as fast as my emag, and a lot lighter. I love mags, and angels and i hate people that diss on eathier one with empty claims.
Use which ones suits you, be it emag, timmy, impulse, cocker, angel or spyder and give up this "Your marker sucks" crap, honestly whats the purpose of it?

Anyway, back on topic, the speed looks like a great marker. If its anything like the Ir3 it will be a good seller because of the price(900 i heard?). Looks like WDP may have another winner here.

[GT]

Originally posted by Havoc_online
I just dont like the people who run the company. and YES they try and control the market, but it would be bad form to say how(even at the risk of looking wrong, but if/when we meet someday Cliff, remind me and I'll tell you:))


:rolleyes: for 1k not only are you getting a great marker but a company that is willing to put some big dollars in the sport to produce positive change. Read Ged Greens article on warpig. Lets talk about the guns here. I really dont care WTF a company does as long as I get good custmer service. DO we grill Tom on what he does when he leaves work? You guys are worse than the old women at church!

One of the many reasons I buy WDP is because whenever I see a comparo of one electro to another it awlays starts out as how good or bad it is compared to an Angel. I am sorry but WDP made a standard by which all others are judged. They built a standard. That is something that isnt easly achieved. On a similar note compare an IR3 that you can get around 1k and an Xmag that will run you close to 1400. Opps maybe I shouldnt go there, start another thread maybe.

SIDE Note: I dont understand all of the shopping problems that the paintball world is infatuated with. I dont know how many non-LVL X mags I have owned. They very very rarely break paint. Honestly I think COPS, ACE, LVLX are useless and unneeded on a gun that has a good loader and a nice set of batteries.

BTW: My old eclipse angel Pinched 3 balls in a row durring one game, my 12v batts were really low. Sorry guys the angel is a great marker not matter which one you buy.

Jason

[freek133]

Alright! Thats it!

I have read this whole thing and not once was the Matrix mentioned in this thread! C'mon, show some compassion!:p

EDIT: Granted it was in a quote... but thats not good enough!

[logamus]

i have read this whole thread and i now have tired head and hate all guns. ;)

[arowmic]

Same here man. Pretty much all markers fall into the "BLEH" category.

[GT]

no reply yet?

jb

[freek133]

Sorry Gtrsi, though it was good read... I dont think anyone is paying much attention to this thread anymore.