Hacking the E-mag?

[jeffremiller]

I just bought an E-mag and the Linux Geek in me just can't stand to wait...

Has anyone started hacking the E-mag? I see the 14 PIN socket on the board (for a PBASIC Stamp?) Does anyone have board specifics, such as Flash size, programming interface, etc,etc)

A couple of ideas that have already crossed my mind:

ambient emperature sensor / display on LED
shot count alarm speaker or vibration?
game timer alarm speaker or vibration?
Battery level indicator on LED

I guess you can see where I'm going ith this... Just something to play with.

Is there a group developing this type of "non-essential" creature comforts?

I'd love to help.

J_

[Bartman]

Yea, we have a flash programer, jsut waiting for my last tourney in august. Then I plan to strip out the burst modes, and make teh gun semi only.

with the extra space in the flash, I want to add a anticop eye, using the post for burst mode as a conectore for teh eye.

Keep posting here, and as we get closer to ripping the chip out, we can both get together and talk.

Bartman
team I have no Idea
www.ihni.org (http://www.ihni.org)

[jeffremiller]

A second board would be the ultimate but I'd settle for the tech specification and programming info on the one I have. I've started researching the Paralax PBASIC stamp and I see mega potential in it. Most of it is just "giggle" features such as the termometer and humidity but the game/ammo alarm I saw mentioned in a review as a possible enhancement. If AGD is reading this, let me see the code and play with it for awhile.

I'll sign non-disclosures, etc. I just want to see this platform exploited to it's fullest!

J_

[Bartman]

Well, I have almost finished the drawing for my new body. after I turn that, I will be ready to figure out 2 things, one the ACE(or something similar) and how I am going to add it to the board. I am hopping like heck this will help stop my chopping problems.

I have a friend going to get to work on the chip soon, to see if we can get into it, and change it to serve my purposes better.

Any ways, I hope this doesn't get closed so we can keep exchanging Info about the Hack.

Bartman
team I have no Idea
www.ihni.org (http://www.ihni.org)

[jeffremiller]

If you look inside the grip there is a vertical row of 14 sockets for a stamp... looks like this will fit.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F010%5F017%5F001%5F000&product%5Fid=900%2D3272

That way, you should have to actually hack the existing flash load or the board much. This stamp has access to the I/O lines on the board and can run independent programs.

I guess it depends on what you want to do to the thing.

J_

[jeffremiller]

OK... I'm going to test this pinout tonight and see if voltage is present on the corect pins. If so, I think this is what I need. Sorting out the I/O lines is going to be a pain. Perhaps someone with AGD would be kind enough to post the pin-outs?


<table BORDER WIDTH="100%" NOSAVE >
<tr>
<td>Pin</td>

<td>Name</td>

<td>Description</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td>1</td>

<td>VIN</td>

<td>Unregulated power in: accepts 5.5 - 15 VDC (6-40 VDC on BS1-IC
rev. b), which is then internally regulated to 5 volts. May be left unconnected
if 5 volts is applied to the VDD (+5V) pin.

</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td>2</td>

<td>VSS</td>

<td> System ground: connects to PC parallel port pin 25 (GND) for

programming.</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td>3</td>

<td>PCO</td>

<td>PC Out: connects to PC parallel port pin 11 (BUSY) for

programming.</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td>4</td>

<td>PCI</td>

<td>PC In: connects to PC parallel port pin 2 (D0) for programming.</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td>5</td>

<td>VDD</td>

<td>5-volt DC input/output: (Also called +5V) if an unregulated voltage
is applied to the VIN pin, then this pin will output 5 volts. If
no voltage is applied to the VIN pin, then a regulated voltage between
4.5V and 5.5V should be applied to this pin.</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td>6</td>

<td>RES</td>

<td>Approximately 4.2 volts, causing the BASIC Stamp to reset. Can
be driven low to force a reset. This pin is internally pulled high
and may be left disconnected if not needed. Do not drive high.</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td>7-14</td>

<td>P0-P7</td>

<td>General-purpose I/O pins: each can sink 25 mA and source 20mA. However,
the total of all pins should not exceed 50 mA (sink) and 40 mA (source).</td>
</tr>
</table>



[This message has been edited by jeffremiller (edited 07-03-2001).]

[RobAGD]

Well as I recall the current board dont really support the BASIC stamps. There was a memory issue that intern left the code out to use it.

Support for the BASIC chip will go away on the next set of boards to be made.

-Robert

[AGD]

Guys,

Yes the pinouts were for the Basic Stamp but we put that on hold when it became apparent that the industry was going away from programable chips. Anti chop eye software is under development now and not worth you spending time on. At any rate the memory in the chip is almost full so you dont have much room to play with anyway.

AGD

[jeffremiller]

But I still have this burning desire to hack the code. I don't want F/A I don't really even need an ACE. I want other features!

Features that AGD probably wouldn't consider such as temperature, humidity, alarm and vibration for the shot counter and timer, possibly a bootup sound, programmable LED messages for team name or my name or something.

I know I've read that the alarm was being considered as well as a battery level indicator but It's not the same as doing it yourself.

Please, would AGD consider showing a few of us the code used? I called but the guy I talked to recommended that this is the place to post such questions. Any experimental load images, etc?

J_

[RobAGD]

There are no codes to hack, it's not an angel with codes liek NICKLES08 SILVER11 blah blah blah

There is no FA in the guns, the code ( meaning the program that allowed it ) was removes.

ROF might be tweakable as thats just a user set varable with a max setting limit.

-Robert

[donggie]

Originally posted by RobAGD
There are no codes to hack, it's not an angel with codes liek NICKLES08 SILVER11 blah blah blah

There is no FA in the guns, the code ( meaning the program that allowed it ) was removes.

ROF might be tweakable as thats just a user set varable with a max setting limit.

-Robert


Has anyone figured out how to "tweak the ROF?

If so, How?

Don

[Have Blue]

Well, I just ordered an AVR programmer and a BASIC stamp - after talking with Jeff at tech training this past weekend, I'm going to take a stab at porting the Warlord code over to the E-Mag.

While not truly hacking the board, would anyone be interested in replacing their E-Mag's red display with a nifty green unit? I'd like to gauge the demand to see if it's worth ordering a bunch...

[donggie]

What's the cost? Hard Install?

Anyone figure out how to at least remove the limiters on the board?

Don

[RobAGD]

Actually I want a nifty Blue LED :)

-Robert

[Sledgehammer]

I'd <b>LOVE</b> a green LED

[Have Blue]

Blue LEDs not available, sorry... The choices are green, yellow or orange. Cost would probably be $40, installation is a snap (pop out the old one, plug in the new one).

[Have Blue]

Well, even though the response seems minimal, I may go ahead and order a batch of the green displays.

In other news, I've successfully downloaded the v1.35 code from an E-Mag board - many thanks to jeffremiller for his assistance :-) Now to see about porting my Warlord code for the Tribal over to the E-Mag...

I used a Kanda ISP programmer (not the USB programmer that AGD uses, though - I'm way too cheap for that) to do this, though I'm sure other makes of ISP programmers can do just as well. If you have an ISP programmer, here's the pinouts on the E-Mag board that are of interest:

http://airsoldier.com/~haveblue/tech/e-mag/emagisp.jpg

I'm rather surprised that AGD went with this particular processor to interface with a display (that doesn't have an internal character set) _and_ with the original intent to interface with a Basic stamp - there just isn't a lot of codespace left in v1.35 - only about 78 bytes (and note that the AVR uses 16-bit long instructions, so 2 bytes per instruction!). Anybody know if AGD will continue to use this microcontroller for future versions of the board? I think that the code could be compacted down a little bit - there's around 104 bytes beginning around 0x48 that look like a table of data. However, only the low (or it the high?) byte is used - with a little extra work to utilize the other byte (or maybe moving some of the data to unused space in the EEPROM), you could probably squeeze 40-50 bytes more space out of the program.

The EEPROM is fun to play with, too - I've rolled the shot counter back to 0 on this board somehow. Haven't quite figured out the shot storage yet, but 0x04 appears to be the LSB of the shot count.

I'd post a link to the .hex file that I sucked off the board as well as the disassembled code, but I'd first like to know if Tom would sue and/or castrate me for doing so...

[donggie]

Great NEWS!!!! the developments... not the sueing and castration. Would like to get a hold of that code if it's possible since I'm trying to work out something similar. Granted I do not have the tech knowledge to do it myself, I am currently working with someone who apparently won't even touch it without that code. Anyway, any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Don

[Potatoboy]

I wouldn't distribute that source or the Hex if i were you. The Emag software is under copyright and it is not open source. Technically, even the dumping of the board that you have done is in violation of the DMCA. Not that I support the DMCA or don't approve of what you're doing, but I'd be real careful if I were you. No matter how cool the company is, they usually don't like people infringing on their Intellectual Property.

[jeffremiller]

Probably a good point Potatoboy.... better keep even the hex code private.

Showing how to pull the code shouldn't violate anything...but the actual act of doing it is definitely debatable.

As far as the DMCA... well... don't get me started.

But since you did bring it up... anyone else have a DeCSS T-shirt?

J_

[Have Blue]

Actually, I don't believe that dumping the board would be in violation of the DMCA. However, posting the description of how I did it along with the picture could concievably be in violation IF there were, as the law states, a 'technological measure that effectively controls access to a work' in place. But in this case, there is no measure in place that controls access - the code is there for anyone with an AVR ISP programmer. v1.37 is a different matter, as it is read protected. But then again, I'm not a lawyer.

At any rate, I won't post the .hex or disassembled code until AGD either grants or denies permission.

[Have Blue]

Oh, one other thing I should note... When I dumped the code, I had the E-Mag board power off and removed the LED display (so as not to cause excessive current drain). The E-Mag board was thus being powered by the ISP programmer. However, it is possible to have the target (E-Mag) board powered separately according to Atmel's ISP datasheet.

[Have Blue]

Well, now this is interesting... Tom said at tech training that the output pulse to the solenoid is 40ms long. However, I just scoped the output on a v1.37 board and it's only 30ms. Did the pulse duration get changed at some point, Tom?

[Kevmaster]

maybe this is just my non electrical mind speaking, but wouldnt a "Morlock" board from Kenshaw Mountain Markers be an easier upgrade? youd lose the LED, but you would gain a ACE and many firing modes. that is...assuming it would fit in there...but the little booger is pretty small
here is KMM's site: http://exarin.com/

i know i saw a pic SOMEWHERE of the board being someting like the size of two pennies. its pretty damn tenie

[donggie]

I'm already talking with them.


don

[Have Blue]

Sure, it would be easier, but I want to have my own hardware or software. I should be able to cram one of my Warlords into the E-Mag frame as it is, but I'd like to hack on the stock board some to gain familiarity with the Atmel, and possibly develop a software upgrade.

[donggie]

Have Blue,

That's a good idea. Please keep us informed of any developments or assistance we might provide.

Don

[Have Blue]

More hacking results....

The alpha characters stored (and thus able to be displayed) are: ABCDEGHLMOPRST (if you try displaying a character not in the set, a colon is displayed). You can thus modify the startup 'AGD x.xx' message to anything using those characters....

http://www.airsoldier.com/~haveblue/helloao.jpg

[donggie]

Nice... hows the carry over of the warlord program going?

Don

[Have Blue]

Porting over the Warlord code is slow going. I have a fantastic compiler for PIC development, but nothing for working with AVR micros. Been playing with GCC-AVR, though, and it may suit my needs (the price is right, anyway).

[AGD]

Humm, well I see the gremlins have creeped into the code and are ready to make my life complicated.

Have Blue, if the code gets out everyone will be messing with it and the first thing they will do is shorten the solenoid on time to greatly extend their battery life. We do 30 ms (we must have changed it somewhere down the line) the hyperframe does 6 ms. If you do that you will chew up bolts, I have to replace them for free, the gun gets a bad rep, I ***** about the code changes, guys say mine is working fine your programers suck, we refuse to warrantee, EVERYONE is pissed off.

The industry is right on the edge of making ALL electronic guns NON PROGRAMABLE because of hacked code. In fact they all agreed to start doing it Jan 1 but WDP is having second thoughts. Non programable guns means every time you want to update your software you have to buy another WHOLE BOARD. Good for me I make more money, bad for you but that's because cheaters affect everyone.

Have Blue, if you really want to do this why don't we put you officially on the AGD software development team. You can cook up cool stuff and we can distribute it as AGD certified software. You can't do crazy full auto and the like. We can trade development time for product etc.

The next batch of boards will have the new chip with more memory. If the no programing comes through it might not be necessary. If WDP sues over patent infringement there might not be any displays what so ever.

Where the heck did you find colored displays? WE WANT "EM!

AGD

ps any news on the camera?

[jeffremiller]

This is actually the type of dialogs I had hoped to spark. I'd love to see cool features and such added to the Emag.

Hopefully there will be some way for me to help as well. My programming is on it's way and I'm looking at mostly cosmetic changes and such.

Even if WDP sues over displays, will they sue everyone? I see way to many custom mods out there with displays. The DV8, and others.

Also, if the industry goes to non-programmable devices, it seems like that opens the market to third party people to make things like the walord available for the Emag. If AGD were to develop a "AGD certified Software Partner program, you could insure that the mods wouldn't destroy your hardware and you could then void the warranties on any guns equipped with non-certified software loads or boards.

I'm just trying to find some common ground here between what I as a owner would like and the needs and constrains of AGD.

J_

[jeffremiller]

That's my feeling exactly Muzikman. Don't screw it up but add some coolness.

That's why the BASIC stamps were the perfect approach. First thing that a tech could tell the customer is to remove the stamp...thus eliminating the prospect of inteference. That coupled with some form of AGD software certification program to protect against errant dwell timing should address most issues.

As far as the blue displays.... I'm trying to locate a vendor. Haven't found one yet but there has to be someone making them :)

J_

[Sledgehammer]

Blue LEDs are expensive, that's probably why noone makes displays of them...
How about a display using clear LEDs? AGD could put filters in all different colors in front of one of them...

[Have Blue]

All right, I'll refrain from posting the code, then. Sorry to those who wanted to see it, but Tom's points are entirely valid.

And don't get me started on the industry trying to get rid of programmable boards - it won't make cheating go away, and is just a poor idea in general. Cheaters will just desolder OTP chips and resolder their own 'tweaked' chips. What do you do when you discover a bug in program 2.73, and you have 1000 2.73 boards on the shelf with OTP micros? Flash micros are beautiful, as they allow the manufacturer to keep a pile of boards on the shelf and then program them right before shipping. That way guns always ship with the latest program, and the manufacturer doesn't get socked with unusable inventory when they update their software. Plus, I would think that flash upgrades would be a good thing for tourneys - to ensure that nobody is using ceater chips, officials could flash everyone's gun with an approved semi-only program before the event. I'll stop here, as I could rant all day on the subject...

But anyhow, I'd be delighted to help out with the official code, and I'd love to see the hardware specs for the new boards. I hope that at some point the Basic Stamp (or other such system) can be added back in, as it really is the best way to allow for end-user customization while still ensuring that the gun's basic operation will not be compromised. Drop me a line, as I'd be interested in knowing more about what's used as a development environment for the E-Mag (some sort of C compiler I would presume, unless someone really loves assembly).

Blue LED displays just aren't available - you've got yellow, orange, green and 2 shades of red to choose from. Tom, I'll mail you with a few sources for them.

As for the camera, it's certainly available. The trick is just arranging to take a day off of work to bring it down - I'll see if I can possibly do it next week, as my schedule should be freed up a hair then. I'll see if I can send you a copy of the manual beforehand - it's pretty short and covers some of the features that you may find useful such as the trigger inputs (you can hook up a contact closure or TTL level signal to act as a trigger).

[Have Blue]

The DV8 displays... Defiance hasn't said where he gets them from, as I know he scoured for quite a while to find them. However, I may have found a match for them - still need to investigate further, though.

By a white LCD, do you mean the use of a white backlight?

Yes, blue, violet or white LED displays would be cool, but you have to keep in mind that these colors are relatively recent developments, and they still suck a lot of power. Heck, the stock E-Mag display has a power dissipation of up to 2.4 watts using high efficiency red LEDs! Additionally, a blue LED display would be extremely expensive with current process technology.

[Sledgehammer]

I got a question (I don't have my Emag <b>yet</b>):
Is the LED display a one piece unit or is it actually two 4-digit displays?

[jeffremiller]

It's a single unit.

J_

[Sledgehammer]

Thanks.

Too bad, I could have gotten 4-digit units for pretty cheap... Oh well

[Have Blue]

Nothing new to report, though I'll see if I can post the pinouts for the Atmal micro later on tonight. I wasn't able to make it to the shop, so checking on the buttons will have to wait 'til Wednesday.

[AGD]

Guys,

I haven't forgotten about this but we are swamped with new product stuff. I am monitoring the post though.

AGD

[Have Blue]

<TABLE BORDER=1>

<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>E-Mag reverse engineering</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>Atmel AT90S2313-4SC</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>Pin</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>Name</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>Connection</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=RIGHT SDVAL="1" SDNUM="1033;">1</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>RESET</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>CN4 pin 1</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=RIGHT SDVAL="2" SDNUM="1033;">2</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>(RXD) PD0</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>Stamp pin 7</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=RIGHT SDVAL="3" SDNUM="1033;">3</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>(TXD) PD1</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>Stamp pin 8</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=RIGHT SDVAL="4" SDNUM="1033;">4</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>XTAL2</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=RIGHT SDVAL="5" SDNUM="1033;">5</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>XTAL1</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=RIGHT SDVAL="6" SDNUM="1033;">6</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>(INT0) PD2</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>Trigger input; stamp pin 9</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=RIGHT SDVAL="7" SDNUM="1033;">7</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>(INT1) PD3</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>To MOSFET U3 (solenoid)</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=RIGHT SDVAL="8" SDNUM="1033;">8</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>(T0) PD4</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>Switch PB2, stamp pin 10</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=RIGHT SDVAL="9" SDNUM="1033;">9</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>(T1) PD5</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>Switch PB1, stamp pin 11</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=RIGHT SDVAL="10" SDNUM="1033;">10</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>GND</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=RIGHT SDVAL="11" SDNUM="1033;">11</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>PD6 (ICP)</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>HCMS CE</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=RIGHT SDVAL="12" SDNUM="1033;">12</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>PB0 (AIN0)</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=RIGHT SDVAL="13" SDNUM="1033;">13</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>PB1 (AIN1)</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=RIGHT SDVAL="14" SDNUM="1033;">14</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>PB2</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>HCMS clock</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=RIGHT SDVAL="15" SDNUM="1033;">15</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>PB3 (OC1)</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>HCMS data in</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=RIGHT SDVAL="16" SDNUM="1033;">16</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>PB4</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>HCMS RS</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=RIGHT SDVAL="17" SDNUM="1033;">17</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>PB5 (MOSI)</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>CN4 pin 4</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=RIGHT SDVAL="18" SDNUM="1033;">18</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>PB6 (MISO)</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>CN4 pin 3</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=RIGHT SDVAL="19" SDNUM="1033;">19</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>PB7 (SCK)</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>CN4 pin 2 (burst jumper)</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=RIGHT SDVAL="20" SDNUM="1033;">20</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>Vcc</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>CN4 pin 1</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>RESET</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>CN4 pin 2</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>SCK</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>CN4 pin 3</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>MISO</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>CN4 pin 4</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>MOSI</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>CN4 pin 5</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>GND</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>CN2 pin 1</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>CN2 pin 2</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>CN2 pin 3</TD>
<TD WIDTH=86 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT>Vcc</TD>
<TD WIDTH=186 HEIGHT=17 ALIGN=LEFT><BR></TD>
</TR>

</TABLE>



Apologies for the really long blank space at the top - I have no idea as to why the board is doing that....

Also, I didn't trace them through, but pin 12 or 13 would have to be the input for the battery voltage (to determine when a low battery condition exists).

[jeffremiller]

Thanks....

I see the buttons are also run to the stamp... Canyou tell the pinout of the stamp in relation to the board and micro?

J_

[Have Blue]

Um, how do you mean? You did have that chart of the stamp pinouts back on page 1...

[Have Blue]

Oh, and I have green displays on the way. They're backordered and about 4 weeks out, but at least they're coming....

[Have Blue]

Allrighty, I managed to track down the SMT switches used for the pushbuttons...

C&K KN01P3DSAQ, Digi-Key part # CKN1265CT-ND

Will oredr a few next time I get goodies from Digi-Key.

[Sledgehammer]

How much are the green Displays?

[Have Blue]

I'll be selling the green displays for $40 shipped.

[jeffremiller]

Hey Tom... or any moderator.... How about cleaning up this thread? Just leaving the tech info....

Also, HaveBlue, In regards to eyes... how close to the ball and or center of the ball does the eye need to be? I'm about to start drilling :the face of the PF plug. :)

Also, working on a power harness for Warp/Hopper to interface with the emag battery. and building an interlink plug into it as well. That way, my loading system and marker will be nice and neat when the two are separated with the NW QD I bought.

Pretty slick system, breaks down into air, loading and marker very quickly and cleanly.

Also, Tom...if you read this... Do you still want some help with Unix? or your phones?

J_

[Have Blue]

What I do with the photoeyes is use a current limiting resistor on the emitter side of the eye. I then adjust the sensitivity (and thus sensing distance) by changing the value of the resistor hooked up to the detector side of the eye (just like Tom's eye setup, though I use a fixed resistor rather than a potentiometer). I'll look up what values I used when I get home.

So I'd say just mount the eye in the PF plug however you like - this will probably take a bit of trial and error (and a few PF plugs) to get right.

[jeffremiller]

Hey, HaveBlue.... did you get a chance to look up the resistor value for the eye? I'm almost ready to mount the eye but I'm considering where to put the pot (or resistor) I like the idea of adjustability.

How much reprogramming would it tke to get this to work? Since it is looking at the second ball in the stack...will that make a difference?

J_

[AGD]

Hi Guys,

I am monitoring this thread. We are trying to get through end of year stuff right now. PF Plug eye sounds like its going to work well. Post some pics.

AGD

[Have Blue]

Green displays arrived today! Will have them up on my site later tonight, hopefully.

http://www.matrixpm.com/~haveblue/greenemag1.jpg
http://www.matrixpm.com/~haveblue/greenemag2.jpg
The second photo is a better representation of the actual color of the unit (as shown in the reflection on the right side of the picture)

Jeff - I have scrawled away somewhere that I'm using a 560 ohm resistor to limit current to the photoeye. I believe I'm using a 120 or 150 kohm resistor on the detector side - note that using a larger value resistor will increase the sensitivity of the eye.

Tom, I haven't forgotten about bringing by the camera - will be able to as soon as I get my winter car. I keep bugging my boss aboout finding the manual for the unit, but he seems to have misplaced it somewhere in his basement (where he had been using it to analyze his golf swing :-)

[BlackVCG]

Anything achieved with respect to the ACE in the PF plug?

[Have Blue]

Probably not - I still have to get a Warlord board out to jeffremiller for him to use (but I have to modify the beast first - hopefully one of this week's many many projects).

Regarding the pushbutton switches used on the board, I found that the KN01P3DSAQ is now discontinued. The direct replacement is ITT switch # KSS231G (available through Digi-Key as 401-1098-1-ND).

[Pand0ra]

Did some of you tried to use Rxd/Txd connections for extension purposes?
It could be quite easy to add a software implementation of an I2C bus. From there you could add any kind of sensors easily (Like the pressure in the tank, control the hopper/revo combo to keep a stack of balls in the revo, add a vibrer, etc... :). And with a bit more room in the memory it would be plug and play.

Just ideas I've got a few time ago, but it seems I'm not the only one to play with my mag on this forum.

And if you ask, no I've not (yet) play with the software of my Emag. I've a lot of experience with µC from the 8051 generation (softs of 15000+ lines of code in assembler), but nothing with the Atmel.

@++

[Have Blue]

Well, there simply isn't enough room for extension. Unless you start ripping out parts of the code, that is. How many people actually use the countdown timer? That would be the first thing I'd comment out of the code in order to add more features or complete the character set.

[headcase]

Yep, bye bye to the timer(and the associated menu that allows you to choose how long it counts down) and the burst modes should free up a decent amount of room.

[Pand0ra]

I wonder what they've put inside which takes so much place.
The software of an Emag should be quite simple.
Maybe it comes from the way the program is made. C is not the best way to make a small program.

@++

[Have Blue]

There's minimal bloat in the E-Mag programming - it's not written in C. True, the micro has 2k, but AVR instructions are a whopping 16 bits long! Thus, you've only got 1000 (okay, 1024) instructions max in the program. Also, the LED module does not have its own internal character set - everything has to be stored in the micro. So storing a complete alphanumeric character set wipes out a lot of code space!

Now knowing how the AVR is organized, AGD really crammed a whole lot into that micro.

[[M@g_D@ddy]]

whats the website for the green led displays?:D

[Have Blue]

Green LED displays right here: http://airsoldier.com (down the page about halfway - will hopefully have a dedicated 'E-Mag Parts' page up soon)

[[M@g_D@ddy]]

can u get different colored one's? like blue?
where do YOU order these from? like where does air soldier buy these from? :confused:

[Have Blue]

No, blue isn't available. There's orange, yellow, green and 2 shades of red.

[[M@g_D@ddy]]

man, blue is the best color, arg.
can u post pics of the orange ones the the two shades of red?
if one of the reds is like the stock led, u don't need to put it up.

[Have Blue]

I only have green in stock right now, as I felt it would be the most 'different'. You should be able to imagine yellow and orange pretty well :) (photographing the displays to properly reflect the true emitted color is quite tricky anyhow)

[[M@g_D@ddy]]

thanks anyway

[Kaiser Bob]

Have Blue, Im no expert on LED's but why are clear or white LED's hard to find? Ive seen them and I would think they shouldent be that hard to make

[Have Blue]

White LEDs are tough to find because a) they're a relatively new technology (red LEDs have been available since 1969 but white LEDs only came out around 5 years ago) and b) they're actually modified blue LEDs. White LEDs use a phosphor that glows white when activated by the light from the blue LED.

So they're becoming easier to make, but they're still expensive.

[Kaiser Bob]

so i guess it will be a while before a white LED display would be feasible....

[Have Blue]

Yes, it would be quite some time before even a blue display would be available.

[Exodus]

check this site for some parts such as pbasic chips optical eyes and displayes.

www.allelectronics.com

[Kaiser Bob]

Have Blue, the white LED's are blue LED's with a yellow phosphor layer in front right? so couldent you maybe take a yellow display use a window to get a blue/white looking display? Just an idea.

[Have Blue]

If it were that easy, it would have been done long ago.

The color of the phosphor itself isn't the issue - it's what color the phosphor will emit when activated and what wavelength is needed for excitation.

[314159]

it looks like www.newark.com has the displays, do a search for "led alphaneumeric"

i have just riecently obtained access to a emag, so it looks like i might be joining the fun teehehe.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

I'm read of a few recend developments concerning Blue LED's so i'm still holding out hope i may get one for my EMag someday...

[314159]

single blue led's are a couple bucks a pop,

8 characters composed of a 5x7 matrex of led's would be expensive as hell.

would you sell your soul for a blue led display? ;)

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Well..at the rate technology spins out of control i couldn't imagine it would stay that same price in say a year or two...

[314159]

and then again, there is always the price that people are welling to pay for led's. a couple cents for a red one, or a couple bucks for a pretty blue one..... oh so pretty.

/me blindly follows the blue led

yes master.

[personman]

I dont know much about emags or electronics, I was just wondering if you could program the emag to tell you how much juice is left in the battery.
It would be more helpful than a game timer, I think..

[jeffremiller]

Originally posted by 314159

would you sell your soul for a blue led display? ;)

I would have to think for awhile... if you held it under my nose.... probably.

J_

[DiRTyBuNNy]

purple would be pretty cool too...(I know that's even less possible than blue..but oh well..)

[mxracer33x]

Does anyone here know anything about the emagnum board? Im purchasing a gun with one installed and would like to know, pros/cons of one or anything else you know.

[Exodus]

http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/index-std.html

hehehe, i have the pretty blue one on the bottom.

[Have Blue]

As far as I know, the E-Magnum board is simply a KM2 Morlock board pre-configured for use with the E-Mag.

http://www.exarin.com/products/morlock.html

[jeffremiller]

These are interesting... have you interfaced them with the emag? Care to share?

J_



Originally posted by Exodus
http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/index-std.html

hehehe, i have the pretty blue one on the bottom.