Z-Grip WONT take anodizing!!!

[J Murder]

I have been anoding parts of my gun, but my z-grip refuses absorb the dye (rit dye) into the anodized layer. I know this because anodizing is still there and it is the same color as the aluminum but a little bit chalky colored. It appears as if the part is anodized when I take it out, but the color wipes right off!! And if I try to seal the ano in there with boiled water, the ano comes off in the water. Does anybody know what the problem is here (I was thinking it was that i'm not using true anodizing dye)?

Also, the z-grip was in the ano-tank for a little less than 2 hours per this formula:
(900/current drawn (5 amps in my case)) * surface area (square ft)

[J Murder]

what I have so far

[Smokee_2_7]

sounds like one of two things:
1. you over annoed the part.

2. your temperature was off (i.e got too high) during the anno process.

TWO HOURS???? I don't know how you are setting everything up, but we NEVER NEVER let a part go that long. . . the longest we EVER run a part is about 1 hr 20 minutes- - - and thats generally if it's to be black, or is bead blasted (more surface area)


I know the problem your experiencing first hand- - - Ive had a few come out the same way - - in all cases, one of the 2 things listed above seemed to be the cause.

Welcome to the wonderful world of annodizing- - It's not as easy as it looks. :)

Additionally, Vangogo can probably be of more assistance that I am-- he's alot better, and is THE man in charge of our anodizing operation.

Carl

[MantisMag]

is the z-grip aluminum? :confused:

[J Murder]

i have a 12 volt 12 amp charger and the z-grip was drawing 5 amps of current if that helps.

[J Murder]

Originally posted by Smokee_2_7
sounds like one of two things:
1. you over annoed the part.

2. your temperature was off (i.e got too high) during the anno process.



So, are you saying I over-ano'd the part, because I'm pretty sure 1 is the cause of 2 (the longer you ano, the higher the temp, right?)

P.S. I started at room temp and that was my first run that day.

[J Murder]

my setup:

[BajaBoy]

j, how did u get your parts so blue?? mine came out a dark blue/purple. Im using cadwell blue dye too. I tried ryt but it just didnt seam to stick (but i was using the powder mix. (even that was Really dark)


anyway Good job it looks really nice

[J Murder]

you probably just left your's in too long. You have to watch carefully because it will look like its doing nothing at all, then it will start to get dark very fast. Did you heat your dye to 140 degrees F?

This site helped me a lot with anodizing (it's really detailled), you should check it out : Anodizing (http://www.focuser.com/atm/anodize/anodize.html)


Also, does anybody know if sanding the aluminum to remove old ano is bad for new anodizing?:confused:

[magman007]

first off, you need your annodes(the foil, or is that the cathode? i cant ever remember)


they need to be in the water, and in a ring form around the tank. Then drop the part in the middle of it.

2nd MAKE YOUR MIXTURE COLD!!!!!

If you read my threads like i had told you to, i said to put your solution in the fridge over night, and make it cold. Also, if it starts to heat up a little(still below room temp.) Feel free to add a few ice cubes.


Cold solution is hey. Also, to match all of your parts, set them in your dye for a long time, and let them soak till they soak no more. How long have you been leaviong the parts in for?

[Smokee_2_7]

Yes, generally speaking, the longer you ano the part, the higher the temp will get- - - heat is a by-product of the reaction going on in the tank. You need to be able to control this, and maintain a CONSTANT temp. in your bath throughout the process.

proper temp. range for anno is between 68 and 78 degrees, with the optimum between 70 and 75.

If you dont have a thermometer in there, get one. Pretty much every time the temp has gotten above 75 in any of our runs, we wind up with the 'powder' thing you've described.

The current sounds right, i think - - - maybe a little high on the amps, but thats really not my department.

however, with that amount of juice, 2 hours is WAAAY too long. (unless your acid mix is waay too weak, but thats another problem in itself) Also, keep in mind that the process speeds up very fast as the temperature increases. It goes alot faster at 75 than it does at 68.

You need to be able to keep the bath at a constant temp throughout the entire run- - as best you can. Look into installing a chiller coil of some type into the anno tank (titanium tubing works fine- - pump cool water throug it to keep the anno bath temp constant.


Magman 007, good start on the color matching, but it gets alot more tricky than that. Leaving all parts in color for the same time (until no more dye goes in the pores) works more in theory than it does in practice. The final shade of the peice has to do with several factors: The thickness of the anodize layer on the surface of the part- - a thinner layer=lighter color. thicker=darker. So, it's important that each part have pretty much the exact amount of anno on it. This is ensured by several things also- - -identical conditions for each part- -- same temp in the ano bath for ALL parts, same time in the bath. same amount of juice (to put it lightly)

Dye has to be the exact same temp for all peices for this method of matching to work, also.

There's a million little factors that can contribute to the above messing up, not to mention the other things that need to be perfect for a professional looking job.

Finally, you can sand an old anno coat off- - - but that may make the rest of your prep work harder. If you're going for a polished finish, you will have to work at it longer to remove the scratches you put all over the peice from sandpaper (depending on what grit you're using.)

I highly reccomend a chemical stripper of some type to remove the old anno from the part. Drano will work in a pinch.

BajaBoy,

there's a million different shades of 'blue' you can get from the "same" shade of blue dye. All that stuff i mentioned above will change the color shades- - - temp, anno time, finishing process used on the peice pre-ano, ect.


MantisMag,

Yes, the z-grip is aluminum. It's annod a with a really thick layer of black (*matte finish) from AGD. It's a royal pain to get that thing up to a mirror shine. ..lol. here's some pics of Z-grips we have anodized:

first, Ryknow's. . we did this for him back in febuary.
http://www.automags.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=656401

and finally, mine. Finished this one up about 3 weeks ago, if i rememeber correctly.
(well, crap. I'll have to put this pic up later,.. .seems our website is down right now. . . I'll edit the post and include the pic as soon as our site is back up.)





Carl

[VanGogo]

Here ya go Doc
http://www.xpb.us/images/bbzr.jpg
And stop giving away all the trade secrets, lol.

[Ryknow]

HAH! Smokee beat me to it, and VanGogo beat me to the other one.. you guys suck! :p both of the z's I have seen get annod worked fine, and I think ChucktheMAGician's is being annod right now.

[ChucktheMAGician]

Originally posted by Ryknow
I think ChucktheMAGician's is being annod right now.
Yep, there doing quite a bit for me actually, stay tuned for more details and pics! It is also reassuring to see that the people that you've trusted your parts w/ have so much knowledge about what they're doing.:cool:

[magman007]

Smokee, i will tell you, that for home anno, and a non professional job(you know your not going to do this when you go into home ano any ways) that my dying technique is your best bet to get everything you want to match... well to match.


Trust me, my e-mag(except for the gripframe, which is a different form of aluminum) matched perfectly.

Also, for all intensive pourpouses, the temp is not as important when your doing home anno, just dont let it get over room temperature, or it wont do a damn thing. For doing 2 to 3 parts, each for about an hour and a half, letting your anno sit at night in the fridge, works wonders.


I do appreciate you comming in here, and giving us the aspect of the professional anno, but i am one of the olny people who actually home annoed any thing here on ao.

So i take pride in that!


For all hime anno pourposes, this person cant go out and purchase titanium tubing to cool his rubbermaid tub.

[J Murder]

so then what's the best way to keep a constant temp (don't get crazy)? Do you think that coil thing would be sensible(if so, where can I get one)? I was just thinking I could use a bigger bucket with ice in it and put my ano tank in that. Any better ideas?

[Phil]

You could set your tub into a slightly larger tub and pour ice in between the two...