"Mags for F*gs?" No way!

[Dan_Gleesac]

This past Friday i went to a place to play paintball, nothing abnormal about that. This kid, who was probably about 10 years old, was having problems with his mag barrel (he was a nub and couldnt get it in). So i see him walk back and hes crying. Apparently the guy at the register told him that a mag was a pus*y gun and that he wouldnt help the kid. (the kid also needed help with the chrono)

After i heard this i was about to take my tank and slap him around with it a little bit... what would you have done?

[Army]

I deleted the rest of this thread as per request. It turned from a statement of an apparant poor judgement by a field owner, to something akin to a lynch mob.

Do NOT send nasty Email to Rooster, do NOT send nasty Email to the field, do NOT slam the field, owner, teams, or players in any other forum or site.

This as been an excercise in foolishness, and you are all to blame for it ending this way.

[Thordic]

I never thought honest criticism of business practices would be censored on AO.

I'm very dissapointed.

From now on I guess we are only allowed to say things that make people happy instead of speaking the truth.

[shartley]

Who’s request, might I ask? It is one thing locking a thread to prevent it from going on further, but it is another to censor it by deleting VALID as well as non-valid posts and opinions. It is AO’s right to do as it wishes in this regard, but this is pretty much against everything AO has ever stood for.

I would sooner have the entire thread deleted, than see it hacked up like that.. akin to the military sensors (the twins) depicted on “Good Morning Vietnam”.

And to tell members not to do something using their own resources, their own time, etc. is going a bit far in my opinion. When AO pays the bills of its members, then it has the right to tell them what to do outside of AO… and even more so on OTHER forums or sites.

I think this was poor judgment on the part of the staff here (who normally do a wonderful job) on AO, and hopefully it will be rectified.

I truly mean no disrespect by this post, but I feel a great disrespect was shown to the general membership........

[Gadget]

I think it's fair enough deleting the contents of the thread, there was a lot of confusion over who the 'bad man' in question was, with innocent parties being blamed and an entire field having its reputation destroyed because of one unverified post.

'Name and shame' is great, when you know exactly who is to blame. Posts which end up with "well I THINK it was this guy but...." don't do anyone any favours.

[Thordic]

Gadget, other issues were brought up in this thread other than the original issue.

Why does this thread get deleted when so many Jim Drew threads have gone on unchecked?

I guess Rooster has friends that Jim doesnt...

And Army, you can delete my posts here all you want if it makes you happy, but what I do elsewhere is none of your goddamn business.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Gadget
I think it's fair enough deleting the contents of the thread, there was a lot of confusion over who the 'bad man' in question was, with innocent parties being blamed and an entire field having its reputation destroyed because of one unverified post.

'Name and shame' is great, when you know exactly who is to blame. Posts which end up with "well I THINK it was this guy but...." don't do anyone any favours.
Content? Nope. If there is confusion then delete the entire thread and if the person who originally posted it can verify who the individual was, then repost it.

But as I see it, it does not matter who the person was. If they did what was stated, it reflects on the field and is not “bad” to address the issue. That is unless folks are saying it never happened, and then they are saying the original poster is lying. But it is funny (or actually NOT funny) how others relate similar stories.

Everyone has good days and bad days. It is a pattern of behavior that is the important thing. And if I owned a field open to the general public, I would want to know if one of my employees were giving my business a bad name. And if that person WAS the owner, why shield him/her from the opinions of their customers? Maybe they will learn something and rethink their actions if they truly are wrong.

But to censor these comments leads people to the conclusion that something is not above board. And even more so to tell the membership not to talk about it in a negative way on OTHER forums is even worse. Even if wrong, AO can control what is posted here on AO, but to think they can control what people do off of AO concerning topics that are not even associated WITH AO is more than a bit of a stretch, and wrong.

Again, I am not trying to cause a problem, or be disrespectful. I am trying to be honest yet not confrontational. But as was pointed out, similar threads have been left alone. And never has the AO staff tried to tell its membership what to do, or not do, in either their personal lives, or on other forums….. at least not that I have seen.

AO is an online community, a family if you will. AO members often meet each other and have personal dealings with each other. But for a Moderator to think that their powers extend past the pages of these forums is confusing at best. The status of members and their “powers” in the real world are not dictated by their status and power here on AO. And when this becomes unclear to members, there is a problem that should be seriously looked at.

I love AO, and enjoy being a member of our online community. But when the staff of this community try to extend their authority past the borders of this forum, I have a big problem.

I hope for the sake of AO that this thread DOES get deleted, in its entirety…. And that a similar situation never happens again.

[JEDI]

Originally posted by Thordic
Gadget, other issues were brought up in this thread other than the original issue.

Why does this thread get deleted when so many Jim Drew threads have gone on unchecked?

I guess Rooster has friends that Jim doesnt...

And Army, you can delete my posts here all you want if it makes you happy, but what I do elsewhere is none of your goddamn business.
You know what I agree 100%. What the heck is goin on here lately on AO. We have AGD employees flying off the handle on us, Mods deciding what opinions are valid, and whom we are allowed to Email or interact with. Now entire threads are being deleted because they're not about "which gun should I get?". I personally get sick when I see 4 pages of replies bashing Jim Drew, go unchecked. I guess hype is a far worse crime around here than rude or demeaning behavior by a feild owner.

Whats the point of this forum anyway? You can't speek your mind. You cant call someone out on poor behavior, and god forbid your views differ from the moderators. I think I'm starting to choke on the overboard PC attitude of this place. At least on PBnation, you feel you've thoroughly been able to convey your thoughts. And yeah, maybe I'm crude, but a few 4 letter words never killed any one. :rolleyes:

Do me a favor, chop this up, and edit so that it is favorable to everyone.

[ezrunner]

Unless this was at the owner of the thread's request, I think this is a serious issue.

I'm not slamming Army, I'm sure someone asked him. I think it is fitting to know who it was.

If this was not done at the request of the poster, then I'm about to rethink my views here.

There were comments made but mostly those were in sarcasm, if they were not, several regulars followed up to it.

-rob

[PolishSausage]

Originally posted by Thordic
Gadget, other issues were brought up in this thread other than the original issue.

Why does this thread get deleted when so many Jim Drew threads have gone on unchecked?

I guess Rooster has friends that Jim doesnt...

And Army, you can delete my posts here all you want if it makes you happy, but what I do elsewhere is none of your goddamn business.


Agreed, completely......

[Gadget]

Hey I'm not being critical of anyone, maybe I missed the other areas of discussion, but when I read the original thread it seemed to be a witchhunt where no-one knew who the bad guy was and people were flinging accusations at 'fat guys who might have been to blame'.

But I do agree that it might have been better to delete the ENTIRE thread rather than leave the top post there and let it all kick off again.

[WARPED1]

To me, it wasn't the issue of what he allegedly said, but to who(this was never verified btw.) this person allegedly said it too. A 10 YEAR OLD CHILD!
THIS IS INEXCUSABLE ON SO MANY FRONTS i 'M NOT GOING TO LIST THEM ALL. Even if you're having a bad day, you don't talk to a kid like that. No matter how much you dislike his marker.

[ezrunner]

More than the fact that a kid was involved,

If you run a field, and someone comes to your field to pay you to play, then you should be professionally courteous to them.

Some kid with a mag is not impressed that you have 2 trophies and an angel. Get over it. He just wants to play some ball.

If this actually happened, it could have been an off the cuff remark that was intended as harsh humor, but a sensitive kid took it too literally. Then the person involved wasn't man enough to appologize and console the kid.

-rob

[Gadget]

Warped - I agree 100%, upsetting a small child simply because of what marker they run isn't nice. However like you said, none of this was ever verified yet a lynch mob was formed nevertheless.

There was quite a bit of feedback from regulars at that field who reckon that the people who own it are very laid back, friendly and pro-mags, which would seem to cast some doubt on who allegedly upset the kid in the first place.

[JEDI]

Ok wait...we're back on the topic. So can we expect to have the thread deleted in a day or so?

[ezrunner]

If the lynchers come back I'm sure it will disappear again.

I still wonder who requested the removal. My bets are Tom found it and saw it as bad (his site he can do that)
or the original poster felt bad.

-rob

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by Gadget
Warped - I agree 100%, upsetting a small child simply because of what marker they run isn't nice. However like you said, none of this was ever verified yet a lynch mob was formed nevertheless.

There was quite a bit of feedback from regulars at that field who reckon that the people who own it are very laid back, friendly and pro-mags, which would seem to cast some doubt on who allegedly upset the kid in the first place. Now have the guy who allegedly said it come defend himself. Or have the original poster deliver some concrete proof. I'd say get the kid, but he's 10, and we'd fry his brain with our crazy posts!:p

[Wc Keep]

syntax error had asked that the bad mouthing of his association be stopped. he said it in the thread before it was deleted.

[Thordic]

No one ever bad-mouthed the entire staff.

Comments were made about the owner, Rooster, and possibly one other employee (the one mentioned in the original post).

I'm sorry Syntax doesn't like it, but thats just too bad. The issues were legitimate, and he has to deal with that.

[JEDI]

YEAH! Rangers suck! :eek: ;)

[WARPED1]

I still would like some proof, but thats never going to happen. How many people that you know videotape thier every move?

[Thordic]

I would link you to the PBN thread where Rooster told everyone to go F themselves.

Unfortunately, it was deleted much like this thread.

There were plenty of people who read the thread though.

[shartley]

What confuses me is that people are demanding verification. That, to me, would be calling the poster of this topic a liar, and questioning his credibility at the least. And since the type of action has been posted about by other members, why is there so much need for “verification”? Even more so since at least one of the Mods verified similar unprofessional behavior (and I saw it myself) by one of the people it “may” have involved.

I agree, leave the teams out of it. They were not involved. And any comments about them are uncalled for, and should be stopped.

But the Field Owner and the Employee (assuming they were not in fact the SAME person) are fair game for conversation and discussion. And people stating their displeasure is NOT a lynch mob. We have seen similar things happen with many people, WAS, for one. And even myself, and less kind things have been said about me than what was said about Rooster and or his staff member…. But until folks broke the rules, it has been left alone… and certainly no public warning was given about posting about me or WAS (or anyone else) on other forums, or e-mailing, etc.

And if folks broke the rules with their posts, I say handle it in the standard way. But from what I saw, no rules were broken. It is more like the bad press was covered up for the sake of some sort of “relationship” with the field by some AO Members. And then went further by trying to tell AO Members that they can’t e-mail anyone involved, talk about it on other forums, etc.

No, the problem was not that folks were forming some sort of lynch mob, but that they should have left the teams out of it, and then AO Staff should not have acted the way it did on the matter. Unless we now have new rules of conduct on AO that go beyond what has always been known. I don’t have a problem with that if this is the case. But we should all be notified of it….. officially…..

[Fred]

what field lets a 10 year old play? or was this just an exaggeration? IIRC you need to be at least 14 (With parental consent) to play at my local fields. I could be wrong though...

---Fred

[shartley]

Originally posted by Fred
what field lets a 10 year old play? or was this just an exaggeration? IIRC you need to be at least 14 (With parental consent) to play at my local fields. I could be wrong though...

---Fred
My son started playing at 8 at a business field (but the owner is our friend). Most fields I know however like to have kids over 10, and even state that, but prefer them to be in their teens.

I think the only real issue would be if the mask fits properly. If it does, a 10 year old is old enough to play as a walk on player.

[Thordic]

10 years is the minimum age requirement at most of the field's I've been to.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Censorship on AO? I wouldn't know anything about what you guys are talking about. ;) ;) ;)

[WARPED1]

10 is the minimum at all fields I've been too, but under 14, a paqrent had to be playing with the kid.

[BajaBoy]

ok all i read was what army said and i cant believe some of you told him off.. thats not cool at all, i mean rooster (sp?) might be a lil mean but he prob did Nothing to YOU.

[Thordic]

Originally posted by BajaBoy
ok all i read was what army said and i cant believe some of you told him off.. thats not cool at all, i mean rooster (sp?) might be a lil mean but he prob did Nothing to YOU.

He told me to go f' myself when I responded to his thread in a way he didn't like.

I hadn't been rude or vulgar. I simply stated that I thought his prices were too high, and even stated a different way of setting up the prices that made it more manageable on the player without changing the actual intake of cash.

This is a fact, something that happened with MANY witnesses. Rooster responded in a rude and VERY vulgar manner to everyone who made comments about his pricing. True, some of the critics were vulgar as well, but Rooster made no distinction in his replies. It was one of the most astounding displays of unprofessionalism I have ever seen in my life.

So, as far as making comments without knowing the whole story goes, I think you are now guilty as well thank you very much.

[Dan_Gleesac]

EVERYONE READ THIS!

There has been a big misunderstanding and a lot of people asked who wanted the thread deleted. Me, The starter of the thread, asked for it to be deleted.

It got way out of hand, and I dont need people to complain to Rooster and here is why...

If people complain to him, and that kid goes back to RexPlex, he will prabably get harrassed.

So to answer your question, It was me who asked for the thread to be deleted. I appreciate Army doing what i asked.

[Thordic]

The starter of a thread can delete it himself, you know.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Dan_Gleesac
EVERYONE READ THIS!

There has been a big misunderstanding and a lot of people asked who wanted the thread deleted. Me, The starter of the thread, asked for it to be deleted.

It got way out of hand, and I dont need people to complain to Rooster and here is why...

If people complain to him, and that kid goes back to RexPlex, he will prabably get harrassed.

So to answer your question, It was me who asked for the thread to be deleted. I appreciate Army doing what i asked.
Yes, as Thordic pointed out, the starter of the thread can delete the entire thread… and if you are THAT worried about what will happen to the kid, you should have deleted the whole thread.

The other issue was Army telling the membership not to e-mail, call, post on other forums, etc. THAT is another issue all together different than just deleting the thread or all the posts in it.

Again, if you are so worried about Rooster and that Paintball Park making it rough on the kid, I would advise deleting the thread yourself. But obviously you don’t really care about the actions enough to stick to your guns. If Rooster or the RexPlex harassed the kid again and even more for THEM being in the wrong in the first place and people letting them know about it, it would only hurt them MORE.

Your choice… either delete the thread, or stick to your guns. It isn’t right to have people’s comments censored because you opened up a can of worms and didn’t like the taste.

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by shartley

Yes, as Thordic pointed out, the starter of the thread can delete the entire thread… and if you are THAT worried about what will happen to the kid, you should have deleted the whole thread.

The other issue was Army telling the membership not to e-mail, call, post on other forums, etc. THAT is another issue all together different than just deleting the thread or all the posts in it.

Again, if you are so worried about Rooster and that Paintball Park making it rough on the kid, I would advise deleting the thread yourself. But obviously you don’t really care about the actions enough to stick to your guns. If Rooster or the RexPlex harassed the kid again and even more for THEM being in the wrong in the first place and people letting them know about it, it would only hurt them MORE.

Your choice… either delete the thread, or stick to your guns. It isn’t right to have people’s comments censored because you opened up a can of worms and didn’t like the taste. Amen brutha!

[GT]

I agree with the changing face of AO. I am currently responding on a post here on AO that i Know is going to get me introuble because I am disagreeing with a mod. I am wondering where it will go.

Dan_Gleesac,
I dont get it? The field was way way way out of line to a 10 year old kid and you are concerned for his well being when he returns? You do relise that using offense langauge towards a child is not an offense taken very lightly by the authorties? Why didn't you adress the issue with the owner right there?

Can anyone post what field this is so I can avoid it? Its kinda funny on my car boards we post about which places are good and bad to buy from, however the mod doesnt jump in when one of the board sponsers gets slammed in a post.

I think some people need to get over themselves

jb

[SyntaxError]

Originally posted by Army

This as been an excercise in foolishness, and you are all to blame for it ending this way.

While I agree, and thank you for clearing up the matter, I don't like that the original post was left, and that the rest of the thread INCLUDING MY POSTS ABOUT OUR FIELD'S POLICY were deleted.

Considering I am the ONLY representative of the field in question, I think at least one of my posts about the matter should have been left undeleted.

Now:
Originally posted by Thordic I'm sorry Syntax doesn't like it, but thats just too bad. The issues were legitimate, and he has to deal with that.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but I'd really appreciate it if you'd step off your soapbox and stop trying to start trouble. As a representative of the field, I'm doing the best I can to see to it that this issue never arises again.

Frankly, I don't see what additional comments have to be made. This thread was brought to the attention of the rest of our staff, and just about everyone was shocked. We're seeing to it that none of these types of issues ever need to be brought up again. So unless you're trying to stir up trouble, Thordic, I would appreciate it if you would leave the issue be.

Finally, thanks WC, for sticking up for us. At least we know that we have a good base of satisfied customers.

Adam "CG"
Shooters & Looters

[LittMag]

Originally posted by SyntaxError

While I agree, and thank you for clearing up the matter, I don't like that the original post was left, and that the rest of the thread INCLUDING MY POSTS ABOUT OUR FIELD'S POLICY were deleted.


I didn't see them, please repost or send me in a direction where I can see them.



I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but I'd really appreciate it if you'd step off your soapbox and stop trying to start trouble. As a representative of the field, I'm doing the best I can to see to it that this issue never arises again.

Frankly, I don't see what additional comments have to be made. This thread was brought to the attention of the rest of our staff, and just about everyone was shocked. We're seeing to it that none of these types of issues ever need to be brought up again. So unless you're trying to stir up trouble, Thordic, I would appreciate it if you would leave the issue be.


Why can't someone voice their opinion? He had a bad experience with Rooster and was stating a simple fact that he was told to f' off. I don't see anywhere where he's trying to start trouble. This issue should not just be left alone, it's absurd. As a representative of your field you should at least post a response to the situtation, whether you think that it happend or not, or what you think actually happened and if it did, how you are going to deal with it. From what I remember in the previous thread, it did not seem like an isolated incident with Rooster. Personally I find it pretty unacceptable that you would try to take such an attitude towards an unsatisfied customer. Trying to forget this incident will not work, and I'm sure by just showing up here to blow us off will not bring you much, if any business again from anyone on AO, maybe you don't want our business.

Unfortunately reputations can be made or broken by just one or two bad experiences. Instead of pointing fingers back at us, perhaps you should try to make ammends or have the owner make some sort of statement to us.



Finally, thanks WC, for sticking up for us. At least we know that we have a good base of satisfied customers.

[BajaBoy]

Originally posted by Thordic


He told me to go f' myself when I responded to his thread in a way he didn't like.

I hadn't been rude or vulgar. I simply stated that I thought his prices were too high, and even stated a different way of setting up the prices that made it more manageable on the player without changing the actual intake of cash.

This is a fact, something that happened with MANY witnesses. Rooster responded in a rude and VERY vulgar manner to everyone who made comments about his pricing. True, some of the critics were vulgar as well, but Rooster made no distinction in his replies. It was one of the most astounding displays of unprofessionalism I have ever seen in my life.

So, as far as making comments without knowing the whole story goes, I think you are now guilty as well thank you very much.


ok well when i said he prob didnt do anything to you... i didnt mean you then;)

lol, it was a general comment that was to the people that have no reason to butt in

[Dan_Gleesac]

Lol, If i knew this was gonna happen, i would have never posted it in the beginning. The next thing i know is that Rexplex will be reposessed and Rooster will be thrown in jail for life. It has already gotten out of hand, and when Syntax wrote everything about his staff, this thread should have ended.

Again, Syntax... You're the man for everything you have said.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Dan_Gleesac
Lol, If i knew this was gonna happen, i would have never posted it in the beginning. The next thing i know is that Rexplex will be reposessed and Rooster will be thrown in jail for life. It has already gotten out of hand, and when Syntax wrote everything about his staff, this thread should have ended.

Again, Syntax... You're the man for everything you have said.
Sorry, but this is totally wrong.

You saw a REAL problem. You posted your concerns about it. MANY people agreed with you. Others expressed similar experiences.

Then someone associated with them posts something in their defense.

Then it is claimed that people are forming a lynch mob and trying to start trouble.

Heck, seems to ME that the trouble was started when the individual in question did what HE did, not by people commenting on it. The comments and concerns shown are VALID, and they didn’t involve tossing anyone in jail, but I don’t think it would be out of line if what you said happened DID happen for folks to stand up and say it isn’t right and should stop.

This thread is total BS. Next time you have a problem or see a problem…. DON’T POST ABOUT IT.

I can understand about SyntaxError wanting to step up and defend his field. I can even commend him for it. But that does not change what has happened, nor the experiences more than a few people have noticed, experienced, and posted about. I hope that the owners of that facility get the message loud and clear and take whatever actions they deem appropriate. But to try to act like people complaining about it are WRONG to do so is just down right the wrong in itself.

Again, I feel like I have been slapped in the face for backing up a person who saw a real problem… and by the person who posted the problem in the first place themselves. How ironic…..

The field and the person who’s actions prompted this thread is NOT the victim in all this, wake up... :rolleyes:

(Added: And if you feel this way about it... why is this thread STILL HERE?)

[WARPED1]

He's missing the point: THE MAN IN QUESTION SAID,ALLEGEDLY, WHAT HE SAID TO A 10 YEAR OLD CHILD! Unacceptable behavior at all times.

[Thordic]

JEDI is right. I have never seen Rooster apologize for ANY of the comments he has made, and this situation seems to be the same, where it is expected that everyone will shut up so it can be swept under the rug.

By the way, JEDI, Leo would have complaint threads 10 pages long if people actually played at ABC anymore :)

[SyntaxError]

Originally posted by JEDI

Ok great, everyone was shocked. But did Rooster actually do anything to find out who the guilty employee is. Did he do anything to reprimand this individual?


Well Adam, first of all, no one knew or admitted to doing, or even hearing of, such a situation. Now I'm not saying it didn't happen, but no one said anything about it. We did, however, address company policy about customer service, and that if such an incident arises again, steps will be taken towards rectifying the situation.


Originally posted by JEDI Having a 14 year old kid responding and attempting to smooth things over for several people that are obviously upset, doesn't seem to rectify the situation to me...

Suprising you should make that comment, would it have been better if an older representative of Shooters Paintball addressed the AO community? I can understand if you might think that I'm naive to the situation because of my age, but considering I work at,play at, and operate Shooters Paintball just as much as many of the older members, I think my say should hold just as much weight.


Originally posted by JEDI You can't just call them Trouble Makers, and excuse the whole thing.
I didn't call anyone but Thordic a troublemaker, and I'll stick to my guns on that point. Considering all that could have been done, WAS done, there is no point to argue about, "He told me to F' off!!". As I had posted, THAT IS ROOSTER IN A NUTSHELL! Unfortunately, I'm sure this happens to alot of people, and although it's not great, its the way things go, and I'm not supporting it in any way. However, as I also posted, he wouldn't act like that to a 10-year old kid, which was the original point of the whole thing. There's no denying he's a coarse guy, but thats not to say he's bad at all. He happens to probably be one of the most generous sponsors and field owners around, and while his rough language and attitude will show, he means it (most of the time) good naturedly. Granted I understand that his rough exterior is a turn-off to some customers, it seems to be the way its always been, I've never known him to be anything different.

I'm not saying its right, or "excusing the whole thing" in any way, that's just him.


]Originally posted by LittMag Why can't someone voice their opinion? He had a bad experience with Rooster and was stating a simple fact that he was told to f' off. I don't see anywhere where he's trying to start trouble. This issue should not just be left alone, it's absurd. As a representative of your field you should at least post a response to the situtation, whether you think that it happend or not, or what you think actually happened and if it did, how you are going to deal with it. From what I remember in the previous thread, it did not seem like an isolated incident with Rooster. Personally I find it pretty unacceptable that you would try to take such an attitude towards an unsatisfied customer.

As to this, you would've had to seen my other posts. After addressing his situation, Thordic returned to it multiple times. We understand this happened, however it doesn't have to be beat to death.


Originally posted by LittMag Instead of pointing fingers back at us, perhaps you should try to make ammends or have the owner make some sort of statement to us.

I have tried to make amends, unfortunately they were deleted. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, either. I understand that it is an incident within our staff, and complaining here won't do anything, I've already done as much as I can. If making an official apology, as well as taking as much action as possible against the situation, isn't enough, I'm sorry, you're not being realistic. As of now, no one knows exactly what happened, or if they do, no one's saying anything.

Finally, I apologize in any way if I have missed something, or not addressed an issue. Please understand that we are doing everything we can, including meeting with everyone, about this issue. We're open to complaints, but complaints that include bashing or flaming our organization or individuals within the organization won't be considered with the same weight as others.

[FreshmanBob]

Syntax I gotta say your one of the most mature 14 year olds I've ever met.

This was one isolated incident, that shouldn't happen and wasn't even involving Rooster. What could be done by the field was obviously done, he can't just randomly fire people to rectify the situation. If the kid and pals had spoken to other employees about it right afterwards and complained to them, things would be different.

I still support Roosters paintball, crap happens and all you can do is try to clean it up and freshen up the smell. Clearly, that was done, Rooster can't know who said it for sure so how can he do anything? I don't ever recall Syntax asking to have the entire thread deleted, he's addressed all the issues, so how is he brushing under the rug or whatever?

This is just getting dragged out.

[GT]

I sit here and read this thread just amazed.


Unfortunately, I'm sure this happens to alot of people,

This <B>*POOF*</B> would not fly anywhere in any buisness. Do you honestly want to work/rep a field who's employees/owner's act this way? I am blow away to even think that paintball has gotten this far for its lack of unprofesionalism(sp).


I understand that it is an incident within our staff, and complaining here won't do anything, I've already done as much as I can.

You sure? I am all the way down here in Houston and you can bet I will not be at this field. How many members and unregistered lurkers do we have on AO? That is a ver large customer base.

In all honesty SyntaxError, Rooster needs to be in this thread kissing butt, ie performing customer service, to AO's seen and unseen community.

Have you had any interaction with other speciality buisnesses similar to that of paintball when thier maybe a problem on the web? The owner of the buisness or a rep that can act in thier best intrest rectfies a potential customer service issue on the spot and does whatever it takes to remedy the sistuation.

o'well just thought I would add my comments; BTW I am still very very unhappy that the previous comments were edited from this post.

jb

<B>*Warning: No Cussing*</B> -Miscue

[sensei]

1.) word-of-mouth and speculation: i think we need to get the original guy that started this thread to verify what actually happened and who the indiviuals were. before you all got worked up, how do you all know that this all wasn't a rumor someone decided to start? furthermore, who do you think had more violent intentions anyway; the one with the bad attitude or the person who wanted to "b!tch slap" that person with a tank? think for yourselves, people.

2.) prices: when (and if) you all own your own businesses, you can talk as much trash as you want. but, rexplex is a high traffic area. we have everyone from lawyers, cops, kids, doctors, dj's, teens, skateboarders, ikea customers, basketball players, college students, us soldiers, college teams, recreational paintball players, tourney paintball players, professional paintball players stopping by our field. it's only a 20 minute drive from new york city. it's in the center of everything. the cost to rent the spot, much less run the field, does not compute to most of you, does it? what happens when we are still hit with bills and we have a week when it's not as busy. all you guys have to do is buy paint, pay for air & admission and leave. if ANY of you have ever worked within the industy or at a field or at least knew what it takes to run a business (costs, rent, insurance, payouts, equipment, strategic advertising, competitive marketing, etc.), then maybe some of the comments made would be valid.

3.) the man: rooster can and will run his business the way he wants. it's just that ---> his business. yes, his choice of words are often full of "colorful metaphors", but when it comes to his business you get what you get, 'cuz it is what it is. don't expect him to "sugar coat" his intentions because there is no "grey area" about this business. paintball "can be" a potentially dangerous sport. sometimes, customers that are too "bunged up" and excited about playing may not necessarily listen or follow the rules of the field. i've kicked out many "KIDS" (yes, some of them are 10 years old) for taking their mask off on the field. yes... KICKED THEM OUT. you may think i'm being unprofessional and "mean" and that kid may get mad at me and cry 'cuz he lost his money and can't play, but the way i see it is that now he'll always remember to leave his goggles on the next time he plays at our field and that it was because of me that he still has his eye sight to play another day.

4.) business is business: because the sport is still new to a lot of people, the customers ARE NOT always right (especially, when the business is a paintball field). anyone here know how much insurance costs for a paintball field? i'm sorry if our professionalism may not be like "greetings and welcome to shooter's paintball at rexplex, how may i help you" that you're all used to when you go to a walmart in pennsylvania, but the refs have to deal with hours of getting shot up by rental-playing noobies, deal with the bad attitudes of recreational players in camos and deal with tournament noobs with hot guns; the staff has to deal with rental equipment, deal with air equipment, deal with customer service and deal with making the parents understand why the process of playing paintball games is not as simple as waiting on line for a rollercoaster ride; and rooster has deal with the complicated task of bringing all of this (the field, the staff, the team(s), the customers, the funds, the business) together. the stress and frustration would make any friendly bloke age 10 years in a matter or months. so... before any of you talk out your @$$ again about things you know little about, be sure to do your homework first. get all sides of the story and take a business course at your local college. have i said anything offensive, or did i say anything any of you can really think about?

was this "unprofessional" enough for any of you?

i'll be on the field yelling at our customers, thank you for your attention...

sensei

[ezrunner]

I agree with a lot of things in your rant.

The premise of this conversation was that some guy at some field made an uncalled for remark to a kid with a gun problem.

The remark "reportedly" was that the kid's marker was not fit for use. The remark was made in such as fashion as to be derogatory and it made the kid cry.

That is not the same as me tossing a 12yr old off a field for shooting me 15 times when I'm not carrying a marker and I have an orange vest on and I've been screeming I"M A REF for 5 minutes.

-rob

[WARPED1]

HOLY DEAD THREAD RESSURECTION BATMAN!:D

[shartley]

You know, some people would do better to leave a topic ALONE! LOL

That rant had virtually NOTHING to do with the original problem.

And anyone can talk about prices whether they own their own business or not. To act otherwise is ignorant. Heck, I don’t own a gas station, but you can bet that I was not happy when prices went through the roof.

Also, colorful language is fine for a bar, but when you run a business open to all ages you should really show just a little bit of class. And the includes when you are kicking someone off the field for safety violations.

And I have been privy to the workings and costs of a Paintball Business for quite a few years and NONE of that has anything to do with people speaking their minds about an unprofessional business owner or employee. And when someone gets into this business, they had better understand that it WILL be stressful. They had better understand that there WILL be idiots day in and day out. And if they can’t handle it, they should rethink getting into the business. And they can’t blame THEIR being jerks on the pressures of the business THEY chose to open.

You are correct, Rooster can do anything he wants. It IS his business. But from your post, and what I have been reading, you can bet that if I was in that area, they would not get any of MY business. When you forget that your income relies on CUSTOMERS and it is a SERVICE industry (which Paintball Parks ARE), you deserve to lose your customers. But unfortunately there are just not enough fields around so sometimes folks really don’t have much of a choice.

Sensei, that post was just sad and if it represents that field….. oh my. You did more harm than good, but I bet you can’t see that.

[hitech]

Originally posted by sensei
was this "unprofessional" enough for any of you?


Yes it was. I'm glad you don't work with me. :(

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

wow sensei, you took us all through what it is to operate/work at a paintball field. Unfortunately, that doesn't give anyone an excuse to be an <B>alligator</B>. Sure, like you said, people get irritated when working a job like that from getting shot up as a ref, or having tons of bills as a field owner, and you are right, Rooster can tell everyone that walkes into the door to go f' themselves, but that doesn't mean he'll get any buisness. You are there to ref, if you don't expect to get shot up, then you need to find another job. A 12 year old that's playing for the first time is gonna shoot everything that moves, including a ref with no gun and an orange jersey, <B>*POOF*</B>, even pros still do it, watch an xball game and see how much refs get shot. Now, back to the point about rooster, I understand he has bills to pay, I understand he has other expenses too. Sure, he charges alot, but the customers do have their say in prices. For examlple, if you charge me $100+ a case and $20 to get in, and then $6 a fill for air, even if you are indoors and the nicest field or the only field around, I sure as hell am not paying that much to play paintball. If you charge me $20 for a $10 item, I can guarentee at least 75% of all people will complain. Also, you said because this is a young sport the customer is not always right, well you are wrong. No matter what buisness you are running, the customer IS RIGHT, even if you don't agree or if the customer is in fact wrong, the customer is right! Only way they wouldn't be right was if they broke a rule. well i'm off mah soapbox.

<B>*Warning: No Cussing*</B> -Miscue

[GT]

Originally posted by shartley
You know, some people would do better to leave a topic ALONE! LOL

That rant had virtually NOTHING to do with the original problem.

Sensei, that post was just sad and if it represents that field….. oh my. You did more harm than good, but I bet you can’t see that.

Great post!,
I think we were seperated at birth! That was my first thought, this is my second being if you want to run a truly sucessfuly buisness you have many lessons to learn.

I hope the trip isnt to hard.

jb

[sensei]

Sensei, that post was just sad and if it represents that field….. oh my. You did more harm than good, but I bet you can’t see that.

what's worse? my post, or you repeating issues and problems i've already posted the answers to?


I'm glad you don't work with me.

well, if you did, maybe things would get done. :)


wow sensei, you took us all through what it is to operate/work at a paintball field.

actually, no i didn't. if you knew, hands on, you'd probably understand.


Unfortunately, that doesn't give anyone an excuse to be an *******.

anyone & everyone has the right to be an @$$hole (if they want to). it's called freedom and it's no excuse.


You are there to ref, if you don't expect to get shot up, then you need to find another job.

i ref about 30+ games a day on an average within 6 hours and i never said i expected NOT to get shot up. get your facts straight.


For examlple, if you charge me $100+ a case and $20 to get in, and then $6 a fill for air, even if you are indoors and the nicest field or the only field around, I sure as hell am not paying that much to play paintball. If you charge me $20 for a $10 item, I can guarentee at least 75% of all people will complain.

irrelevant. bad example, because these rates do not pertain to our field. these prices are probably close to skirmish's, though... oh, but they have thousands of customers per week, don't they? oh wait, YOU'RE not a customer, are you? well, they'll really miss you, won't they?

ok.

how many of you have been to our field? if you haven't, you really cannot understand what you have not experienced. if you do not understand (and/or unwilling to understand) there is nothing more i can say/type. so, i think that breaks it down to just the one person... the original poster. since, he was there.

as far as business is concerned, things are really moving full speed ahead; this includes rexplex, shooters painball and the team, shooters & looters.

so, as far as...


I think we were seperated at birth! That was my first thought, this is my second being if you want to run a truly sucessfuly buisness you have many lessons to learn. I hope the trip isnt to hard.

... is concerned, you can tell yourself (and your twin brother) that the lessons are constantly being learned and the trip has been hard. but you know what they say, "nothing good comes easy" right? so, now what constitutes a successful business? growth? well, we take pride at the fact that during the winter/tournament off season, a substantial amount of players/teams, unwilling to play at an outdoor field in 3-feet of snow, migrate to our facility. but, around and/or by the end of this month, our customers can look forward to our brand-spanking-new outdoor field (underneath a huge tent covering the entire playing field), a fully equipped pro shop and an entrance located at the back of the complex specifically for our customers, paintballers, spectators and their families. so, for anyone that wants to take their game to the next level by playing some of the area's serious ballers (because we do get 'em all!), we are located off of exit 13a on the turnpike in elizabeth, nj, near newark airport right next to IKEA. we are open every day of the week, give or take a few days for holidays and you can check out our rates and daily schedule to accomidate your level of play @ shooterspb.com (http://www.shooterspb.com)

thank you all for posting and your opinions... although, unintuitive, i found them quite entertaining.

:rolleyes:

sensei

[shartley]

Originally posted by sensei


what's worse? my post, or you repeating issues and problems i've already posted the answers to?



well, if you did, maybe things would get done. :)



actually, no i didn't. if you knew, hands on, you'd probably understand.



anyone & everyone has the right to be an @$$hole (if they want to). it's called freedom and it's no excuse.



i ref about 30+ games a day on an average within 6 hours and i never said i expected NOT to get shot up. get your facts straight.



irrelevant. bad example, because these rates do not pertain to our field. these prices are probably close to skirmish's, though... oh, but they have thousands of customers per week, don't they? oh wait, YOU'RE not a customer, are you? well, they'll really miss you, won't they?

ok.

how many of you have been to our field? if you haven't, you really cannot understand what you have not experienced. if you do not understand (and/or unwilling to understand) there is nothing more i can say/type. so, i think that breaks it down to just the one person... the original poster. since, he was there.

as far as business is concerned, things are really moving full speed ahead; this includes rexplex, shooters painball and the team, shooters & looters.

so, as far as...



... is concerned, you can tell yourself (and your twin brother) that the lessons are constantly being learned and the trip has been hard. but you know what they say, "nothing good comes easy" right? so, now what constitutes a successful business? growth? well, we take pride at the fact that during the winter/tournament off season, a substantial amount of players/teams, unwilling to play at an outdoor field in 3-feet of snow, migrate to our facility. but, around and/or by the end of this month, our customers can look forward to our brand-spanking-new outdoor field (underneath a huge tent covering the entire playing field), a fully equipped pro shop and an entrance located at the back of the complex specifically for our customers, paintballers, spectators and their families. so, for anyone that wants to take their game to the next level by playing some of the area's serious ballers (because we do get 'em all!), we are located off of exit 13a on the turnpike in elizabeth, nj, near newark airport right next to IKEA. we are open every day of the week, give or take a few days for holidays and you can check out our rates and daily schedule to accomidate your level of play @ shooterspb.com (http://www.shooterspb.com)

thank you all for posting and your opinions... although, unintuitive, i found them quite entertaining.

:rolleyes:

sensei
Sensei,
I would advise not posting again. You are talking to some folks that actually KNOW what they are talking about. And just working at a Paintball Park does not give you, in itself, the “knowledge” of all things business related, or even paintball business related. Like I have stated, I have close personal dealings with field owners, paintball businesses, and own two businesses of my own.

Your thumbing of your nose at everyone and acting like no one here understands business, paintball, or what you go through is totally pathetic and truly shows a complete lack of public relations skills and simple business sense. AO is a HUGE audience, to either help your business or hurt it. And by acting like the field you work at is above any criticism, that everyone here is ignorant, and that you and the field just don’t care… but come on down anyways!.... it shows a level of condescension that I have not seen in quite a while.

And your attitude about folks being jerks (by the way, WE have rules on AO as well… FOLLOW THEM! Stop your cussing and filter avoidance.) maybe you should take one of those business courses you suggested folks take at their local college. You show a propensity for extreme ignorance and foot in mouth disease.

You may think you were defending your employer, but in all honesty, you hurt that field’s case… and badly. You actually help verify that such things as have been discussed here in this thread are most likely right on the money about that field and its employees/owner. And if they are NOT as you are making them appear, and you were MY employee…. You would receive your first warning, I would be on AO to clear up the matter, and if you did it again you would be FIRED.

[shartley]

I had to add (but didn’t want folks thinking I edited my last post)……..

As for growth and success….. with many paintball fields thinking that growth in itself means they are doing something right, are conducting themselves in a professional manner, etc. makes me laugh. Many times just BEING OPEN will create growth in itself. Paintball is a growing sport, and more times than not it is a lack of choices that cause a customer to play at any given field, over the “superior service”, or them doing things right.

It reminds me of the movie “Armageddon” …… “That’s not a choice Gracie, it is the lack of options.”

“We have an indoor field and winter use skyrocketed!” No kidding!?!?! And you think that is for ANY other reason than it was THERE? LOL

Too many people confuse the reason for “success” and assign them to things that just are not the correct reasons. And because of customer use a field will gain funds to expand and improve the facilities…. But that does not mean the STAFF or OWNER are doing anything right. I have sat back and shook my head time and time again and marveled at how businesses in the Paintball World seem to defy the laws of business and if they were in ANY other business they would be sent packing.

So don’t come to AO and act like working for a paintball field gives you the slightest clue on how to run a business.

And it is clear some folks think it is more important to look “tough”, and “I will do what I darn well want, and you can do nothing about it”, than it is to present a good image for their field/complex/business. They should really take a few courses no Public Relations.

[Thordic]

Well, I'd like to thank sensei for showing me that my personal boycott of Shooters isn't unfounded. Apparently not only is Rooster an ***, but he hires them as well.

Thanks :)

[GT]

I just don’t get it. Sensi do you honestly think that folks, players, are going to stick around once your competitors develop? My personal belief that this whole thread has been one huge PR nightmare for the field, patrons, employees, and owner(s) involved. I think the tragedy, for the field involved, is how underestimated the subscribers are to this message board. Have you looked at how many views this thread has received? How many lurking non-registered members have viewed this post and already decided not to play at your facility? The really sad part is that it has nothing to do with the incident, and everything to do with the response.

If I was as arrogant as you are, at your job, I would be homeless.

jb

[Wc Keep]

shooters pb gears itself more towards the serious tournament players. of course they would like some rec ball players, but rec ballers like to play woods and stuff and shooters only offers sup air. but when you can say to serious tourney players that redz factory team, shooters, pb megastore, and terminal velocity are all attending your facility, it draws out all these teams that would like to get in a great practice. so when you say, "oh people are going to stay away from your facility now cause they saw this" its not going to change his customer base all that much. ok all you ao'ers are now not going to shooters pb, but how many of you live in jersey and how many actually live in jersey that dont already play there in the winter?

oh and shartley if you're gonna tell people about rules why dont you tell the others to stop calling people *** and *******. we understand that just as well as we do @$$hole.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Wc Keep
oh and shartley if you're gonna tell people about rules why dont you tell the others to stop calling people *** and *******. we understand that just as well as we do @$$hole.
I actually only pointed that out to HIM because he was the only one stressing RULES. Seems one of his biggest defending arguments for being a jerk was about rule enforcement. ;) I thought it was a bit hypocritical for him to stress how important it is to follow rules (and even be a jerk about enforcing them) and yet not be able to follow a simple rule about inappropriate language here.

I agree, all others should follow the language rules too… but as you can see, the reason I pointed it out was not simply because he broke the rule… but did so after stressing following rules. ;)

[sensei]

when you (actually me) enforce the rules, people think you are being a jerk (chrono, mask down!, barrel condom!, don't carry your equipment in public outside of your bag, chrono again, etc.).

also, yes, we draw a lot (a lot) of tournament players, but the percentage of rentals and walk-ons is greater.

as far as the future is concerned, we will see what we will see. wont we?

again, you've never been to shooters, so your opinions (suggestions, name calling and empty threats) are futile.

thordic, sorry to hear that we won't be seeing you. you will be missed. :rolleyes:

sensei

[shartley]

Originally posted by sensei
when you (actually me) enforce the rules, people think you are being a jerk (chrono, mask down!, barrel condom!, don't carry your equipment in public outside of your bag, chrono again, etc.).

also, yes, we draw a lot (a lot) of tournament players, but the percentage of rentals and walk-ons is greater.

as far as the future is concerned, we will see what we will see. wont we?

again, you've never been to shooters, so your opinions (suggestions, name calling and empty threats) are futile.

thordic, sorry to hear that we won't be seeing you. you will be missed. :rolleyes:

sensei
Actually that is NOT what the problem is….. What the problem is, is that your rant and continuing posts have NOTHING to do with the initial problem that was being discussed… but has EVERYTHING to do with the “attitude” that spawns the actions talked about in the initial post.

And your continuing snips about how people don’t matter, and their opinions about the actions don’t matter, because they may not be in that area show a continued ignorance to the problem. I am talking to YOU, and I live in NH. Joe Smith may live in Oklahoma. And Bob Somebody may very well live right in your home town. And while not everyone will POST, they very well may be READING.

Simply enforcing the rules will NOT in itself make people think you are being a jerk. I know plenty of fields that have strict rules and enforce them strongly… but their staff are not jerks about it. Being a jerk is a personal choice, not one forced upon a person because they have to enforce rules. Bad language is also a personal choice and not forced upon someone because they have to enforce rules. And likewise professional behavior is also a personal choice, but one that SHOULD be forced upon you because you have to enforce rules.

As for the future, I am sure you will not close up shop and blow away like a tumbleweed. In fact, I would go the extra step and say that you will more than likely GROW. But that does not mean you are a good place to play at, nor that you or your staff are doing the right thing. And the sad thing is that you don’t understand that.

Want to know what is keeping Paintball from being respected? Staff and Owners just like what has been demonstrated in this thread. And no amount of “sales”, “attendance”, or “field expansion” will make customers leave a facility thinking anything other than “What a bunch of Rednecks with no class.” If all they hear is “colorful language” coming from the owner and staff, and Refs who don’t know the difference between enforcing rules and being jerks.

But hey, what do I know, right? You would rather get into a “I know you are but what am I” and “Sticks and stones may break my bones…” argument about issues that are your field’s problems and not the general publics. Real professional operation you have going there……. But again, you probably can’t understand the difference between professionalism and making money… and they are far from being the same thing. And guess what? Chances are you would make MORE if you simply cleaned up your acts.

But again, what do I know……………..

[GT]

Originally posted by shartley
Want to know what is keeping Paintball from being respected? Staff and Owners just like what has been demonstrated in this thread. And no amount of “sales”, “attendance”, or “field expansion” will make customers leave a facility thinking anything other than “What a bunch of Rednecks with no class.” If all they hear is “colorful language” coming from the owner and staff, and Refs who don’t know the difference between enforcing rules and being jerks.



I agree shartley,
This is a problem that has plagued other sports as well. It makes me so HOT to see posts like this and Sensei's continual 'claimed' success over the issue. My personal belief is that paintball is soon coming to the cusp of growth, meaning this is the do or die for it to become an actual recognized sport. The hearts of Americans, or people in general, are not one by flashy media coverage of some lame tourney or a scenario game. What makes a sport real popular are the people that play it AND a love for the game. YOU MUST HAVE BOTH! Posting how a. people dont matter, b. being a jerk, c. colorfull language use, will not further our sport.

Keep going Sensei, at making us look bad.
:rolleyes:


jb

[GT]

Originally posted by Wc Keep
oh and shartley if you're gonna tell people about rules why dont you tell the others to stop calling people *** and *******. we understand that just as well as we do @$$hole.

How old are you, 13?

Look chief hitch a ride on the maturity train. BTW, are you the kind of person I can expect to play with a Shooters?

jb

[sensei]

again, with the paragraphs upon paragraphs of issues already discussed. and if you scroll back a few posts, i haven't really resorted to name-calling, insults or empty threats. you can continue to get worked up about this stuff and continue to post your novels (of complaints), but you don't need me to make you look bad, you've done a great job doing that yourselves.

i'll see ya'll at a shooter's field sometime,

sensei

[Dayspring]

He's 18 and plays for PBX Black Cell. Rooster was kind enough to offer our 7 PBX teams a deal to play at the Rex Plex during the winter. I can't speak for the other PBX teams, but I know that Black Cell had a good working relationship with Rooster and his staff. He could always count on our team showing up tuesday nights, playing hard and fair and cleaning up when we're done.

Now that our outdoor field is opening up, we won't be at the Plex. But I look forward to the day that I can play there during inclement weather again. I always thought that Rooster was a fun guy to hang around with. He even allowed myself and another team member to help do air fills when it got busy. How many privately owned fields let you do that?

This has really gone too far. Let it go. Most of you won't EVER play there, because of distance or because of something you "heard." But until you meet the guy in person and play his fields, I think it's a little unfair to convict him of being a real jerk.

And in response to the comment about "Are you the same kind of person I can expect to play with a Shooters?"

That's just childish. The Shooters teams are very friendly as well as good competition. I've played along side as well as against the Shooters teams and would gladly do it again. Does that make me a traitor? No. Does that make me a jerk? No. (No moreso than I already am. :p) Grow up Gtrsi...:rolleyes:


Originally posted by gtrsi


How old are you, 13?

Look chief hitch a ride on the maturity train. BTW, are you the kind of person I can expect to play with a Shooters?

jb

[Tom Sparkman]

Originally posted by shartley
Want to know what is keeping Paintball from being respected? Staff and Owners just like what has been demonstrated in this thread. And no amount of “sales”, “attendance”, or “field expansion” will make customers leave a facility thinking anything other than “What a bunch of Rednecks with no class.” If all they hear is “colorful language” coming from the owner and staff, and Refs who don’t know the difference between enforcing rules and being jerks.

We have a lot of fields in SoCal and I've run into that attitude at most of them. Fortunately, there are enough to pick and choose so we don't go back to those fields. For the first-timer or newbie, it's a rude awakening.

And Sensei, there's an axiom in business that says a happy customer will tell one person about his experience, an unhappy customer will tell 10 people. I don't live on the East coast but I do have a couple of friends in NY that play paintball - I'll be sure and tell them what kind of attitude employees of Rexplex have.

Tom

[WARPED1]

Wait wait, I thought this was about Rexplex, not the Shooters?

[Tom Sparkman]

Heh, sorry - I got interrupted (went to lunch with my Dad) and tried to remember what state I was in (is this Kansas Toto???) :eek:

(mental note - reread before posting. Measure twice, cut once...)

Tom :)

[GT]

Originally posted by Dayspring
And in response to the comment about "Are you the same kind of person I can expect to play with a Shooters?"

That's just childish. The Shooters teams are very friendly as well as good competition. I've played along side as well as against the Shooters teams and would gladly do it again. Does that make me a traitor? No. Does that make me a jerk? No. (No moreso than I already am. :p) Grow up Gtrsi...:rolleyes:

I am sorry Tom but you are wrong. When someone attempts to cuss another member I would inturn call that very childish. Shame on you for endorsing such behavior. I also find it funny when some 'kid' comes on a web board and attempts to talk like a big man, if you consider crud langauge 'big man'. Sorry I would love to so an 18 y/o do that to me in public.

I am done with this topic.

jb

[SyntaxError]

Originally posted by shartley

You may think you were defending your employer, but in all honesty, you hurt that field’s case… and badly. You actually help verify that such things as have been discussed here in this thread are most likely right on the money about that field and its employees/owner. And if they are NOT as you are making them appear, and you were MY employee…. You would receive your first warning, I would be on AO to clear up the matter, and if you did it again you would be FIRED.

Unfortunately, this thread is still up here. You guys have to understand the perspective that we have here, and that is that many of you posters are demeaning Shooters Paintball.

In any other case, the flaming of people in the industry and their businesses/products wouldn't be condoned, I can't understand why this isn't closed yet. Frankly, the incomprehensible rantings of people who refuse to grow up and understand that although it would be NICE if people didn't use foul language, IT'S NOT GONNA JUST STOP. I am not condoning these actions in any way, and in fact I think this arguement would be, for the most part, over if my prior posts weren't deleted. I consider the fact that someone deleted the posts of a field representative, but allowed other "flaming" posts to stay, is unjust.

As for this argument, it won't be resolved unfortunately. Nothing's gonna change a person's disposition, and therefore if you don't like it, DON'T COME TO OUR FIELD! It's as simple as that. Again, I'm not trying to justify anything that happened, I'd just like to stop the whining. It's Rooster's business, he can do what he wants. Frankly, he's so good to our team that there's nothing bad at all to say about him from my perspective. Sure, he's a rough guy, but that's how he's always been, and despite being rough, he's not a bad person at all. As far as the paintball industry goes, there's loads of utter garbage that's passed off as company representatives, and I'd advise some of you to go to a major tournament and see how many of these other people act. It's no different, if not worse.

Please, if you continue an argument, leave the flaming and demeaning of our facility and staff out of it. Otherwise, you look just as immature and arrogant as you claim members of our organization to be.

Adam "CG"
Shooters & Looters

[shartley]

Originally posted by SyntaxError


Unfortunately, this thread is still up here. You guys have to understand the perspective that we have here, and that is that many of you posters are demeaning Shooters Paintball.

In any other case, the flaming of people in the industry and their businesses/products wouldn't be condoned, I can't understand why this isn't closed yet. Frankly, the incomprehensible rantings of people who refuse to grow up and understand that although it would be NICE if people didn't use foul language, IT'S NOT GONNA JUST STOP. I am not condoning these actions in any way, and in fact I think this arguement would be, for the most part, over if my prior posts weren't deleted. I consider the fact that someone deleted the posts of a field representative, but allowed other "flaming" posts to stay, is unjust.

As for this argument, it won't be resolved unfortunately. Nothing's gonna change a person's disposition, and therefore if you don't like it, DON'T COME TO OUR FIELD! It's as simple as that. Again, I'm not trying to justify anything that happened, I'd just like to stop the whining. It's Rooster's business, he can do what he wants. Frankly, he's so good to our team that there's nothing bad at all to say about him from my perspective. Sure, he's a rough guy, but that's how he's always been, and despite being rough, he's not a bad person at all. As far as the paintball industry goes, there's loads of utter garbage that's passed off as company representatives, and I'd advise some of you to go to a major tournament and see how many of these other people act. It's no different, if not worse.

Please, if you continue an argument, leave the flaming and demeaning of our facility and staff out of it. Otherwise, you look just as immature and arrogant as you claim members of our organization to be.

Adam "CG"
Shooters & Looters
First of all, I only addressed what was POSTED, and the actions that were claimed to have happened.

None of my posts were rants.

And as for growing up… you are kidding, right? As a man who has not only lived quite a few years and RAISED children OLDER than you, you might want to rethink your position on folks growing up. And you are failing to understand that we are not just talking about “people” using foul language, but BUSINESS OWNERS and EMPLOYEES of a business. And if you can’t understand that, than maybe you should do just a little growing up yourself.

My posts were direct responses to what was said by at least one staff member, and what was alleged to have been said by someone else at the facility. And from the response it has received, it would only lead any rational person to believe it did indeed happen. Even Rooster’s actions on the other forum point to this.

Folks here have only been stating basic business principles… something that seems to be totally missed by employees at that facility, and that is a shame.

Now, I can understand you wanting to stand up for your field and someone who treats you well. Truly I can. But there is a fine line between loyalty and stupidity…. and there is a difference between defending someone from LIES, and taking a bullet for them for their actual bad behavior. And you my young friend just did the latter of the two. I hope Rooster (or whoever said what was claimed was said) appreciates it, because at least to me, it only made you look foolish.

Want this thread to die? Then those who want to in ANY way defend the actions being discussed here, or want to attack those who want to condemn them (the actions), need to stop posting. You act like people who are standing up for decent behavior and business practices are WRONG for standing up and speaking their minds about it. This is sad, and just shows the mentality of transferring responsibility to anyone other than those at fault that is the problem with much of today’s society.

So…. he treats YOU good, screw the rest of the world right? Sad.

You seem like a good kid….. maybe you should just walk away from this “fight”, you picked the wrong side. And I wonder what folks would think if Tom Kaye was to start taking on the same attitude as has been shown in this thread……… :rolleyes:

[Wc Keep]

Originally posted by gtrsi


I am sorry Tom but you are wrong. When someone attempts to cuss another member I would inturn call that very childish. Shame on you for endorsing such behavior. I also find it funny when some 'kid' comes on a web board and attempts to talk like a big man, if you consider crud langauge 'big man'. Sorry I would love to so an 18 y/o do that to me in public.

I am done with this topic.

jb

ok you quoted me originally without even knowing what i was talking about. shartley had told sensei to stop circumventing the cuss filter yet he had not told anyone else. i was just pointing out that it was not right for him to do that. and shartley even later explained his reasoning for saying it and acknowledged that it wasnt an attack on him. that shows that you didnt read everything that was said.

[superdesk2007]

yay

[Riotz]

Originally posted by Thordic
Well, I'd like to thank sensei for showing me that my personal boycott of Shooters isn't unfounded. Apparently not only is Rooster an ***, but he hires them as well.

Dude, don't get me started. We were practicing at Rex one time and the guy filling the tanks goes up to some of my guys and accuses me of wiping. Mind you, he pointed me out to them as I walked in. He knew I was on their team.

Of course my guys told me and I was furious. I then went to Rooster to inform him. He was cool about it and apologized. Just goes to show you what type of people work there.

[Riotz]

The Shooters teams are very friendly as well as good competition. I've played along side as well as against the Shooters teams and would gladly do it again. Who you kidding? Most (not all) of the shooter's players play on and wipe at their home field. We've seen it many times this winter. The only time I played with them and DID NOT see it, was when I played with one of the shooter's teams VS another shooter's team. Black Cell encountered these "playing on" problems allot. Either because; there was not enough refs or the refs let them or the players just didn’t "check themselves".

Now how can you just forget it or not speak about it? I know most of us blew some fuses because of it.

[Riotz]

One more reply I swear!


Adam,

No offense. I greet you all the time when I see you. I wish you would have stayed with the PBX family. And your dad is a good guy, I enjoy talking to him.


But did one of your parents write these replies for you?

I only ask because I've seen some of your other ones, and they had to be censored by your former captain from dead cell because they were just childish and out of control. Just curious tis all.

[SyntaxError]

Originally posted by Riotz
One more reply I swear!
Adam,

No offense. I greet you all the time when I see you. I wish you would have stayed with the PBX family. And your dad is a good guy, I enjoy talking to him.


But did one of your parents write these replies for you?

I only ask because I've seen some of your other ones, and they had to be censored by your former captain from dead cell because they were just childish and out of control. Just curious tis all.

First, I have nothing against you or any of the PBX guys, just so everything's clear.

But second, no, they definately didn't write them for me. Neither of my parents even like me on these message boards, let alone defending rooster.

As for childish and out of control, I'd like an example? How did Adam censor them for me? I think that maybe I stepped up to defend my sponsor, home field, and manager, and so I chose to speak more eloquently than a quick response would allow. As a representative of both Shooters & Looters as a team, and Shooters Paintball, I can't afford to screw things up more than what's already gone down. Considering that I'll be covering some major tournaments over the summer for a major magazine, I think my writing skills are more than supplementary :D

As for playing on, I can honestly tell you that ALL of our players are very against cheating in any way. In fact, in our team meeting before the first leg of the GPL, Rooster went as far as saying "If you're gonna cheat, don't play for me". It may have happened, I don't know, but our Shooters guys don't wipe or play on as a game plan, and it's insulting that you would put that online. I really, REALLY don't want to start any Shooters/PBX fights, but some of our squads didn't have great things to say about PBX teams, either.

Now Shartley, I agree with you that consumers should be able to speak their minds, however blatant flames ARE NOT acceptable when speaking one's mind, at least to me. By flaming Rooster, you're doing the same thing you're accusing him of.

I'm not going to post in this thread anymore, this thread was brought to Rooster's attention, and we all decided there's nothing more that can be done in stopping the arguements on this board except just leaving.

[WARPED1]

I think yall need to find the actual person who said this originaly and suspend or fire him for bad customer service.

[Crazy]

Originally posted by WARPED1
I think yall need to find the actual person who said this originaly and suspend or fire him for bad customer service.

i think you need to find the kid who posted this and find out if it was actually true. kids can change storys so easily to make it interesting.

[shartley]

Originally posted by SyntaxError
Now Shartley, I agree with you that consumers should be able to speak their minds, however blatant flames ARE NOT acceptable when speaking one's mind, at least to me. By flaming Rooster, you're doing the same thing you're accusing him of.

I'm not going to post in this thread anymore, this thread was brought to Rooster's attention, and we all decided there's nothing more that can be done in stopping the arguements on this board except just leaving.
Well, you keep saying “you” and referring to me personally. Where did I flame Rooster? Where did I flame ANYONE? Heck, from the start I have tried to keep my comments on the ISSUE and the actions shown, not the person (or people). I have even tried to apply my feelings and opinions to ALL paintball fields, owners, and employees.

I am sorry, if you felt that anything I posted was a flame, but it wasn’t. And if you can’t differentiate between someone belittling a child and his chosen equipment (as well as foul language, and other problems posted about in this thread), and people saying that is unacceptable, I am sorry for that as well.

I agree though, it is best to just leave this thread alone. I am glad it has been brought to Rooster’s attention and I hope he does some serious thinking about it….. but from what I have seen of his posts, and from others dealing with him, I doubt it will make a bit of difference to him.

I, for one, am through with this thread.

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by Crazy


i think you need to find the kid who posted this and find out if it was actually true. kids can change storys so easily to make it interesting. That's true as well.