Tombstone field in LA has banned rt's on mags and A-5's

[wallace9111]

This weekend I was playing at Tombstone with a private group. We played all day, then in the last part of the day they decided that rt's on tippmans and mags were illegal(if they knew what to look for, they only stated all rt triggers were full auto and thus wrong to use.) A guy from another private group got called out on it, then they noticed guys in our group with them, and told them they had to leave and they were cheating. I freaked out and got in a big arguement with the refs and owners(who had decided earlier inthe day thatis was fine to use, then another ref decided it was not and the fun insued)and so did my friend and everyone else in our group and the other guys group too. They kept stating that they were full auto. They did not mention a word to me all day when i used my xvalve but they flipped out on the response triggers on tippman A-5's. Has anyone else had crappy problems like this?

All I have to say to this is Outrageous!!!!


Also my friends defense was Icould shoot faster on my gun than his and they shrugged their shoulders and went on complaining about his gun. They probably did not understand the xvalve is rt. Ironic comedy at its best!

[shartley]

Ignorance in full bloom... it IS spring! :D

[ezrunner]

The big difference I think is that making an RT style valve go "RT" or runaway or auto or whatever is not too hard, but the response trigger on the A5 is very easy to use.

That gun is for all intents a full auto if adjusted right. The mags can be made to do this but out of the box it isn't as easy. You can dial in the pressure from your tank for this to happen but the A5's are rediculous.

We have had kids use them here at Clemson on our private field. These are students and we need to make them adjust out that effect, but they think it is "super cool".

So, I like to watch them waste paint, then snap shoot them off the field, for instance:

BBBRRRRRRIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPP>>>..

Thought to self: " What was that? "

---> take a quick look....

BBBRRRRRRIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPP>>>.

----> say very loudly:
"IS THAT A TIPPMAN?"

---> The tippman owners all cheer and say "YEAH IT IS!"

----> take a quick head check, post on the guy

BAP BAP BAP (tripple tap his hopper)

----> watch him walking of the field, again very loudly:

"IS THAT A TIPPMAN?"


They will eventually come around. :)

-rob

[50 cal]

Ignorance is bliss!

The industry in all its glory should put out a guide line for field owners. What guns can and can not do. Which guns can do what, or what they can't do.

I got into a little heated discussion at a local field about 7 oz CO2 bottles. There is an ASTM bulletin about CO2 cylinders that are less than 2.5" in diameter not needing hydro-testing. The 7 oz and 3.5 oz bottles are that diameter and don't need testing. This one field refuses to even look at the bulletin to comfirm it.
I don't use CO2, but lots of noobs do with their Spyders and whatnot.
I was just trying to help and got called every bonehead name in the book over it.

Oh well......ignorance really is bliss.

[ezrunner]

Like 50cal said, I don't think people would read it, even if the industry got together and published a consolidated findings report.

There would be a field or two in each area that would but most wouldn't care. There are people who are in this industry as a business and not as a lifestyle. Those people simply aren't motivated to do any more work than is required for them to be profitable.

How many kids can walk a trigger at 8 - 12 bps? How many A5's shoot that way? The danger may not be in the rate of fire but in the hands of a lower experienced individual.

By the time someone has a 1000 dollar marker they should be expected to exercise restraint when needed. You also don't see them wailing on rec kids as often. With the A5 you get that kind of fire power on the field against people who are not accustomed to it.

You don't wanna mix volume shooters with rec players (I mean the relative newbs, not the hobbyists...) unless the volume shooters can exercise restraint. Numerous references have been made to the Martial Arts and I think they very much apply.

-rob

[wallace9111]

I just want to put up some facts.

First of all this was not walk on, these were private groups, these people have more of an idea of what was going on. I am not saying all or any of those players were quite experineced but no one in our group had rentals and all of them had played many many times before. 7 of our group is my team "Blizzard" so we knew what we were doing, this was rec time for us,just screwing around. This was not a situation were little kids that have no idea what was going on were getting lit up by guys with full auto.
Secondly they let us use them all day up until the end of the day.

In case it was not clear before about the walk ons were next to us playing on other fields, they saw the fight that was going on and came over to listen and some got involved.

[ezrunner]

I was directing that more in general, not at your instance.

The fact that you had contained groups means that you should be allowed to do anything safe.

We have people that like to switch on full auto, our general rule is that as long as EVERY player is ok with it, that's fine. Other wise it is a no-go.

My comments were to express the opinion that the A5 brings rate of fire abilities to a group of players where that may be inappropriate.

-rob

[wallace9111]

It is ok I was not being rude. I just want anyone else who is reading this to have some things to judge the situation on. I am trying to have this be as non baised as possible and prove that I am not just some ranting kid, and above all express my opinion seperatly about the situation.

[pbzmag]

Wallace, were you playing with Charter Communications group?

[Crimson_Turkey]

Tippmann has toned down the RT. The A-5 version is much less psychotic than the 98c one. At least you have to put some effort into pulling the trigger. If tuned correctly, if you put your finger in the right place on a 98c the trigger will pull itself.

[ezrunner]

I've shot both, I think a lot has to do with the setup.

The A5 this kid has at our field is insane. If I wanted a CO2 gun to shoot fast, this would be one of the top picks (following co2 on an RT w/ a stabilizer & expansion :) )

-rob

[sneakyhacker420]

the mistake that tippmann made was to allow the adjusting of how reactive you want the trigger... or atleast the higher reactivity, they should've limited it ALOT more

[rux21]

wallace9111,
I think I was there.... Were you the guy with the full helmet mask? (what kind of mask was that anyways?)

I don't see why that was such a big deal. You guys were a private group, and they let you use the gun up to that point. Which meant they OK'ed the gun. That just boggles me. I could understand if you were playing with the walk-on group... but a private group??? Come on...

[wallace9111]

no that was one of the guys on my team his name is marc, I was wearing the crappy yellow brass eagle jersey, shooting the mag. He was wearing the full hemlet and was using the a-5 they freaked out about so bad. Ya this was all private game stuff and they just decided in the end to freak out. I agree with you 100%!!!!

[wobbles82]

Originally posted by ezrunner: If I wanted a CO2 gun to shoot fast, this would be one of the top picks (following co2 on an RT w/ a stabilizer & expansion )


Wait you said RT like the marker I hope you meant like a Tippmann or something, if you meant a mag you cant run c02 through that IT WASNT MEANT TO BE DONE! Just claryifying

[wallace9111]

He was definetly talking about a tippman

[EnderWigginPballin]

the reason we have problems like this is because people aren't educated enough. If you look around at the online paintball community, you'll see that 90% of us have a decent amount of technical knowledge about markers. Most of the people who post online often at least recognize that cockers don't shoot farther/more accurately, there is no actual "best" gun, etc...

The stupid myths that we know aren't true are still believed by probably the majority of the paintball commnity. I hear the REFS at my field still say that cockers shoot farther. Or they say that my Mag won't be as accurate, just because it's a Mag. (nevermind the barrel)

the new barrel kits have probably done more to kill the myths about accuracy than every article ever written about the subject.

People don't care what science says, because their friend's cousin's uncle's son once shot a bottlecap at 300 feet with his cocker, that he was running on 12 gram cylinders. (or some other rediculous feat)

that being said, if a marker is meant to be fired semi-automatically, and it is being adjusted so that it fires automatically, then that marker is broken, and needs to be fixed by a good tech. If a marker is tested by the referees at the beginning of the day and declared legal, unless the owner changed its settings, then the marker shouldn't ever be considered illegal any time during that day.

[pbzmag]

Ok guys, I emailed the owner of Tombstone, Leon, and he said that they are ok as long as the reactivity is low. In other words, no trigger bounce. Sounds like he's using the NPPL rules for his field. Others that are banned are Hyper modes, full-auto, and anything that is capable of firing more than once per trigger pull.

[rtslave]

You know when nppl came out with their rules there was a big discussion on this type of thing and I never added my $.02. I personnaly think this is clearly black and white, if you mod. your marker to the point you can't release your finger and stop the shots then it should be banned from the field, unlike rt's there are people who slide into a bunker and their marker starts firing away uncontrolably now thats unsafe.

[ezrunner]

I was talking about an RT valved Mag.

I was being sarcastic. I don't shoot CO2 on anything that isn't blow back.

Notice I said I'd have a palmer stabilizer and an expansion chamber? You'd also need a fusion reactor to keep the co2 from being liquid in an rt valve.

I was joking but I did mean mag :)

I've been around for a while and remember seeing my first "RT", as in single trigger and it was a really fast gun to have. Even then I never saw someone put co2 on it.

-rob

[cphilip]

Originally posted by pbzmag
Ok guys, I emailed the owner of Tombstone, Leon, and he said that they are ok as long as the reactivity is low. In other words, no trigger bounce. Sounds like he's using the NPPL rules for his field. Others that are banned are Hyper modes, full-auto, and anything that is capable of firing more than once per trigger pull.

Those all sound reasonable to me. And I hope he is checking ALL markers for this. And I suspect he is indeed and so thats fair enough. I do not blame him realy. Sounds like a safe thing to do.

[Python14]

I have a neato idea....

When you become a field owner, employee, referee, airsmith, etc, a little microchip is installed in your lower spine. It has a little microphone on it and whenever it hears you utter an ignorant statement, you get a mild shock. We could give a master controller to Tom because it seems most inaccuracies concern mags and he could zap the industry when it becomes necessary.

....the trigger bounce ruling is very acceptable. Being a ref, I can tell everyone now that I find it harder and harder to weed out fullauto guns from the field with everyone shooting 10-14 bps.