gutted valve

[tone]

i read somewhere that a guy had gutted his valve and i wanted to know how or why you would do this and what do you get out of doing this ... all i know is he did not have the reg pin in it. i could not find where i read this to ask him but just wanted to see if anyone knew about this.

[xen_100]

well somepeople think that the air valve reg is not as consistant as the reg on thier tank (IE: geddon, maxflo, etc) so they defeat the reg in the gun.

there was a guy here that made his out valve, didn't have teh reg section on it. just the on/off and the powertube. it looked really cool.

[tone]

so could you just take out the reg pin and run say a vert reg and use the back section as a voulmizer? would it help the gun ?

[xen_100]

you can do that yes.........there are NO benfits to it though. the air valve is a very high flowing reg to begin with.

like I said, some people THINK it helps. it is really just a bandaid for someone that doesn't know how to fix thier gun.

[tone]

but wouldn't the extra volume help?

[xen_100]

help what? a stock classic valve will shoot 13-16 BPS without shootdown and an RT will shoot 26.

the design doesn't need help.

[tone]

well why would you put a volumeizer on any of the many guns that they make them for ?

[xen_100]

well if you are talking about poppet type valved guns(spyder, cocker, imp, bushy, etc), those do alot of good. with those a hammer hits the valve and opens it for a small mount of time. during that time air must go from one side of the valve to the other very fast. if the air is not readily available for each shot, then your reg and airsystem have to supply it. that is too slow and you will see shootdown. the air has to be right there ready to go, if has to come from the airsystem it will be too late, the valve will already be closed by the time it gets there.. so with those, if you store more air just behind the valve, you dont have to worry as much about the airsystem working as hard (to an extent) ever seen a minicocker? they almost always have an LP chamber on them because of the smaller valve chamber. that is the reason.

with a mag, the air is already stored before each shot in an LP chamber. (this is the chamber past the on/off) so the air is already stored, storing more air behind the reg in the valve (or in a reg on the ASA if you gut the AIR reg) is useless. do you remember the magic box from smartparts? it was an LP chamber outside the AIR valve. did nothing for the gun.

does that explain it more?

[tone]

well how does a palmer reg before the AIr reg help with shootdown and consitsansy?

[xen_100]

it doesn't. if you are using an HPA tank (recommend with any mag) all it does is hurt performance. that would be a triple reg setup and it will starve the AIR valve for air and it wont improve a thing.

if you are running co2 on your mag, the sideline stabe does a good job of stopping co2 spikes and liquid from getting into the gun. but that is the only reason to use a secondary reg on a mag, co2 use. but as I mentioned, co2 on a mag pretty much sucks.

[tone]

i know it helps i have seen the diff. with and with out.

[xen_100]

believe what you like......ask anybody here if putting a third reg into the mix with a mag is a good idea. I bet 99% of them say no.

if you need a secondary reg on your nitro system, then your nitro system or a fualty AIR valve is the problem. like I said, bandaid. you are fixing a problem by not fixing it.

[sniper1rfa]

the only benifit would be wieght. however, beacause you cannot remove enough from the regulator to offset the wieght gain from the new secondary regulator you would have to use, you wouldnt see any difference. the only way to make it useful is to remove the regulator half entirely and just make a cap to replace it. my gun and nicads gun are both like this. mine has a cap, his has a custom aluminum valve which he made himself. Niether have any of the regulator, including the housing.


unless you have the capacity to make a cap to replace the regulator, you will see NO benifit from gutting your regulator.

[Koosh]

One more benefit I would (possibly) see from the gutted reg is that it wouldn't freeze up with co2. I was wondering that myself, I use a Sideline stab and anti-syphen tank on my gun, but during a long string I still noticed the gun froze up on me.

What exactly freezes when the gun does that? Is it the reg part or On/Off that ceases to function? If it is the Reg, then by gutting the reg would that solve the problem? (Running off only the stabilizer, which as we all know is a great reg to use...)

[xen_100]

actually all of the above......the reg seat can freeze causing it to stop sealing, the on/off o-ring that the on/off seats into can freeze and stop sealing, the powertube o-ring can freeze and stop sealing......it depends what the gun is doing and where it is leaking. that is why co2 is not the best gas for mags.

so even in that scenario, gutting the reg wont do much for ya. :)

[Koosh]

But if all it takes is removing the reg seat and piston, wouldn't it be easy to try? even if it offers no performance gain, and I have a spare o-ring kit (they need replacing anyway), would I have nothing to loose by doing this? but I would have to turn my stabilizer all the way down... then adjust it up to speed, since I won't have an AIR anymore... I usually just keep the stab as far out as possible...

[xen_100]

it wont damage anything, if that is what you mean.

dont take out the reg piston though, or the back half of the valve will open to atmosphere ;)

just the seat and the pin.

[Butterfingers]

all you do is remove the reg seat and pin. Removing the piston will result in a massive leak that will vent your tank in 4.6 seconds flat.

I did this once it only helps if you are using co2.

[Koosh]

I know not to remove the piston (I'm not THAT stupid ;))

But this is something I'll try in a week or two when I have access to a chrono again... until then I'm not going to be messing with it.... much...

Man, I NEED to tinker! maybe I should just buy a cocker...

[xen_100]

Originally posted by TheFlamingKoosh
But if all it takes is removing the reg seat and piston, wouldn't it be ea....................

must have been a typo? ;)

[Koosh]

actually yes it was. I was thinking the piston was the reg pin (you know, the one that looks like a german hand grenade!)... I got the terminology mixed up, but at least I knew what I was saying...:p :D

[Jaymz]

didnt read all the replied but im currently working on taking off the back regulator part, capping it off, cutting the rail, and sticking on an inline regulator.

[sniper1rfa]

jaymz, that is indeed the way to go... :D