CPX shut down?

[FordPrefect]

I was over at my friend's house tonight, and he is a ref at CPX. He got a phone call from one of his co-workers there, and he said they were all on strike. Here's what he told me.

Brass Eagle is a huge sponsor of CPX (for people that didn't know). Apparently BE found a way to get past that and they were about to take the park from Forrest(the guy that owns it). They(BE) kicked Forrest out, and now everyone that worked at CPX is on strike. They should be able to get BE to negotiate, because they have $200,000+ in private games reserved for the next month.

All the refs are saying they will NOT work without Forrest in the picture.

[fire1811]

not sure if its true or not but this has been in the
works for quite some time.
you should have seen this coming a mile away

[spantol]

I've been hearing rumors of this coming for quite some time, as well.

It's far from perfect, but I'm rather fond of that place. If this is indeed the case, is there anything the public can do to show support?

[WARPED1]

Another reason BE sux, everything they touch turns to crap.

[Cliffio]

actually thats not true, you have never been to CPX if you think that, this place is amazing sure it sucks that the guy is getting the outs, but thats the way it goes

[damageinc54]

Is this why the Challenge Cup got pushed back? This move by BE really comes as no surprise to me. Does BE dislike the way Forest runs CPX? What is the motive behind BE's move?

[fire1811]

well since BE upped most of the money for cpx
it is and always has been there field.
as for the refs going on strike
well you get paid peanuts how hard do you think it will be to find other ppl to ref? not very
most of the refs there never even heard of forests name until they started there.

[shartley]

This is what happens to many business that have “sponsors” that make up the majority of operating/startup costs (IE Investors). And the original major investors do end up taking over given time, unless the “Owner” can buy them off or pay off their initial investment. Sadly, that is how the business world works much of the time.

As for $200,000+ in scheduled private games for next month… I would like to see actual facts on that. Given a 30 day month, to make $200,000 on private games alone, they would have to have at least 4 private games EVERY DAY (to include Saturday and Sunday), at $1,666.66 per game. Can it be done? Sure, but likely? Again, I would like to see hard facts to back that up…..

This is not saying they will not do well, but $200,000+ in SCHEDULED Private games? That is a bit much for me to believe.

And yes, Refs are not hard to come by. BE could increase the REF pay even just a little and get more Refs than they could ever use.

[314159]

cpx has a lot of private games and 200k a month sounds reasonable for them. a private game is just about the only way to play any fields out of their 30 something besides bedlam and armageddon.

maby a change in managment is for the better:
if you have a tournament at cpx, you have to pay cpx to sell water at the tournament fields which are located about 1/4 mile away from the consessions area. which they have 1 serving window at, with a slow turnaround time. which they do not sell water at.... and their water fountain, and about half of their vending machines are out of service.

they will let a co2 gun on a field that is shooting at 360 fps, that someone shoots down for about a minute, but will not allow a gun on the field that shoots 281, 282, 279 that chronos in at 270 at the target range.

whenever they change paint schemes, they will not let you use their field paint, that you bought from them the week before, on the field.

the refs going around, and cleaning up, throw out your half full drinks.

being forced to wait 10 minutes after a game is over, to take a shuttle bus, so you do not get lost on the way back, and the staging area is in view.

the turnaround time for 2 games is about 2 hours (except bedlam and armageddon)

finding rusty metal, broken glass bottles, and used condoms around the place does not contribute to the atmosphere.... but the rusty rebar and metal sticking out of the obsticales in armageddon does ;)

the cpx store also sold me a used stolen automag.

maby be will do a better job of running the place.

[deathstalker]

Sam, CPX gets BIG crowds there with several hundred a day on the weekends. The large number of private games on a Saturday and Sunday can easily make up for the lack of games during the week. It's possible the numbers are a bit skewed (no offense, but they ARE coming from a ref and I don't think I've seen too many employees there who are of legal drinking age:)), but I wouldn't be surprised if the real number is close.

Without a union, striking refs would most likely just be laid off. If I ran a public company like BE, I wouldn't think twice about canning them all and hiring new ones.

[shartley]

Yes, I am sure they pull in good numbers. I was not doubting that. ;)

[agdemagman69]

Cpx has its pros and cons...

Pros: Good fields
CONS:
-100$ for a case of horrible horrible horrible paint. I had some paint from there that was breaking from a 5 inch drop consistently...
-Wait times for fields is like 2 hours
-they dont know how to run a scenario game
-pro shop sux
-rental guns consistently break down
-I could go on and on and on....

Forest is a good man, but i would love to see an improved cpx... maybe some good paint

[Gambit1106]

Well for CPX mabey it will be a good change. Forrest is a good guy and have talked with him on many occasions. I just have my own little hate of CPX when I broke my ankle on arrmeggedon and all they did was stop the game to get me off the field and then keep going. I had to have to friends help me hop back to the picinc tables but they were kind enough to let them pull my truck up to a point so all I had to hop was about 200ft. :rolleyes:

Mabey thing will get better we will see.

[Thordic]

You forgot:


Cons: Double charge you for paint and then refuse to give you a refund.


They charged me $320 for $160 worth of paint, which I didn't notice until I got my bank statement a month later and they wouldn't refund the money.

[wyn1370]

Originally posted by Thordic
You forgot:


Cons: Double charge you for paint and then refuse to give you a refund.


They charged me $320 for $160 worth of paint, which I didn't notice until I got my bank statement a month later and they wouldn't refund the money.
Did you ever try disputing that with your bank? CPX wouldn't have two signed receipts to back it and get the money taken back from them.

[fire1811]

another con is that they try to host a big
tourney and they only fill to 3000psi and
the line is all they way to the racetrack :rolleyes:

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by fire1811
another con is that they try to host a big
tourney and they only fill to 3000psi and
the line is all they way to the racetrack :rolleyes: Friends of mine said they never got over like 2300 on fills as well.

*EDIT* I meant at Shatnerball as well.

[Thordic]

3000 psi? At shatnerball we were lucky to hit 2000.

And Wyn, I didn't think of that one... probably too late now. :/ I wrote that money off as a lesson in dealing with CPX months back.

[wyn1370]

Originally posted by Thordic
3000 psi? At shatnerball we were lucky to hit 2000.

And Wyn, I didn't think of that one... probably too late now. :/ I wrote that money off as a lesson in dealing with CPX months back.
I'm not sure what the time limit is, but for $160 it might be worth a call.

They had 2500-3000 out by the tourney fields, but by the building it was way less. Not to mention that 3 of the five lines where down most of the day.

[JJBrookshire]

The following is excerpted from a Brass Eagle Press Release from 1999:

"Rogers, AR, November 3, 1999 – Brass Eagle Inc. (Nasdaq: XTRM) the worldwide leader in the manufacturing, marketing and distribution of paintball products, today announced that it has signed a definitive agreement with Forest Brown and Anderson Humphreys to develop Challenge Park Xtreme, an extreme sports and entertainment complex that includes nine paintball fields, a BMX track, an in-line skating rink, skateboarding ramps and mountain biking trails. Located on 154 acres on the Des Plaines River in Joliet, Illinois, Challenge Park Xtreme is scheduled to open in September 2000. Under the terms of the agreement, Brass Eagle will own the majority of a newly formed Limited Liability Company through its subsidiary, Brass Eagle Challenge Park, Inc. The deal is expected to be accretive to earnings beginning in fiscal 2001.

Forest Brown, who operates an existing Challenge Park in Joliet -- and is credited as one of the most successful paintball park operators in the world -- will close that location to join Brass Eagle in developing the new facility. The Forest Brown park recorded between 30,000 and 40,000 participants in 1998. In order to ensure a seamless transition for those patrons, the Forest Brown facility will close simultaneously with the grand opening of the new Challenge Park Xtreme in September 2000. Anderson Humphreys, recognized as one of the premier operators in the industry, has been running a Challenge Park in Memphis, Tennessee since 1994."

As you can see Brass Eagle is way more than a "sponsor" of CPX.

[Natrix]

I go to CPX every weekend, of 10 people on our team, 4 work there, One of them is a manager, and a remaining 5 play there every weekend. This is the first time I've heard of this.

Anyway, BE basically runs that place as it is, and I wouldn't doubt it if forrest was leaving it to them. He did appear to be entertaining some people, seeing as he was reffing/escorting some people last weekend.

I doubt they're on strike over a change in ownership, though forrest is awesome and worth fighting for, to some people it may not be worth losing their jobs

I hope their not on strike because I was just told we have practice out there this weekend

[Hucklbry]

CPX does have some really nice fields, but I have to agree that there are too many cons to list. IMO it is not worth it to pay for bad paint, long waits between games, long walks to/form fields, 2000# air fills. Being that I just got back into the sport, I am still trying other fields in the area. I really enjoyed myself at Badlandz. Country Club is nice just for the fact that it is indoor, abit small though. I am going to check out Realms of Ruin this weekend. Hope to see some of you there.

[Natrix]

Yeah I got an email from one of my teammates, and they're striking on saturday. I'm gonna go because I HATE BE. I'll admit there are a lot of cons at that place, but the prices are good (except in the pro-shop), as is all day air, even if it's only 2000psi

Fox has good woods, and tournament fields, and it's BYOP to practices. Badlandz is anouther good field, but Country Club is not my cup of tea (bad refs, high prices, BIG mess)I heard Realms of Ruin is good though, as it should be, it's the old challenge park, the birthplace of my paintball obsession.

[Jerhew]

BE owns CPX...you should expect terrible paint..

BRASS EAGLE PAINT...i'd rather use used paintballs:P

[joez]

today, CPX and BE were brought to their knees.

as the sun arose, there were already refs outside the gates, ready to sit all day. i was there with them. we all lost our jobs today, but this is a blow from which BE will never recover.

BE has been giving the employees of CPX (not just ref's) hell for a while now. we were simply attempting to get back what BE has taken away, and it was not just for us. BE has recently raised admission prices, along with prices of barrel socks, which will become manditory at the end of the summer. they have taken away the free rental for referee's (Great for fresh refs just getting into the sport), made numerous promisses to which they cannot fofill, and continuously screw over both their employees and customers. and them letting forest go, telling him that"he was no longer an asset", that lit the fuse under us. we all knew who forest was, he was almost like a father to some of the emplyee's, and also the one trying to better the referee's position.

litereally hundreds of open players were turned away today, recieving "gold passes" for coming out to the park. night games were canceled, most private games were sent home, and yet, a lot of players actually suported us. CPX and BE stood to loose $60,000 this saturday, and stand to loose almost as much tommarow. they did not want to help us out. we just wanted the stuff back that they took away, and they couldnt do it.

yes, it was just a reffing job, and yes, they will just try to restaff the park, and yes, it will remain open, but with the massive understaffing, and all of the reschedualling of private groups, this is a blow that they will never recover.

management did not know what to do today, they wouldnt even come out to tell us that we were fired. every guide, most refs, and even trainee's are now gone.they have 6 refs. 6. just think about this next time you want to play. the cororate monster is dying.

[WARPED1]

Good, bout time BE suffered a little.............

[shartley]

No offense, but you think that will really hurt them in the long run? Employees are a dime a dozen, and so are players. As long as there are limited numbers of paintball fields, people will continue to go to the ones that are available to them.

This is just a bump in the road for BE, and you fail to see that.

The things they “took away”? Please list them. I will bet that most of it is “perks” and things they felt were not necessary. Are the Employees hourly and/or salaried staff? Do they have ANY benefits for working?

In a day that people are just happy to HAVE a job, I see too many things like this going on. Not getting everything you want does not mean you are getting screwed, being taken advantage of, etc. And I will be willing to bet that the FACTS behind new management are not what most think they are, or the decision was based on many things the average employee has no idea about.

When you, or any person, owns your own business, you will understand that sometimes decisions have to be made for the betterment of the business… in the long run. And sometimes these decisions are not easy, nor “feel good”.

Nope, you keep thinking BE will never recover from this little glitch. I know it makes you feel powerful and you beat the “corporate bad guy”…. But you didn’t. LOL Sure, it is popular to hate the “big guy”, and to hate “BE”, but they do a lot of good for the sport, and I am sure they will do quite well for CPX. And I hope all of you who stood your ground enjoy watching the show go past you….. POWER TO THE PEOPLE! :D

[fire1811]

dont get me wrong i have know forest for a long time
but shartley is 100% correct.

even IF BE did lose 60g (which another local field owner figured to only come out to 20g) do you really think BE
is even going to miss that? multimillion dollar company, pocketchange.
and remember there would be no CPX if it wasnt for BE
not hard facts but from a very reliable source is that
forest only owned 13% of CPX.
thats not even close to a majority shareholder.

yea it sucks that forest got the boot but all
the striking in the world isnt going to help.
about the only thing i think that could get forest back is
if CPX flopped big time now. and honestly this isnt going to happen. More refs will come. really how many of you refs even knew who Forest Brown was before you started working at CPX? not many i bet.

it sucks and im sure he appricates your support.
good luck

[Star_Base_CGI]

I worked for a big grocery store that was loosing money. First of all big companies all hide profits because they hate paying taxs. Any way they can find money they do. Than they pay the CEO tons of cash. One way in this instance you could hide money. Is sell yourself the paintballs at a loss. Ie sell BE paint for $60 a case and sell it back to yourself for $70 a case on bill. Brasse Eagle would still make money. I thought in the spplat attack Video the field looked nice but over grown. They couldnt find anyone to cut the grass or are they just that unbearable to work for. It looked like Grass was not cut at all and fields were not properly maintained.

I thought the owner, who had did set design made Bedlem look really nice. Now if hes gone so will all of that be and it will really suck.

LOL but I hate greedy companies so let them rot. Just because something looks nice doesnt mean it is or a good company or anything.

[joez]

yes, the fieldds are overgrown and unmaintained. the only one that gets any attention was bedlam.

is this a bump in the raod, yes, but it will take a long time for CPX to become profitable for them.

all we did was show more and more profitts, every month. and what did they thank us with? nothing. oh wait, once we got an e-mail to Forest thanking us.

there were some of us who worked there long enough to see all the changes, and see this park continually go down hill. the paint, for one, i can remember when we sold diablo and PMI prmium, for the same price as this crap they sell now. the BE paint is a joke. they are selling the "premium" paint for $100 a case, and it is from before shatner. their "winter" paint, was summer paint, it said summer right on the box.

like i said, profitts have been up for a while, they overbook priavate games to the point where that is where all the refs are used. this is why open games suffer. the man who replaced forest, belives that open games, along with weekday play, and tourney's, are all loosers. just like night games. if it was up to them, the park would be open friday through sunday and only private games. well, right now they have to reschedual more than 50 private games (and thats just this weekend and next), and they are unable to accept new ones for a long time, as they are booked for a long time.

now shartley, yes, most of everything they took away were perks of the job, but like i said, they are trying to screw the players too. with how high the proffits were, what did they do, raised their already high enty fee. they got a shipment of cheaper made barrel socks, and they raised the price on those. for us, we do not get time and a half for working hollidays, we no longer get free rental, nor free entry. discount on paint, nope, not anymore. raising costs of the uniforms and safety equipment we have to buy (osha states that required safety eqipment must be refunded), get me tools to work on my shed, nope, i had to buy my own. food, we have to buy theirs for what you people know is highway robbery. we no longer get free water (in a cup), and their was no full time employees, even when we work there full time. just another way for them to get around benefits, and more perks.

and just one more tidbit of info, there was only one park to ever last a decent ammount of time, and that was the old challenge park. and that was under forest, not BE.

[shartley]

Hold on! You mean to tell me that the park has been going downhill for quite some time? And it was under other than BE management?

I don’t intend to talk bad about the prior management, and am NOT doing so… but before folks want to BASH BE for changing management they need to do some honest self reflecting on the issue. Maybe part of the reason they ARE doing what they are is because of the issues even verified by those who support the prior management?

And it is also funny how even those who support the outgoing management claim things have been going downhill for a while YET claim profits are up. This is quite a strange thing.

Also, if private games fill up all the time, honestly, that is what I would book as well. Fields are in business to make MONEY. LOL

Now as for the things “lost” to employees…. Give me a break. “Perks” are not a mandatory part of ANY job. My Wife has to buy or bring her own food to work too. Also, when I worked in the Auto Industry, I too had to buy my own safety equipment, tools, etc. My Wife has to buy appropriate clothing for her job, NO reimbursements. My oldest daughter has to buy her own uniform for HER job too… no reimbursements. My gosh, welcome to the REAL WORLD.

Far too long people in or associated with the paintball world have lived in their own parallel universe. They have done things that any other business would have gone out of business doing. Their employees would be fired from “normal” jobs. ETC. But corporate involvement is a BAD thing, right? And even more so from a company that MAKES A PROFIT. Nope, they don’t know what they are doing….

I don’t mean to be harsh, but please look at things realistically. I understand that folks like Forest, I am sure he is a wonderful guy and has done great things. But even by the admittance of the last post, there are things that I would have fired him for, or at least stepped in and done some serious “guidance” with. You can’t have it both ways… was the park going downhill, or was it brining in profits? Was it getting money hand over fist and bringing in loads of business via private games (as was stated by those who support outgoing management), or were they overbooking and causing major problems? I am confused……

(Added: I have a client who has had her Paintball Park going STRONG for 17 years. And it wasn’t run by Forest. ;) My point is that just because BE takes over, it may not fall apart… I would actually bet the opposite.)

Sorry, you can’t use the same points as a plus AND a minus. You also can’t claim nothing was wrong and then point out that things were going downhill.

[Oddball]

So does anyone know how this effect the CPSA? It always seemed liked Forrest himself ran it and it had little to do directly with CPX besides having two of the events there.
I never have played at CPX for open games, only tourys so I realy can't comment on the fields, prices, ect. I do feel that refs should get some perks. Things like free entree to play, discount on paint, and to be able to bring outside food in (paper bag lunch or fast food). Every job I have had gave me so perks, even if "higher management" didn't think the workers should. Fast food jobs = free food at least when working, thats just the way it is 80% of the time. At Paintball Sams where I ref, Nikki (the owner) gives free entree to the refs, cheaper paint then even membership prices, and if need be free rental if i want to play a quick game and didn't bring all my equip. Free air, and on busy days she often buys Arby's for the staff.
Reffing jobs are almost always done more or less for fun, ppl that ref usally never really need the money they get, it is "beer money" at best. Perks need to given in order to get the amount of good, realiable refs needed.

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by joez


and just one more tidbit of info, there was only one park to ever last a decent ammount of time, and that was the old challenge park. and that was under forest, not BE. SC Village, Corona Ca
Skirmish, Jim Thorpe Pa
Top Gun , NJ spring to mind as being open longer.:rolleyes:

[314159]

Originally posted by shartley
And it is also funny how even those who support the outgoing management claim things have been going downhill for a while YET claim profits are up. This is quite a strange thing.

My Wife has to buy or bring her own food to work too

I don’t mean to be harsh, but please look at things realistically. I understand that folks like Forest, I am sure he is a wonderful guy and has done great things. But even by the admittance of the last post, there are things that I would have fired him for, or at least stepped in and done some serious “guidance” with. You can’t have in profits? Was it getting money hand over fist and bringing in loads of business via private games (as was stated by those who support outgoing management), or were they overbooking and causing major problems? I am confused……


the reason that things were going downhill, and profits were going up, is because of the new people they attract. after a couple times, they stop going to cpx, but as long as they keep new people comming in, buisness is good.

it sounds like you can't bring your own food to cpx if you work there.

Forest has always done his best to set things right, i am under the impression, that be has been working around him for a while, and be's choices have been the causes of most of the problems. (be worked around forest to mess up shatnerball)

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by 314159


(be worked around forest to mess up shatnerball) Why Shat Spplat 2 is at EMR, in pennsylvania this time...........

[puckmaster]

Originally posted by shartley

And it is also funny how even those who support the outgoing management claim things have been going downhill for a while YET claim profits are up. This is quite a strange thing.



When things are going "down hill", it doesnt always mean financialy. The last post before yours gave reasons why the field was going down hill. One of the reasons was because they used to sell PMI Premium and diablo for the same price they sell they crap paint now days for. I dont know about you, but i would rather spend $100 a case on PMI Premium, than $100 for Brass Eagle paint. There also raising entrance fees and such. A field doesnt have to be high quality in order to make a gigantic profit.

Give me a break. “Perks” are not a mandatory part of ANY job. My Wife has to buy or bring her own food to work too. Also, when I worked in the Auto Industry, I too had to buy my own safety equipment, tools, etc. My Wife has to buy appropriate clothing for her job, NO reimbursements. My oldest daughter has to buy her own uniform for HER job too… no reimbursements. My gosh, welcome to the REAL WORLD.

raising costs of the uniforms and safety equipment we have to buy (osha states that required safety eqipment must be refunded),

All i'm saying is that they are supposed to be refunded for the required safty equipment, and the were NOT. There called benefits. I'm sure you know all about them. Some jobs have hella nice benefits(such as at my local field, we play for free, Main emplyees get a free cell phone, and if you work 100 hours total of reffing or working inside the store area, you get a free bushmaster.)

Also, what i dont understand is why they can just kick out a guy that owns part of the company. Did they buy him out or what? Lets say that the park cost $1,000,000 to get started. Since a previous post said he owned 10% of the company, he would have put in $114942. I'm sure he had other sponsors to get the field started, but that doesnt seem right just to boot a guy he had that much put into it.(I now he didnt put that much in, but if the company was worth 1,000,000, he would have $114,942.)

[joez]

i didnt want to use names, so we will call him hank. "hank" was brought in by be to help spending problems at the park. forest is part owner and also an EMPLOYEE at the park. hank was the reason we never got anything, he is the reason that BE paint was brought in, among numerous other things. when forest was fired, hank was the man to take his place. and what do you know, they took away even more of our perks.

the cpsa and all other events were booked to forest, not the park. i am going to talk to him again tommarow and will be able to answer how it affects the cpsa later.

when did you work in the auto industry, shartly? because BY LAW they are supposed to either supply or reimburse you for REQUIRED safety equipment. i am not sure how i was supposed to ref without googles, maybee you can tell me shartley. and if you really want, i will get the exact sheet we gave them to put on here, so you can see that we were not just out there to better ourselves.

and warped1, sorry about the confussion, but i was tired when i typed this, i meant arround here, the chi-town area. i know fox has been arround for ever, but forest successfully ran a paintball park for 18 years.

[shartley]

Originally posted by joez
when did you work in the auto industry, shartly? because BY LAW they are supposed to either supply or reimburse you for REQUIRED safety equipment. i am not sure how i was supposed to ref without googles, maybee you can tell me shartley. and if you really want, i will get the exact sheet we gave them to put on here, so you can see that we were not just out there to better ourselves.

It was a good many years ago. And I had to purchase my own safety boots. The company provided X amount and you could choose to go over that at your own expense (as I not think about it).

If they did not pay you for your equipment I would say that it was YOUR fault for not MAKING them. It is not “right” that they didn’t provide it for you, or reimburse you for it, BUT you can’t sit back and complain about if you didn’t REPORT THEM. If you know about the LAW then you should also know the number to report violations of it. ;)

Like I tell my daughter (and have even told my wife), if you know your employer is doing something wrong, and even more so if it is against the law, and you LET THEM, you can’t complain about it. It’s pretty simple in my book.

All other issues are simply “would be nice” issues, but not “required” issues.

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by joez


and warped1, sorry about the confussion, but i was tired when i typed this, i meant arround here, the chi-town area. i know fox has been arround for ever, but forest successfully ran a paintball park for 18 years. Thats coo', I thought you meant in general, no harm no foul!:D

[LaW]

lol this guy talking about causing a blow to BE lol oh man :) thanks for some good entertainment lmao


If i lived in the area I would already be asking for a job there since I can't find one around here.

[WARPED1]

Yeah, its really won't do much to BE, but its nice to see people taking a stand! I'd just quit and find another job.

[Natrix]

From what I understand, the Challenge Cup is not going to be at CPX. I guess they just don't want anything from Forrest. In the past they used to have it at the Joliet Stadium, home of the Will County Buccaneers (Minor League Football Team), it'd be baddass if they had it there.

Also, I heard that Forrest was trying to get rid of "Hank", and Hank side-swiped him, and gave him the boot.

Furthermore, I heard there were 40+ companies waiting for this to happen because of their issues with BE, they all dislike BE with extreme prejudice. Lawsuit anyone??

These are all here-say and rumors though. What I do know, the quality of CPX had been going down hill, even if profits were up. They stopped doing 4500 fills, and wouldn't buy a new booster. They raised admission. Sold Terrible paint for the same price as good paint. Added netting, and a second level to Bedlam, lowering the enjoyability of playing that field. Is this BE's fault I don't know.

But it is my personal opinion that BE is hurting the sport.

1) They sell Talons for $30 at wal-mart and don't give any form of eye protection with it. That's just dangerous, if they're going to sell paintball markers to the general public from general merchandise stores they should give eye protection with it.

2) The quality of Revolutions has diminished under the ownership of BE, breaking easily if hit hard. It's also rumored that Viewloader wants to break away from BE.

3) JT's quality also seems to have suffered a bit. Gloves falling apart easily (in my case anyway). It's also rumored that JT wants to break away from BE.

I've typed enough


P.S. Hank = Ray :p

[nerobro]

This BE buying the industry thing has the feel of AMF buying harley davidson... Just wait. VL, JT, :-) they'll break away again and will once again make good equipment.

did anyone else notice that the new 9 volt hopper from VL has no sensor in it? that the servo motor just turns as soon as it's turned on? *grins* Little things like that.

well we shall see next weekend when CPX opens again. And see what's going on for them and reffing. As players, we can't change ownership of CPX. That I know for sure. But just maybe.. we can get them to crank up the service levels for us.

As a player.. CPX has always sucked. :-/

[shartley]

Originally posted by Natrix
From what I understand, the Challenge Cup is not going to be at CPX. I guess they just don't want anything from Forrest. In the past they used to have it at the Joliet Stadium, home of the Will County Buccaneers (Minor League Football Team), it'd be baddass if they had it there.

Also, I heard that Forrest was trying to get rid of "Hank", and Hank side-swiped him, and gave him the boot.

Furthermore, I heard there were 40+ companies waiting for this to happen because of their issues with BE, they all dislike BE with extreme prejudice. Lawsuit anyone??

These are all here-say and rumors though. What I do know, the quality of CPX had been going down hill, even if profits were up. They stopped doing 4500 fills, and wouldn't buy a new booster. They raised admission. Sold Terrible paint for the same price as good paint. Added netting, and a second level to Bedlam, lowering the enjoyability of playing that field. Is this BE's fault I don't know.

But it is my personal opinion that BE is hurting the sport.

1) They sell Talons for $30 at wal-mart and don't give any form of eye protection with it. That's just dangerous, if they're going to sell paintball markers to the general public from general merchandise stores they should give eye protection with it.

2) The quality of Revolutions has diminished under the ownership of BE, breaking easily if hit hard. It's also rumored that Viewloader wants to break away from BE.

3) JT's quality also seems to have suffered a bit. Gloves falling apart easily (in my case anyway). It's also rumored that JT wants to break away from BE.

I've typed enough


P.S. Hank = Ray :p
I see nothing in this post that would fall under anything other than total hearsay (as was stated), so why even post it? You have NO idea how many roomers I hear that are totally off base. Most of which are started by someone overhearing part of what someone said, put their own spin on it and passed it along…. and the farther it gets from its source the more messed up it gets. Heck, anyone play the “pass the word” game? ;)

But one thing I will comment on is the comment that low level markers sold in Walmart (or similar stores) be sold with goggles… BS. Do you get eye protection with BB Guns you buy there? How about Pellet Guns? When you buy a weight bench, do you get a weight belt? So you get a safety briefing and any protection when you buy a knife? How about a shotgun?

Safety equipment is NOT the responsibility of the Paintball Marker Manufacturer. HOWEVER every place that sells Markers should be required to also sell all the safety equipment that goes with it. What?!?!? Walmart already does that? WHAT?!?!?! Every place that sells Paintball Markers ALREADY sell the safety equipment too? ;)

If I am a customer and want to buy JUST a Marker, I should not be forced to purchase goggles with it too…. even if it is a low end marker. But we have already had this discussion a while ago and it was shown then that this way of thinking is flawed then too.

(Added: Oh no! They ADDED netting! Shame on them1 ;) )

[spantol]

(Added: Oh no! They ADDED netting! Shame on them1 )

Heh. You've never played Bedlam, have you?

The netting Natrix is talking about serves as "walls" inside of the buildings. It's a huge nuisance, and does absolutely nothing for safety.

[shartley]

Originally posted by spantol


Heh. You've never played Bedlam, have you?

The netting Natrix is talking about serves as "walls" inside of the buildings. It's a huge nuisance, and does absolutely nothing for safety.
No, I have not played Bedlam. And why would that matter?

I thank you for clarifying on what he said, but folks need to remember that the whole WORLD reads these forums and not everyone knows everything about every paintball field. Maybe he should have kept this in mind and made sure that he explained it so that folks would not get the wrong idea? ;)

Now, I don’t know if anyone realizes this, but you don’t have to play at ANY field. ;) You as the consumer have the right to go wherever you want and play. Seems to me that issues are being brought up that can NOT be all BE’s fault. Seems like that facility has had some problems for some time and they were only getting worse. And that can NOT be all BE’s fault.

No, I have never been there myself. But I am well aware of what people are saying about the place, and from both sides.

I say see what BE is going to do before folks go off spouting their anti-BE crap. Who knows, they just might do alright. And they deserve that chance, just like any of us.

[Star_Base_CGI]

Kudos to you guys for making demands.

Make a list of demands and dont go back till you get them.

1. 40 hours a week for current employees.
2. Grounds maintainance to fill the 40s if they goto weekends to keep you part time. Equipment, trimmers and safety equipment.
3. $100 for safety equipment, goggles and ref shirts.
4. HMO health plan for injured employees.
5. Competitive Price point for Brass eagle paint. $60 a case. No price gouging on Buy in of paint. Throw out or give away all paint from Shatnerball.


Oh yeah and get it in writing.

[fire1811]

Added netting, and a second level to Bedlam, lowering the enjoyability of playing that field. Is this BE's fault I don't know.

actually this was all forests idea.
i was out at cpx before it even opened as the team i used to play on was sponsored from Challenge. anyway as we walked through there those where some of the things he said HE wanted to add in the future. a second floor and wall netting. just a little fyi ;)

[Tattoo13]

Originally posted by Star_Base_CGI
Kudos to you guys for making demands.

Make a list of demands and dont go back till you get them.

1. 40 hours a week for current employees.
2. Grounds maintainance to fill the 40s if they goto weekends to keep you part time. Equipment, trimmers and safety equipment.
3. $100 for safety equipment, goggles and ref shirts.
4. HMO health plan for injured employees.
5. Competitive Price point for Brass eagle paint. $60 a case. No price gouging on Buy in of paint. Throw out or give away all paint from Shatnerball.


Oh yeah and get it in writing.

That is all fine and dandy, and would be a great deal for the refs, and probably work well for the conditions at the feild.
It ain't gonna happen!
They are going on strike, they are going to be replaced, only belonging to a union protects you from that. They are unskilled labor, and in a job market such as this, it is easy to replace skilled employees, so yes CPX lost some money this weekend and this week, but all the employees will be replaced and they will go right on doing business as usual. It amazes me how many people think they have big leverage, when what they offer as employees is not much, and they have a job lots of people would love to work.
They are obviously making money how things are run now, and they are going to try and make more by changing the structure of things. Getting a bunch of full-time employees who are now going to expect benifits, and you have to pay umemployment and disability on, then dropping prices, and handing all the employees $100 to buy equiptment that you can make them buy anyway, is not the way to make more money.
I think it is sad that a field with such potential is ran like BE runs their other side of the business, ie: focus towards newbies, and dropping the quality of the experiance, but it is not going to change.

[fire1811]

oh and one other thing

in order for it to be considered a "Stike" you must be
employeed. ALL the refs that where involved in this
where fired. oops new jobbie time.

[nerobro]

They were employed at the time they went on strike. Teh fact they were fired becuase of it has no relevance on the situation.

Welcome to the pain of standing up for yourself. :-/ good luck guys.

[joez]

we were not just fired, we were banned too:D

75% of us knew that we were to be fired, the rest, like me, were putting in our 2 weeks and quitting anyways. they fired and banned 42 employees. we were not just doing this for us. it was for the players, and also future employees.

[fire1811]

man i drove by suday and i think it would have helped you
guys a little if you atleast had a sign or something out there. it looked like it was just a bunch of ppl sitting around chattin.

so are you guys going back out like everyweekend or just
this one?

oh well good luck

[joez]

yeah, we had signs saturday, but the kid who had them in his car didnt show up sunday.

but no, we are not doing this every weekend, we will be out there one more time saturday, and that should be it.

hey fire, was that you that was hanging out the window of the blazer yelling "we got 6 cases of paint to do your job"?

[shartley]

Originally posted by joez
we were not just fired, we were banned too:D

75% of us knew that we were to be fired, the rest, like me, were putting in our 2 weeks and quitting anyways. they fired and banned 42 employees. we were not just doing this for us. it was for the players, and also future employees.
I applaud your thinking you were doing it for players and future employees. Your heart was in the right place.

With that said, you just wasted your time in an exercise in futility, and unadulterated naiveté. The ONLY way it would have actually helped anyone is if you had a chance of changing something by your actions. And the honest truth is, you didn’t have a chance at all. You were fired and banned from the park while not causing a single thing to change. And this was perfectly predictable.

Wouldn’t it be a real pain if BE actually IMPROVED the park and you couldn’t get to use it because you wanted to stand your ground on issues that were less than ideal to begin with? ;)

[shartley]

Originally posted by joez
yeah, we had signs saturday, but the kid who had them in his car didnt show up sunday.

but no, we are not doing this every weekend, we will be out there one more time saturday, and that should be it.

hey fire, was that you that was hanging out the window of the blazer yelling "we got 6 cases of paint to do your job"?
If it was my business, I would call the police if you showed up with signs, or to cause a problem. If you were on the property, you could be arrested for trespassing, and if not but didn’t have a PERMIT to picket you would be asked to leave and receive a FINE.

[fire1811]

lol nah bro i own a real vehical, a chevy truck and a big one too :D

if i would have know you where there i would have stopped to meet ya. AO members are AO members :)

[joez]

If it was my business, I would call the police if you showed up with signs, or to cause a problem. If you were on the property, you could be arrested for trespassing, and if not but didn’t have a PERMIT to picket you would be asked to leave and receive a FINE.

actually, we have PERMISSION from the farm owner across the street from the park to park our cars in her driveway and use her property. we have yet to cross the property, and didnt i say we were banned. by being banned we cannot cross the property, and if we do, JPD gets called. we are not causing problems, or blocking the entrance. we have the right to a peacefull assembly.


and fire, if you have the truck i am thinking of, that thing was nice.

[fire1811]

its was a big black chevy 2500HD 2001
i reved er up a little tryin to catch up to a buddy of mine


and it was a rather peacefull "protest" they didnt even say a word to ppl coming in. that i heard or saw anyway

[Star_Base_CGI]

If I went to a park like CPX and I saw people protesting I wouldnt play there. Its going to hurt their sales. You guys should do it for at least a month because they arent going to be able to hire 42 people like that and they have the $200,000 in games.

By picketing your letting everyone know what jerks they are.

Dont listen to the people that say its useless. You could get hurt reffing and you guys deserve to be treated better. People think jobs like gerocery store or whatever are useless. Let them go hungry for a week. Most of them dont know what its like to work for a living anyway.

[Star_Base_CGI]

Go post annoying stuff to the people at CPX, on this website.

http://www.challengepark.com/feedback.asp

[joez]

thank you star_base, at least some people understand.

if anyone was planning on coming out to cpx this saturday, feel free to come up and talk to us, we will have our two grills out and will be grilling up some good food.

[shartley]

Yeah! Keep at it!

And then IF you actually affect their ability to make money, they can bust out their big guns… Lawyers! Say goodbye to what you think is your life now…. LOL You want to play THOSE games? Be my guest and keep us informed… I like a good laugh now and again. :D

[Skeletar]

Shartley, why are you taking this so personal? Why are you getting so into this problem?

[fire1811]

i really dont think hes taking it personal he is just
stating it from a different point of view.

and i cant really say he has posted anything i really disagree with.

just a different point of view is all

[fire1811]

oh and shartley i am now putting you on a time limit!
you have exactly 28 days to finish up your e/xmag grips
im waiting...........:D

[shartley]

Fire is correct, I am not taking it all that seriously. I am however pointing out that what folks think they did, and the effects of it has thus far only hurt THEM, and when push comes to shove, BE will not lose. People need to decide what is really important and what will do them good or harm.

Originally posted by fire1811
oh and shartley i am now putting you on a time limit!
you have exactly 28 days to finish up your e/xmag grips
im waiting...........:D
LOL Oh no!

Seriously, I would love nothing more than to be able to say they will be ready in 28 days. TRUST ME. But I can’t. I will however do my best to get them out as soon as possible without compromising quality.

My entire line of products has been requested for sale at one of NH’s largest Paintball Shops and Park/Pro Shop (separate locations). This means it is guaranteed sales and my barrel wraps (condoms/bags) have been specifically requested to be a rush order. I hope that lets you know how busy I am at this time… not even including the custom wooden grips I have to complete (6 sets at the moment). And that does not even count my REAL job! LOL

So, again, trust me…. I will get your grips designed and produced, and this year. ;) I think you will not be disappointed in any delays when you get your hands on them (all pun intended). :)

[demonguy8]

K a few comments...on econ


1. When the economy is in a recession (as it has been since 9/11) people are going to spend less, and all non-essential purchases will bear the brunt of the decreased spending (like paintball). This means less NEW players are going to be coming out and playing at the field meaning less money for the field. This also means they may not be able to afford to pay you guys anything extra. Owning and operating a field in todays world isnt the huge profit dream that everyone seems to think it is.

2. If a company knows your going to strike, and STILL fires 42 people: youre not going to change anything. CPX appears to be confident that you guys where NOT a necessity, and that you CAN BE replaced with minimal losses.

3. Things will change for the better eventually anyways. If a field isnt making customers happy, people will stop going there! The park will either lose enough money that it goes under, OR it will make the right changes and get fixed.

4.The Reason CPXs gets away with #3 is because it caters to the newbie recballer(like brasseagle does in general) these people either dont know any better, or if theyre like anyone I know that does recball, they are just wowed with the gimmick fields that cpx provides.IMHO this might be the smartest thing about that parks business plan. Parks in general make money off the recballers that go and play once or twice a year, not the tourny team coming and shooting $3 above cost cases of paint every weekend. Theyre simply catering to the people that are churning their profit

5. CPX might also take a hint from henry ford and raise their employee wages. Henry ford figured out that if he paid his workers 2x as much than the average that he would SAVE MONEY in the end because his workers would be: less likely to strike, work harder, and allow for an overall higher quality of worker (by experience, intelligence, or anything else that would inspire a person to ask for a higher starting wage.)

[Star_Base_CGI]

Yes I undestand what its like to work on my feet 8 hours a day feeding people and working in a 50,000 sqaure foot grocery store earning mini wage to pay for college.

In the end its the employees who care about the job enough to want to make things work out in the long run. CEOs always get a golden parachute and a full pension no matter what. SO they could care less about antying other than stuffing their face pouches at the hamster dish.

Everyone thats saying the job is so easy.c Try standing on your feet and working 8 hours. You come home so tired you just want to sleep and your family does'nt understand why.

It all comes back to the person with a comfy job, the lease car and the company cell phone. If you had to work one day. Really work like the rest of us, youd lose everything. The working person has to plan his life and work around it. We dont have the luxory of sitting for 8 hours day.

Something like what %75 of new companies fail and when the economy is bad, %60 file for bankrupcey. Better to make friends with your employees than stab them in the back.


Read that CPX. Better go file for chapter 7.

You think your loosing money now. Heh heh. The only money youve lose is the money youve paid yourselves while the emplyees sweated.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by fire1811
oh and shartley i am now putting you on a time limit!
you have exactly 28 days to finish up your e/xmag grips
im waiting...........:D

Oh no you don't! I was in line FIRST!:p ;) My X-Mag NEEDS wraps!;) :p

[deathstalker]

Originally posted by shartley
Seriously, I would love nothing more than to be able to say they will be ready in 28 days. TRUST ME. But I can’t. I will however do my best to get them out as soon as possible without compromising quality.

My entire line of products has been requested for sale at one of NH’s largest Paintball Shops and Park/Pro Shop (separate locations). This means it is guaranteed sales and my barrel wraps (condoms/bags) have been specifically requested to be a rush order. I hope that lets you know how busy I am at this time… not even including the custom wooden grips I have to complete (6 sets at the moment). And that does not even count my REAL job! LOL
Sam, your comments about your grips are quite appropriate, only because you show an understanding about priorities. What is the best way of spending your time? Making the grips and condoms for the big order. Many of the people in this thread don't understand BE's first and foremost priority is to generate REVENUE. It doesn't matter how it's done, it doesn't matter who gets hurt in the process, all that matters is the stockholders are happy.

One of my customers called me last week asking why they received a $9.00 invoice. Do you think I care? I'm the only rep in my region who has been able to sell anything this quarter and do you think I'm going to spend 45 minutes of my day worrying about why a customer owes nine freakin' dollars? I'm spending my time trying to sell training packages that cost tens of thousands of dollars. I am NOT going to waste a minute worrying about it.

The vast majority of paintball companies don't have to worry about their earnings per share; BE does and the person running the company is in danger of losing his job if he is not making decisions that will be helping that number. This is how difficult decisions are made in business and you can be sure that BE does not care about "striking" refs. Just as easily as the refs at CPX can be replaced, the Board can replace the CEO of BE.

And why did Henry Ford REALLY pay his employees more? So they'd be able to afford one of HIS cars. Genius!

[spantol]

Definitely--the lesson here is that no matter how much crap your employer gives you, bend over and take it. You can't win, so don't try.



Originally posted by shartley
Yeah! Keep at it!

And then IF you actually affect their ability to make money, they can bust out their big guns… Lawyers! Say goodbye to what you think is your life now…. LOL You want to play THOSE games? Be my guest and keep us informed… I like a good laugh now and again. :D

[demonguy8]

While giving enough money to hise workers and thus enabling them to afford his cars is ONE possible reason for doing such a thing it was NOT the important one..

When he raised the wage he got WAY more than enough potential workers to fill a limited number of slots.. Therefore he was able to pick the BEST workers out of that sample. With so many other potential workers, you could also be replaced for slacking off VERY EASILY. Everyone who was hired had a GREAT paying job and thus would want to keep it. Ford found that turnover rate fell, absenteeism Fell, and worker PRODUCTIVITY ROSE. In the end HIS PRODUCTION COSTS where LOWER in total WITH THE HIGHER WAGE than they where with the lower wage. The workers being able to buy the cars is just an added bonus and counted AFTER the production costs / production output where considered.

[fire1811]

LOL Oh no!

Seriously, I would love nothing more than to be able to say they will be ready in 28 days. TRUST ME. But I can’t. I will however do my best to get them out as soon as possible without compromising quality.

My entire line of products has been requested for sale at one of NH’s largest Paintball Shops and Park/Pro Shop (separate locations). This means it is guaranteed sales and my barrel wraps (condoms/bags) have been specifically requested to be a rush order. I hope that lets you know how busy I am at this time… not even including the custom wooden grips I have to complete (6 sets at the moment). And that does not even count my REAL job! LOL

So, again, trust me…. I will get your grips designed and produced, and this year. I think you will not be disappointed in any delays when you get your hands on them (all pun intended).

excuses excuses!!
25 days now :p

[shartley]

Originally posted by spantol
Definitely--the lesson here is that no matter how much crap your employer gives you, bend over and take it. You can't win, so don't try.
Hold on a minute… that is not what I was saying, and not by a long shot. I am all for employees standing up for their RIGHTS and what is required BY LAW. But over that, each person must pick their battles. I have personally told supervisors a few things that would make people go .. “DAMN! Did he just say that?!?!” and I have never lost a job over it.

There is a difference between taking crap, and getting what you deserve by law. It is as much an employees right to QUIT working for someone as it is an employers right to hire them (which is actually not as much of a right as most would think). If an employee does not like the work environment, perks, etc. but the employer didn’t break any laws, then they have ONE choice (minus being a part of a UNION!!!!) and that is to quit. Most of the time there are many others who are more than willing to step up and fill the position.

However, when it comes to an employer breaking laws, I say GO GET THEM! You don’t have to bend over and take it. And you can’t be fired for standing up for your RIGHTS BY LAW.

This is NOT what this thread is about though. And not by a long shot. It was about WANTS BY… well, just wants. LOL And when you decide to stand up, you have to do your research and see if there is even a chance of winning what you want. If not (as in THIS CASE) the whole thing is nothing more than people demonstrating their need to be rebels without a clue.

They would have better luck making a tunnel through the Rocky Mountains with their bare hands. And why? Because they don’t have a leg to stand on legally. The only issue that was mentioned that they COULD win on was the Safety Equipment reimbursement issue. And all they needed to do is make a simple phone call and THAT would have been taken care of.

The employees at that park can’t look at places like General Motors, and other large work environments, and see that THEY strike for things and don’t get fired, AND often times get things they want and think THEY can do it too. To do so is missing so many factors.

At some point people need to realize that there is a fine line between “standing strong” and being foolish. And once that line is crossed, you only hurt yourself. I applaud the employees standing up and being willing to lose their jobs over what they believe in… I truly do. But continued picketing and demonstrating will NOT change anything, and only makes the effort look foolish. The first stand was great, you made a statement. I would leave it at that.

As a man with a family to support, I know that having ANY job is a blessing. And often times people can’t be so choosey and have to take jobs with less than the perks they would like… or even the pay they would like. Principles and high standards don’t pay the electric bill, put food in your family’s mouths, or clothes on their backs. This is not saying people have to take “crap”, but they need to keep things in perspective.

[Natrix]

I agree whole-heartedly shartley, but the fact of the matter is the majority of those who work there are teenagers working minimum wage, who stand in the sun all day and get shot by newbies. They don't care about their jobs, and why should they, they're a part time referee at a paintball park.

I don't think this strike/walk-out was about their rights, that's not what they were fighting for. Things just got to the point where they collectively agreed they didn't want to work there anymore. They knew from the beginning that they were going to be fired, and they stood up just to make a point if anything.

It may have been a while since you last worked a bull**** job that is a dime a dozen. I work in a grocery store (bull**** job) and make $10/hour. If I didn't make $10/hour I would have left long ago just because of the stupidity of things that happen at that place. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to flip everyone off and swear at the top of my lungs, but restrain myself (most of the time) because of my decent pay.

We're also union and EVERY employee there agrees that the union is worthless, even the steward. All they do is take our money, then have a commitee to raise dues. I've had many grievances and reviewed the contract many times only to be told no by the union.

Don't get me wrong MOST unions are good, and necessary and we have to be greatful for them. But some are pointless.

My point is, they make next to nothing in frustrating job, and they lost their one pure thing in that work place (Forrest), they finally said that's enough and gave everyone the finger and left. It's that simple, yes it's a juvenile tantrum, but so what.

Being able to cuss out your boss is every American workers God given right!

Just 42 of them did it together

[shartley]

Originally posted by Natrix
I agree whole-heartedly shartley, but the fact of the matter is the majority of those who work there are teenagers working minimum wage, who stand in the sun all day and get shot by newbies. They don't care about their jobs, and why should they, they're a part time referee at a paintball park.

I don't think this strike/walk-out was about their rights, that's not what they were fighting for. Things just got to the point where they collectively agreed they didn't want to work there anymore. They knew from the beginning that they were going to be fired, and they stood up just to make a point if anything.

It may have been a while since you last worked a bull**** job that is a dime a dozen. I work in a grocery store (bull**** job) and make $10/hour. If I didn't make $10/hour I would have left long ago just because of the stupidity of things that happen at that place. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to flip everyone off and swear at the top of my lungs, but restrain myself (most of the time) because of my decent pay.

We're also union and EVERY employee there agrees that the union is worthless, even the steward. All they do is take our money, then have a commitee to raise dues. I've had many grievances and reviewed the contract many times only to be told no by the union.

Don't get me wrong MOST unions are good, and necessary and we have to be greatful for them. But some are pointless.

My point is, they make next to nothing in frustrating job, and they lost their one pure thing in that work place (Forrest), they finally said that's enough and gave everyone the finger and left. It's that simple, yes it's a juvenile tantrum, but so what.

Being able to cuss out your boss is every American workers God given right!

Just 42 of them did it together
LOL You see, we are not that far off in out opinion. My point is that any FURTHER actions on their point would not only be useless, but only make themselves look bad and could bring legal action if kept on too long. They had their day, get on with life. There are more important things to worry about. ;)

[Natrix]

Yeah, I could see sitting out front the first day, but the minute they tell me I'm fired I'm outta there, what's the point. The majority of hardcore paintballer's don't even think about buying brass eagle products (except JT, and Viewloader) so there really isn't a need to "boycott" BE. Most of us do already, well I do anyway.

[Bonez]

this is just a bump in the road for cpx from which they will recover in due time. however; people will remember this for a long time to come. players may and will go elsewhere to play. Whether its badlandz, fox paintball, or tri-city these other fields will benefit from this so called catastrophy. personally the only thing cpx has going for it is there theme fields. thier woods fields are horrible, reffing is not that great, and they have long wait times for the next game; plus 2000 psi fills. when BE realizes what the field is doing wrong and corrects the problems, CPX will be back to the way it used to be(long long ago). i dont see that even happening any time soon so my business will go to probably FOX.

[Skeletar]

Yay fox!

[warpfeedmod]

well I liked CPX. Despite the fact I'd play an 8 hour day and get in 6 games.

I used to play at the old challenge park, and let me tell you, it was possibly the best paintball experience I ever had. The people at the old CP generally cared for the sport and how it was played. They had great refs and we would get in 10 - 14 games in an 8 hour day. I never went away from that old park dissatisfied.

Perhaps Forrest (sp?) should go get that land back or purcahse some more and open the old CP :p

[demonguy8]

the old CP land was already purchased and reopened as the new field REALMS OF RUIN. Realms is a good field, altho they need more along the lines of a hyperball or some more airball... Theres too many woodsfields at the moment..

[Tyger]

http://www.challengepark.com/about_news.asp?id=229

They've given a public appology to the PLAYERS for the inconvinence.


Ray Dagnino, Challenge Park Xtreme's General Manager, stated "We were as surprised by the events as much as our customers. A group of employees were reluctant to perform their assigned duties as scheduled due to some unresolved job-related issues. Unfortunately, we were unaware of these issues and were not given the opportunity to discuss these with the employees before these actions were taken. The negative impact that those actions had on our loyal customers proved inexcusable and we apologize to all involved for this inconvenience."


Posted May 5.

Opinions?

-Tyger

[demonguy8]

typical damage control...

CPX is just making sure that any impact on business the "strike" had wouldnt permanantly affect their profit margin...The release makes the employees look like the *butts* for not trying to bring up the issues before (which id be willing to bet that it WAS brought up, not that I can say for sure since I wasnt one of the employees) and basically clears CPX of any potential wrongdoings in the PUBLICS MIND (not that they ever did anything legally wrong)... Added to the fact that the employees cant really pose rebuttal to a press release, things are quite completely summed up now.

The only thing that suprised me was that CPX thought that the "strike" would have a large enough impact to even bother with press release, but better to be safe than sorry i guess.

[Bonez]

I DONT THINK FOREST CAN OPEN ANOTHER PB PARK BECAUSE I AM FAIRLY SURE THAT HE HAD TO SIGN A NON DISCLOSURE STATEMENT THAT HE CANNOT OPEN ANOTHER PAINTBALL RELATED PARK OR EVEN STORE FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME. ITS STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE FOR ANY COMPANY OF BE SIZE TO DO. OTHERWISE WHAT WOULD STOP SOMEONE FROM LEARNING ALL ABOUT A BIG BUSINESS THEN TURN AROUND AND USE THAT KNOWLEDGE TO OPEN A BUSINESS THAT IS DIRECT COMPETITION. I THINK FOREST WILL SURVIVE. HE PROBABLY HAS SOMETHING ON THE SIDE(USED CARS)TO FALL BACK ON. MY QUESTION IS DID HIS SON(JUSTIN) LEAVE ALSO AND HIS COUSIN OR BROTHER(BUTCH) LEAVE WITH HIM.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Bonez
I DONT THINK FOREST CAN OPEN ANOTHER PB PARK BECAUSE I AM FAIRLY SURE THAT HE HAD TO SIGN A NON DISCLOSURE STATEMENT THAT HE CANNOT OPEN ANOTHER PAINTBALL RELATED PARK OR EVEN STORE FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME. ITS STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE FOR ANY COMPANY OF BE SIZE TO DO. OTHERWISE WHAT WOULD STOP SOMEONE FROM LEARNING ALL ABOUT A BIG BUSINESS THEN TURN AROUND AND USE THAT KNOWLEDGE TO OPEN A BUSINESS THAT IS DIRECT COMPETITION. I THINK FOREST WILL SURVIVE. HE PROBABLY HAS SOMETHING ON THE SIDE(USED CARS)TO FALL BACK ON. MY QUESTION IS DID HIS SON(JUSTIN) LEAVE ALSO AND HIS COUSIN OR BROTHER(BUTCH) LEAVE WITH HIM.
Non Competing…. Non disclosure would be to not tell anyone about something.

(Note: Typing in all caps is considered rude. It is also very hard to read. On a side note, I don’t know how anyone would WANT to type in all CAPS, or fail to notice that they ARE.)

[fire1811]

lol shartley you da man

and not sure about justin but im sure he probably left but i heard that butch is still there and dont plan on leaving.

[joez]

there are several people still there that really have to be. butch has a very good reason for needing this job at this time.

as far as i still know, just in is still an employee, but dont expect him there for much longer, if BE didnt already let him go. he wants no part of a company that fired his father.

[Star_Base_CGI]

It is never wrong to stand you for what you belive in. That what it is about. Stand up for yourself and try to make things better. Sit down and shup up, thats whay they do in CHina!

[demonguy8]

Not morally wrong to stand up for what you believe in, but not exactly the best overall choice when your stand has NO IMPACT on them but still carries consequences for you...

[Star_Base_CGI]

Originally posted by demonguy8
Not morally wrong to stand up for what you believe in, but not exactly the best overall choice when your stand has NO IMPACT on them but still carries consequences for you...


Dont count on it. Its still to early to tell.

[WARPED1]

Standing up for yourself is usually good, in this case it's a useless idea, unless the refs had a union of some sort officially.

[shockman]

There was a story in the Joliet herald-News a few days ago that interviewed Forrest Brown and he said he didn't think the park would be open 4 months from now. He said that it was beyond saving and that it would be impossible for it to stay open.

joez, good luck in the future. I think I remember playing with you. I was using the RT Pro with the blue warp. I've thought that CPX was bad the first time I was there with bad fills, bad paint, and some very rude people. The refs were very cool though, hopefully things work out well for you guys.

[shartley]

Originally posted by shockman
There was a story in the Joliet herald-News a few days ago that interviewed Forrest Brown and he said he didn't think the park would be open 4 months from now. He said that it was beyond saving and that it would be impossible for it to stay open.
No offense to Forrest, but that is a pretty bold statement that will come to haunt him (if anyone cares to call him on it). And why do I say this? Simple… I know of VERY poorly run fields that last YEARS. And the fact that there are more and more paintball players each and every day, the likelihood of ANY field with sufficient backing would close up for ANY reason (aside from someone getting KILLED while playing) in 4 months is not likely. And BE has enough money to operate that field at a LOSS for years. They will most likely not even take this first season into consideration when/if deciding to close the field.

And if this IS the case (that it is beyond saving) Forrest is partially responsible for that…. after all, he WAS running the place. No matter how many demands BE made on him while doing so, he still was the one making daily decisions. Some people would do well do ask themselves how their statements might reflect back on THEM when granting an interview. I did not read the article, but it would have been better if he just wished them the best and THEN if they had to close the park say something. Predictions (one way or the other) can far too often come back to haunt us……. ;)

[JJBrookshire]

It might be usefult to go to the following url http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/heraldnews/business/j14forest.htm to read the story without editorial comments or mis-quotes.

[shartley]

Thanks JJ… that puts quite a different spin on things. I would bet that the “truth” is someplace in between the two parties. And I would still put my money on the park still being around next year…. Even if it didn’t make a dime this season… which is highly unlikely.

[GT]

As for the long-term business prospects for Challenge Park Xtreme, Prudhomme acknowledged the park has not shown the financial results the company expected when it first opened, but, "It was a new venture for us."

The park is meeting its most recent business plan set out last fall, he said



hmm doesnt sound like BE was not the problem.


Brown said he also had no plans to sell his ownership interest in Challenge Park Xtreme: "The financial state of the park is such that no one would want it anyway."

riiigghhtt, I am willing to bet he maybe holding out for BE to offer him the right price.

my take on the article is that he may have wanted more for his share than BE thought it was worth. Why do I get the feelling that all the striking ref's were confused on what the real issue(s) maybe?

In other words, you are getting 'played' from both sides.

jb

[Star_Base_CGI]

Its never a waste of time to stand up for what you belive in.

"Our average customer is 16-years-old," he said. "The approach that's being taken to that customer is corporate America. And, kids don't like corporate America. They despise it."

Thats not true, 16 year olds are dumb kids. The ones that really hate corporate America are us 33 year olds and older who have been screwed by corporate America. You can only screw so many people and we get tired of it.

" Brown said Challenge Park Xtreme is cutting costs by reducing its staff of referees needed for paintball matches and raising revenues by increasing prices."

The grass needs to be cut ect. Your going to film a paintball event and have the grass 2 feet high and oevergrowth everywhere and piles of dirt. A 3 foot pile of dirt is not a bunker.

The only thing that looked nice about the park were the washable studio sets that Forest Brown help put up.

With that said. BE can bulldoze Bedlem and raise prices.

[starfox]

Shartley-
You need to find something else to do. You have never been to CPX, don't know anyone that worked there, and are only basing your narrow-pro-corporate opinions based on what you've "read" or "heard". Don't pretend to think that your opinions are based on anything but biased, hearsay.

If you took the time to piece the info together, you would see that BE was constantly interfering with Forest and the decisions at CPX. He fought them on a lot of bad decisions that they wanted to make, but, being only a minority owner, he was effectivly powerless.

They cut the staff to save money, while letting the field go to crap, I mean it has turned into a ghetto compared to what it was before BE brought in their "yes man" to screw things up. There weren't enough refs to run the players that they had so games were slow and things slowly went downhill, while Forest could only fight to no avail. There would be no CPX without Forest period. He just made the mistake of letting BE get involved and then steal it from him.

The refs strike did massively affect CPX. They lost tens of thousands of dollars over it and are still feeling the effects of it. BE is already planning to sell off part of the property (tournament complex)and I've heard from a reliable source that BE will close the doors if CPX isn't profitable in the next quarter. The ship is sinking because BE doesn't know the first thing about customer service orproviding quality.

Corporations are slowly learning you can only screw people over for so long before it effects them. BE is finding that out now as they are losing market share, shelf space in Walmart, and are being sued by RP Scherer for stealing the marbalizer ball. That corporate theft is going to cost them tens of millions of dollars.

BE is getting the karma they deserve. Stop speaking of things you know nothing of, or at least find out all of the facts before you look uninformed.

Shame on you for trying to squash the refs ideals for standing up for Forest. Maybe they lost their jobs and were banned sure, but they knew that going into it, but had the cajones to do what they thought was right. Thats more guts than most adults will ever experience. They deserve more respect than your mightier-than-thou corporate line.

[WARPED1]

Holy dead thread ressurection batman! LET IT GO!