Shatnerball 2 full auto? [Archive] - Automags.Org Online Forums

Jack & Coke

05-06-2003, 01:51 AM

Interesting point...

A lot has been argued about how full-auto is so dangerous and that NO insurance would allow it, yet EVERY BIG GAME (senario) I have read about in magazines, allow full-auto. Not to mention other strange homemade guns that have double and tripple barrels!

I would imagine at a scenario, there's quite a bit of paint flying in the air at any given time. Since they allow reactive triggers and full-auto, how many accidents have there been due to the "over-powering" nature of these "dangerous" guns?

I think there is a difference for woods ball, where bunkering moves are certainly less frequent than in Tournaments.

I'm curious... for those who have played in scenarios where you witnessed full-auto, was it really that much more dangerous than some kid dishing out 20 bps on his Timmy?

NJsyndicate

05-06-2003, 01:58 AM

[i]
I'm curious... for those who have played in scenarios where you witnessed full-auto, was it really that much more dangerous than some kid dishing out 20 bps on his Timmy? [/B]

That's kinda what I was gonna get at. I'm slow and can get 13-14 bps out of my LCD, most lower end guns on full auto can't shoot that fast or at bare minium match that. Then bring in your avg trigger walking psycho who can hit over 16 bps, and it can get ugly. Is there really a difference just b/c I have to pull my trigger instead of holding it down? The only difference I see is shooting on the move or bunkering someone where its harder to walk the trigger in those instances.

Carpecerevisi

05-06-2003, 03:34 AM

Trigger walking psycho...heh...thats me...12 pods a game easy...lol

manike

05-06-2003, 05:00 AM

They didn't allow FA at Shatnerball last year.

They don't allow FA at Long Island Big Game (although they do allow some multi barrel guns).

I believe the dangers of FA are not necessarily on the field... more in the safe zone and with accidental discharges.

booyah

05-06-2003, 08:28 AM

Every big game and senario at Hells Survivors in Pickney Michigan allows full auto.

HS insures themselves so they are all for it, and I have never heard of a full auto induced accident there.

Besides in Michigan Monster game two years ago (last time i went) there were over 4500 people there in the two days of the game, last year i heard over 5000 showed up to play, so there is so much paint flying i doubt full auto matters much.

Trunnion

05-06-2003, 08:34 AM

i played a local scenario game on Sunday, and i've played thre previous two put on by my local field. they've allowed full auto for all three games, and they're an insured field. to be honest, i've been shot at by full auto guns, and it's not really any better than semi. they just waste their paint more quickly. i've only seen it make a huge difference a couple times, and that was when we were gettin pressed pretty hard and the other team was pretty bunched up. i've seen people overshoot more often with semis than autos, though i can't say i blame them. i've seen alot of people on both teams refuse to call themselves out after the first hit. they complain when they get shot 4 or 5 times, yet they bring it on themselves.

Happily Ever After

05-06-2003, 09:17 AM

I've shot a full auto Tip 98, a modded board Angel and also a full auto Armotech rifle. The Angel Ripped pretty good, but with a bit of shootdown and quite alot of broken paint, even with a HaloB. I'd take a good semi anytime. Doing the typewriter walk on an Emag seems to put out as much or more paint than the full auto junk. Palmer's three barrel grinder is probably the most paintin'est machine I've ever seen, personally.

LittMag

05-06-2003, 09:41 AM

All it takes is 5 seconds to check the field's website

http://www.emrpaintball.com/safety.html

10. SEMI AUTOMATIC MODES OF FIRE ONLY:
No Full Auto's, Turbo's, or Round Bursts. 1 SHOT PER TRIGGER PULL.

cphilip

05-06-2003, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by booyah
Every big game and senario at Hells Survivors in Pickney Michigan allows full auto.

HS insures themselves so they are all for it, and I have never heard of a full auto induced accident there.

Unless they have a few million in escrow then they are just flat out stupid or just not insured and figure they have nothing to lose. And therefore if are seriously injured you are not going to recover your injuries and loss of quality of life. And that is his thought here is he realy doesn't care if you do cause he does not expect to lose enough by losing the business to care about insurance.

You lose two eyes there and you will be doomed to blindness forever and yes it will happen in the safe mask off areas. Even one eye lost could be the business lost right there. It would seem to be that they would only be encouraging this since they know they ARE NOT insured. And so could care less. But they could end up in jail too...

If something can be predicited to have a probablility of happening and you do nothing to prevent it...THEN IT IS NOT AN ACCIDENT. It's Negligence, plain and simple, and you better be insured against negligence too. Cause thats not only Civil liability but Criminal.

I would not play at this Field from what you told me. Hope it's not true.

datapimp69

05-06-2003, 01:27 PM

phil,

HS is my local field.. they do allow FA at the big games.

i have used it at them before, granted it was for 2 sec of play and that was enuff, fliped back to semi and play the rest of the day.

i dont know if they are self insured or not. but they do let FA.

that being said, the most FA i have seen on the field is from 98RT's most people dont use it. i have played every big game there for the last 3 years and there havent been any problems.

HS is one of the best run fileds i have ever played at, the know how to run games with 3500+ people at them. you cant trun around with out running into a ref, and thats even in the middle of the woods. it kinda of creepie some times, craling thru the wood and all of a sudden there a ref in front of you.

i think the secret is that all of there big games are 2 days, the people that ref on sat, get to play free on sun. and the people that played free on sat ref on sun.

well i dont know where im going with this but it is one of the saffest fields i heve played at.

Vendetta

05-06-2003, 01:36 PM

FA was allowed at Waynes World a couple of weeks ago. I don't think it made much of a differnce. The fields were huge, and it was mostly long-ball. FA doesn't help much there.

RT pRo AuToMaG

05-06-2003, 08:36 PM

when full auto is allowed, it's usually limited to 13bps.

Jerhew

05-06-2003, 10:36 PM

[i]
I believe the dangers of FA are not necessarily on the field... more in the safe zone and with accidental discharges. [/B]

ok here we go again with the fa arguement
and this is what i always say...

the anti full auto is the same as the whole anti rt thing going on
it's a witch hunt!

come on
explain to me how a full auto...esp a mechanical gun with f/a(and who's trigger pull is atleast a pound) is more dangerous than a breath-on-the-trigger-and-it-fires electro????
hi i own an xmag and i have the trigger set so light that if i set it down it goes off
but man is full auto dangerous:rolleyes:
gimme a break
(sorta reminds me of the marijuana/alcohol arguement...but don't even get me started)

but anyway ya EMR used to allow full auto but i think they changed insurance companies and no longer allow it

gamarada717

05-06-2003, 11:38 PM

I don't believe in shooting guns in FA mode because it takes no talent to hold a trigger down. besides, most markers now days can be shot as fast as they could in FA mode.

Jerhew

05-07-2003, 12:22 AM

granted
but
that's no reason to outlaw them
it's supposedly a safety concern
and the nppl is worried about sweetspotting rts
yet there are no minimnum trigger pull weight rules in effect

am i alone in believing that a hair trigger is much more dangerous than full auto with a heavy trigger or sweetspotting an rt mag(which even when setup to malfunction is rather difficult to accomplish)

oh and by the way
where's the talent in the mouseclick triggers anyway
the talent is in the aiming
if you want to talk talent
maybe we should just get rid of markers all together and just throw paint with our hands :rolleyes: :p :D

manike

05-07-2003, 06:23 AM

Jerhew I fully agree that there is a serious danger posed to accidental discharges from electro's with a very light trigger.

The chance is that some kid at home will pick the gun up, look down the barrel and pull the trigger, shooting a ball into an eye. Yeah that is more likely but it's not the major concern of the eye council. They accept that single eye blindings may happen and that people can learn to live with one eye.

They say with a light electro trigger they may fire one shot and lose one eye and drop the gun etc.

Originally posted by Jerhew
explain to me how a full auto...esp a mechanical gun with f/a(and who's trigger pull is atleast a pound) is more dangerous than a breath-on-the-trigger-and-it-fires electro????

BUT what they don't want is a kid looking down the barrel, firing a double shot and losing BOTH eyes. That's what they find unacceptable.

So if the kid picks up a mechanical marker and is looking down the barrel when he pulls the trigger, he would have pulled it quite hard and there is a much greater chance with a full auto that he will have pulled it long enough to fire multiple shots and then he loses both eyes.

The risk of DOUBLE eye blindness is greater with FA guns than it is with semi auto's. Although yes the risk of single eye blindness is far greater with super light electro triggers.

It seems the single eye blinding is something to avoid, but far more acceptable to the eye council (since accidents do happen) than a double eye blinding.

All they really want to avoid is chances of a double eye blinding.

ReTroMagBoy

05-07-2003, 07:10 AM

ALSO!!.....full auto is not allowed mainly because back in the day of barrel-plugs it was a concern that multiple shots could discharge the barrel plug....and paintballs could come out. :(

cphilip

05-07-2003, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by datapimp69
phil,

HS is my local field.. they do allow FA at the big games.

HS is one of the best run fileds i have ever played at, the know how to run games with 3500+ people at them. you cant trun around with out running into a ref, and thats even in the middle of the woods. it kinda of creepie some times, craling thru the wood and all of a sudden there a ref in front of you.

well i dont know where im going with this but it is one of the saffest fields i heve played at.

It most certainly can be all that and still in the end not be able to compensate someone for being blind. It could end up the best run field in the business that was closed due to bankruptcy caused by a liability claim. It may be the best run field in the business that opened itself up to liability from allowing FA. It only takes one mistake to counteract all the good in the world. That was where I was going with it. Insurance or not.

Given fact is that FA increases the likelyhood that multiple balls will be launched in an accidental discharge and allowing it increases the frequency and probablility that one marker will be set on FA in the safety zone and multiple balls will be accidentaly discharged at someone with no Mask on. And that is the logic behind just not allowing it. Its not the on the field issue at all. It's the probablilities that it increases off the field.

manike

05-07-2003, 08:35 AM

Let me just state that I don't have a problem with the use of FA on the field in terms of safety (I do in terms of skill though).

I don't think FA on the field is any more dangerous than the semi auto markers we have nowadays.

The danger is off the field and in accidental circumstances.

datapimp69

05-07-2003, 08:58 AM

isnt it the same problem FA or not.

it comes down to idoits in the staging area. shooting there guns off when they shouldnt.

i know that with FA you may get more then one ball and could lose both eyes. but i have seen people in the staging area pull there semi trigger more then once.

the problem still lies with the idoits that will mess around when they shouldnt be.

as for on the field the problem of over shooting still exits with or without FA, didnt rocky (or sombody) overshoot someone durring a bunker move then nocked the guy out cold? he didnt have FA.

it is all about control or your marker at all times.

i am not trying to support one side or the other, just comments

manike

05-07-2003, 09:32 AM

Datapimp, think outside of normal paintball.

The danger in the safe zone is real (and I'm not reducing that at all), but the danger that is being obsessed over by the eye council is not people playing or being part of paintball.

It's the gun at home being picked up by your son/daughter who is too young or has never played to understand the markerk or in the hands of a kid playing outlaw etc.

The people within paintball that set the triggers too light or that mess around shooting in the safe zone, need us as players to come down on them. They are irresponsible and should be more careful for themselves and our sport.

WARPED1

05-07-2003, 11:10 AM

Insurance companies will no longer give a field insurance if said field allows FA, this was the case last time I checked.

Jerhew

05-07-2003, 04:15 PM

manike
ok that does seem fair enough i suppose
except that those people who leave full auto paintball guns lying around gassed up and loaded
should be in the same catergory as people who do that with real guns
complete morons.
and at home that should be a concern...(and if you have a small child your paintball gun should NOT be accessible to them,especially connected to an air source)
but how does that affect things at the field
they still do SELL full auto paintball guns regardless of what fields allow them so it still seems like a mute point to me

i imagine the eye council puts the pressure on the insurance companies hoping that if no fields allow full auto, they'll stop being sold

i suppose it's just a way to minimize risk factors
but i still say if they're going to do that, they should also have a minimum pull weight on electros

madmatt151

05-08-2003, 01:00 PM

I totally agree with you on this one Jerhew. Those feather weight triggers are basically Full Auto. They shoot way more then let's say a Spyder E99 on full auto, which is the majority of people using full auto. Safety issues such as children picking up the guns etc have no bearing on what should or shouldn't be allowed on a field of play. As far as insurance goes, if I am hurt with a paintball in any way, the insurance most likely won't cover it. The insurance is for accidents, like what was stated. So if I am signing a contract that fully informs me of the dangers of the sport I am about to play, and I get hurt in the process it isn't the responsibility of the field. Insurance is for slips, falls or anything of that nature. I don't see how allowing full auto will make the "sport" and more dangerous. Let's face it we are getting shot at and we know the consequences.

Originally posted by Jerhew
granted
but
that's no reason to outlaw them
it's supposedly a safety concern
and the nppl is worried about sweetspotting rts
yet there are no minimnum trigger pull weight rules in effect

am i alone in believing that a hair trigger is much more dangerous than full auto with a heavy trigger or sweetspotting an rt mag(which even when setup to malfunction is rather difficult to accomplish)

oh and by the way
where's the talent in the mouseclick triggers anyway
the talent is in the aiming
if you want to talk talent
maybe we should just get rid of markers all together and just throw paint with our hands :rolleyes: :p :D

digitard

05-08-2003, 01:34 PM

Full auto is just about as fast as me walking the trigger on my Excalibur ... I believe the "not ingame" safety concerns are the big deal, when playing a player can outshoot most FA's if they can walk their trigger, but outside if you tap the trigger you can do some damage to someone.

ya know?

bryceeden

05-08-2003, 07:12 PM

My local field is insured and allows full auto in scenarios. I think the scenarios that allow full auto are more fun(I use an intell frame so I can't go full auto)

Daroy99

05-08-2003, 09:57 PM

the scenario i worked at allowed full auto under 9bps

Lopy-slopy

05-11-2003, 09:55 PM

I think it's more of a restraint issue. If you go to bunker someone if you aren a JackA$% you wont pump out 16 BPS right into the back of their neck. But if you have a full auto gun that is set on 16 BPS then you have to. Finger walkers can chose to fire fast sometimes and slow others FA's can't. You can get realy bad injeries like concussions if you get hit multipul times in the head realy fast. In scenerios you are usualy playing father away from each other(depending on the scenerio) than in say speed ball.