Trigger Play: Good/Bad? And How Much?

[HYPER]

Well since my Emag trigger isnt as functional as I want it in E-mode, I decided to play with it in manual (however a new trigger assembly is in the mail thx to AO headcase, thx bro i really really owe you one).

I was playing with the Micro-E and at the same time, my normal PF Micro with benchy frame. I really noticed the difference between the two in terms of side to side play. The benchy had monstrous play while the AGD trigger was exceptionally tighter in tolerances.

Thing I noticed or atleast didnt notice was the difference in feel when ripping the trigger. They both pretty much felt the same. Does side to side "slop" suppose to affect trigger speed? Or is it just an indicator of the quality put into the product? In theory wouldnt less play be bad since theres more of a chance of the trigger and frame bindin adding more friction?

I wanted everyones opinion on this. When the new trigger comes in, I was thinking of adding shims to the sides of the trigger to eliminate play completely, but wasnt too sure if this was a good idea. I know everyone here is already thinking "you want the trigger tighter, but not too tight" which gives a very vague answer that seems to boil down to preference rather than a set tolerance value. I was gonna set a poll here, but figured since tolerances/preferencfes come down to the thousandsth of an inch, the poll would have way too many options.

Also, to ppl who have done this, how is it, and where is the best place to get small/thin washers/shims for the trigger? Also, is there a way to tighten the tolerances between the trigger and trigger pin? That should aid in removing side slop.

LMK All.

-HYPER

P.S. I know this may be annoying you by now headcase, but thx man for the trigger.

[JAM]

yeah, in general, the intelliframe/AGD triggers have less play than the benchmarks, but it shouldn't affect speed much if at all.

Although i don't like a trigger that is all loose like that and i know few peopel who have successfully shimmed their's in place.

[headcase]

To me it is basically just a quality issue. As short as most people set todays electro triggers most people will not notice the side to side play. It was/is a bigger deal with mechanical frames. I can not comment on Mag frames, but in the cocker work, at least with sliding frames, side to side or even vertical play really ruins the feel of a good trigger.

No problem on the trigger, like I said your timing couldn't have been more perfect.(At least as far as asking for the part, it is ever a good time to make a marker inoperatable!) Now if you mess this trigger up you are going to be banished to the land of syders(no syder clones, those are to good for you), now talk about loose triggers! :)

[Dave]

hopefully if/when the new tinkerer forum comes out, we can carry on a more in-depth discussion on trigger play. On my Z-grip, that sucker had a lot of play...I could never fire fast with the Z-grip, so I thought maybe I'd mess around with it a little:D

First, don't do what I did (with limited knowedge at the time) and fill the trigger pin holes on the trigger w/ jb weld and re-drill them...bahahhgg! what a mess lol. After learning a lesson or two (cause I did it to two triggers at once:eek: ) I took the trigger, set it in a vise, threw the trigger pin in the hole, wrapped a rubber band around the ends of the trigger pin sticking out to hold it down, and began tapping all around the hole very slowly and gently at first with a ball peen hammer. This will draw the aluminum all around the trigger rod for a nice tight fit, HOWEVER...this requires incredibly extensive fitting, because with one more hammer blow, you could get the perfect tolerances, but with two blows, you could get it too tight and now your trigger pin is stuck. (a hole punch(?) is good to have around)

Now you are left with a lot of aluminum goop hanging off the sides, since you deformed the aluminum...this is where fine filing and honing on a stone come in handy:) I did this to my Z-trigger...worked great. I also plan to do this to my Intelliframe trigger, and I will fully document it w/ pictures.

-Dave

[athomas]

Shimming the trigger helps provide a more stable pull. This results in a more crisp feel because all the energy of the pull is going straight back instead of some being diverted into the sideways play.

[Russ]

What a timely subject, I just wrote out an order for more trigger shims...


Dave has the "secret" of a good crisp trigger. You can shim the sides until the trigger binds up, and still have play. The key is to tighten up the pin hole.

What I do is ream out the trigger pin hole in the trigger (and frame, too, but a bit undersized from the trigger pin hole) and use an oversized pin, in conjunction with the shims. The trigger is very "precise" feeling. minimum pull weight and travel can them be dialed in.

[HYPER]

Russ,

where do you get your shims from? I have shimmed my Benchy using spare washers, which you could get from any hardware store, to shim up my benchy. However, that frame had horrid tolerances and the AGD frames are tighter. I dont think I can pick up washers that small. What kinda shop would carry them?

My friend and I had the discussion of using an oversized trigger pin to remove play. 2 things worried me about this project.

First, drilling into the frame. Drilling into the trigger, thats one thing since its a replaceable part, but drilling the frame, that intimidates me even if I have decent drill press skills.

Another thing that bothers me, wouldnt this be a waste of time. Wouldnt it just be a matter of time til the trigger pin hole enlargens itself due to usual wear and the play will be back to where it began? I dont know, correct me if Im wrong.

-HYPER

[Russ]

I'm a Tool & Die Maker...been at it for over 25 years...reaming a hole doesn't intimidate me, but I don't reccommend that everyone go out & try it. I have access to many different sized reamers as well. That's important, because the frame hole must be a bit smaller (.0005" works good for me) than the trigger hole, so the pin is retained.

I get the shims, .125" ID X .187" OD, in .001" wide increments (I bought .003"'s this time around) from www.MSCDirect.com I got the oversized dowel pins there, too.

I've got way over 40,000 shots on my E-Mag since the "trigger job"...it hasn't loosened up yet!