why does everybody get so upset over..

[xadamx]

poor air efficiency? i mean unless your playing at a field without all day air or you are playing outlawball , why does it matter to people so much if their gun gets crap for efficiency? if you just watch the gauges on your tank you will know when you are about to need air. check your tank after every game, if you know youll need air take the 2 minutes to fill it up again. if youre playing a tourny look at your tank after every game and tell your pod "assistant" ( ;) ) to be ready to go fill your tank after the next game. maybe im wrong but i just dont see why it matters to everybody so much.

maybe its a pride issue.. "yea well your gun might shoot faster than mine but mine has better efficiency.." type of thing... i dont know
:confused:

[JAM]

Well, i get so pissed off because my field doesn't have the all day air thing... I mean, it really adds up when you need to pay for a fill every 2 games. Any fellow Pev's @ A.G. peeps out there agree? They make tons of money as is, give players the option of $10 all day air or something like it.

-j

oh, and aside from that, as long as i can make it througha game, i don't really care too much about efficiency, but wouldn't it be better to get more shots in general? I mean, less things to worry about/deal with.

[Phil]

Efficiency becomes an issue when your tank is filled and you cant shoot your hopper and four pods without running out of air. You could throw the paintballs at them but unless you hit em in the mask they aint gonna break. :D

[Ultimator]

The thing about poor air efficiency, is the shop and the field are really far away from each other where I play. So even if you have all day air, when you walk up to the shop you always miss out on a game.

[Mossman]

Also when back buys in major tourneys want to be hosing 8, 9, or 10 pods a game, they can't do that with an emag unless they want to run a gigantic tank. Just the fact that the emag gets maybe 60% as many shots on a fill as some of the extremely efficient guns is enough to surely keep it out of the hands of some tourney players, guaranteeing even less tourney exposure for AGD.

mmmm Xmag

[xmetal2001]

Finals in a 3 man tournament, about 3 minutes left,its a stalemate, and I run out of air...Thats not a good thing...

While we did end up doing ok due to my insane screaming and scaring the crap out of the other team...it sure helps when you can shoot back.

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by xadamx
poor air efficiency? i mean unless your playing at a field without all day air or you are playing outlawball , why does it matter to people so much if their gun gets crap for efficiency? if you just watch the gauges on your tank you will know when you are about to need air. check your tank after every game, if you know youll need air take the 2 minutes to fill it up again. if youre playing a tourny look at your tank after every game and tell your pod "assistant" ( ;) ) to be ready to go fill your tank after the next game. maybe im wrong but i just dont see why it matters to everybody so much.

maybe its a pride issue.. "yea well your gun might shoot faster than mine but mine has better efficiency.." type of thing... i dont know
:confused:
I concur............
Doesn't bother me at all. 88CI 4500 PSI Crossfire.

[SlartyBartFast]

The Automag needs high input/dump chamber pressure to overcome the bolt spring.

Would using a ram to return the bolt and removing the spring not reduce the required pressures and increase efficiency?

[einhander619]

possibly. That ram oprated bolt would be an interesting project. However, that would take away the huge benefit of simplicity the mag has by adding an LPR, and then the LX system would have to be either redesigned or thrown out. I believe punisher has done something like this, but ut was done for speed, not shots per fill.

[Blazingace]

I play back for my 5-man team. I use and Lvl 10 E-mag with a 68/45 PMI. At a recent tourney we could only get between 2800 and 3500 PSI fills. I would have to fill every game but I would shoot a hopper and 4 pods with it. I didn't have too much of an effiency problem then. I am getting a 88/45 tank to expand my ability for possible 7-man games.

[personman]

I'm thinking about it, and I have a 3.2 redz dimention pack.. yet I have a 68/3k tank.. pretty stupid if you ask me.. how can I possibly shoot a hopper and 5 pods and not run out of air? :p
I think I might step up to a nicer tank sometime in the future, but I bet I'll survive through D-Day, as long as I leave the dead zone with a full tank every time..
Honestly I dont care about effeciancy, not that I dont try to improve it (correct level 10 adjustments, good paint/barrel match) because my field has all day air.. :D

I can see why it would matter if you diddnt have all day air though..

[hitech]

It only bothers me when I run out during a game. I fill up before each game and I've run out (big barrel, little paint). :(

[Ov3rmind]

Poor efficiency sucks because:
A. I don't want to use any tank bigger than 68ci.
B. None of my local fields have all day air. This phenomenon has yet to catch on in Utah.

[j.t.]

When you have better air efficiancy you can run a smaller tank. Therefore better air efficiancy equals a lighter setup.:D

[Grasshopper]

When I go to my real field, I can get cheap all day air, but when I'm out of money, and don't have the $20 entry fee, I go to a free field. It's not "outlawball", since it's cool with all the neighbors and cops, and 30+ people show up every Satuday for the last 5 years, but the thing is, the only takes anyone ever brings is CO2 scuba tanks. So, if I run out of air after a game or 2, it kind of ruins it.

[heftylefty]

well, im lucky that my field has all day air because i have a new matrix with NO bolt kit. and i only get like a hopper and 2 pods. now it would suck if i had to pay for every fill, that could get really costly.

[Kevmaster]

sometimes 1200 rounds isnt enough

[BTAutoMag]

Originally posted by Grasshopper
When I go to my real field, I can get cheap all day air, but when I'm out of money, and don't have the $20 entry fee, I go to a free field. It's not "outlawball", since it's cool with all the neighbors and cops, and 30+ people show up every Satuday for the last 5 years, but the thing is, the only takes anyone ever brings is CO2 scuba tanks. So, if I run out of air after a game or 2, it kind of ruins it.

Originally posted by Kevmaster
sometimes 1200 rounds isnt enough

i couldnt agree more to the two. i mean, i use co2 for the fact that you get more shot off of the same amout of money and for the fact that i usualy play at a field that exclusivly uses co2. there's no cheap way i can use co2 around here

[WARPED1]

*COGHPLAYPUMPCOUGH*:D ;) :p

[BTAutoMag]

i used to... i stopped when i realised the other team was only aiming for me to prove a point

[FutureMagOwner]

Originally posted by WARPED1
*COGHPLAYPUMPCOUGH*:D ;) :p

hehe lol im accualy doing that today i picked up a used sl 68 II and i can last all day with my wimpy 48/3000 crossfire if i wanted to(however i would use my 68/4500 PE since its easier to shoulder and weighs the same)

[Evil Bob]

Because no one carries a spare air tank onto the field with them. In big tournies, particularly 10 man format, you can easily go through 1200+ rounds in a single game. Nothing worse then being 5 men up and soundly beating the other team then having half your team running completely out of air.

This is why people are concerned about air efficiency.

-Evil Bob

[FalconGuy016]

Yes Jam, I play there, and I pay for air

[darklord]

As a back man, efficiency is a must. I have an 88/45 and a Matrix, 'nuff said. With the 88 I get a decent amount of shots, but I really, REALLY want a smaller tank that is easier to lug around, but still not have to really get a fill after every game like some people have said. For outlawball, my team and I have our own personal scuba to use, so air isn't a problem. The more efficient companies can make my marker, the better. If I can get a whole case off of a 68/3k, that means I don't need a huge or expensive bottle to get a lot of shots! I will wait for the day that someone can get a case off of a 48/3k ;)

[BTAutoMag]

Originally posted by darklord
I have an 88/45 and a Matrix, 'nuff said

TRAITOR!

[hostage]

When I went up to a 68/4500 i saw a vast improvement. Well I don't mind unless I forget to fill before every one or two rounds. I am guessing I get about 500 shots from a 3k fill.
-Doron

[BTAutoMag]

i just realised that that doesnt have the effect i wanted, especialy with the smiling cartoon character less then an nch from it.

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by darklord
As a back man, efficiency is a must. I have an 88/45 and a Matrix, 'nuff said. With the 88 I get a decent amount of shots, but I really, REALLY want a smaller tank that is easier to lug around, but still not have to really get a fill after every game like some people have said. For outlawball, my team and I have our own personal scuba to use, so air isn't a problem. The more efficient companies can make my marker, the better. If I can get a whole case off of a 68/3k, that means I don't need a huge or expensive bottle to get a lot of shots! I will wait for the day that someone can get a case off of a 48/3k ;) Get a 68ci/5000psi THOR

[Curly]

Originally posted by WARPED1
Get a 68ci/5000psi THOR

It would help if anyone filled to 5000psi...

Personally I need at least a hopper and 13 pods per game. This is when I play 7man. Therefore I have been using an 88/4500 on my timmy.

[darklord]

Originally posted by BTAutoMag


TRAITOR! lol, come on man, I still go on the forums... :D

and as for the THOR, I might get a 68/5k bottle, but I have no need for the THOR, I'd just use an inline reg as my primary.

[GatoLoco]

Originally posted by Blazingace
I play back for my 5-man team. I use and Lvl 10 E-mag with a 68/45 PMI. At a recent tourney we could only get between 2800 and 3500 PSI fills. I would have to fill every game but I would shoot a hopper and 4 pods with it. I didn't have too much of an effiency problem then. I am getting a 88/45 tank to expand my ability for possible 7-man games.

Ive seen this man's paint spraying skills before, don't get in his way lol:D

[_Spork_1]

Originally posted by JAM
Well, i get so pissed off because my field doesn't have the all day air thing... I mean, it really adds up when you need to pay for a fill every 2 games. Any fellow Pev's @ A.G. peeps out there agree? They make tons of money as is, give players the option of $10 all day air or something like it.

-j


yea! I had a 30 minutes converstation with the fill station guy on how they should have all day air last time i was at Pevs, i kept telling him how 5 bucks a fill is crazy and it would be so nicer to have all day air

they really kill you on air and admin compared to some other fields

last time i went i think i spent 15 i think, they should do all day air, it's not like tons of peopel are going to get their tank fielld 3+ times

some people only re-fill it once so they would make money off of all day air from that person

!!!!!

[Thing]

What makes the situation REALLY gay is that the field owners pay for the entire tank of air with the first tank they fill. I know because most of the fields I play charge a 1.50 per 1000 pounds. I got smart and bought 5 beat up scuba tanks from a dive shop and got one of the fill stations. They fill to around 4000 psi. We load up all five in my truck and fill our 4500 angel air tanks at the field. With a five man team shooting over 20 cases on a Saturday we go through about 3 scuba tanks. Sure we are not getting 4500 fills, but guess what? It cost the whole team 8 bucks to run air all day. 2.50 per scuba at the dive shop...plus tax. It only cost 3.50 to fill the large air tanks....I know the fields have to make money, but......damn. Like paintball isn't expensive enough as it is. Cut a brother some slack and give all day fills.
'nuff said.

[jwren00]

get a scuba tank! one of the fields i play at charges huge amaounts per fill, so i bought a scuba and fill my own now.

I can air up at home now whenever i want too, comes in really handy when you get bored and want to adjust the trigger or goof around...

[Pand0ra]

Originally posted by Mossman
Also when back buys in major tourneys want to be hosing 8, 9, or 10 pods a game, they can't do that with an emag unless they want to run a gigantic tank. Just the fact that the emag gets maybe 60% as many shots on a fill as some of the extremely efficient guns is enough to surely keep it out of the hands of some tourney players, guaranteeing even less tourney exposure for AGD.

mmmm Xmag

I can shoot up to 9 pods + loader with my Emag C&C, and this is with a 68Ci/4500psi air system. It's just a question of settings.
On mine, the air system is the most efficient near 625psi. If I use an input pressure even slightly different (like 700psi), I start loosing efficiency.

@++

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by einhander619
possibly. That ram oprated bolt would be an interesting project. However, that would take away the huge benefit of simplicity the mag has by adding an LPR, and then the LX system would have to be either redesigned or thrown out. I believe punisher has done something like this, but ut was done for speed, not shots per fill.

Would you really need a LPR? Run the ram at high pressure. You want the bolt to return as fast as possible anyways.

[xadamx]

o0o well you all have valid enough points about caring about air efficiency. i guess im just spoiled by my field having its own air compressor and 3 scuba tanks sitting there right in the staging area and free all day air.