Are Reactive Triggers Tournament Legal or Not?

[Corbet]

on the FAQ it says they weren't legal for only one tourney but now they are, but my friends say they arn't tourney legal. So are they or not? Are some illegal and some not? Whats the deal?

[Miscue]

Tippy RT is not...

RT Pro is... so long as you don't have a too reactive trigger that runs away.

[Corbet]

so if I were to upgrade my Classic Automag to have a reactive trigger it WILL be legal.

[Army]

If you put a Xvalve in your Classic 'Mag, your trigger will be reactive, and still legal for tourney use.

[Kevmaster]

note: we are commenting on NPPL / PSP rules. most local tournaments keep that rulebook as a base, but modify them some to fit their needs. check your local tournies to make sure they havnt banned RT

[ezrunner]

The problem is that with an adjustable tank you can twist an allen key to make it more reactive.

I think that most fields are ok if they can see that it doesn't run away, but to be safe, use a preset screw in tank so that they don't try to catch you later in the day.

-rob

[no1beefcake]

Originally posted by Army
If you put a Xvalve in your Classic 'Mag, your trigger will be reactive, and still legal for tourney use.

And hardcore, oh yes.

[MarkM]

I have seen this discussed serveral times on this forum before and whilst trying to keep an open mind the majority of the people here do own (amongst others in many cases) AGD products and that would seem to be the overiding criteria only....reactive trigger is not allowed in the major tournaments although certain fields will allow it. To say the marker can be set so it is only a little bit reactive is like saying "it's ok, I'm only little bit pregnant", any reactivity will allow the marker to fire more than one shot per pull...not everytime granted, but find the sweet spot and it will. Now to put this post into context with the previous threads...how many posts say "Oh man when I get it on the sweet spot it rocks !!"? You can't have it both ways, either set it so it reacts and take your chances or drop the input pressure so it doesn't react.
I own an Angel and that can bounce if set up with an insanely short trigger pull (mine isn't) and will be recieving a Speed this week. For me personally I feel that the E-mag/and or the RT has too many issues for me to purchase but again that is a personal choice. I DO NOT have a downer on AGD products but sometimes alot of you are too close to see. Tom and Manike are both working on ways to de-react the trigger, but until that product/modification is out, drop the input pressure.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by MarkM
....reactive trigger is not allowed in the major tournaments although certain fields will allow it.

There is no such rule as stated. The rule is multiple shots per trigger pull. No matter how you get there. Reactive trigger or electronic bounce. It's a matter of will it to it or not. Just because its commonly stated does not make it so. RT Mags are allowed as long as they do not bounce. And they can be made to not bounce. And as pointed out many other markers can be made to bounce. And those are illegal as well. The WAS board specificaly should be looked into. Its designed to change on the field. Even a Race frame can be made to bounce. And as you pointed out an Angel can. Its time we looked at what the marker is doing and not judging on a reputation. The rule is neutral and should be applied as intended. Not by some reputation and assuption. If its not evenly applied its not being correctly applied.

Problem we have is everyone tries to make thiers bounce! And it can be done. And so the rep develops. And some fields go by inuendo and rumor rather than check. This paintball is all about the rumor is it not? :(

Yes AGD is looking into ways to assure the RT does not bounce. But I think its high time to realise no one is taking a good look at these other markers and need to if this is going to be the rule.

[MarkM]

Cphillip, You quoted me and for generalisation purposes I am right....some fields will allow a reactive trigger some won't...the won't section being the major leagues and yes within their rulings they talk about bouncing. However you dress it up bouncing, wether being assisted by the spring of the internal workings of a switch or by the gas blast against the on/off pin, the result is the same. I agree that alot of the flak has been directed towards AGD but then those particular markers are easier to spotlight as they are easy to set-up that way and very easy to get running in that form the other makes are capable of similar feats but are more difficult to achieve by way of set-up.
If you want to start a list you can pretty much include any semi you can think of, exceptions are autocockers (non-electro) I could get a mag to go into runaway back in the days of level 7 with toxic toys spacers...blended the paint but I could still do it. Oh and as far as looking at things in a neutral way...I do, thats why I stopped more than one make of marker going on the field at the last world cup ;)

[yeahthatsme]

but see, your wrong, becuase the rule is that as long as the ref can't bounce the trigger, its fine, and all the agd markers can be set so that they have very little trigger bounce, and that makes them legal.

[MarkM]

Originally posted by yeahthatsme
but see, your wrong, becuase the rule is that as long as the ref can't bounce the trigger, its fine, and all the agd markers can be set so that they have very little trigger bounce, and that makes them legal.

Re-read what you just typed....." and all the agd markers can be set so that they have very little trigger bounce" little or large it don't matter, if it can bounce it will bounce, so it doesn't go on the field...simple...set it up so you have no bounce...on the field you go...same for ANY make of marker.

[ReTroMagBoy]

you can EASILY set up RT mags to still have a reactive trigger without the trigger actually bouncing!

its when people shorten their on/off pins and crank up the input pressure that RT mag triggers can begin bouncing! :)

[Miscue]

RTs are LEGAL. They were illegal for a very short time because of washover from the Smart Part Turbo Board issue... and because certain people did not understand how the RT worked. Your "RTs are illegal" idea is based from a long standing rumor.

If you really tamper with the RT, yes you can get it to runaway. If you tamper with ANY gun to the point of malfunction, it can runaway.

The possibility of RT runaway during malfunction is a side-effect of how the valve works... this was not the intent of the gun's features. I for one would worry about the 25 gram electros out there purposely made for easy bouncing... have boards that shoot in turbo mode by having low debounce settings that pick up switch contact bounce... and will fire continuously w/o touching the trigger... which the RT will not do. Anybody remember what happened with Lasoya?

[Phil]

I could get my old RT and my Emag to runaway simply by uping the imput pressure. It was easier with my Emag. I could bounce strings of 5 or 6 without much effort. I just did it messing around and never played with it that way. I prefer semi-auto.

[MinimagRockin']

I'm curious to what the actual definition of bouncing is, there seems to be a gray area. On my RT I have the pressure set to where I can put some pressure on the trigger and then while keeping this pressure on the trigger all the time just move my finger back and forth slightly resulting in a fast rhythmic string. It's definately not going full auto or "runaway" because I have to actually pull the trigger each time but is this sort of thing still considered bouncing because you are relying on the RT effect to shoot fast? I always thought it was legal as long as you didn't have it set to where you could just put the right amount of pressure on the trigger and it would shoot full auto just by holding the trigger down.

[ReTroMagBoy]

Originally posted by MinimagRockin'
I always thought it was legal as long as you didn't have it set to where you could just put the right amount of pressure on the trigger and it would shoot full auto just by holding the trigger down.

correct but not just full auto, any unintentional fire.

[trutle]

originally posted by movingtarget on the paintballforum:
Okay, there has been tons and tons of questions about "RT's" so I am going to clear them up.

First off there are two different "RT's" and they are completely different. the first is the response trigger is made by Tippmann. The response trigger IS NOT LEGAL IN TOURNAMENTS! The response trigger features a little piston behind the tigger and pushes out when pushed on, so once you the pull the tigger the first time you can place your fingers in the right place so that the trigger bounces off your finger and hits the piston tripping the sear automatically, so it's like firing full automatic therefore it is not tournament legal, but it can be turned off making it tournament legal.

The other "RT" is the Reactive Trigger manufactured buy Airgun Designs (the automag people) and they are made exclusievly for automags. All it does is shortens mechanical trigger pull without using electronics. IT IS TOURNAMENT LEGAL. It does not allow you to go fully automatic, it only speeds up your trigger pull.

So,

Response Trigger-Not Tournament Legal
Reactive trigger-Tournament Legal