Autocockers: Your Thoughts

[AFRaven]

Hey guys. I just want to know what you all think about Autocockers, it seems like there is some animosity between the 'mag guys and the 'cocker guys. Any reason? Are Autocockers "bad guns" to your standards?

[FalconGuy016]

No they arent "bad" guns to me, they are just entirely different.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Originally posted by AFRaven
Hey guys. I just want to know what you all think about Autocockers, it seems like there is some animosity between the 'mag guys and the 'cocker guys. Any reason? Are Autocockers "bad guns" to your standards?

I wouldn't categorize it as animosity...more like ignorance...

[AFRaven]

So I gather that the Autococker users are the ignorant ones? Why is that so? Note: I am not taking sides here, just trying to figure things out.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

I think we both suffer from ignorance of varying degrees. Cockers don't have great accuracy or range from being closed bolt..they can tell you that all day long..but it just doesn't..unless of course you don't believe in the laws of physics...and well..Mag shooters..we have our own ignorances..but I'm not going to call a spade a spade or anything..if you've been here long enough you'll see it flare up from time to time..

[AFRaven]

I see. Thanks for clarifying. The main point of this was that I was out paintballing today, and I am in the market for a new gun. I fired and Autococker, and damn, it was nice. The range was standard, accuracy was amazing (but no better or worse than my friends mag). I also fired a mag, and I like both of them. I am just trying to figure out which gun to upgrade to, seeing that I want to go non-electro. I am torn between a Cocker and a RT Mag.

[DroopyTheBacker]

Well I don't have a beef against cocker shooters, and yeah I think there is some ignorance (I actually was a cocker shooter till I found an emag :D ) But if there is one thing wrong with the cocker I think it would be the design from the start. It's based off a pump gun. It wasn't meant to be a semi. It wasn't meant to cock by itself and it wasn't meant to shoot 11 bps, much less all the crazy crap these eblades are doing. If you wanna make a semi, make a semi. Don't make a pump into a semi.

My 2 cents.

[NJPaint]

After owning both, all I can say is that its a personal preference, mags don't break, cockers require lots of matenance, if thats your thing then hey go ahead, they are good guns.

[Quiet]

I loved my mag, and I'm loving my 2k3 cocker. You'll hear a lot of crap as to why one is better than the other, mostly it's just BS. For a while Mags and Cockers were the two markers to have, so they were always compared to one another. Since everybody likes to believe that they have the best and nobody could come up with any real reasons why one was better than the other they simply made them up. That happens in two ways by boosting theirs or putting the others down. Since both camps spent some time putting each other down there's a bit of sillyness going around. Most of us are intelligent enough to realise what it is and have fun with it, but there are always a few idiots (on both sides of course).

My .02
Q

[minimag187]

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[FutureMagOwner]

the problem with me and cockers is im the only one with a brain at my field so im always fixing them and they are so annoying

[ß.C.]

It's all preference, neither are bad. But face it, the majority of new people/ignorant people believe mags suck. I remember I didn't think too high of mags either when I first started. They weren't as pretty and the price was cheaper. So I used common sense and figured that the more $$ means the better the gun. Then down the road I realized you needed to put stuff on the mag and after that the price sorta evens out. Mags in general are cheaper but less flashy, cockers are in general mroe expensive but more flashy. That's what I figured.

[ugabiged88]

I have a autococker and an automag and I like both. They each have their own strengths and weaknesses, and I wouldn't say that one was better than the other.

What DroopyTheBacker said was just wrong though. There is nothing wrong with the autococker coming from a pump gun. He has probably never even shot an autococker.

[Catch22]

There is a trick to autocockers. Get them working right once and then leave it that way. Don't mess with anything and they'll last forever pretty much. Automags well.. that part comes already done.

[FeelTheRT]

Originally posted by NJPaint
cockers require lots of matenance
No they dont. They require as much maintence as a Mag. You drop in a few drops of oil in the gas line before airing it up and dry fire a few times. They don't require anything from you but your love, as any of your markers should. If you really love it enough, you will be interested in fine tuning it. You can tune it so that it has amazing efficiency (able to get 1900 shots out of a 68ci tank), or tune it to cycle amazingly fast (real nice if you have an electro frame on there), or you can mod it to have a crazy lite and short pull, or have a snappier pull, and the list goes on. Last time i checked, Mags are still pretty much stuck on around 1000 shots from a 68ci tank, and therer isn't anything you can do at all to the trigger pull. By all meens, Mags are great guns but if you are into modifying things and customizing, a Cocker would be a more reasonable choice.

[cledford]

After seeing the recharge curve of the RT on Tom's gun dyno - you would NEVER want to own ANY other gun that didn't have an RT based valve. I'm currently working on a article that discusses the whole matter - but in short, cocker, timmy, viking, angel, trix, whatever is only as strong as it's gun regulator - none of them can hold a candle to the RT and from what I can see - as it is impossible for a human to fire it BEFORE it has completely recharged due to how fast it recovers. There is a technical reason for this behavior which no other reg can provide - but that is for the article due to it's complexity. Anyhow, with any other reg it appears you can start to outshoot it over 9-10bps. That means shoot-down and inconsistency - although it varies based on gun and reg setup. The one thing for sure is that the RT will NEVER suffer from the problem.

-Calvin

[askman]

I own emag, zbodymag, pump mag, sydarm, custom cocker, blazer and typhoon. so 4 mags and 3 cocker type. My cocker and blazer is about twice as efficient shotwise, and do 10bps without shootdown. Frankly, I don't mind using either a cocker or mag, but my first love is mag. I just picked up a 88/4500 stubby tank for it. should give me plenty of shots.

They are both good markers, and reliable if you don't mess with it. Even my typhoon can hold its own. (only about 6bps due to heavy trigger though, but great fun for rec ball. loud and accurate)

[reefer madness]

they are some of the best guns out there but way too trendy for me. thats why i got a mag

[zen_dawg]

I think people are in awe when they see the back black slapping against the body during rapid fire:D

[Fatjon]

I just got my cocker tuesday. And i used it saturday. All i can say wow. It shot faster than my mag. And did not chop 1 ball out of the case i shot. I loved it.

[bunkermaster10]

I really like cockers. But I hate the fact that they are really hard to take care of. Everday I go to my field and I see ever cocker owner having some kind of problem. So thats why I went with a mag.

[AzrealDarkmoonZ]

Cockers rarely require maintenance as long as they are well cared for...

Quite simply if everything is tightened and all screws are in the proper places a cocker will not slip out of place. They are harder to take apart and they do involve more care than a mag but almost anyone can learn how to take care of them, and keep them running properly.

Cledford, I disagree with the fact that no other regulator can achieve over 9-10 bps without shootdown, I beleive they and know they can, its just a matter of maximizing your available air usage and getting a high quality regulator, a matter of flow and charge and of course how the gun uses the air. Also the RT does have a weakness, its reliance on high pressure inputs at the upper end of the CPS spectrum, it needs that higher pressure and from what I saw from I beleive Ody HALO video most regs are not able to achieve the ultra high pressure the RT needs, hence why they used a scuba tank. Granted it is a moot point since most people will never see 20 cps but when extolling the RTs super recharge you can note that recharge comes with a price of high input pressure and a system is only as good/fast as the slowest part.

If you buy a cocker please come on over and stop by www.air-powered.com we are a generally nice group who do not propagate ancient myths. We know cockers don't shoot farther...but we do like em more.

Az...www.air-powered.com

And just so I do not appear totally biased I shot a MicroRT for over 6 months and loved it.

[hAppy]

my friend had a cocker
than he traded it for a b2k cus cockers need "cocker fingers" its easy to shortstroke

[ugabiged88]

I have had my 2k2 vertical feed autococker for one year and a half and it has never broken down. The only thing that I have had to do was tweek the timing a little, because of a small leak coming from the three way every time I pulled the triger. The only problem in one and a half years only caused slightly less shots per tank. Also I almost never chop with my cocker, just once every 2000 shots or so.

The other awesome thing: I get 1300 shots from a 68ci 3000 psi tank, with not upgraded internals.

[DroopyTheBacker]

I never said the cocker being based of a pump was a problem, I said I think it is the cocker's main downfall. Meaning that's what I dislike about them. I shot them for around a year, owned a 2k and then I built my custom after I upgraded the 2k a bit. I still have it and shoot it from time to time, but I never understood why they based it off a pump. Don't lash at me saying I've never shot one. Just voicing my opinion here.

[Automaggin2]

i switched from a mag to a cocker, and i can tel you this, i will never ever go back to mag :D I love my cocker to death, it is probably one of the sweetest guns i have ever shot.

[la690]

Originally posted by AzrealDarkmoonZ

...Also the RT does have a weakness, its reliance on high pressure inputs at the upper end of the CPS spectrum, it needs that higher pressure and from what I saw from I beleive Ody HALO video most regs are not able to achieve the ultra high pressure the RT needs, hence why they used a scuba tank...


they didnt use a scuba tank because the mag NEEDED it. they used it to show what the HALO could do at high speeds. And at pressues getting into 1K+ the mags do go a lot faster. But even at around 800psi, which most PB tank regs can give, the RT will still tear apart any other mech gun and many E guns.

[nerobro]

Man what a wonderfull subject.

Anyone with a mind on their shoulders doesn't "hate" one gun or another without good reason. That said... there are a few guns I encourage people to avoid like the plague.. cockers and mags are not them ;-) *cough* smartparts *cough*

For a large part animosity between gunowners is a large measure ignorance.

Mag owners think cockers are slow, and are maintnance problems. And are easy to short stroke. And are heavy. Reality is quite different. Cockers are faster than their regs are at this point. They are around the same weight as a mag, and only require maintnance when someone tries to fix what's not broken.

Cockers are NOT easy to short stroke if properly timed.... sad to say, but most cockers are NOT properly timed.

Cocker owners think mags are slow. they think mags are heavy. They think their triggers suck. And they think mags have less range and aren't as accurate. I'll let you tear apart that arguement yourself.

I shoot my cocker much more often than my mag. For one reason. It feels better to me. (and my velocity consistancy is somewhat better...) If you check out the racegun videos, speed shouldn't be a question. If you're shortstroking, time it right, and use a harder hammer spring. (that makes the trigger snappy and forces you to pull the trigger far enough) and crank up the LPR.

Going by pure preformance numbers, cockers can nearly match mags for rof. And that's a number you can't hope to reach without being on a half a pound of speed. And for efficancy, they can blow mags out of the water.

Now to do that, the gun needs to be tuned, and setup right. And at that point LEFT ALONE. That's why you hear so many horror stories about cockers. People who dont' comprehend what they're doing, end up making the gun preform terriably.

Now mags.... Just work. no tuning involved. And they work. :-) Kinda nice eh? There's a reason I own a mag too..... they're a mecanically beautiful design.

Wanna talk a rabid group of gun owners ;-) talk to some M98 users with flatlines. *shivers*

Just so ya know. My tourny gun right now is an e-spyder with a hyperflow n2 tank on it. (feed a gun right, and a blowback will keep up with the best of them) I have a cocker, a mag, and 8 other seperate kinds of gun. They all have something endeering about them.

[la690]

Originally posted by nerobro


Wanna talk a rabid group of gun owners ;-) talk to some M98 users with flatlines. *shivers*


YIKES hahaha. i know exactly how you feel.

[WickeDKlowN]

Originally posted by nerobro
Anyone with a mind on their shoulders doesn't "hate" one gun or another without good reason. That said... there are a few guns I encourage people to avoid like the plague.. cockers and mags are not them ;-) *cough* smartparts *cough*
Well put Nero!

Well, I love mags, I love cockers. Infact, I think I just bought a 'cocker... lol, still waiting for the guys reply.

[Ov3rmind]

This is an excellent thread.:cool:

From what I have seen, the Mag/Cocker hate between owners has been dwindeling over the past few years. This is great, because both are truely excellent paintball guns. However, you'll still run into the ignorant SOBs every now and then.

[AFRaven]

Wow. I am surprised this thread got so far. While I was out and about today, I decided I am going to go with a Mag. They can be just as "sexy" as Cockers, and they can perform just as well. However, feel free to keep commenting on the topic. I, for one, have seen a much more ignorance based rivalry between the Spyder users and the Tippmann users.

[Ov3rmind]

Originally posted by AFRaven
I, for one, have seen a much more ignorance based rivalry between the Spyder users and the Tippmann users. I don't want to stereotype here, but you're probably right. Spyder/Tippy owners are typically newer players, and I've found newer players are more compelled to brag about their guns with less info to back it up with.

[AFRaven]

Yeah, well I am ashamed to admit, at least in the Automag forums, that I am a Spyder user (sigh). I have been playing for about a year and a half now and I know the game pretty well. Not only am I looking for a better gun, I am sick of getting picked last for RecBall, when people judge teams by guns :mad:

[Grasshopper]

There's absolutley no shame in owning a spyder. Hell, I still play with my bro's TL+ every once in a while. I love using a variety of guns. Everyone around me has a 'Cocker, and I'm the lone mag user. That's actually one of the reasons I like my 'Mag. It's unique, and that's the way I like it. Not only that, I can easily keep up with my friends 'Cocker all around.

[Ov3rmind]

Grasshopper is right, there is nothing wrong with owning a Spyder. I owned a TL+ for a little over a year myself. I still find it fun to use (when my friend wants to use my Cocker for a game, he has my old Spyder) on occasion.

[nerobro]

*reads up a bit* As i said, my spyder has become my tourny gun ;-) no shame in that.

[G F K]

I have personally owned both, and I feel it is all about preferance, they are completely different in the way the shoot.
I personally love the way cockers shoot but they are way too big for me. eventhough i know there are mini cockers, i just couldn't afford it, so i ended up trading for my Mag and i love it.

Mags are for some people, and not for others. as for the others they are just hatin.

[FooTemps]

Cockers and mags feel and shoot differently. I've shot both, and blah... Slide trigger cockers aren't my boat. I haven't shot a swing trigger cocker but slide trigger cockers feel funny in my hands. I can't fire them right. The mag on the other hand I can fire pretty easily. I liked how the cocker felt in my hands but the mag is just easier for me to use.
It's just a matter of preference.

[boggerman]

I own both, and like both. I bought a cocker so I could learn about it and tinker with it. The person I bought it from told me it had been "professionally" timed and was ready to rock. Great, I thought, I will be able to play with it for a while before I have to mess with it-WRONG! Professionally timed evidently only means that everything with threads has red loc-tite on it. The cocking rod was set too long, and the sear lug was set too short(and had so much loc-tite that I twisted my allen wrench real bad trying to adjust it). I seem to have it pretty good now, and I am thinking about upgrading the stock pnuematics, any advice here would be appreciated. I am thinking a Bomb 3-way and a KAPP fatt ram, but I don't know what reg would be best.

Here is another reason I bought a cocker, you can upgrade every part of it and some will even enhance the performance of the marker while making it look cool!

[minimag187]

Ive owned 3 mags, a bushmaster, a 98 cocker, and now my ir3 and evolution x. They are both very nice, but I dont really like cocker triggers so I am selling my evox.

[GT]

Originally posted by AzrealDarkmoonZ
Cledford, I disagree with the fact that no other regulator can achieve over 9-10 bps without shootdown,

that isnt really what he said


none of them can hold a candle to the RT and from what I can see - as it is impossible for a human to fire it BEFORE it has completely recharged due to how fast it recovers.

He is talking about firing it before the valve has recharged..

jn

[AzrealDarkmoonZ]

gtrsi,



Cledford: Anyhow, with any other reg it appears you can start to outshoot it over 9-10bps. That means shoot-down and inconsistency - although it varies based on gun and reg setup. The one thing for sure is that the RT will NEVER suffer from the problem.

I am afraid that is exactly what he said...

Unless I am taking it in the wrong way.

Az

Edit: Although he did say it varies he implies more overtly that no other regulator can keep adequate pressure at 9-10bps.

[GT]

Originally posted by AzrealDarkmoonZ
gtrsi,
I am afraid that is exactly what he said...
Unless I am taking it in the wrong way.
Az
Edit: Although he did say it varies he implies more overtly that no other regulator can keep adequate pressure at 9-10bps.

i am still confused by his statement. So the RT is the only valve that recharges so fast there is the inability to prematurly release recharging gasses?

hmm..

why have we not seen a test on how many FPS loss it takes to see shootdown, ex actuall loss in distance? sorry that was a side note.

jb

[Automaggin2]

Originally posted by NJPaint
After owning both, all I can say is that its a personal preference, mags don't break, cockers require lots of matenance, if thats your thing then hey go ahead, they are good guns.


hahahaha my cocker requires little maintence. it reuqired the same amount as my mag, it just takes a little more time to fix them if they go down.

[Automaggin2]

Originally posted by cledford
you would NEVER want to own ANY other gun that didn't have an RT based valve. - but in short, cocker, timmy, viking, angel, trix, whatever is only as strong as it's gun regulator - none of them can hold a candle to the RT and from what I can see - as it is impossible for a human to fire it BEFORE it has completely recharged due to how fast it recovers.
-Calvin

Seriously man, you think people care if the valve can recharge so fast that you can never outshoot it? Its almost impossible to out shoot a fine tuned cocker, timmy, or anything. I'm not gonna be shooting 26+ balls a second. I can shoot my cocker around 10 balls asecond, and i see NO DROP OFF, at all. NONE.

[Catch22]

Origonally posted by Catch22


There is a trick to autocockers. Get them working right once and then leave it that way. Don't mess with anything and they'll last forever pretty much. Automags well.. that part comes already done

[FreakBaller12]

If your a tru blue paintball player, it doesn't matter THAT MUCH what gun you have. Sure angels can kill tippy's in shooting I.E. more $$$. Dont be ashamed og what you shoot. And don't be afraid to brag, it just brings more fun(if possible) to paintball. As long as you don't get bent out of shape and knwo what your talking about It is all how it feels to you. Emag Or cocker a hard question. it's how it feels to you not what your friends say or what people say. It's up to you, sure you can replace the trigger frame but you'll know when you find that prefect feeling gun tippy or timmy regardless. Emags and Cockers are both great guns

[Bubonic Plauge]

I have been playing with a e-spyder for about a year now. I shoot it faster or just as fast as anyone on the rec field. I do chop paint sometimes :( So, what sold me on the mags were the level X. I watched those vidoes of Tom with his tounge in the bolt and the super rof like a million times. I bought a new gun.

Enter the Tunaman built Emag with X-valve...

Egg