Reactivity in Hybrid

[rdb123]

Hmmm, well I was tuning my trigger on my SFL this weekend and noticed that when I set it to about a 1mm trigger pull (to optimize E-mode), that when I switch it into Hybrid, I end up pulling the trigger about 4mm just so the little trigger piston thingy will kick the trigger back forward for me.

Should I lengthen my trigger rod so it actually smacks my trigger back into ready position when using Hybrid mode?

Thanks

-Ron

[rdb123]

One week now...any answers? ;)

Thanks guys

-Ron

[Halliday]

If you can measure the trigger rod accuratly, I'd check it. When I got my E-Mag it was used and the rod was too short.

[BajaBoy]

yea, i get nothing in "hybrid" either..

[rdb123]

Originally posted by Halliday
If you can measure the trigger rod accuratly, I'd check it. When I got my E-Mag it was used and the rod was too short.

That's a good suggestion, I'll try it out later.

I bought this SFL used from Johnny Bravo, so that might be it. I'll find me some calipers and report back.

Thanks

[ReTroMagBoy]

ADJUST UR HES SENSOR MAGNET TO FIRE FURTHER BACK IN YOUR TRIGGER PULL. :)

for a neat trick, adjust it so that the gun fires electronically about 1mm before the trigger hits the trigger rod manually when the selector switch is in the manual position. this will get you that neat "sweet spot" full auto effect. 16+bps everytime. :D

[rdb123]

Originally posted by ReTroMagBoy
ADJUST UR HES SENSOR MAGNET TO FIRE FURTHER BACK IN YOUR TRIGGER PULL. :)
\

By doing that, it would make my trigger pull in electro mode worse.

Anyway, so you're saying I should unscrew out my trigger rod until it's about 2mm from the back of the trigger?

[ReTroMagBoy]

yes its true your pull is longer if u do this, but when i owned my e-mag i always played with the electronics on but in manual mode because the e-mag doesnt have a backwards trigger stop anyways...i prefered a slight amount of play in the front with the crazy RT effect in the back where the HES sensor was being triggered.....i have a sound wave of it somewhere 16+bps strings with no effort.

*EDIT* dont mess with ur trigger rod.... :)

[Dave]

The trigger rod is harmless to play with if you understand the priciple of the matter, that there is room before and after the point of the gun firing and recharging that the trigger needs to move in order to have the system work correctly. The norm, which AGD just probably figured would be a good default, was 1/16" from the back of the trigger. You want to adjust the trigger rod in manual mode, since the act of soley the trigger rod is purely mechanical. I actually prefer my trigger rod closer to the trigger, about 1/64" or so...very tight. Now, think about it for awhile...it does absolutely nothing to the gun except change the feel in trigger travel....

You could have a trigger rod that is 4 inches long, but as long as you had a trigger operating it that was 1/16" of an inch from the rod itself, it would function exactly the same as if the rod was the standard length.

I think the only reason why AGD has a set length is because people don't really know how to adjust the trigger rod...and not that it really needs adjusting either, it just takes up slack. The trigger rod was not designed to function w/ a trigger stop and all that jazz. The rod length itself isn't that important...its all about the relation to the trigger. The only time when length become important is when it is too short, and you get misfires because you can't pull the trigger to pull the rod far enough to complete one full cycle and recharge.

So my advice is to adjust your trigger rod in manual mode, and make it 1/16" or a little closer ( but not quite touching) and from there, mess w/ Emode. When I owned my Emag, the trigger rod was too short...and it wasn't causing misfires, but it kept Level 10 from working correctly. If you have to pull the trigger 4 mm before anything happens...you may wanna check that out:p

Ok, sorry for rambling...I had all this trigger rod talk in me and it needed out!!:D

-Dave

[rdb123]

Originally posted by Dave
...If you have to pull the trigger 4 mm before anything happens...

Well, see, since I have the HES set to about a 1mm trigger pull, I'm used to only having to pull my trigger that much before I let off of it. Since the rod is maybe 4mm back from the back of the trigger, I don't usually feel the reactivity that Hybrid is supposed to give.

Thanks, I'll try adjusting my rod some though. It works great in Manual right now, but I just wish I would get more kick out of Hybrid.

-Ron

[Dave]

yeah, if you get the trigger rod out to 1/16" or 1/32" away from the trigger in pure manual, it should work fine in hybrid.

-Dave

[rdb123]

Originally posted by Dave
yeah, if you get the trigger rod out to 1/16" or 1/32" away from the trigger in pure manual, it should work fine in hybrid.

-Dave

Ok cool thanks for the tip. Any suggestions on how to screw this thing out?? I took pliers to it to try to turn it and it won't budge. I started to scrape off metal so I stopped.

-Ron

[ReTroMagBoy]

the thing is, if u adjust the trigger rod too far forward, u may start pulling it in E mode as well....... :(

thats why i just moved the HES sensor further back, its easy to hammer on it when you pull it back far and then just twitch ur finger against the backstop to make it fire or in hybrid mode, against the trigger rod resulting in insane trigger bounce. :D

[classicmagplayer]

Couldn't you just adjust the trigger rod so that it is almost touching the rear of the trigger, when you have your trigger pulled all the way back in e-mode.

Say you have a 1mm trigger pull in emode. Leave 1.2mm gap between the trigger and the rod. This would mean you have to pull the trigger 1.2 mm to get reactivity in hybrid mode.(1.2 is just a number I made up)

I just used a pair of vice grips on the first one I adjusted, but my friends was real tight. So I heated it with a lighter(not real hot) and twisted it. You got to clamp down on it fairly hard to keep it from turning.

You probably want to put some locktite on it as your turing it in or out, so it doesnt turn later on. Keep track of how many turns you turn it, so you can put it back if you screw it up.

[rdb123]

classicmagplayer, is that how you have your Emag set up? Does it work well like that?

-Ron

[classicmagplayer]

<---too poor for an emag, or even an rt

I shoot a classic mag :D best 'gun ever made

Thinking about it though, thats the best way I can think of. Unless you are only shooting in hybrid mode. THen I would adjust the sensor so that it fires as soon the trigger hits the trigger rod, then you would be able to sweet spot it easily.

[ChucktheMAGician]

I have a blade trigger on my emag and it wails in hybrid. Just adjusted the trigger. I'm pretty sure that someone mentioned in another post about possible damage to the solenoid from adjusting the trigger rod. Get an adjustable Centerflag tank and enjoy:)

[classicmagplayer]

Having an adjustable tank wont help...you still have to pull the trigger till it comes in contact with the rod to feel the kick of the rt.

I dont see how adjusting the trigger rod would hurt the solenoid, as long as you didnt make the rod so long that the plunger hits the bottom of the solenoid. Maybe you mean the clevis where the plunger attaches to the sear?

[ChucktheMAGician]

Originally posted by classicmagplayer
Having an adjustable tank wont help...you still have to pull the trigger till it comes in contact with the rod to feel the kick of the rt.

Well the Timmy trigger does have a set screw that pushes the whole trigger back further instead of just the magnet. Perhaps I'm crazy but isn't adjusting the input pressure is the most used way to adjust reactivity?!:)

[rdb123]

Chuck, I'm not actually trying to get more kick out of the trigger; I'm trying to get SOME kick. ;)

-Ron

[classicmagplayer]

Originally posted by ChucktheMAGician

Well the Timmy trigger does have a set screw that pushes the whole trigger back further instead of just the magnet. Perhaps I'm crazy but isn't adjusting the input pressure is the most used way to adjust reactivity?!:)

It would be nice to have set screws to adjust the starting point of the trigger, but with the magnetic trigger of the emag it would also change how hard the trigger is to pull.

Yeah, changing the input pressure will change the reactivity, but it wont help if you have to pull the trigger 5mm instead of just pulling it 2. You know what I mean?

Adjusting the trigger rod is a pain, you have to gas up the marker, test fire it a couple times, degas, tear it all down, adjust the rod, and start all over again. If there was a simpler way, a lot of people would do it. I have my classic set up so that you can just see light between the trigger and the rod(less than 1/32 of an inch) and have a trigger stop...at the bottom of the trigger I have about a 3mm trigger pull(single trigger). Any less and it would either wear the bolt down, or cause shootdown. I have ran it this way for about 2 years now with no problems.

Emags are basically the same as any other mag other than a solenoid. You want to have the e mode fire without the trigger hitting the rod, but you want the rod to be extremely close to the end of the pull in e mode. The closer it is to the end of the e-pull, the less you will have to pull it to feel the kick in hybrid. Hope that made sence.

[ReTroMagBoy]

guys who are suggesting upping the input pressure.....

his prob has nothing to do with that...its the fact that in hybrid mode his electronics are being activated, firing the marker too early in the trigger pull so that there is a huge gap between the activation point and the trigger rods return...resulting in a useless effect. moving the electronic firing sequence closer to the trigger rod results in alot of trigger bounce.

[BajaBoy]

rdb123, any luck? im haven the same problem.. and how are you going about messing with the rod? cuz say u take the valve out and puch the sear down.. it will go far enouph that it his the trigger (with no adjustments) So like how would you know how far to move it?

like as in i know how far to put it from the trigger WHEN gassed up.. but is there a way to do it with out gas?

[rdb123]

Bajaboy, I'm taking mine to Extreme Rage tomorrow; the tech there should be able to do it. I'll keep you posted.