Whats Happening to AGD?

[Paintcheck200]

Yo,
Long time no post.. I use to be regular visitor but been pretty busy. Got talking to some guys about my mag and they noted to me you can hardly buy them anywhere anymore???? I looked all over in APG, couldn't find.. Looked on web, couldn't find.. whats the dillio? why are different places dropping the mag? I'm beginning to get worried :( .. Don't die on me d*mnit

[Torbo]

its because mags are too nice for everyone else to deal with. They feel threatened.

[Torbo]

im just kidding there, i would also like to know.

[Lakeview Bulldog]

I too have seen very few stores selling them. I know you can pick them up a pbgear.com for sure. I don't think that Mags are fading out. They just aren't mass marketed like low end markers and super flashy electros. I would like to think that Mags are for people who know a little more about paintball and are not seduced by flashy magazine ads and shiny low end guns that they sell at paintball fields everywhere.

[ZAust]

just because youve seen a couple stores stop carrying the automag doesnt mean it is dead, not by a longshot. this website and the agd forums on pbreview are evidence that the automags is alive and well, and i think when xmag production gets smoothed out you will see an explosion of popularity. those who cant afford an xmag will want an automag one way or another, and will probably look into buying an rt pro or classic. the cocker threaded ule bodies and the ule trigger are just some of the steps agd is taking to make the automag more accesible to the mainstream.

[e mag]

i don't know for sure, and i haven't seen any sort of sales figures, but i would guess it is because they don't sell very well do to the plain design. the aesthetic apeal of a gun is influential to a lot of people, and the ol' steel tube doesn't apeal to them. with the x-mag and ule bodies out however, the mag is looking better and will probably start to sell more.

[GT]

you can sell products 2 ways.

1. advertising (hype) or,
2. R&D new products (anti-hype)

which one is AGD?

jb:cool:

[reefer madness]

like it or not stores just arent carrying much agd stuff anymore(at least nt around here) out of 3 paintball sores in my town only one carries anything agd (they have ONE level 10) if you were new and walked in you would think people only shoot spyders or cockers. agd is kinda small compared to some of the other companies in the industry

[Potatoboy]

Yeah, this is a problem that's all too common.

I noticed it really bad in Michigan too, that's why I got a job at a paintball store and now we carry more AGD products than you can shake a stick at!

:D

If you're in the Metro Detroit area, you should stop in some time.

[automan39]

i def don't think they r out and i think alot of stores don't sell them since there is pratically no assecories until recently for them and thats where they get their money.

[lawman1380]

Most of the things you can get for a mag are available on their online store and with all the new things agd is doing, it's better to just piece a gun together. I don't think to many people are going to buy the old classics and minimags anymore.

[BlackVCG]

AGD is small and still has a small market exposure in TODAY'S market, but keep in mind that they sold about 100,000 Mags and they're out there somewhere. Most of them are in people's closets, but with the recent introduction of all of the new upgrades and most notably Level 10, a lot of these guns are getting the dust wiped off them and put back into action. This is making a lot of dealers see Mags in a different way and they're ordering more stuff from AGD.

It's not like it use to be, but they're getting more exposure as time goes on...

[Recon by Fire]

You can expect to see more AGD advertising in the future. During my visit a few weeks ago, I saw some advertsing pieces they were working on. Sexy spokesmodel too :)

[circus5]

well, i guess agd is doing a lot of sales directly these days, people ask around about mags, get refered to AO, then buy from the online store. as for mags being for *POOF*... a feild owner who has been accused of making similar statements said this to me yesterday actually. at risk of the thread being closed:rolleyes: i'll not mention his name. jersey people know who im talkin about.

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

the other day they called me a mag *POOF* at the field, well too bad that once i get my emag back, they'll all have xmags on order :D

[-=Squid=-]

Originally posted by Lakeview Bulldog
Mags are for people who know a little more about paintball and are not seduced by flashy magazine ads and shiny low end guns that they sell at paintball fields everywhere.

Thats a pretty ignorant comment to make.

[spacedtedybear]

Mags are quite... well i wouldn't say popular, but they are well recieved where I am from. My local shops carry the standard mags and the RT pro. An Emag disappeared from the wall not too long ago. People who say *POOF* about mags are ignorant people who simply don't have the intelligence to handle one.

[PaintballSmurf13]

I've seen it happening a bit around here (Sacramento,CA) but not too bad though. There is only one shop that i've seen that carries classics, minimags, and has a good selection of upgrades and parts. But ive seen a couple with x-mags (they're gone now of course). I'm pretty lucky though. The shop that corries the good selection is owned my Oh Pawlak(im not sure on the spelling)..and iv heard that he's a good friend of Tom Kaye.

[graycie]

lately it seems like there are "pockets" of mag owners/users in certain geographic areas, unlike cockers,angels, etc. that seem to be more widely used and spread out through the country.

[nuclear zombie]

well it's not what happening to AGD it's what happened to AGD . Most people are just remembering that they forgot about the mag ...

From what I've heard at the rumor mill, AGD made the mag sometimes in the early nineties , it was a huge hit . For a while it was the angel of it's day , AGD then focused on making paintball related items for the government and then came the autococker . Which allowed people to modify and customize their guns like never before , over time it came to be the gun to have, it constantly evolved becoming better every year. The automag remained nearly the same until the release of the RT I think about 97 , it required HPA only , and in 97 I don't even recall my local field having HPA. Which brings us up to now ,AGD is is working their way back to the top.

But then again this is just what I've heard ,if anyone else knows differently it would be nice to know:)

[BlackVCG]

Well the Cocker has been around much longer than your description makes it sound like. The Cocker and the Mag were the two tournament guns in the mid 90's. The RT came around in 97, and about the same time, the LED Angel was being released. At $1400 it was a bit out of reach of most people and the skepticism over electronic guns was still pretty prevelant. After AGD released the RT, they pretty much went into hiding and worked on the military project. Come 2000, AGD starts to get back into the paintball industry and comes here to get input from players and provide online tech support. They buy this forum and in the process end up creating one of the largest paintball forums on the net.

[Phil]

The answer to your question is simple. AGD has not kept up with the times. It took them forever to notice that people wanted color choices. How long did it take them to make a 2x trigger frame? I wish they would redesign their valve or come up with a totally new marker design instead of frankensteining the old technology. I would be first in line.

[Kevmag]

Originally posted by Phil
I wish they would redesign their valve or come up with a totally new marker design instead of frankensteining the old technology. I would be first in line.

I doubt anyone would disagree with you that AGD has not kept up with the trends until say 2000 or so. They have done an excellent job in catching up (and surpassing) the field.

What in particular should be changed in your opinion? The valve works great! Why change it? I wish there was a nice one piece AL body/rail combo, but I'd want a retro or x valve in there! Why change for change's sake?

[Phil]

I would hardly say that AGD has surpassed the competition. You can't slap a cool looking body on an E-Mag and pretend that it is some amazing new marker. Performance wise they are identical.

Here is what I would change;
*gas efficient marker.
*lower input pressure so I will have more useable gas in my tank. IF you have to put 800-900 into a gun then thats almost one third of a 3k tank!
*smooth shooting marker. The current valve design creates an undesireable vibration when the bolt impacts the mainbody.
*comfortable gripframe.
*comfortable foregrip.

[MarkM]

Originally posted by Kevmag


I doubt anyone would disagree with you that AGD has not kept up with the trends until say 2000 or so. They have done an excellent job in catching up (and surpassing) the field.

What in particular should be changed in your opinion? The valve works great! Why change it? I wish there was a nice one piece AL body/rail combo, but I'd want a retro or x valve in there! Why change for change's sake?
Because in it's current usage a design flaw in the way it resets has allowed a trigger bounce issue and as such all major events have jumped on AGD products....the KISS principle that AGD employs is great but then to move to a totally new marker design, would it still be a 'mag? There have been a lot of threads started or answered by AGD himself regarding trigger mods, bodies, bolts (LX) etc but the two areas that haven't really been looked at are the two most expensive, the Valve and the way that air gets to the valve. I don't blame AGD for leaving this part until last but I'm sure he and his little elves are looking at doing something. At the very least the Mag was designed as a semi-auto not a converted pump marker...but other designs have gone that step further but when you get right down to it they are all based on a twin tube principle wether they are vertically stacked or diagonally opposed and they have seperated the valve components AGD still keeps the components together. The thing that makes me smile is that both the Emag and the electro-cockers are both (in very slight different ways) both effectively sear trippers (emag on/off trip, E-Blade sear trip) but everyone came down hard on the bolt-on grips, dissmissing them as just sear trippers...ok one frame ruined the mags bolt so then that wasn't a good idea but you surely see what I mean. The other makes of markers of which there are more than a couple all employ electronics to move the internals about and they do not have sears involved. Given that the demand for the X Mag is so large it will be a very very long time before AGD is able to release a product that will address all of the issues in the current product and so a new marker is a long way off appearing. My personal take on the Mag (lumping all types of mag together here) is that AGD is a work in progress and as such things are heard about here before they are on full release and often not ready either...ULE body detents a good example, it got fixed but not before a whole slew of people whined...unfairly I feel, you got what you asked for and an error was made, thats how things progress. But because of this work in progress "you" as forum users and marker users can influence how the work progresses..wether or not the input is of a high enough quality or cost effective is another conversation entirely as AGD has had his fingers burnt on more than one occasion (roller trigger, the most recent).I own mags, cockers and other electro's so I don't have a downer on any in particular, I just felt that a step outside to view what some of you are saying was called for so hence this post.

[Hexis]

Originally posted by Phil
The answer to your question is simple. AGD has not kept up with the times. It took them forever to notice that people wanted color choices.

Really? Because my Minimag that I got in 1996 has green parts that are stock.

I think Phil's perspective is quite limited.

[Kevmag]

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I'm satisified with the current performance of the E-Mag. I've always found effiecency fine and recoil not a bother (but I've always shot mags or tippmans). I guess the latter might be more of an issue if you're coming from other markers.

While I agree there is always room for improvement (esp. with issues like efficiency) I would hope it would be addressed with an upgrade of the current valve rather than require a new marker. It would save me having to buy a new marker. I believe increased efficiency will be addressed with a modification to the existing bolt/valve. Recoil was reduced from the L7 bolt to the Superbolt & L10 bolt.

I would agree somewhere down the road a new valve will be needed, I just don't think that time is now.

I think issues like weight and comfort/form are more important now than upgrading the valve.


Originally posted by Phil
I would hardly say that AGD has surpassed the competition. You can't slap a cool looking body on an E-Mag and pretend that it is some amazing new marker. Performance wise they are identical.

Here is what I would change;
*gas efficient marker.
*lower input pressure so I will have more useable gas in my tank. IF you have to put 800-900 into a gun then thats almost one third of a 3k tank!
*smooth shooting marker. The current valve design creates an undesireable vibration when the bolt impacts the mainbody.
*comfortable gripframe.
*comfortable foregrip.

[hitech]

BTW, I can shoot the tank down to about 500psi with my level 10 emag. Just because the input pressure is set at 800 doesn't mean that it stops shooting there.

[spacedtedybear]

Here is what I would change;
*gas efficient marker.
*lower input pressure so I will have more useable gas in my tank. IF you have to put 800-900 into a gun then thats almost one third of a 3k tank!
*smooth shooting marker. The current valve design creates an undesireable vibration when the bolt impacts the mainbody.
*comfortable gripframe.
*comfortable foregrip.


* I don't know about your marker, but I can get at least 1100 shots out of my 88/30k tank before velocity starts to drop
* If you have an adjustable tank you can lower the input down to 500psi and it would still fire. Remember that the reg on the mag lowers any input pressure down to 500psi, and it uses that pressure to fire the gun. It is a misconception that mags are high pressure guns when in reality, its a medium pressure gun. Low pressure doesn't mean your marker is gas efficient IE. Shocker.
* I've shot mags, impulses, angels, cockers, etc... they all produce some sort of vibration and recoil when they fire.
* Intelliframe
* Unless everybody's hand is identical to one anothers, then there is no universally confortable foregrip.

[Dayspring]

FYI-

Low pressure input? The mag wants a minimum of 600psi input. Anything over that is gravy. And the higher the input on the X-Valve/ReTro valve, the higher the reactive kick. (That's a good thing.)

Gas effecient? I can get through 6-7 140 round pods, full Halo-B and Warp feed on my Level 10 Xmag and 68/4500 tank.

Smooth shooting? 'Mags have the lightest reciprocating mass in all of paintball. You can argue that one of the cocker's delrin bolts is lighter. Same with the Impulse. BUT, those delrin bolts are attached to a hammer of some sort. There's more moving mass than the Mag. More moving mass = more recoil.

Comfortable gripframe? Mags came out with the Z-Grip and now the Y-Frame. Everybody went crazy for the Space Frame when WDP did them. They just didn't go as far as AGD did with the angle from the 45 frame. And now, the I-Frame upgrade comes with the Dye Sticky Grips which people are wanting.

Comfortable foregrip? That all depends on what gun we're talking about here. Minimags and classics can be fit with any one you can find on the market. RT Pro & RT have nice ones. Finger grooves and all. Emag/Xmag/SFL- that's the battery. The solenoid size that AGD uses requires a battery of that size to give the amp requirement it needs. I'd rather have a larger battery and REALLY dependable solenoid than a 9v battery and cheap little 'noid.

[Farlow]

I have seen the same issue. Last year I went to buy an RT-Pro at the Dragon's Den in upstate NY, since they were on the list of authorized resellers, they said they no longer sell them because they are garbage and everyone they ever sold them to returned them for chopping. I bought one over the internet around x-mas time and went to ABC paintball field to experiment with it. I am a rec. woods type player, but joined in on the speedball type field and got laughed at because they stated the Mag would not work in the cold. I am yet to chop a ball and took out many angel marker using players that day (one actually tried to cheat and said I did not hit him, but yet there was a yellow and orange line going up the side his body. Still baffles me on that one.)

[hitmanng]

I have asked a number of pro shops this question and the simple answer is the high end mags are all custom ordered. If you want a white black fade they get you one. This means none sitting in the shops. I have brought this issue up with AGD a number of times. Every shop owner I know is happy to order me a mag but they don't keep them on the shelves. I can find a 68 and an RT in most shops.
I am not sure what the answer is except send posters to the shops so people know they can order mags there or some kind of consignment deal.
I would like to see more upper end mags in shops as I think it would help sales increadably.
Hitmanng

[Phil]

My E-Mag seems to be in good working order and yet I only get ~550 shots from a 68/3000 tank. I can shoot ~800 pballs with my IR3 and still have 800psi left in my tank. I used to put 600psi into my E-Mag pre-L10 but in order to get my gun to fire with L10 I had to crank the input pressure up to 900psi. My E-Mag is just about the most un-ergonomic marker I have ever held while my old style RT is the most comfortable I have ever owned. I am not an AGD hater. It is my hope that AGD will resolve the issues. I would like an AGD marker to be my main gun again.

[Paintcheck200]

Thx for all the input guys,
I would probably been able to pick up on this but I've been out of the loop for about 9 months. I'm happy to see so many responses. I'm one of the many happy Mag RT owners with LvL 10 that has had 0 <<----- =) breaks since I got it. Its just really hard to convince other players of the AGD quality. I suspected it was the Low profile AGD has but didn't wanna say anything till I asked. I would really like to see a nice add In APG for the x-mag