Should referees get $$$ tipped?

[Tyger]

I'm asking this becasue of something from a few weeks ago.

While reffing a few weeks ago, the private group I was reffing offered me a tip at the end of the day. I declined it, saying it was field policy not to take them,but the more I thought about it, the more I wondered.

Pros : It's money. :) It's a hard job, and you tip caddies for the service.

Cons : It's almost a bribe, and paintball is a sport, not a service industry, right?

I don't know, I figured I'd put it up for debate.

-Tyger

[Punisher]

....meh.....take the cash ya crooked huckster! Go ahead......take yer dirty money and run! Yeah...you and your bunny suit too!




....woo boy! I gotta lay off the caffene after 1am!

[Miscue]

$5 = One favorable call for you next time.

$10 = One unfavorable call for opponent next time.

[Vert]

If its for a private group(birthday party, corporate event, etc.) then yes take the tip otherwise no.

[shartley]

Refs and caddies can not be compared. One can decide a winner, the other can’t.

I think that a general tip box could be set up for ALL the refs and then the money divided at the end of the day. Blind tipping is fine for it does not introduce the potential for impropriety.

Now, if it is a private game, and BOTH sides tip the same amount or as a group, that is fine too IMHO.

I think Refs should get paid in accordance to their experience and skills… by the field, and not by tips. And it is up to the Ref to determine if they want to work for that pay. If they DO, than it is their decision. Tips are normally for better service or preferential treatment, and that is why Refs should not be directly tipped. Any job or position that involves “enforcement” of rules or involves making judgments calls on those rules can not, and should not, be allowed to accept tips (or direct tips at least).

[Mr Pink]

If it's a punter/walk-on day then Yes - Refs should be able to be tipped (It's a service job at that level, and would perhaps encourge Refs to care for their group a little more)

Tourneys on the other hand - a Resounding NO! Can you imagine the chaos tipping a Ref after you've just beaten a team:rolleyes::D

[JEDI]

For rec ball, I say tip away! Nothing is really on the line, and most of the time private groups are friends anyway. Even if its a walk on day, I'd take a tip. Generally its after the day of play, when no harm will be done. If you're crooked to the point that you'll remember walk on players that that tipped you, and return to play again, the money isnt the problem. Your morals and values are.

Now, for tournament play I say NO!!!! It would be too messy, and cheating will happen. No way!!!

[Thordic]

Getting tipped BEFORE the day starts: Bad.

Getting tipped AFTER the day is over: Fine. All the calls are made, they aren't buying favor since play is done.

[funkmunky56]

I'm with Thordic on this one... definitely not good to accept tips beforehand, but afterwards? HECK YEAH. Especially if you're reffing a private party that includes an at-risk teens group and their adult "handlers"... as happened at my field a few weeks ago. I prob'ly woulda complained if they HADN'T tipped my fellow refs who were assigned to them, after all the B.S. they had to go through with kids shooting each other in the backs, lifting EACH OTHERS masks, running through the woods PAST the field with rental gear, and us not knowing if they're coming back with it... etc.

as it was, each of the two refs got 30 bucks from the adult leaders at the end of the day, a hearty handshake, and definite expressions of gratitude from some obviously overstressed folks... :D


OBVIOUSLY, no tipping at tourneys. But, again, did that really need to be said? --Dave

[Kevmaster]

if its a private rec ball game, i accepted tips. I prolly got $20-25 in tips at the end of the day. My bosses (before I became the boss and stopped it) told people on the phone that "tips were expected" for the refs....just like waiters or caddies. Thats all fine and dandy for a big group coming to a field. they all chip in a buck or two at the end of the game and tip me for helping them. no way that could be turned into me being paid off

however, tourny ball, there should be no tipping whatsoever. Look to basketball or baseball as a precident. No player/coach gives the reffs ANY money because that would be 1) bribing the ref and 2) at the least favoring the ref

[JAM]

I agree, if the reffing was done well, why not tip 'em... it's not like they make a ton of money doing it.

[Mossman]

Tipping a ref never even occurred to me, but I don't see why a ref shouldn't accept it (especially from a private group). Around here all the fields make a killing anyways, I can hardly afford paint let alone tipping a ref, and I've only been in a private group once (last weekend, with Joey D). In that case, when it costs a grand for 12 people to play, I don't think we should be expected to tip the refs, after 250 of that goes to paint theres plenty to go to running the field and hooking the refs up.

[Splathappy]

Yea for recball tipping the reffs at the end of the day is way cool. The reffs at rec feild are pretty much there to make sure your safe and r having fun, and for the most part they dont get paid all that much..

[Maglover2k]

I would take it, my field around here doesnt pay to well so why not take the extra cash.

[Jonno06]

i wouldnt take the tip either way.:)

[adam shannon]

ive seen refs get tipped, unfortunately not the game i was working. alot of private games at the field i work at are corporate affairs or wealthy buisness types who are blowing off steam. these folks are used to tipping bellboys, cabbies, maitre'd's, caddies...etc. and the nature of the game outside with an employee who is responsive to your needs and walks you from game to game ive heard them accidentally refer to the ref as "our caddie". given the proper circumstances a tip at the end of the day is appropriate if the group sees fit to do so.

some guys feel wierd accepting a tip...like its begging or smething. its not, its the way the other half of the world operates...its customary and not a big deal for the tipper and tippee. i mean dont stand there with your hand out and clear your throat like a bellboy...but if they offer, take it with a thank you!

when the parking lot is packed with excursions, escalades, and H2's...take the tip.

[SlipknotX556]

I do think that if refs get offered a tip, they should accept it. Why? Well for one, they are out in the sun all day, in a mask, also they get shot to make sure that your game is going smoothly.

[Carbon]

I think in a rec ball/ Private game the refs should take the tip money after the game.

But as a person/ref, you should not expect it. As a reff its your JOB and #1 priority to make sure everyone is SAFE. Thats what your paid for. yeah it can be a difficult and stressfull job, what service-type industry isnt? No one is forcing you to work under those conditions. Dont feel guilty taking the tip either, they offered it.

If the customer notices that you are doing hard work, or workin harder than the other field staff, you shouldnt be ashamed of getting more tip money than the other reffs.

Food service industry, yall oughta try it some time. It'll change your prespective somewhat.

As for Pro/tourney games, well duh, of course not. MLB Umpires dont get tipped, or any pro sports official for that matter.

[.bolink]

I was actually wondering about this the other day. I was cleaning a table where I work (waitor at small Italian eatery) and was like, "Wow thatd be way cool if people tipped me when i'm reffing". I mean I get paid in paint...and get a good amount for 6 hours worth of work (1500rnds) but I gotta have some spending cash. I mean what good is a stockpile of 6000 rnds in the corner of my room when I only play every other weekend for team practice ( I must say it is reallky nice being able to be overly generous with your paint, especially to your back guys.

[tazman]

Hi:

As a longtime referee I feel very flattered when a group offers a tip at the end of the day. To me this states they appreciate the time and effort you took with them and want to show it. Often times at the end of the day people walk away without even saying "thanks", so these rare occasions are very appreciated.
Just my 2 cents.

[Wickster]

I agree with Thordic as well.

I used to ref pretty often (at Skirmish) a few years ago. They get mostly private groups, so sometimes refs would get a tip, sometimes not. Usually the refs doing walk-ons didn't get tipped. It never seemed a problem, except that sometimes some refs wondered if specific refs were given specific groups who were more likely to tip.

The memories come back......

Check him ref! I hit his foot! Check him! I run across one side of the woods to the other..... then back....

Take the money, you earned it (if you did a good job).

[jaylock33]

On private games refs should take tips if they are offered them. Their job isn't the easiest and when it's done well they should be rewarded.

[TheJester]

it's only a bribe if it's before the game. if it's after the day's over, what's the harm? what calls are you going to make when the playing is over?

[Halliday]

RecBall: sure
TourneyBall: no way

[logamus]

for private parties i see no problem with tipping the ref. but for regular walk ons, if someone tips on a regular basis there is a good chance that someone might get a few calls to go their way. for walk ons, i like shartlys idea of a tip box that can just be split up at the end of the day. most refs i know dont work for cash so a few bucks at the end of the day might be encentive enough to do even better the next time they ref.

[pito189]

If it is at the end of the day, I don't see any problem with it at all. Other than that, tell them Thank You, and get back to work. :)

[deathstalker]

Originally posted by shartley
Refs and caddies can not be compared. One can decide a winner, the other can’t.My "foot wedge" and I strongly disagree.:D I can't tell you how many times I've said the words, "That sure did come close to going out of bounds!" or "Another foot to the right and you wouldn't have a shot!" ;)

However, and I voted the same, it all depended on the situation. I spent about 13 years of my life working at an exclusive golf course in various functions, many as a caddy. Much of the club's revenue was generated from guest play ($75-$125 for guest greens fees) and there were a few members who brought upwards of 15 guests a week. I guarantee you most of those players had 5-10 strokes a round taken off their score. The sponsoring member was good business for the club and he wanted to make sure his guests had a great time. We were happy to oblige.

We routinely kicked balls out from behind trees, kicked them back in play, scooped them out of the water, and shortened putts by the way way we marked balls. You only did it when the situation presented itself and you never did it if there was a chance you would get caught. We all knew the course very well and how long it would take players to come into view after hitting their shots. We were always paid handsomely and our little arrangement was always "understood" between us. There was sometimes a little innuendo ("foot wedge" comments were common), but we were never told to do it nor did we ever tell the members we did.

I was considering voting flat out "No" and the reason is I have seen that the people who tip better receive preferential treatment. At the golf club, no member was ever mistreated, but some were definitely treated better than others. I blame the employees for this and can easily see it happening at a paintball field. If refs are routinely compensated through tips, they might purposely cheat in hopes of getting a bigger tip. I'm all for having a good time and giving rec players the benefit of the doubt in close calls, but I still want a fair game.

If tipping at a field becomes prevalent, I would much rather pay a couple extra dollars for field fees and be told uip fromt that this money will go directly to the refs. This is similar to restaurants automatically adding a gratuity to large parties.

[Warewolf50]

After reffing at my local field for about 2 years, i think that refs should be tipped. I didnt really mind that just generla recballers didnt tip, it was the private groups that should tip. I am saying this cause the place i reffed only paid in paint, which is good at saving money when playing but I never had any money off the field.

[Blazestorm]

I reffed once and the fact that this group was a bunch of rehab kids in their late teens. The fact that they were jackasses to eachother and when I was 6-7 years younger than them... they were kind to me. After that day they each personally thanked me for being their ref, said it wouldn't have been the same without them (I cleaned their barrels before the game... cleaning 10 spyders... aint fun) But they had a better day with me reffing. I think getting personally thanked, seriously made my day. I missed playing that entire day, but I didn't care, I had a great time reffin.

It depends on the group, if they were utter jackasses and didn't listen to me or anything, I would accept a tip, but if they were like the first group, I wouldn't.

[madmatt151]

I always tip, mainly because the refs work hard and Iusually bring a big rowdy group to play on the field. I have have refs that weren't so cool and acted fairly unenthused, but I still tipped them. THe last game I organized, there was someone who came with my bunch of guys and he was a NIGHTMARE! He did everything wrong, every safety rule broken etc. The finallt took his stuff and told im to leave, but not after a loooong day. I personally gave the refs $40 plus the $2-3 I collected form each person. It just seems right, especially when I was a waiter for 4 years!

[hitmanng]

I cannot vote in the poll for some unknown reason that webbie cannot figure out.

I have tipped a field before but never a ref. After private play these people came out here when they normally wouldn't and showed us a good time and had a good field and great refs. I paid the owner more than the agreed upon amount to encourage the continued quality of service. I do not think that the ref makes the day in paintball.

I also do not think a ref should take a tip personally but recomend that they give it to the field owner and mention that the ref did a great job.
Hitmanng

[circus5]

Tipping a ref never even occurred to me, but I don't see why a ref shouldn't accept it (especially from a private group). Around here all the fields make a killing anyways, I can hardly afford paint let alone tipping a ref,
a feild may make a killing, but they typically dont share very well. a typical starting ref makes about $6 an hour, thats less than $50 for an 8 hour day of hard work. I've been reffing awhile and make a bit more, but still, the feild owner is taking a vacation every other month, and i can barely pay my car insurance.
I have reffed almost every weekend for the last 4 years, and im comfortable saying im damn good at it. when I carry a billion cases of paint up the giant hill, clean everybodies gun 5 times cause they keep picking up wet, swollen paintballs off the ground, hurdle bunkers to do checks, give up my lunchbreak because they decided to come in late and dont wanna stop, and generally put up with a lot of crap from players, I think i deserve a bit more than the pitance refs are paid.

I have tipped a field before but never a ref. After private play these people came out here when they normally wouldn't and showed us a good time and had a good field and great refs.
This sounds ok for a small owner-operated feild, but for a larger place like PDI, Cousins, or skirmish, the feild owner is really not in need of a few extra bucks. I the ref, however, could really use that money for school books. The owner of my feild is actually on site maybe once a month, and has almost nothing to do with the day-to-day of the business

[SyntaxError]

Part of my team's deal at Shooters Paintball is that we help out every once in a while, and while reffing about 2 weeks ago, a generous group of guys tipped me $15 for reffing and helping their group. It really made my day, if I was fortunate enough to have more money myself, I'd tip refs, they really do alot if they're doing a good job.

[Vert]

Hitmanng isnt tipping the field and not the ref like tipping the host and not the waiter.

[rhcp377]

tipping might lead to favoring one team over the other but if its at the end of the game or both parties do it equally then i think it may be alright. But i like the idea of a general tipping box

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

I think the refmakes a great deal of diference on how your day can go. I used to ref at my local outdoor and i've been tipped before and after the day. Tipping the ref for private games is harmless, and IMO, a good way to get him to do a little extra running around to make the day go smoother. I know i've always worked a little harder knowing i'd get rewarded for it. Besides, for rec ball, it's just a game. Who cares who wins/loses? Just play and have fun. If you can't take a nice day of woods ball and have a good time, you shouldn't be playing.

[JT2002]

Originally posted by deathstalker
This is similar to restaurants automatically adding a gratuity to large parties.
even though this isnt paintball related, this is one thing that i have to disagree with you on. imo, tips are supposed to be based on the quality of the service which you received. and i think that it is wrong for places to add a tip to the bill for you, because then, your not giving them something extra based on service, instead you are just paying an amount that the person who gave you the service is telling you, you must give to them, and that is wrong. the only one who should decide on whether or not to give a tip, and how much, is you and your group, the people who recieved the service. now i do think that restaurants and that a tip should always be left, but how much is left at the table should vary based on teh service you were given.

thats my 2 cents

[hitmanng]

Originally posted by Vert
Hitmanng isnt tipping the field and not the ref like tipping the host and not the waiter.

I think this does depend on the field. I play mostly on small privatly owned fields to be honest at least there the experiance is the owners work not the refs. He does all the saftey meetings himself. He makes sure the refs are getting good turn around etc. If I was on a big field that had lots of refs and we had one assigned to our private group that did a great job I could see tipping the ref after all was said and done.
I cannot see tipping for walk on play though as that is thier job and tipping in a tourney is definately inappropriate.
Hitmanng