can someone explain how this works?

[Jerhew]

how exactly is that pro-dot of any use whatsoever?

http://store2.yimg.com/I/proteam_1726_2123480

[McSweedish]

When you use both eyes it like eh, transfers to your other eye and stuff. I can't explain it hehe

[Mr. Grumble]

keep both eyes open.
look down range with one eye and through the sight with the other.
one eye 'sees' the field in front of you, the other 'sees' a blank area with a red dot floating in the middle of it (the sight picture)
your brain combines the two pictures to give you an image of the field with a red dot floating in it.
functions similar to a poor-man's heads-up targeting display.

Mr. Grumble

[Doc Nickel]

Technically it's called an "occluded eye gunsight" and the concept predates the illuminated red-dot type scopes by a good number of years.

With an OEG like the Armson or the very early Aimpoints, you don't look through the sight, like a telescope. Rather, the sight provides a black or at least dark background and superimposes a brightly-colored dot on it.

Your brain always sees two entirely different images of the world- assuming you have two eyes. Your brain combines these images and gives you what we call "depth perception".

However, the brain is also very good at filtering out extraneous information- for you glasses wearers, when's the last time you actually noticed your frames? For the rest of you, how long has it been since you realized you can actually see the side of your own nose?

Thus, what happens is literally, one eye is looking at the back of the sight, and seeing a black circle with a little bright dot in the middle of it. While the other eye sees an unimpeded view of the target.

Your brain combines these images, and since the target is important but the black circle is not, the brain essentially disregards that circle.

The practical result is, you see a clear, virtually unblocked view of the target, with a red dot sort of floating out in space (visually) indicating where the shot will go.

With practice, the sight is very fast to use- indeed, it was designed as a close-quarters-combat sight for submachine guns. But like any sight, the accuracy of the sight is orders of magnitude better than the accuracy of the paintball gun, and thus is something of a waste in this sport.

Doc.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Doc Nickel
Technically it's called an "occluded eye gunsight" and the concept predates the illuminated red-dot type scopes by a good number of years.

With an OEG like the Armson or the very early Aimpoints, you don't look through the sight, like a telescope. Rather, the sight provides a black or at least dark background and superimposes a brightly-colored dot on it.

Your brain always sees two entirely different images of the world- assuming you have two eyes. Your brain combines these images and gives you what we call "depth perception".

However, the brain is also very good at filtering out extraneous information- for you glasses wearers, when's the last time you actually noticed your frames? For the rest of you, how long has it been since you realized you can actually see the side of your own nose?

Thus, what happens is literally, one eye is looking at the back of the sight, and seeing a black circle with a little bright dot in the middle of it. While the other eye sees an unimpeded view of the target.

Your brain combines these images, and since the target is important but the black circle is not, the brain essentially disregards that circle.

The practical result is, you see a clear, virtually unblocked view of the target, with a red dot sort of floating out in space (visually) indicating where the shot will go.

With practice, the sight is very fast to use- indeed, it was designed as a close-quarters-combat sight for submachine guns. But like any sight, the accuracy of the sight is orders of magnitude better than the accuracy of the paintball gun, and thus is something of a waste in this sport.

Doc.
Good explanation Doc. :D

Did folks know however that not everyone has “depth perception”? The vast majority of folks do, but SOME don’t. I am such a person.

This has not negatively affected my life, nor was it something I even knew about until a couple years ago. I am an expert marksman, have always been outstanding at things that require determining distance, and all the other things you would think you NEED depth perception for. In fact, the only drawback seems to be that I can’t use those funny pictures that you stare at and things pop out at you (always thought everyone else was crazy.. LOL). But I can shoot with both eyes open, focus with either without closing the other one, and other nifty things….. of which I thought EVERYONE could do, but can’t.

Oh well… just thought some folks would find that interesting. The human mind and how our systems work is simply amazing.

[deathstalker]

I've never heard of that and do find it very interesting, Shartley. Has an optometrist or neurologist ever commented on it? I always thought that everyone who has vision in both eyes would have depth perception and stereoscopic vision. I would also think that lack of depth perception would also make some activities, especially driving, very unsafe because you cannot accurately judge the distance of objects in front of you.

I'd think the medical community would be very interested in you, unless this is something that is more common than one would think. You sound like you have lizard eyes. :D There's also a lot of us with stereoscopic vision who can't get those darn 3-D images either.:mad:

[shartley]

Originally posted by deathstalker
I've never heard of that and do find it very interesting, Shartley. Has an optometrist or neurologist ever commented on it? I always thought that everyone who has vision in both eyes would have depth perception and stereoscopic vision. I would also think that lack of depth perception would also make some activities, especially driving, very unsafe because you cannot accurately judge the distance of objects in front of you.

I'd think the medical community would be very interested in you, unless this is something that is more common than one would think. You sound like you have lizard eyes. :D There's also a lot of us with stereoscopic vision who can't get those darn 3-D images either.:mad:
Actually when I was in the service my eye doctor commented on my stigmatism (being it is almost exclusively found in Native Americans, of which I have liniage on one side of my family).

The service never tested my depth perception to my knowledge, or if they did they didn’t feel the need to tell me nor was it important for any job they had. And like I stated, I have always been rated an expert with all firearms. It never affected my ability to do anything. I think this is because there are almost always reference objects. The only time it would be a problem is if a person didn’t know the rough size of an object, and there were no other reference objects around to compare it to…. Such as seeing a dot of light in a total fog.

But as for driving, even those WITH depth perception would have difficulties in a situation that had no other reference objects (IE the fog thing). So again, it really isn’t an issue.

I have recently talked with optometrists (two of them) and they both noted how odd it was, but didn’t want to run right out and “study” me. ;) I think it happens enough that it isn’t unheard of, but its importance in our lives is so irrelevant for the most part that it isn’t worth the time to study… OR there already have been studies so no need now? Who knows.

I have never had problems judging distances and in fact tend to be even better than most people at it (again, as long as there are other visual references…. Which there ARE about 99.999999999999999999999 % of the time. ;)) and can stop my car as close to any object as I want. I think this is because I am such a visual person, and an artist. So, there is no danger there. :)

Lizard eyes! LOL Now THAT is funny! :D Yes, I guess in a way I do… but I can’t move them in different directions independently of each other. Now THAT would be cool. :)

So, I hope I have helped the misconception that not having depth perception means you can’t accurately judge distance. You can. And what is even MORE funny is that my first job in the service was a 13F (Fire Support Specialist)….. Forward Observer for the common person. And it is mostly about finding the enemy and calling in direct and indirect fire on them. LOL In other words you have to see the enemy and judge how far they are from YOUR location and use that to call in fire. ;) And I was VERY good at it.

[Jerhew]

hehe
actually this thread turned out to be much more informative than i expected to be honest...
i just thought it looked a little silly to have a sight that you can't see your target through
i mean, i get it now
but i always thought it was stupid to have a sight rail on a vert feed gun
i guess they're just there in case you want to have an oeg

i also agree that trying to aim a paintball gun with anything more than your naked eye is kind of a waste

[Doc Nickel]

Um, Sharts? If both your eyes function more or less properly and point more or less in the same direction, and you're not missing some ganglion that link the optic nerves to both the brain and each other, then you have fairly normal depth perception.

Merely not being able to see the "magic images" pictures hardly means you have a weird condition or no depth perception- the people who print them say that sometimes as many as half the viewers can't "make it work".

I'm sure you mean Astigmatism, the inability of the eye to focus properly, usually meaning due to a nonsymmetrical deformation of the cornea (as opposed to a properly shaped cornea, but with an improper, but uniform, focal length.)

"Stigmatism" is by definition "proper eyesight."

Astigmatism is simply a mild but terribly common condition where the cornea doesn't focus all the light to the same spot. Unlike a lens that's symmetrical, but too thick or too thin (so the focal point would be ahead of or behind the retina) the optometrist has to compensate for both the focal length error and the distortion when creating the lens of the glasses.

It's hardly a unique or strange condition, easily corrected, and doesn't in the least affect things like driving and shooting, etc.

Doc.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Doc Nickel
Um, Sharts? If both your eyes function more or less properly and point more or less in the same direction, and you're not missing some ganglion that link the optic nerves to both the brain and each other, then you have fairly normal depth perception.

Merely not being able to see the "magic images" pictures hardly means you have a weird condition or no depth perception- the people who print them say that sometimes as many as half the viewers can't "make it work".

I'm sure you mean Astigmatism, the inability of the eye to focus properly, usually meaning due to a nonsymmetrical deformation of the cornea (as opposed to a properly shaped cornea, but with an improper, but uniform, focal length.)

"Stigmatism" is by definition "proper eyesight."

Astigmatism is simply a mild but terribly common condition where the cornea doesn't focus all the light to the same spot. Unlike a lens that's symmetrical, but too thick or too thin (so the focal point would be ahead of or behind the retina) the optometrist has to compensate for both the focal length error and the distortion when creating the lens of the glasses.

It's hardly a unique or strange condition, easily corrected, and doesn't in the least affect things like driving and shooting, etc.

Doc.
Um, Doc…. What you posted is true, but NOT my entire situation. I have BOTH an “astigmatism” AND no depth perception (thank you for the correction). The two things are not the same in my case. And in fact the “astigmatism” that I have is not uncommon among Native Americans who happen to be the majority of people who exhibit its form… as I have mentioned.

And where did I say that because I couldn’t see the “magic images” was the reason I thought I had no depth perception? I simply did not. I said because of it I could not… and yes there are other reasons why someone would not be able to see them. That was not my point.

I understand that you think you THINK I don’t know what I am talking about, but let me point out that you did not understand what I actually said, and linked things together that I did not say. That’s quite alright though.

I was actually TESTED and what the optometrist found out was that I had no depth perception, it was not from a “magic images” test either. LOL But as soon as I was diagnosed with no depth perception the Doctor was the one who said “I bet you can’t see images in the magic images, can you.” And I laughed because it was true.

So please understand there is no merely about it, they are different issues but one caused the other in my case and I pointed it out.

Thank you for the lesson, but I live this and have talked with real doctors about it and while you are correct in your post, it does not apply to my situation.

[Jonno06]

those posts were too long to read^^ so if someone said it already..sorry.


roll up a piece of paper, put out one hand,and put the paper on the side of your hand. look throught the paper with one eye, and keep the other eye open. it will look like the paper goes right through your hand.

[Aegis]

At the ripe old age of 40, I went to see a real eye doc instead of the lenscrafter type. He asked if I had a problem with depth perception, to which I replied that I stink at basketball (cant shoot) and baseball (can't tell if a ball is going to land in front or behind) and also park by brail when trying to get the Suburban in the garage.

He came up with a prism grind on my glasses that made the world look 3D for a while. A HUGE difference. Like shartley said, estimating range for hunting, driving, etc no problem but there was a serious issue with depth perception.

Brian

[ignatz]

shartley - What do you see when you use the Armson sight? Does it work for you? What's the test for depth perception like?

[shartley]

Originally posted by ignatz
shartley - What do you see when you use the Armson sight? Does it work for you? What's the test for depth perception like?
I have never used the Armson sight. Sorry.

The test for depth perception is more than one test, it is multiple tests that together tell the doctor whether you have depth perception or not. Depending on what optometrist you have been to, you may have taken the same types of tests. They involve the standard “which block is closer to you” type stuff, eye examinations, lights, etc. I am not a doctor, so I am not an expert in how they do all the determinations. All I know is that they told me it, and they helped explain some of the things that I thought everyone could do with their eyes, but I guess they can’t.

I was told that my eyes don’t work well together, that is why they work so well separately (even in spite of my astigmatism being corrected). I was given all the standard tests with and without my glasses (again, that correct for my astigmatism) and the results were the same, aside from me being able to SEE them better. LOL

I was told that I process information a bit differently than most people but that because I have been doing so all my life, it isn’t a problem. I am also not a freak, or in some way better or worse than everyone else. Like I said, it is no real big deal. I just thought folks would find it interesting. This is not the first time I have talked about it on AO though.