My auto(cocking)-spyder

[xen_100]

ok, its not an AGD product, but I think it is cool.

what do you think?

http://www.hunt101.com/img/048976.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/img/048977.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/img/048979.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/img/048978.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/img/048980.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/img/048981.jpg

[AlabamaMan]

I'm not really sure what to say, except WOW.

Does it have any problems with shootdown, and can it stop on a ball?

Give us some details.

[Brak]

thats pretty amazing man, very cool thing you did there. but might i ask, why?

[Aliens-8-MyDad]

pic of the other side please i wanna see the ram...

[rehme]

:rolleyes:

[xen_100]

I am sure with the kingman reg set to 300PSI, it has some pretty bad shootdown.(I haven't shot any paint yet), but I will be replacing that with a AA messiah, or other high flow LP reg.

as for why......just because I can......;)

if you look at the back, where the beaver tail is, you will see the ram is mounted to the rear......no backblock. i tottaly auto-cocks internally. think blazer.

[Rynoboy06]

Reminds me of the Deadlywind RAIL spyders, same idea, parts mounted a little differently. I always say, if you're going to ghetto-fy something, make it a spyder. Good work!

[WickeDKlowN]

I'm thinking of doing something very similar. But it's going to be electro. :)

[nippinout]

Originally posted by rehme
:rolleyes:

You my friend are a tool.

xen, cool job, but we definetly need more pics and details.

I can put hose on my Spyder too! :D

Post in the Workshop Forum.

[FalconGuy016]

Thats awesome :)

[land hurricane]

What exactly do all those hoses do?

[sneakyhacker420]

what exactly do the pneumatics do that a spyder can't already do :confused:

[FalconGuy016]

Originally posted by sneakyhacker420
what exactly do the pneumatics do that a spyder can't already do :confused:

It will shoot like a cocker now, of course the spyder can shoot by itself...

[punkncat]

Looks to me like you added a bunch of unneccesary weight and complexity to a Spyder........

[xen_100]

Originally posted by sneakyhacker420
what exactly do the pneumatics do that a spyder can't already do :confused:

exactly, it will shoot like an auto-cocker. closed bolt.

I dont have alot of specifics so far. I need to go test it with paint. I can pull about 10 BPS on it so far.

I'll have to get some more picts once i get batts for the camera gain

[xen_100]

Originally posted by punkncat
Looks to me like you added a bunch of unneccesary weight and complexity to a Spyder........

absolutely! ;)

[JT2002]

well not really, cuz who else can say they have a closed bolt spyder? um. no one really, maybey deadlywind, but never seen it. all that stuff just gets rid of the cruddy spring blowback function of a spyder

[Jerhew]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by punkncat
Looks to me like you added a bunch of unneccesary weight and complexity to a Spyder........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



absolutely!

hehe
good answer

i like it even more now that you said that :D

[SIGSays]

hey man... that is pretty tight.. but i think it was a waste of money.. lol

[Jerhew]

Originally posted by xen_100
if you look at the back, where the beaver tail is, you will see the ram is mounted to the rear......no backblock. i tottaly auto-cocks internally. think blazer.

oh ok i just figured out what you meant
hehe
schweet

[xen_100]

Originally posted by JT2002
well not really, cuz who else can say they have a closed bolt spyder? um. no one really, maybey deadlywind, but never seen it. all that stuff just gets rid of the cruddy spring blowback function of a spyder


well I wouldn't say no-one......there are a few spyder cockers out there.......

the rail system is slightly different........it is basically a ram actuated bolt. the hammer is still blown back, just like a stock spyder. the bolt is controlled by the 3-way. Mine is actually a true auto-cocking system. I had to have a custom valve made for it that has NO blowback to it. if you fire the gun without the bolt in it, the hammer just smacks the valve and stops......no blowing back.

[Ov3rmind]

That's awesome, SpyderCockers are pretty rare too.

[sneakyhacker420]

kind of like an impulse or cocker valve?

[xen_100]

it is basically a cocker valve that is dimensioned to fit into a spyder.

[xen_100]

more picts!

you can see the way the bolt is slotted to cock the hammer in the 5th pict (kinda)

[Ryknow]

I think that is amazing. I really think its cool.. and the bo-bo ghetto superstar look makes it even better!

[coolcatpete]

So it looks cool and all but does it work? And how well does it shoot well? And last did it cost alot or not?

[xen_100]

it works really well.......I can pull about 8-10 BPS before I start to short stroke it.

I haven't shot it with paint yet, hopefully this weekend I will go play. I will let ya know how that goes.

well I got the spyder from my brother for free (a compact is about $50 new right now) and I spent $100 on the pnuematics. the barrel is from my other spyder, so I dont really count that...........so I guess $100.

[nicad]

Xen- interesting design. you might consider mounting the 4-way in front of the trigger frame (see pic).. its more out of the way and inline with the trigger which should prevent it from leaking when moved. Also, use a larger diameter ram (3/8" as opposed to the miniram).. that should give you more pull back on the hammer while minimizing forward pressure on the bolt. its reverse concept from a cocker..

this is a unit I sent to Aardvark for thier manufacturing consideration: :)
http://www.deadlywind.com/files/01300001s.jpg

[xen_100]

I thought about it, but I wanted to put it somewhere nobody has before, plus with the pnuematics in the rear, it makes for only one long hose instead of two.

as for the ram, it works great. a larger diameter ram wont give you any more pull than a smaller one. if the same amount of work is being done, then it is the same (even if the smaller piston has to operate at a higher pressure. the same amount of force is being placed on the ram shaft.)

also, theoretically, a smaller ram would be able to cycle faster. higher pressure, but less volume of air to evacuate for each cycle. (also the higher pressure differential would tend to want to equalize faster too :) )

[LittlePaintballBoy]

put a back block on there somehow, that would be so sweet.

[xen_100]

why? the whole point of putting the ram at the back is to get rid of the back block. to have a back block you have to have an extented bolt. more weight, more drag = slower cycle speed.

[LittlePaintballBoy]

but it would look cool!:D :p

[TigerMan]

That's awesome that you did that. Not many people want to take the time or energy to make something truely unique to their own. Props to you for doing that. :D

BTW, you still got that awesome Shutter?

[xen_100]

yup......still got it........dont play with it as much now that I have my mag biult, but I still have it.

[sneakyhacker420]

where'd you get the 90º 10-32 threaded air elbow for the LPR?

[nicad]

Xen-
your correct about the piston diameter vs. operating pressure. but what your not looking at is the size of the ram's shaft remains the same, and it takes away from the piston plunger surface area only on the front side.. the side you want the most force to recock with. the larger the piston, the less offset the shaft will play. numbers:

assume all ram shafts are the same (.125") which is true with the exception of palmers's and some other crazy ones.

surface area of shaft = 0.012 in^2
surface area of miniram (not exact but close to .25") = 0.049 in^2
surface area of typical cocker ram (.375") = 0.110 in^2

since the miniram's surface area is just about half of a normal ram's, you have to run almost double the pressure for the same force pushing OUT-

100 psi x 0.049 in^2 = 4.9Lbs of force for miniram.
44.5psi x 0.110 in^2 = 4.9Lbs of force for regual ram.

now at those pressures look at the force pulling IN (you have to subtract the surface are of the shaft 0.012in^2 from the plunger's surface area)-

100 psi x (0.049in^2 - 0.012 in^2) = 3.7Lbs of force for a miniram pulling in, or ~75% of the force pushing out.
44.5psi x (0.110in^2 - 0.012 in^2) = 4.3Lbs of force for a regular ram pulling in, or ~88% of the force pushing out.

sooooo... if you run a 3/8" cocker ram, you will have more pulling force vs. pushing force (i think 13% greater) as opposed to the miniram.

trust me, iv been there. :)
hope this helps.
out!

[sps16]

wow that thing is scary, but cool

[xen_100]

Originally posted by nicad
Xen-
your correct about the piston diameter vs. operating pressure. but what your not looking at is the size of the ram's shaft remains the same, and it takes away from the piston plunger surface area only on the front side.. the side you want the most force to recock with. the larger the piston, the less offset the shaft will play. numbers:

assume all ram shafts are the same (.125") which is true with the exception of palmers's and some other crazy ones.

surface area of shaft = 0.012 in^2
surface area of miniram (not exact but close to .25") = 0.049 in^2
surface area of typical cocker ram (.375") = 0.110 in^2

since the miniram's surface area is just about half of a normal ram's, you have to run almost double the pressure for the same force pushing OUT-

100 psi x 0.049 in^2 = 4.9Lbs of force for miniram.
44.5psi x 0.110 in^2 = 4.9Lbs of force for regual ram.

now at those pressures look at the force pulling IN (you have to subtract the surface are of the shaft 0.012in^2 from the plunger's surface area)-

100 psi x (0.049in^2 - 0.012 in^2) = 3.7Lbs of force for a miniram pulling in, or ~75% of the force pushing out.
44.5psi x (0.110in^2 - 0.012 in^2) = 4.3Lbs of force for a regular ram pulling in, or ~88% of the force pushing out.

sooooo... if you run a 3/8" cocker ram, you will have more pulling force vs. pushing force (i think 13% greater) as opposed to the miniram.

trust me, iv been there. :)
hope this helps.
out!

OK, I got ya.........I think I will stick with the mini for now. the main reason I went with it is cause I got it really cheap. al three parts(ram, LPR, 3-way) for $80.

[xen_100]

Originally posted by sneakyhacker420
where'd you get the 90º 10-32 threaded air elbow for the LPR?

palmers pursuit products. take a look at thier "fittings" section. they have lots of cool stuff in there.

[xen_100]

Well I got to play with it today........it is soo nice........shoots nice, but i need a better loader (was using a vl200 :) ) once i get a better reg and a drop for this, it will freakin rock!

it is very quiet too, I was suprised. I had to put the lightest main spring in it to even get it to chrono under 300FPS. even then I had the adjuster almost all the way out. of course that was at 350PSI, once I get the reg for it, I bet I will be able to turn it down to about 200-250 PSI.