** HELP: MiniMag vs Low End Electric Gun

[CastorTroy]

Can someone help me reason on why the mag is better then some of the lower end electric guns.(like the Icon or Spyder Xtra)? These guns have a high rate of fire and seem to be fairly accurate and are much cheaper?

You always hear about Mags in converstaions with the high end tourney guns like cockers angels ect..and I believe they are better guns, just want a better arguement in my head. (<---MiniMag Owner:))

[cdawg]

Minimags come with elves.

[coolcatpete]

mags have much more accuracy, they are dead quiet and they never break like spyder do every other day. They are also very upgradeable so they end up like an X-mag with a spyder you can make them into an E-spyder:rolleyes: so that is just my opinion I am sure there is other point of views.

[Cryer]

Your mag is more accurate, for one.
The main flaw in the blowback design is the kinetic energy expelled every time the marker cycles. When you shoot a spyder/clone, the bolt slams foreward, the hammer lurches, air explodes out the back of the valve hard enough to send these parts back to where they came from for the next shot. That causes a lot of kick for a paint marker. When you watch them shoot, you'll notice that because of this kick, the barrel bounces up and down with each shot. This completely erradicates the usefullness of any aftermarket barrel as the paint is sent in random directions with reckless abandon regardless of how good the paint-to-barrel match is.

Your mag, however, has only 1 moving part (besides the trigger/sear mechanism). The bolt. This ways in the area of 1 oz. Absolutely no kick, allowing for a more consistantly stable shooting platform. You'll hit what you're shooting at easier and more often than with those yuppy blowbacks.

Also, you can keep the same gun and upgrade it to compete with the best tournament level markers out there. You can make it lighter, faster, and even more consistant than it is now.

...And, yes, they come with magic elves.

[Gadget]

For me the reason why mags > all other markers are:

Build Quality
Build Quality
Build Quality

oh and aftersales support. :)

[CastorTroy]

What I've got so far:

- Built Like a Tank
- Quality Engineering
- Feels like sold piece of equipment in your hand (not like plastic toy)
- Well know and respected Manufacture. AGD stands behind product.
- Upgradable


But, I want performance facts. Clearly these low end E guns have a better rate of fire, so how is my Mini out performing these guns?

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

If anyone is looking for a nice starter gun, look around for an oldschool Mag, they'll be going dirt cheap with all the new bodies, grips, etc. coming out. Good call going for a stock Minimag, cause you can always upgrade later. It's not flashy, I admit Minimags are kind of ugly which is what my Mag started as (the rail is the last original part) but I'd rather have an ugly, effective, and easily maintained marker than a POS like a Spyder which anyone who has played more than 3 times knows is a glitzy piece of garbage. The teams playing with them in tourneys do so because they're PAID to. Mags are easy to troubleshoot, almost anything can be handled in a couple minutes, and with a properly tuned Level 10 you'll break paint in the breach less than most high end electronics do. So stick with the Mag, and if a kid with a Spyder disses it (which has happened to me) ignore it, they probably don't know a single thing about the Mag and are just talking out of the wrong end of their body.

[Ryknow]

your minimag is faster.. especially if it has a x-valve or RT valve in it. Also, mags have a lighter pull than spyders. It will be even lighter when the ULE trigger comes out.

[Cryer]

Originally posted by CastorTroy
But, I want performance facts. Clearly these low end E guns have a better rate of fire, so how is my Mini out performing these guns?

Consistancy, Accuracy (so you don't necissarily need to shoot 30x sec.), I might also add that mags are capable of shooting as fast, if not faster than those blowbacks. You need an intelliframe. These are probably one of the best upgrades for your minimag. Same short trigger pull as the stock frame, but much lighter and easier to pull. I out-shot my revvie with it (and I have my revvie Intellifed so it spins everytime I pull the trigger:eek: ).

[FalconGuy016]

Originally posted by Ryknow
your minimag is faster.. especially if it has a x-valve or RT valve in it. Also, mags have a lighter pull than spyders. It will be even lighter when the ULE trigger comes out.

I believe he is talking about electronic spyders and such. They are definiatly lighter than a mechanical mag pull. If you dont believe me you should go shoot a piranha e-force at your pro shop, I surely was amazed :) I thought it'd be total crap

[CastorTroy]

TY for feed back especially Cryer...most helpful!

[NIghtStalker001]

Mags are the Bomb.I played my first tourny this weekend and everyone we were up against had high end electros.Angels timmys etc... they coulndnt hang with the mag.And i dont mean ball per second.you can actually hold a guy into a bunker shooting 2 balls a second.The strength of the mag is awsome.I can slide in the dirt head first barrel in the dirt(not recomended)get up and just start blasting.we ended up taking 2 place and everyone was tripping out cause i was the only guy with a mag.

[deathstalker]

Here's an opinion from someone who owns a number of the markers mentioned above.

My Hyperframe'd Xtra continues to be THE most reliable marker in my collection. It has never once caused me to sit out a game. It has never once caused me to strip it down and say, "What the heck is wrong with this thing?" It has never developed mysterious leaks. The only time I've chopped is when the batteries in my Revy started to go. If I returned my Xtra to primary status, I would never play with anything else. It's my backup, only because I know it won't let me down when my other markers do.

My 'cocker has been nothing but problems since the first day I played with it. Most of these problems have been relatively minor, but if there's something that can back out on my 'cocker, it's going to back out in the middle of a game. It also loves to get out of time just a little bit and again, it always happens in the middle of a game.

My MiniMag is also not the reliable maker I thought it would be. Just like the 'cocker, the problems are minor and easily fixed, but they always seem to crop up in the middle of a game. First shot hot, leaking down the barrel, leaking out the back, are all just a few of the things that have taken me out of a game. I developed a tendency to shortstroke when trying to shoot fast, but LX solved the chopping problem I created.

The "kick" in most blowbacks is a myth. If you just hold on to the marker, there won't be any kick. The only time my shots go off target is when I'm trying to really lay down the paint and that's because I don't do that very well (fanning or walking).

I have found consistency in all my markers to be about the same and I expect +/-5 on any given day. I'm perfectly satisfied with that. My Xtra uses a Palmer's, the 'cocker has a Black Ice, and the 'Mag has the A.I.R. I use nothing but LAPCO barrels on all my markes, so I blame any inconsistency on paint. I've switched regs around on the different markers and have noticed no differences.

It gets tiresome seeing the elitist attitudes in the paintball world and 'ballers are our own worst enemy. The "my gun is better than yours" is no different from the second-grade "My Dad is better than yours" arguments we had in grade school. I guess people need others' opinions to justify their decisions and make themselves feel good.

[GatoLoco]

However, the kick does have effect at longer range, where the slightest movement of the angle of a barrel can throw off your shot a good few feet. This is where what I call "the long range accuracy of a cocker and shocker" myth comes from. Mags too have little to no noticeable kick, yet their are too many people in paintball who are unable to pull a mag's trigger without jerking it, do to their weakness. :p What I am posting is not to spit in the face of those who do not agree with me, meerly suggesting an explanation for why people think that blowbacks are inherantly less accurate than mags and cockers, (besides paint to barrel and consistancy, if you don't have those, thats bad:eek: ) at longer ranges.

[rhcp377]

this is not all remotely true.




Can someone help me reason on why the mag is better then some of the lower end electric guns.(like the Icon or Spyder Xtra)? These guns have a high rate of fire and seem to be fairly accurate and are much cheaper?

If by lower do you mean cheaper as in price? Cause I own a minimag and they are not better then some "lower end guns" stock, but if you upgrade the (mini)mag, then they will become better. For example i would rather take a Stock AMG LCD then a minimag.

[wobbles82]

In the end that Minimag will run circles around the spyder, even if it is an E. With an X-Valve you'll have no chops, and incredible speed, especially noted with an Intelliframe. But stock I kinda agree, stock minimags dont have increidle speed, and surely not as much as an electronic trigger frame, but just a bit under. As for the minimag not being reliable for stalker...that's odd, and I believe him on what he says but those problems have always been easily fixable, and I have never personally had them at that. The minimag once again also had like no kick, and the best part is to me....no crazy leakage out of the cup seal, mags just keep on chuggin. :p

[Cryer]

Originally posted by wobbles82
In the end that Minimag will run circles around the spyder, even if it is an E...But stock I kinda agree, stock minimags dont have increidle speed, and surely not as much as an electronic trigger frame, but just a bit under...

So get a stock RTPro...They will run circles around ANY Mechanical gun out there and many E-markers, out there, too. Stock.
Spyders/Clones cant touch'em, even if you put every upgrade on them you can find. (soon, RTPros are going to come with ULE triggers, too...stock.;))