AGD status on flatline reg seats?????

[fire1811]

just wondering what the status is on the 4500psi reg seats for flatlines.
thanks
curt

[cphilip]

They got some and built 68ci tanks with em last week. But I think they exhuasted the supply they had when doing that. So waiting on more. Thats what I know of it. They did not fill all thier backorders with what they had.

[fire1811]

k thanks
i would like to have a spare
but they havent had any for a while

[Dayspring]

I want my 88/4500. :p

[Blazingace]

Ditto.......Dayspring.

[adam shannon]

yesterday when i called to pay for my x-mag...ohyeahbaby! i asked marcia, she said they were testing the ones they got in before ordering a huge lot of the new ones...at least thats the last she heard.

[cphilip]

Well not to contradict Marcia but they BUILT 50 68/4500 tanks with them. So they must be past the testing of them to do that. Unfortunately they ran out (I guess) without building any of the 88's. This was last week when all these were built so I have no idea when you talked to her. Or its possible she was just unaware it had progressed past that point when you talked to her.

[VIKING]

I have been talking to Jon over the past week and according to him they do not know when any new reg seats will be in. He could not even estimate when, or even if at all.

[cphilip]

That is the case from what I understand. What they had from the first batch of testing ones were all used up building those 68/4500's last week.

[Dayspring]

:mad:

[JEDI]

What is wrong with a company that can't square away the production of a tiny peice of rubber that they've made hundreds of in the past? Tons of people own these tanks, and need them.

Production complications with a huge product like the X-mag, OK, but all this drama about a reg seat... Come on!

I'm really starting to doubt all the production excuses with EVERY product AGD puts out, when other companies have no problems with producing products of equal quality.

I feel like I have to be part of some Secret Dealer Club, just to get a reg seat. "Well so-and-so has em, but I dont know...."

[Dayspring]

from what Tom said at the Megameet, the company that was making them has since stopped making them and AGD was looking for a new source. But you're right, this is getting ridiculous.

$400+ tank held up by a $2 part.

[cphilip]

Oh I hear ya brothers...

Heck I had three in my tool box of the old ones I sent in to get some of you guys some tanks done and low and behold THOSE were declared bad. Brand new ones!

I would assume this first lot of test ones did pass inspection because they were eventualy used to fill some of these back ordered tanks. And so one must then continue to assume they put in a larger order for more that is in process. I would have to guess that for lack of any other info at this point.

[adam shannon]

as a high priest of the cult of Kaye, newly ordained at the megameet, i have to wade in. we all grilled tom about the production delays. he told us the reason for some delays is that they only use american shops (when possible) that they have dealt with in the past, and who can keep the strictest tolerences and QC. if you want cheap stuff turned out in bangladesh for $.01 cents an hour then buy a mass produced piece *cough* *spyder* *cough*. but tom takes his rep seriously and told us he would rather be slow and sell superb worksmanship than take a hit for crappy work sold quickly.

as for the reg seats. they were a specialty piece made to agd's specs, its not like an o-ring thats made by thousands of companies. there was one company on the planet that made them for agd. well, they for some reason went under or just stopped making them leaving agd to scramble for a new source. tom said they found a company in europe (uk maybe) that accepted the job for more. first they produced samples that arrived a month or so ago. once the samples were tested a small order was placed. if those all work out then they will be mass produced and we will all be happy. it takes time to bid out, design, plan, produce, test new parts. especially a part that needs to be made of special matterial (not just bar stock aluminum).

[JEDI]

Maybe Tom needs to compromise between quality, and availability. WGP makes awesome products, and I've never experienced a problem with their stuff taking so long. A lot of other companies make great products without the rediculous wait. You make it sound as if AGD is the only company putting out quality stuff, and 4 months wait for everything is normal.

The design, research, test, plan, produce excuse is getting old. You shouldn't have to redesign and research a product you've already made, just because someone else is making it.

Say what you will, but the reality is I've had a leaky reg seat for months now. I play paintball, lots of paintball... and that's not acceptable.

[Jonesie]

IIRC, the reg seat is what held up the initial release of the 4500... I think there was a warping problem with them?

In fact, here is the thread: http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13717&highlight=4500+Flatline+seat

It would seem as though the reg seat has been the achilles heel of the 4500...

And to throw in my $.02 on the rumor mill, I had the guy at my local shop call AGD on Tuesday. According to Jon, they are testing prototypes, once the results are in, they should be available. That's what I was told this past Tuesday, June 17, 2003. :)

Jonesie

[SlartyBartFast]

It's VERY poor business practice to have only one company making a difficult to get part. You should never have less than two suppliers for a critical part EVEN if that means paying more due to lower production. It's like paying an insurance policy. Granted something like the reg seat may be made in tiny quantities, but still.

The arguments about cheap parts from overseas is also bogus and tiring. Production of mature products could be outsourced to a reputable shop (US or elsewhere) and still maintain high quality standards.

Tom seems to enjoy the tinkering/development side of the business. Perhaps it would be to everyone's benefit if someone was put in charge of ongoing production and growing business for the current product line. That way critical suppliers might be replaced BEFORE there's a crisis and increased attention to production may lower costs and increase availability and sales.

[Animal Mother]

Take your time with Y grips.. warp ULE's.. all NEW stuff.. but damn, fix your current product line.

[DocRocker]

I agree... you should never rely on one company for a part.
It does seem that every other company seems to be able to get products out at a reasonable amount of time. Being known for reliabilty is one thing but to explain all these delays by that is another thing. Give me a break this isnt a ferrari.

I guess if the plans were to sell only like 20 of these a year than this much attention needs to be spent.
But if youre really looking to sell a good number of these than I think the designs need to be more simplistic and use parts that are already available. Otherwise as every day goes by, thats just another sales opportunity being missed.

I remember when the sp shocker and impulse came out and they had all those problems... but look at them there's many more of those guns out there than mags. Dont get me wrong cause I own an emag (have always owned a mag since the original came out) and I love it and wouldnt ever trade it for anything else (well except an x-mag of course)
However, I think at some point this whole "quality takes time" deal is just going to wear people's interest and patience out.

I rarely here people out there say how they have to wait 6 mo for an angel, some supped up cocker or impulse. The more guns ou get out there the more people will talk about them.

I guess since I really dont know how well AGD is doing financially its hard to say if they are truly happy with how things are going. If they are doing well than I guess you stick with the proverb of "dont fix what aint broke." but if they think the longevity of the company is at stake then different tatics will be needed.

Thats just my 2 cents thats all. Nothing more and nothing less than just a simple opinion

[rdb123]

Grrrr, I was just told by Extreme Rage that the reason my Flatline leaked out the front where you adjust the input to marker pressure was due to a bad reg seat...Oh well, isn't too bad since I don't have my SFL to play with anyway. However, I do agree that it is somewhat weird that the $300+ tank needs a $2 part to hold it up which is NOT being mass-produced. As it stands now, my tank is just good for wasting air until those new seats are available. ;)

Extra note: I had a deal with a buyer going regarding the sale of my 68/4500 flatline, but I had to cut off the deal due to the bad reg seat. So now I can't even get cash out of my tank; it is just a $300 hole placed in my wallet. :D

EDIT: Now that I think about it, my Flatline has been dead for about 2+ months now--I'm just happy that that wasn't my ONLY tank. :rolleyes:

[LongDuckDong]

My Flatline is my only tank..... I am screwed when my 50 cent o-ring breaks.

[rdb123]

Errr, actually, you're screwed when the red colored reg seat breaks. ;)

[John Sosta, AGD Europe]

I thought I may answer this one for Tom, as Tom may have told you the flatline 4500 reg seat is made over here in the UK.
When the flatline was first developed we sent Tom a seal that was machined from a bar on a cnc, These seals worked very well after testing Tom gave the go ahead to get more made and incorporated it into the flatline 4500 design, when I went back to the machine shop they could not make the seals in the quantities that AGD needed so we decided to have them molded but they did not turn out right so a new development cycle started again and couple this with other companies being involved puts certain timeframes out of our control, but I wont bore you anymore with that story its just an outline of what happened.
We are pleased to say that the new seal is in production as we speak and as soon as we get them we will dispatch them to Tom we are sorry that its took a while but we wanted to get it right as to develop something like this takes a lot of time and money as each time you have to change the mould the molders charge you and each time you try a new material they charge you, we have tried over 30 different materials so you can imagine the costs involved, when we get samples they have to be tested by us here and AGD over there so shipping time gets involved and the timeframe gets bigger.
After all this we do not want to release them prematurely and get them wrong.
As it stands at the moment we have a new seal that is of different material and shape and should flow and seal much better than current seals and I should have them in my hands any day now and Tom will have them maybe a day later or as fast as it takes to ship from the UK to the USA
I hope this clears up some of your questions
Thanks
JOHN

[Dayspring]

Now, these seats aren't the ones that AGDJon has been using right? Cuz he said that after about 1000 shots, he has to let it sit and rest b/c the seat deforms too much to be usable.

Just curious.

[John Sosta, AGD Europe]

Nope the new seats are white and do not deform its part of the reason why they took so long to develope.

[Miscue]

Yay! ETA?

[LongDuckDong]

Thank you very much John, that is very good word. :D

[Muzikman]

Miscue, Learn to read...

"We are pleased to say that the new seal is in production as we speak and as soon as we get them we will dispatch them to Tom we are sorry that its took a while but we wanted to get it right as to develop something like this takes a lot of time and money as each time you have to change the mould the molders charge you and each time you try a new material they charge you, we have tried over 30 different materials so you can imagine the costs involved, when we get samples they have to be tested by us here and AGD over there so shipping time gets involved and the timeframe gets bigger."

:D

[fire1811]

John Sosta, AGD Europe
THANK YOU
finally an explination/answer
that is all i wanted

thanks

[Miscue]

Hey, an AGD 'soon' could be next week or next year! :p

[Kevmaster]

heh....Muz...Q is right

[Muzikman]

Ok...so the ETA is next week to next year:)

[Dayspring]

Well, that's better than the "don't expect it any time soon" and the "postponed indefinitely" that I got from Jon.