Bps: Stop The Madness!!

[Konigballer]

This is going to sound real dumb, but I'm not really going to know about the higher end of the "bps" world until I get my ULEmag together. The only other guns I've actually shot is my old tips and spyders. When u guys say your gun can rip 16bps, or 20bps, are you saying you can physically shoot that many paintballs in a second or that your GUN has the capability to do so if you could theoretically pull the trigger that fast. I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding, I've got a string of 12 in the back once but I'm sure it took longer than a second for the guy to shoot 'em, he was just an a..hole. I'm just trying to imagine some newbe poking his trembling head around a bunker and getting ripped across the face with 16-17 rounds in the time it takes to blink! Is that what u guys actually do nowadays!? Tell me if I misunderstood the whole bps debate. Regardeless, the modern speedball "battlefield" seems to have become a much less forgiving place!

[yeahthatsme]

well, i can(I ME) shoot 12bps in a long string or like 14bps in a burst.

[Cha0tic]

its all marketing, and money. customers always want the fastest, lightest, best looking, ect...

if your marker can shoot faster than the competition, the customers will buy it...

[puckmaster]

On my e-mag, i got like 13 BPS, and on my Dark IR3, I got 15 CPS.

[GT]

Konig you will find that most of the bragging rights people have are from shooting the gun at a chrono, w/ just air, or gun only.

The fastest I can shoot is maybe 15bps. Honestly I think most folks are just full of BS to sound cool on the net. I would be very very suprised if most of your emag/x/angel/timmy owners get anywhere near 17bps. more than likley if you took an average at a tourny you would see people shoot 8-9bps and maybe strings from the back players at around 12-15.

jb

[Teen]

i outshot my ricochet 2 times this week, while shooting long strings of paint. i dunno how fast i was shooting though.

[FalconGuy016]

Yes, people actually move the trigger that fast (12-16 usually I read) and you can see it in videos and such

but think how long a second actually is, it really isnt as short as you think when it comes to reflexes. Its very unlikely you will be hit in the face with a full 16 paintballs

[FeelTheRT]

Originally posted by gtrsi
Konig you will find that most of the bragging rights people have are from shooting the gun at a chrono, w/ just air, or gun only.

The fastest I can shoot is maybe 15bps. Honestly I think most folks are just full of BS to sound cool on the net. I would be very very suprised if most of your emag/x/angel/timmy owners get anywhere near 17bps.

actually its harder to shoot fast without air, beucase with air, your hammer and bolt are moving back and forth and you bounce the trigger slightly.

go out to a tournament and ask to shoot a Timmy with a WAS board and i guess you WILL be suprised. Ask someone to donate you their Timmy for a game then read your max BPS at the end of the game.

[FeelTheRT]

my friend's Ironmen Intimidator... well it used to be his, he sold it to BluStreak81

if you can't read that it says 25bps

[FeelTheRT]

that says 23bps

[GT]

Im sorry but I just cant believe what a gun says. I would love to see actual data from guys playing "in the field" Not wasting paint at the chrono. I want to know the pratical application not "I fired 3 shots in .xx seconds therefore I shot 30bps"

jb

[FeelTheRT]

well if u put it that way, no can can sustain a consistant stream of say around 15bps. I'd say the average on any electro would be 6-10bps but it was due to a few shots that were at a rate of 17 or even 25 persay that makes the LCD display that information because a gun can not display your average BPS accurately due to the amount of time on the field that your not shooting.

[Konigballer]

If the high end guns can and are used to shoot 12bps+, why not just make more guns straight automatic with adjustable bps rates? If the tournament level markers are firing as fast as many real life automatic weapons in "semi" mode, why even bother with a semi mode with that level of performance. Why dont they make full auto markers tourney legal as long as theirs a bps cap, say at 20 or something. Their matching the fire rates of real automatic weapons anyways. I know theirs intense pride currently on what everyones bps rate is, but whats the point, why not save the finger some strain? What do you guys think?

[FeelTheRT]

because its not the same. Full auto, you have no control over how many balls your putting out. People will just end up holding the trigger and putting 6+ shots on a person. On semi mode, even though it can be as fast as a marker on full auto, the user has more control over the amount of paint comming out. It's really an issue of safety. Personally, i think there are bigger issues to be resolved, such as cheating.

[Lopy-slopy]

FYI, when people say they can shoot their emag 16 or 19 bps it's always refering to how fast THEY can pull the trigger(or they have FA on). An emag valve, or RT or X-valve(all the same function) have been tested up to 25 BPS.
I wouldn't put too much bank into the whole ROF competition because most players don't shoot over 14 normaly and any descent gun can reach that speed. You realy don't need insane ROF. Focus more on actualy hiting the person.

[Konigballer]

You say its actually "not the same" because of a control issue when you fire full auto, actually I have a KSC Mac-11 airsoft gun that shoots over 1200 rpm, so thats like 20bbs a second, and I can squeeze of 3 round burst on "full auto" just by blipping the trigger. I believe their can be some control but it would only go so far. Many people would probably just lay on the trigger. I think your right about it being a safety issue, but does anyone think paintball will evolve a full auto only tournement class one day? To have it there would definetley have to be an evolution of paintbsll headgear so safety would be assured. Probably a complete head coverage model like bikers have but much closer fitting and lighter with a spectra type lense. It would be cool if they came ready with mounting points for in game comunication systems too. With added safety additions, and bps caps on markers, I think it could be the most intense,fastest moving class of play in paintball if it ever happened. Oh well, maybe its just a dream.

[Quackman71]

The point is, one hit makes you out.

[Lopy-slopy]

with the speed pro's are fireing at in tournie's today I dont think it would make much differnce going full auto, as long as it was reasonable, like 20bps max. The only part I can see getting dangerous is bunkering, 20balls in the back of the head from 5 feet away is going to do some damage.

[Dayspring]

FYI- Emags do not and will never have Full Auto.


Originally posted by Lopy-slopy
FYI, when people say they can shoot their emag 16 or 19 bps it's always refering to how fast THEY can pull the trigger(or they have FA on). An emag valve, or RT or X-valve(all the same function) have been tested up to 25 BPS.
I wouldn't put too much bank into the whole ROF competition because most players don't shoot over 14 normaly and any descent gun can reach that speed. You realy don't need insane ROF. Focus more on actualy hiting the person.

[Skoad]

Originally posted by Quackman71
The point is, one hit makes you out.


i'm tired of hearing this....yea duhh we know the rules of paintball one hit and your out. That has nothing to do with shooting fast. The faster you shoot the better the chance one of your balls will hit your opponent.

If your so obsessed with one hit, go play with only one paintball.

[BradPalooza]

I also think it would be safer to have full auto with a minimum trigger pull weight than having people tuning their trigger so the gun fires fire when you blow on it.

While playing last weekend the ref grabbed some kids gun held it up in the air by the back of the gun and it kept firing for about 5 seconds.

I'm sure most of the tournament ballers have seen someone set their gun down and it fires. You can't tell me that is safe.

The gun should ONLY fire when it's intended to and stop when you take you're finger off the trigger, no matter what. Hence the old gun rule, don't put your finger on the trigger unless you intend to shoot. Until you take the gun out of the equation, you're always going to have people pushing the limit but, they can't make a cheater finger.
-Brad

[Bolter]

E/X-mags can go full auto, I have seen this on video downloads and from members of my team for "demonstration" purposes. We would never, I would like to point out, ever use this on someone in a game or not. Ever. This is seen as very dangerous. You don't need full auto n e way.

My Storm edition X-mag is set on 24bps. Of course I can't shoot 24 bps, but with the warp feed in tow i think I can get around 14-16 tops (and thats pushing it). If I cheat (using the double finger thing) I think that 16 is achievable, but certainly not neccessary. Accuracy is a much better weapon.

There is a time and a place for firing at insane speeds. Off the break is one of them. Apart from that you need a reliable gun that will do what you want it to do. There is no point buying a 20bps timmy if its gonna chop balls every 5 seconds (not saying the timmy does!!), you may as well get something that shoots less fast but is reliable, or set your insane gun lower, or buy an X-mag on warp, with level 10 and anti-chop-eye. Not that I'm biased.

:D

[TheJester]

on average i only shoot about 5-8. i can shoot faster, for i have outshot my rico on many occasions on longer strings (part of why i just got a halo). i think the fastest i can shoot in longer strings is about 10-12, in a short burst i can prolly get up to about 14

[BobTheCow]

Originally posted by Bolter
If I cheat (using the double finger thing) I think that 16 is achievable, but certainly not neccessary. Accuracy is a much better weapon.err... are you talking about "walking" the trigger? :confused: Cuz that most certainly isn't illegal... pretty widely used, in fact (from what I hear :rolleyes: ).

[dre1919]

I've often thought this was a goofy debate. Some players spend their offtime from playing sitting around debating whose faster on the trigger when in reality it doesn't matter. What matters is how well you play the game...if you have accuracy, speed and good decision making you'll be a much better player than your friend the machinegunner who's trying to reach his BPS limit on his new electro. If you want to race people on the trigger, go over to the chrono or the firing range and do so, but those type of stats really have little bearing in game situations. This is why you don't see the Police incorporate the sport of competitive speed shooting (real guns) into their training program.

I say this because for somebody to get these insane rates of fire like 20bps or whatever, you have to be focusing on doing nothing but fanning the trigger, holding the gun the right way, and laying down the paint. I've been playing for ten years, most of it in tourneys, and I've yet to see some guy lean out from an inflatable and cap off 23 balls in a second at someone. It just doesn't happen. Their backline guys may throw out strings of 12-14 balls a second if they're really hammering the trigger, but these guys are supposed to spend the majority of the game firing anyway. Most players who aren't playing a cover position usually shoot in the range of 6-9 balls a second or so because they have more to worry about than just leaning out and letting it rip.

That's the thing that makes me laugh a little at the Angel Speed. Great marker, don't get me wrong here, but it's got this advertised 30bps delivery...and while that sells markers, the reality is that 98% of their customers will never see that amount of firepower come out of that thing. Even if they do manage to somehow get 30bps out in a freaking second it's going to be at the firing range or sitting at a table fanning a trigger. You show me a kid lean out and try planting 30 balls on someone or something in a second, in a game, and I'll show you a kid walking to the deadbox with a goggle shot.

This is just my humble opinion, but I think 10-12 balls a second is more than enough for anybody to play with, and 15 should be an intelligent cap for the sport. Anything over this is simply extraneous, and promoted by the paint manufacturers to sell more paint.

[Jack & Coke]

Rate_____DISTANCE________TIME
of_______between_________between
Fire_____BALLS___________SHOTS
(bps)____at 300 fps______

8________38 ft___________0.125 sec
10_______30 ft___________0.100 sec
12_______25 ft___________0.083 sec
14_______21 ft___________0.071 sec
16_______19 ft___________0.063 sec
18_______17 ft___________0.056 sec
20_______15 ft___________0.050 sec
22_______14 ft___________0.045 sec

[JT2002]

Originally posted by Bolter
My Storm edition X-mag is set on 24bps. Of course I can't shoot 24 bps, but with the warp feed in tow i think I can get around 14-16 tops (and thats pushing it). If I cheat (using the double finger thing) I think that 16 is achievable, but certainly not neccessary. Accuracy is a much better weapon.


:D

Storm edition X? bro, now youre obligated to post a pic. SHOW IT!!!:D oh btw, TIMMYS DONT CHOP!!!!!:rolleyes: ;) :D :D

[Bolter]

hehehe!! I will try to obtain a piccy for you. I am a techno gimp and only have a computer at work. But I am sure I can find a piccy of one of our guns and put it on here!!

Its basically an X-mag but with Storm only software. We have all the upgrades including the silly 24bps setting. It has a very, very, very soft trigger so as to aid the increased rate of fire, which is different to all your guns. They all still rip though!! And it still doesn't bounce. It has things like it says Storm and then Bolter (my name) when I turn it on. It also has a mod which runs the warp and the hopper off of my Mag battery. These are to be produced soon for sale, but I have no other details on this. I have a all aluminium J & J two piece barrel made for Storm, which apparently the backs are only normally made from Steel. But I can't prove this.

I will see if a friend has a digi camera and I will take a piccy and try to post it here!!

Go to www.walkonzone.com register (sorry) and go to the video arcade gallery. Download M25 clip 2. Thats us beating a very good team called Mayhem Tigers Pro a couple of months ago. In the clip I am the one breaking out to the black t-bag (or dorito as the US call em). We all use warps also.

It is a big file to download (sorry not me who did it) so be patient. There are also no other clips of us on that bit of the site. Laters.

oh yeah its called walking the trigger then.

[athomas]

The ball per second debate is interesting. Many think its all about the ability to fire a continuous barrage of shots at a high rate. The opponents of it think about "getting hit with all 14 shots" in a 14bps string. The proponents say "since the guns fire at such high rates anyway, why not use full auto".

The bps is about the ability of the gun to perform on demand. If I lean out the side of a bunker and squeeze the trigger a few times in an adrenaline charged moment, I want there to be 6 or 7 balls in the air out of my fast marker in the fraction of a second that I am there, as opposed to the 3 or 4 balls in the air out of a limited marker. The faster marker increases your chances in a fast paced snap shooting contest even though only one shot is needed. I may not be able to fire a continuous string of more than 12 - 14 bps but I may be able to fire a 4, 5 or 6 shot burst in a fraction of a second each time I snap shoot. Given the inaccuracy of paintballs, that increases my chances of landing one on the target I am shooting for.

The full auto bps is an uncontrolled burst. Each time you pull the trigger, your gun fires at the maximum set rate of fire. Think about someone going around a bunker to make that 1 or 2 shots to some players unsuspecting backpack or shoulder. If you were firing an full auto gun at 20bps, you could easily plant 10 rounds on your opponent in the blink of an eye. That would be bad and dangerous.

So in conclusion, I like that guns can do the high rate of fire. That way its your abilities that dictate your rate or fire and you control each and every shot. I dislike full auto because it is uncontrolled.

[JT2002]

whats so special bout storm software

[No sKiLLz]

Don't forget, the further away you are from your target, the more uncotrollable circumstances can effect your splatter pattern. Even the most "accurate" markers need to spew paint to hit the same spot twice from over 40 feet or so. BPS is essential for back players whos job is to make people cringe, but if you play front, just get nice and close...

[Konigballer]

Jeez, I go to sleep, wake up and theirs a whole lotta debatin' goin' on in my absence. I like some of the points I've seen by you guys. I never really thought about high bps rates just being an "off the break" occurance, or just more or less relegated to back players giving cover fire throughout the game. Its interesting that a player with a very high performance, high"bps", marker can only get the most out of its performance in short bursts where his finger is pulling at its fastest. That makes me want a full auto only class of play in tournements. Now I'm just throwing out ideas but everyone keeps talking about safety and I think it would be obvious, and totally necessary for the entire paintballer's "uniform" , ie: jersey, cargo pants, less than full coverage facemask, to undergo a full transfomation in order to compete in such a high intensity, high firepower game. That body armor stuff companies make, like JT, etc.., could easily be adapted to cover other part of the human anatomy. It would be like developing a full protection suit or eguipment package for players. Think "HALO". Only then could such a class of play be even allowed. Think of what would be done to tactics or even field layouts. I dont think you could have both teams start the break in full visibility of each other, their be to many taken down in the hail of paint! They would probably have to both begin behind bunkers. Athletic prowess for proffesional teams would also have to go up to be able to make a run for a bunker and survive. Team coordnation and communication would become even more vital than it already is. In game communication between players via headsets would be a must. Something like this televised, using both helmet mounted sytems, overhead field cams, and mounted bunker cameras, could make it pretty exciting for television viewers. "Of course thats just me I could be wrong, give me a call america", not like I'd be able to compete on that level anyways but its still a cool dream.

[Army]

Originally posted by JT2002
whats so special bout storm software

Right now, it is boards and software that is exclusive to Team Storm UK, bretheren Warp fed Xmag shooters from across the pond.

[Bolter]

er....its....er ...for us only. The warp also primes itself automatically when there isn't a ball on the ACE (anti chop eye) which helps with shooting lefty (i.e rotated gun) and er....not much else.

Hey someone asked, and I replied.

Its not one ground breaking upgrade. Its lots of little bits and bobs that make an already great gun into a slightly better and unique version.

I still cannot obtain a piccy of mine, but I am attempting to have a photo mailed over from a team mate. It doesn't look any different though!!

[gaff]

here you go guys my gun as Bolter has not got a photo of his!

:D :cool: :D

[JT2002]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[gaff]

dont ya like it then?

[JT2002]

its easy to get away from the law over there right?;) :D

[Bolter]

Nope. Why? Is it criminal!!? Mines the same but done all in matte silver!! Loverlyyyyyy!!!!! :D :D

Ok so BPS.........I think it helps, but its not essential. Depends if you can use a high rof or not. Take cocker users, its not a huge rate of fire but teams sponsored purely with cockers still do well (Aftershock - World Cup). Its down to the user in my opinion.

:)