the dirt on the new Shocker 03

[nerobro]

Well. I saw the shocker last night. Saw it again today. I had a long talk with one of the smart parts brothers (I can't remember his name off the top of my head) I got to fondle a red and blue shocker.

Here's what I gathered from our discussion.

1. Better Efficancy. 1000 shots off a 68/45. Now this is NOT a great number. but it certianly blows the old shocker out of the water. to put this in perspective, my spyder gets 1500-1700 on the same size tank. (yes, it's completely stock internally)

2. Fewer parts. There are only about 6 parts inside the shocker, only two of which move. It's still a dump chamber design. it still runs in the 170psi range.

3. Easier maintanance. There's only two moving parts..... I think this is pretty self explanatory. It's not like the old shocker, it's only got one solinoid. My big guess is that the gun is going to be very matrix/mag like inside, with a ram at the back of the gun instead of around the sides of the bolt. We will find out when they deliver manuals.. or if I go back tomorow and really grill them on how they work ;-)

4. Shocker threads. I'd like cocker threads... but yaknow, SP is out to sell barrels.

5. Price. It's supposed to list at $750

6. Eye. The current guns have no eye on them. but they are milled and have pasages for an internal eye mount. it appears it will be a reflective sensor on theright side of the gun.

7. Open bolt. The gun IS open bolt. There were working on a closed bolt version... they couldn't get it much above 10 bps. As it stands now it's a bit above 18bps. That's respectable for a non mechanical gun. (mags, spyders, are both at 50 right now..)

8. No lpr. They are continuing to run the solinoids at line pressure. they have confidence in this...... I don't. We'll see how that works in the long run. :-)

This gun blows the old shocker out of the water. Heck, it even gives the impulse a run for it's money. (yes I hold the impulse as a much better gun than the shocker.... )

Oh yea, the nerve should be out in ~3 months.

[BajaBoy]

any info on demand? is there a preorder list like the xmag? whats that wait... Im serously thinking about buying one of these when i get the money

[nerobro]

I'll talk to the smart parts guys tomorow about it.

[GT]

Originally posted by nerobro


This gun blows the old shocker out of the water.

no offense nero,
I have no idea why it is THAT much better than the current shocker. Its smaller, new trigger, better eff, its open bolt (if closed really makes a deff), and is supposed to be faster(I have yet to feel the "wall" on my current shocker).

SO w/o an eye, its basically an over priced impulse. Honestly the prices on the current shockers arnt bad. Pick one up and throw and OTB frame on and your set.

jb

[damageinc54]

Originally posted by BajaBoy
any info on demand? is there a preorder list like the xmag? whats that wait... Im serously thinking about buying one of these when i get the money

No pre-order list at Samrt Parts. They told me at the Chicago Open that they are in production right now and they are filling up their warehouse before they start selling them. Apparantly Smart Parts does not like the idea of players waiting 6 months for their guns like some other company does :rolleyes:

[nerobro]

the gun is completely different from the impulse. the overpriced impulse is going to be released in 3 months. *ahem* nerve...*ahem*

It's lighter, smaller, more efficant, easier to maintain.... You tell me what ISN'T better about this gun than the last shocker? If you don't feel the wall then ROF over 11 doesn't matter to you. It DOES matter to me, and any player who can walk a trigger.

So, if you compare shocker to shocker. the new one is better in ALL respects. I think that supports my statment very well.

As for AGD not stockpileing guns.... AGD doesn't have the money to do it. (at least that's what the explanation we got from tom was) and the margin on x-mags is REALLY slim.

[GT]

Originally posted by nerobro
It's lighter, smaller, more efficant, easier to maintain.... You tell me what ISN'T better about this gun than the last shocker?

I just dont see it. Its kind like all the guys that dump thier Led angel's for LCDs. I just dont see a huge bennifit/change in performance. BTW not all shockers were limited to 11bps. My eclipse is limited to 15 bps, although eclipse calls it shots per second, sps.

Dont get me wrong it is improved but when you sit down and work the numbers.... Current shocker I think is around 350 bucks and this new one is 750. So is there really 400 bucks worth of cool stuff on this new shocker?

No trying to be a butt, however I am kind tired of the industry lacking the think tank required to produce real inovative products. I swear all of the new sp products sound like they will revolve around one common platform, the impulse, very simliar to the automotive industry.

just my opinion,
jb

[nerobro]

The old shockers are only cheap to DUMP INVENTORY. And as for $400 on new and cool stuff. Well given the gun has the same MSRP, you're definitely getting more for your money. You're getting a carved body, instead of an extruded aluminum brick. You're getting a gun that's somewhere less than half the weight. You're getting a frame that you won't need to replace imedately. You're getting a gun that runs on 9 volts instead of battery packs. I don't see the problem with pricing in comparison to the old shocker. Again, the fact that places like pbgear are trying to dump the old ones doesn't reduce the value of the new gun.

Even if you can set it to 15, the gun will only do about 12. I've never seen anyone able to reliably set shockers above 12. Even with aftermarket boards.

Anger at the industry does not change the fact that this gun is better in all respects than the last shocker. And it does not change the fact the the gun IS a new design... so it is some of that innovation you were complaining about a lack of.

Your ability to use the gun, does not change the fact it does in fact preform better. You only need a gun that's better than you.

As for not seeing the difference... would a chart help? There isn't a single thing about the new gun (it's hard to call it a shocker becuase it's utterly different from the shocker in all respects... funny how it works better too.) that's not better than the old gun. How can you not "see" the difference. Even if it is only efficancy and a better frame from theh factory.

Then again. I still wouldnt buy one. It's still not up to par with what I considder "good" guns.

If you want to turn this into a comparison thread. The gun still isn't as good a LX mag.

Your oppinoin is not based in fact. And I think you have blinders on due to owning an older shocker. Keep in mind I HATED the old shocker. This one, I can't yell and scream at people for owning. And tha'ts a drastic improvement.

[breg]

Nerobro,
Thanks man, for the info. It's what I've been waiting for for a while now. I'm looking to buy a marker here soon, after what I read, I don't think it's what I'll buy, but more info on more markers always helps. Thanks again man.

Later,

Breg

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

Originally posted by nerobro
This one, I can't yell and scream at people for owning. And tha'ts a drastic improvement.


You yell at people for owning a shocker? That's funny.

[GT]

Originally posted by nerobro
As for not seeing the difference... would a chart help? How can you not "see" the difference. Even if it is only efficancy and a better frame from theh factory.

Then again. I still wouldnt buy one. It's still not up to par with what I considder "good" guns.

If you want to turn this into a comparison thread. The gun still isn't as good a LX mag.

Your oppinoin is not based in fact. And I think you have blinders on due to owning an older shocker. Keep in mind I HATED the old shocker. This one, I can't yell and scream at people for owning. And tha'ts a drastic improvement.

Nero,
wtf crawled up your shorts? All I am saying is that I am not that impressed with the new design. My opinion is not wrong, its my opinion simple enough. Hell SP still beats thier chest about this closed bolt crap and I am very suprised if they release this marker in open bolt form. Yes I belive that a mag is better than my shocker or anything that SP puts togther, infact that is why my shocker is the "backup."

For one I think any praise is a little premature. Sure we can say the desgin is a good one but, as proven in the past, SP excutaion is always piss poor. I know you were around when the first shocker came out and the impulse. I can remember the countless threads of pissing and moaning about QC issues and "beta test" guns that seemed to be sold to the public.


Your ability to use the gun, does not change the fact it does in fact preform better. You only need a gun that's better than you.

Bro this is a pretty lame statment. If you can't play your game with a spyder/tippmann I would suggest another sport. In all honesty I wont be able to play my "A" game with a gun I am unfamiliar with but I can still play fairly well with what ever you hand me.


Anger at the industry does not change the fact that this gun is better in all respects than the last shocker. And it does not change the fact the the gun IS a new design... so it is some of that innovation you were complaining about a lack of.

I am not angry just tired of the industry taking advantage of stupid people. Look how many folks honeslty think that LCDs and IR3's are giant leeps for angel owners. Cops is cool but give me a break. Take timmy's for example, I think bob long has done a dam good job of packging the same crap with a different mill and pretty colors and all these kids eat it up. Good buisness sence.


As for not seeing the difference... would a chart help? There isn't a single thing about the new gun (it's hard to call it a shocker becuase it's utterly different from the shocker in all respects... funny how it works better too.) that's not better than the old gun

we will see if this holds true, however in the meantime no need to be a smartass. It just doesnt come off very well on AO..

jb

[DjGruv]

This gun ROCKS! If you think 750 is alot then maybe you look at the price of most tourny guns. How can anyone say the gun isn't worth it when NO ONE has one. Unless your on the All Americans.:rolleyes: So how is the LX mag better? You can't yell at someone for owning a older shocker?? Don't you own a spyder?

Anyway you CAN preorder a shocker from hypersportworks.com

[FreshmanBob]

Originally posted by nerobro
(mags, spyders, are both at 50 right now..)



Wait, when did this happen? I thought the most a mag could go was around 38 or 40

Are there videos or sound wave thingys to prove that?

[nerobro]

GTRsi.

The praise is for a gun that's signifigantly better than the last gun of that name. (fact) I was convinced it wasn't going to be an improvement on any front. This gun actually has numbers good enough to justify the guns existance. (opionion that can't be backed up by anything but personal prefrence) We haven't seen this kind of all around improvement on any gun.... ever. The mag has only lost efficancy. The cocker took the last 5 years to become something decent.

I dunno, what would you considder worthy of praise?

DjGruv

The LX mag is better with efficancy, and rate of fire.

Yes I own a spyder, Yes that's what I use at tournys. It also gets 1500-1700 shots off a 68/45 and cycles in 20ms. Other than being noisy what more could I ask for?

More importanly, what does that have to do with the shocker?

[nerobro]

Originally posted by FreshmanBob


Wait, when did this happen? I thought the most a mag could go was around 38 or 40

Are there videos or sound wave thingys to prove that?

Fatty striker spyders cycle in 20ms. documentation on that is in deep blue. the mag bolt finishes it's cycle in 20ms. The mag needs some time to recharge, the spyder doesn't.

[Kevmaster]

so....

i guess the only thing similar between this gun and the old shocker is the name?

oh well...i guess this just proves that closed bolt ISNT more accurate and DOESNT give more range....

hehe...

[nerobro]

and now we place bets on the nerve being open or closed bolt.

and I was wondering who else had/would notice that this is SP basicly saying closed bolt isn't benificial.

[magking1971]

All I know is that I have the money sitting here waiting for them to come out:D :D

[nerobro]

already got a mag in the stable? (if the answers no.... it may be time for an e-mag, they can be had for $850 and are a higher preformance gun....)

[DYE-BaLLeR]

Originally posted by nerobro
As it stands now it's a bit above 18bps. That's respectable for a non mechanical gun. (mags, spyders, are both at 50 right now..)



spyders suck im not even talk about mags

[tranman]

Originally posted by DYE-BaLLeR


spyders suck im not even talk about mags

Ouch, those are harsh words. But where's your proof to back that up?

[nerobro]

I love replys like that. There's not even an english sentance in there.

[GhillieGuy]

Originally posted by DYE-BaLLeR


spyders suck im not even talk about mags
I'm tired of hearing these words, Do you know what the top selling marker is? SPYDER I'm not saying they are good guns, but they are pretty reliable if you take care of it, and for the average(not hard core) p-baller it's a good gun to have. Without spyders there will be alot less people in the sport i think..

[Kevmaster]

wow...smart parts is cool...design a new gun thats hardly like their old one and keep the name and then come up with the slogan of something like "the only thing we kept was the range and accuracy"" lol!

[DYE-BaLLeR]

Originally posted by GhillieGuy

Without spyders there will be alot less people in the sport i think..

that would be pretty tite right there no little rookies with spyders

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

Originally posted by DYE-BaLLeR


that would be pretty tite right there no little rookies with spyders

Wow. All i can say aboot that is............wow.

[MaChu]

No offense DYE-Balla but shut your mouth your were a rookie once...and with an attitude like that, maybe still a newb:rolleyes:

I know alot of people who use AMG's in tournaments and they can be just as consistent wavering only about 2+/- fps with nitrogen and can keep up with a revolution or egg. Just a little too much kick for my tastes.

They arent bad guns, but I do like your non English sentence replys they show how intelligent you really are.:D

[magking1971]

Nerobro, I have an RT-classic,X-mag paid and waiting:rolleyes: for, and I just want the new shocker because It will be something good to add to the 'ol collection:D :D

[GhillieGuy]

Originally posted by MaChu
No offense DYE-Balla but shut your mouth your were a rookie once...and with an attitude like that, maybe still a newb:rolleyes:

I know alot of people who use AMG's in tournaments and they can be just as consistent wavering only about 2+/- fps with nitrogen and can keep up with a revolution or egg. Just a little too much kick for my tastes.

They arent bad guns, but I do like your non English sentence replys they show how intelligent you really are.:D
He said it all!... Now end of descution with the spyders.

[nerobro]

Who can argue with that logic ;-) same reason I own a vm-68, and why i want a PVI shocker...

[magking1971]

I miss my old VM-68:(
They were darn cool guns back in the day, They sure could take a beating(mine did)
That is one marker I wish I kept.

[DjGruv]

Saw the AM's shooting the new shocker today. The thing ROCKS! Didn't skip a beat.

[Kevmaster]

Originally posted by MaChu
No offense DYE-Balla but shut your mouth your were a rookie once...and with an attitude like that, maybe still a newb:rolleyes:

I know alot of people who use AMG's in tournaments and they can be just as consistent wavering only about 2+/- fps with nitrogen and can keep up with a revolution or egg. Just a little too much kick for my tastes.

They arent bad guns, but I do like your non English sentence replys they show how intelligent you really are.:D

Dude...he obviously wears Dye gear...he MUST be a pro player....Dye makes you 10x better :rolleyes:

[davidb]

Well, that depends on how fully outfitted with Dye gear he is... If he's sportin' the pack and nothing else, then he's probably only 2.5-3X better. If he's got the jersey, pants, shoes, barrels, gun with "Dye" carved onto it, barrel condom, etc. etc., he may well be up in the 15-20X better range!!

But he still doesn't speaka the English. :D

[Paintchucker]

Originally posted by damageinc54

Apparantly Smart Parts does not like the idea of players waiting 6 months for their guns like some other company does :rolleyes:


HMMMMMM, maybe so, but some people have been waiting since the initial release date which was back in March... :eek:

[DYE-BaLLeR]

i dont even wear anything dye now but good job making fun of someones user name

[damageinc54]

Originally posted by Paintchucker



HMMMMMM, maybe so, but some people have been waiting since the initial release date which was back in March... :eek:

And how long have we waited for the Xmag????? Much longer than the Shocker. At least the customers that have been wating for the 2003 Shocker dont have a charge on their credit card and no gun to show for it for 6 months like the customres wating for Xmags. No way I would wait on a backorder list like some of the guys have. What I find even funnier is every batch of Xmags that comes out has something different. Second batch has milled battery packs. I am sure guys in the first batch would have liked to have that. Oh wait.... they can get a raw one for the low price of 60.00 in addition to the 1450.00 they already spent :rolleyes:

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

The new shocker should be pretty cool, but alot is still unknown about it. We shall see.

And Dyeballer, grow up a little. You posted an insult, they made a little joke about the pic that happened to insult you. If you can't take it, don't give it.

[Meph]

Hey, it could be worse.


Looking like a complete tool, just like this guy. http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/168879/me.JPG

[DYE-BaLLeR]

??? im walking around...

[adam shannon]

Originally posted by damageinc54


No pre-order list at Samrt Parts. They told me at the Chicago Open that they are in production right now and they are filling up their warehouse before they start selling them. Apparantly Smart Parts does not like the idea of players waiting 6 months for their guns

but they do believe in releasing an unfinished and under tested product and letting the consumer do the beta testing so they can re-design it and sell more aftermarket parts to actually make it work...and thats why some guy in NY is probably cussing my old money pit impulse right now.

[Spaceman613]

most companies do that... even the beloved agd.

[adam shannon]

Originally posted by nerobro

I was wondering who else had/would notice that this is SP basicly saying closed bolt isn't benificial.

i think what sp is actually saying is that they couldnt make it work and live up to the hype at the same time.

[Spaceman613]

maybe they are sayong "accuracy by volume, not closed bolt" ;)

or maybe they see that people are buing open bolt markers, so why increase the cost by making a closed bolt gun.

[adam shannon]

what im refering to is that they hung their hat on the myth of closed bolt, that was the main selling point of all their pre-release hype.

now after all that its open bolt. their adds were all false advertising...and in the real business world...not paintball where hype and lies are acepted ways of doing business...they would be held accountable not patted on the back. they held it up and glossied every PB mag with "all we kept was the legendary closed bolt accuracy" while scrambling behind the scenes to back up the claims and couldnt even get the marker to work!

so now it has "legendary accuracy" while its only said in small print and whispers that that legendary accuracy is now from an open bolt...oh wait did they retract all those ads and actually announce that its open bolt...or are they letting the hype stand and the imprint of those ads stick and only letting word of mouth say its open bolt.

[crankydan]

Correct me if Im wrong,

I dont think that SP ever said that the "New Shocker" was going to be closed bolt.

I did get to review the video on the new shocker. I can tell you this much (in my own opion), there is no way that I would pay 750 dollars for it. I was not impressed at all with the rate of fire.

[Spaceman613]

"all we kept was the legendary closed bolt accuracy"

that didnt say it was closed bolt... just that it was accurate. And we all know (or should know) that consistancy causes the accuracy of a paintgun.

Why dont we all let the stinkin thing hit the streets in full production, let people buy them, and let THEM give opinions and reviews. Full production, odd concept.

If they arnt worth the money, then they wont sell, plain and simple. but if the $750 retail is true, its nearly half the price of an x-mag. less expensive than a speed, on par with a viking, and way cheaper than an excal or any electro cocker.

[manike]

They originally told me that it would be closed bolt. But that was in the prototype stage and I can appreciate how things change in development.

I'm looking forward to getting my hands on one... I'm hoping they will have one at Toulouse in the next few weeks...

[nerobro]

It's smart parts. It will sell weather it's worth it or not. Tha's the benifit of being smart parts and advertizing the hell out of their products ;-)

[joker4hire]

Originally posted by Spaceman613
"all we kept was the legendary closed bolt accuracy"

that didnt say it was closed bolt... just that it was accurate. And we all know (or should know) that consistancy causes the accuracy of a paintgun.



Strait from their webpage 06-25-2003

[Spaceman613]

ok, didnt see that on the website, I was just going by the quote given... the website say it, but that particular quote in this thread didnt. Of course, matrices fire from a closed bolt, and so do angels.. so maybe they are following the trend of those guys ;)

[damageinc54]

Originally posted by adam shannon


but they do believe in releasing an unfinished and under tested product and letting the consumer do the beta testing so they can re-design it and sell more aftermarket parts to actually make it work

You were not around for the original AGD superbolt fiasco were you??? AGD did exactly what you just described.

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

Originally posted by Spaceman613
ok, didnt see that on the website, I was just going by the quote given... the website say it, but that particular quote in this thread didnt. Of course, matrices fire from a closed bolt, and so do angels.. so maybe they are following the trend of those guys ;)



Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, yeah i'm pretty sure angels are open bolt. Unless you are refering to that it actually fires when the breach is closed, bla bla bla. I don't know

[DYE-BaLLeR]

ya angels definetly arent closed bolt and every gun fires when the bolt is in the closed position or there would be mad blowback

[LittlePaintballBoy]

Originally posted by DYE-BaLLeR
i dont even wear anything dye

and i suppose thatyour jersey says JT:rolleyes: ;)