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View Full Version : Do Pro Teams mean anything to you guys? AGD wants to know...



AGD
07-08-2001, 11:33 PM
All,

The subject of pro teams or pro paintball never seems to come up in this forum. We were wondering why? All comments welcome.

Thanks,

AGD

M-a-s-sDriver
07-08-2001, 11:51 PM
Not to be flippant, but what is there to talk about? It seems lately that everybody and his uncle is shooting either an Angel or Cocker on the pro circuit, and since this IS a Mag forum, it just never comes up.

Brent Jackson, PFB.

Vil3
07-08-2001, 11:54 PM
hey M-a-s- thats not all true man we got some pro paintball players out here! Just not many of them. I myself am a amatuer player, i play at tourneys, but i dont see many pros around here... Maybe they just haven't found AO yet?

AGD- didn't u give e-mags to jacksonville warriors? cuz in magazines it was saying congrats to jacksonville warriers all with e-mags.... Are they even on the Forums?

Drizit
07-09-2001, 12:02 AM
give me a few years, I will be a household name, the world will sing my praises and bow down before my greatness. And I'll tell everyone that I started here. all I need to do now is enter my first tourney. http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif

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MicroMag Phase 1
S/N GFX001489
Custom ring trigger
MaxFlow 68/3000

There must have been a time
when we could have said no.

magking1971
07-09-2001, 12:06 AM
Personaly I don't care about pro teams or pro paintball.
Pro paintball is just not for me I like the laid back local tourneys and rec ball with friends and to meet new people.

zads27
07-09-2001, 12:08 AM
well i'm still playing rookie div, but i'll be moving on up soon, til one day..

personally i'm not in a hurry to make it to the pros.. don't get me wrong, i want to play with the best out there.. but from what i've seen with some pro teams out there, that just gives the pros a negative vibe in my mind.

lonsch
07-09-2001, 12:09 AM
it might be that most people here have never seen a pro team or player in person befor hence nothing to talk about.

cphilip
07-09-2001, 12:11 AM
They don't mean anything to me. They do seem to mean a lot to the younger crowd. I know the kids think tourney is the "thing'" they all dream and should do so. And therefore it sells stuff. I seem to think there was some talk about this before but you made your intentions clear about not getting too heavly involved directly? Am I right? Maybe that has dampened the talk here about it? Anyway... I know my kid dreams about this kind of stuff. i just try to survive and like your equipment and customer service. I'm too practical I to be a good advisor on this subject I guess. I do notice that a lot of older guys like Mags. Maybe that is a good thing? Not as big a market but a steady one...

Phil

Army
07-09-2001, 12:21 AM
Well, how many AO members are actual, genuine, current rated pro-players? I guess very few to none?

Since there is no postings of tourney news, knowledge, tips & tricks, or just friendly banter from any pros here, there just isn't any reason for the rest of us to garner any interest.

That's just sad, now that I re-read it http://www.automags.org/ubb/frown.gif

hitmanng
07-09-2001, 01:08 AM
To be honest I do not follow "Pro" paintball at all. The concept of a paintball pro is alien to me.

1. It is not like pro players are recrutted and making $100,000 per year that I have seen. Maybe it is just ignorance on my part.
2. Paintball is not that hard. I think given the time to practice anyone could be almost as good as most pro players. It takes no feat of strength etc. I could never compete againt the Shaq's and Jordans of the world I don't have it in me.
3. Paintball is not televised. I really canot follow the Pro cirtuit without traveling around the country. I have never seen a pro team play in my life.

I do follow the local teams. This includes the NAAPSA locally the ICC Indiana Captains Council and the Am A and Am B teams. These are people I know play with recreationally and may play in Tourneys with.
Until paintball is televized I will not follow a "Pro" curcuit.
Hitmanng


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"I would rather hit once than miss 140 times."

SniperWolf
07-09-2001, 01:40 AM
i myself follow nppl, mayhem masters, mgo, and things like that. i keep tabs on most pro team things. i really like pro ball and aspire to some day join a pro team. just to me being a pro paintballer seems something i can actually achieve, unlike say a pro f1 racer (another dream of mine, hehe) i can go down to my home field, survival, and watch ground zero practice, on the edge ya know. the best they can be. that to me, is what paintball is about. maybe im just a glory boy like lasoya. its just alot of people dont care much about pros on this forum, considering AGDs pretty small presence, except for the jax warriors.

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Frag'd, toe tagg'd and body bag'd,
hell son, you mustve just been automag'd

Dogbone
07-09-2001, 02:08 AM
Living in Idaho the only way I ever hear anything about "Pro" players and events is usually months after the tournements are done. To trully be able to follow and be a fan of a sporting series I think you have to be able to participate vicariously in real time. You have to be able to see or hear it as it happens or at least read it in the news the next day. How else can it be discussed unless you know whats happening? Until real time broadcasting of pro paintball events is avialable there won't be much of a fan base except amongst those who are directly involved.

Besides, I'm a scenario and rec-ball player and my tournement days are behind me. I have very little in common with the pro paintball world.

Eagle
07-09-2001, 03:52 AM
the way that I look at it is that there are so many differrent circuits, NPPL, APL, ect. Where other sports have one. It gets confusing, and there is no standard for setting up fields, just certain dimensions (which could be good or bad). It makes things difficult to keep track of. Not to mention as has been discussed many times before, there is little media coverage. And most anyone can put together a team here (I know it is a little more complex than that but you get the idea) butyou can't just grab a bunch of guys and go play in the NFL. I think if these were to change it would help boost the popularity of pro teams.

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Die Screaming

Whisky
07-09-2001, 06:01 AM
I do follow what s going on, on the NPPL circuit. I like to read about it, the new up comers, the stars of the these days, and the legend of the dinosaurs day of paintball, and all the crappy things that are going on in NPPL.
And i do have my favorite team, not cause they are the best but they make this sport better, just like tha Russian Legion. I like teams like Ironmen the bob long`s and SC, Image, Dynasty the AA and else, but we all know those teams win by cheating and wipping. So there is no big pride to have here.
But why we don`t talk about it, NPPL needs big changes to be really interesting. They need change in Format. Promoters have to get there hands off it. IT has to become a "Sport" not just a business. Things will have to change so we can become fan of a certain team, just like any other sport. It would need a whole new way of thinking and doing things. But why would the promoters do so, That way pays by itself. Why change something that makes them earn money.
Till then i ll keep following what`s going on.


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"Give me an inch... I`ll give you a bruise" -Andy Kopcok, team Image
Snap Snap
Bang Bang
You`re Out

Thordic
07-09-2001, 06:42 AM
If I was at the level where I was on the verge of that level of competition, I would care.

But where I am now? Not really... Like hitmanng said, if it were on TV, I would follow it. But as it is, I don't really care too much. I watch PigTV sometimes, but more to get ideas on how to improve my speedball game than to see who wins. And besides, watching people shoot each other is always fun :-)

The lack of exposure is what hurts the pro game, though. Its hard to have a favorite team when you can never see them play. Hell, how many people here could name more than 10 pro players? I would be hard pressed to.

If someone here made a post like "You guys see that great match between Aftershock and the SC Ironmen? It was amazing!!", who would reply? Chances are no one saw the match. And more than that, no one really cares who won because A) they don't have a favorite team, B) they don't know anyone on either team, and C) they aren't competing on that level, so the outcome doesn't effect them.

However, if for example, members of the JAX Warriors posted here on a regular basis, then members would be more inclined to talk up events they were at, because it would be about supporting people you knew. If cphilip or Army or someone like that were on a pro team, then people might care more.

Hope that made some sense, Tom. :-)

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CamoSplashed MiniMag
S/N MM12913
Clear AGD Warp Feed
14" SP AA

Lots of stuff coming...

MagDog68
07-09-2001, 07:25 AM
Sorry Tom, I don't find paintball to be much of a spectator sport. I'd rather be playing it than watching it.

~Fred

apache
07-09-2001, 07:38 AM
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AGD:
The subject of pro teams or pro paintball never seems to come up in this forum. We were wondering why? All comments welcome.
</font>

Probably the majority of the forum members are not tournament players. I guess that the rec players are not so interested in what goes on in the pro world.

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-- Apache.

MicroB
07-09-2001, 07:59 AM
I have been playing paintball for six months at a local field and they just put in a hyperball field (in may) word got around San Diego. Now pretty much every weekend team Ironman and Dynasty, and sometimes members of the family show up and play. My first experience with a pro team;

1. Ironman; rude, obnoxious cry babes that wipe everything. I was very disappointed. They cuss ALOT. There also rude off the field.

2. Dynasty; pretty much the same as Ironman. they mirror each other well.

3. The Family; the whole team hasn't shown but the players didn't wipe that I watched not once, and they didn't swear as much or at all.

While watching them play (Ironman and Dynasty)cussing and scream'en at each other one of Ironmans front players went to bunker a front of Dynasty's and his gun malfunctioned (I think his revvy batteries died and blocked the ball from feeding), so the player throws his 2001 LCD Angel and angel air on the ground so hard he bent the barrel.

The most frustrating part is there are typically 60-80 newbies standing around watching these players wanting to play like them and the teams are acting like this, what kind of role model is that. If they were to televise these teams, I think it would give the sport a bad rep.

These are good players(other than the wiping) and I do learn from watching them, but they need to clean up their act. Given these circumstances, I don't think to highly of Pro-teams. Given this is my only experience with them.

BTW, there were 6-8 newbies fighting over the bent angel barrel.

[This message has been edited by MicroB (edited 07-09-2001).]

luke
07-09-2001, 08:15 AM
Seems to me that the industry is geared to the new players. Look threw most
magazines and they are choked full of entry level packages and articles. What little I have personally seen on upper level paintball were tournament results only. In and by itself, this information is pretty boring. If there are magazines out there that feature more about Pros, I'm unaware of it. Point is, I have never seen a pro player, therefor I have nothing to say about them. I think its the fault of the of the leaders in the industry, which would have to be the manufactures. Manufacturers really control the direction of the sport. Therefor, they should take a larger role in linking players / equipment / sport information at different levels, not just the entry level. What I mean by this is when you enter the sport, there are a plethora of places to get help and ideas to find your way and settle in. Once you are settled in and reached the level to start playing tournament level paintball, the industry no longer provides information for you. Such as, equipment up grades, modifications, and true paintball tactics, not just: present a small target, learn to snap shoot, don't come over the top of your bunker, practice, practice practice. There has been some that has tried to provide
information to the intermediate players but it has been short lived. Examples: APG ran a few articles called T N T for tournament players. I think that ran for 6 months. The information was mediocre at best anyway. Paintball consumer guide ran 3 months (I think) this was an AWESOME magazine.

Not sure if this related to your question or not, but maybe it should. Perhaps if
sponsorship of the Pro teams included them educating the players that need their
help, it would bring the Pro players into the mainstream and provide much needed
attention to the intermediate players. Our sport has no coaches, and players want to move forward but lack the knowledge to do so. Perhaps the Pros could help until our sport evolves again.

I would like to point out that the reason I have stuck around your forum here is
because it does provide some of the information I desire, and some I can't get
anywhere else. It also provides links to other sites that are a huge help. I understand why you and your Techs don't spend more time on the forums, but I gotta say, you all are what will continue to make this a success. Having you all online helps keep the forums on a learning level, which should be a big payoff for AGD.

Imagine what this site would be like if AGD sponsored a Pro team and part of the
deal was one of the players had to spend a certain amount of time online everyday. What better way to for AGD to keep track of it's sponsored team and think of the information they could pass on to us.

Just my $.35

luke

RoadDawg
07-09-2001, 08:15 AM
I don't pay attention to tourny's at all. I have never been in one and I wouldn't mind trying it once but I am happy and content with rec ball. Only time I hear anything about pro tourny's is at my local field many months after it is over. Only pro game I have actually watched was back in 96 on ESPN when the Parapeligic Turtles beat the Ironmen. Now the turtles are our local pro team. Don't follow them very much though. If it was televised I think I would follow a tiny bit more.

Nick "RoadDawg"

Major Jam
07-09-2001, 08:18 AM
The pro teams of today do not have the honor of the rec ball in the 80's.

Back then you had the elder respectfull men that were playing for the sport and fun. They were just happy they could play and afford it. http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif

Today you have young punks, parents with too much money, prize money and 5 cars given to the winning team.

Too much cheating, too vulgar, too much wiping, too much favoritism from refs and too much attitude.

The problem with sponsoring is you have to sponsor these young punk teams that get out there and win at "any" cost.

If you sponsor the "mature" teams they don't win. http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif

And we all know, a winning team sells markers. It's not how you play, it's wether you win or not. http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif

luke
07-09-2001, 08:28 AM
Army
hitmanng
Dogbone
Eagle
Whisky
Thordic

I would like to say that you guys made some very strong points. I agree with most everything you said.

luke

automagkid
07-09-2001, 09:06 AM
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MagDog68:
Sorry Tom, I don't find paintball to be much of a spectator sport. I'd rather be playing it than watching it.

~Fred</font>

i thiks its an awsome sport to watch, especially if its between pro teams. go to warpig.com & watch some pig tv.

i-luv-my-rt
07-09-2001, 09:41 AM
I guess i'm the odd-ball. I love tournaments and pro players and everything. I am prolly a rookie in NPPL but in local im am. I love the intensity and i'm starting to stop playing with my friends so i can save up for the tourny. I plan on playing skyball and other nppl next year. i couldnt live without tournies!!! http://www.automags.org/ubb/wink.gif

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This is your brain
AUTOMAG
Your brain on drugs
autococker
GET FOCUSED

mykroft
07-09-2001, 09:52 AM
I like watching tourney's, and tournament players. Unfortunately my experience of competetive players has generally been pretty bad. There are guys like the Beach Boyz and PSI who are cool, don't cheat, and don't mind playing a few newbies (which I am compared to them), but playing against guys like Masters of Mayhem, who are real dicks, and well known for cheating, and overshooting, even in rec ball, is simply not fun. If there was a major tour, which enforced a code of conduct, and was death on cheaters (I say wiping=DQ minimum) I would be very interested in supporting and possibly playing rookie/novice in that league.

The Problem with tourney's, to quote a unnamed PB video:

"That's just splatter Mr. Long" ref to Bob Long, after 4 breaks on his shoulder.



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Mykroft Holmes IV
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My Mag:
CF11023
Classic Feed
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Ring trigger
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PMI 48/3K Preset HPA

Accuracy By Volume is not the answer

Rooster
07-09-2001, 10:29 AM
Most pro teams do not interest me. What i do get a kick out of is hearing about Team AGD, especially after that whole deal at Challenge cup. That was a great read, and then having JJ post about it on these boards.

Rooster

thei3ug
07-09-2001, 10:34 AM
My extent of pro following is how stupid they look in advertisements in magazines.

Richy_C
07-09-2001, 10:37 AM
Bah, pros cheat the hell outta everything, i bet you i had a better time hanging out with a guy at my field witha S/F mag then i ever would hanging with pros. And i never even learned that guyys name, and that is what paintballs about, going to the field and having a good old time, makeing friends you'll never see again, but you'll never forget. You know, it's miller time.

thecavemankevin
07-09-2001, 10:45 AM
Like eagle said, too much confusion and not enough standardization. You could follow the pro circut in NPPL (wich that league is a joke) or APL and so on. But it would be difficult to follow all circuts and know all pro teams.

Plus there aren't any pro's that come here that i know of.

Ityl
07-09-2001, 01:31 PM
I think local teams mean more to me cause I see, talk, and play with them. A lot of times too I see people on teams that don't know what they are talking about at all, besides how to play.

Dogbone
07-09-2001, 01:54 PM
I've got a question for those of you who may know. In just about every professional sport I know of the criteria for being a "pro" player are that you have the ability to compete at the highest level and that they are capable of making a living at it.

Now I may be wrong but isn't the criteria for being a pro paintball player the amount of tournaments you participate in? First you start out as a novice, then after so many events you have to move up to rookie and so on through amateur then pro right? So would a pro then be a person who just participates in lots of tournaments, regardless of skill?

As to making a living at playing tournaments is there anybody out there actually doing it? No full or part time jobs or business ownership, just income from playing tournaments that is sufficient to make a living. Sponsorships can be considered income I think, it is a form of payment. I suppose it is possible but I haven't heard of anyone doing it.

FeelTheRT
07-09-2001, 01:59 PM
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mykroft:
I like watching tourney's, and tournament players. Unfortunately my experience of competetive players has generally been pretty bad. There are guys like the Beach Boyz and PSI who are cool, don't cheat, and don't mind playing a few newbies (which I am compared to them), but playing against guys like Masters of Mayhem, who are real dicks, and well known for cheating, and overshooting, even in rec ball, is simply not fun. If there was a major tour, which enforced a code of conduct, and was death on cheaters (I say wiping=DQ minimum) I would be very interested in supporting and possibly playing rookie/novice in that league.

The Problem with tourney's, to quote a unnamed PB video:

"That's just splatter Mr. Long" ref to Bob Long, after 4 breaks on his shoulder.

</font>


heh that reminds me, one day at one of the fields i goto, there was a guy he was either Pro or Am. in one game, i was watching ( it was raining that day so i didn't feel like playing in a muddy field) and that guy just wiped out entire team and at the end, he came back to his own flag station and goggled everysingle newbie and first timers sitting in the back because they were accedently shooting at him.

Terror
07-09-2001, 02:23 PM
Ok,
I hate to beat a dead horse... But I wanna put in my 2 cents. I've met a few tourney players. The 2 guys I met that were on an amateur team where great. They were friendly, good sports and gave up advice without being arrogant. They took my friend and me onto their team (playing recball) without hesitation after the "pro" players at the field blew us off. I really couldn't even tell you if they were pro or not but the am players said they heard of em. But I'm happy to report that despite them wipping a few times and almost getting into a fist fight over a clean hit, we whipped the crap out of them. I found that because they were so cocky, I got mad at myself if I screwed up. I had to play flawlessly against them just to shut them up. And it sucked all the fun out of the game for me. I don't care if I get gogged 3 games in a row as long as everybody laughs about it afterwards,(well... I might feel stupid) Just don't forget why you are playing the game.

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God was my Co-pilot, but we crashed into a mountain and I was forced to eat him...

Miscue
07-09-2001, 02:35 PM
Ego crazed fools many of em. Just watch the paintball videos... what do they all talk about? How good he is, how good that guy is, what a legend of the game this guy is. They are inventing their own greatness.

I wish there was a great team out there that didn't have the sponsorships, didn't open their mouths, played with great sportsmanship... and whooped their sorry butts every time. And I have no doubt that there are people out there fully capable of this, and then some. These pro's haven't had the chance to meet people that can out right whoop em... the best out there never played the game or never decided to excel in it. The bar can be raised quite a bit.

Paintball is a very small and young sport. Where are the Paintball instructors, the multiple books on Paintball theory? This sort of thing, the signs of a developed sport... there is nothing like this. You have to learn by playing. What mainstream sport is like this? None. What sport is there where you can become a pro in just 2 years or some really short amount of time? Something wrong with this picture. We have yet to see an extremely high level game of paintball.

I'm not impressed by most pros by any means... a lot of them just want to make you beat them with a stick because they are so full of themselves.

I'm impressed by players who play hard, play fair, help other players, legitimately know what they are talking about... they love the sport for what it is. The one's that seem to be enjoying themselves on the field, win or lose.

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'Sacrifice the Body'
68 PF - HyperFrame - 68 Flatline - SS BigShot

Miscue's Profile (http://www.liquidmagma.com/automags/miscue.php)

[This message has been edited by Miscue (edited 07-09-2001).]

Eagle
07-09-2001, 03:12 PM
I think another thing is that the games tend to be so short compared to other spectator sports, and most of all, as has been said many time before, it's not on tv; most tourny info I learn comes from various magazines, a month or 2 after it happened, you see no plays, you have to rely on someone else to describe it.

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Die Screaming

Thordic
07-09-2001, 03:21 PM
Miscue makes an extremely good point.

Someone like Micheal Jordan or Wayne Gretzsky, or whoever, they have spent years and years, most of their lives, devoted to their sport. They practiced every day. From the ages of 5 to the present they dedicated themselves to the sport. Thats what makes them pros.

Our "pros" are guys who have been playing for what, 10 years tops? 90% of them have been playing less than that. And they practice every weekend?

Granted, paintball is a little expensive to go out and practice every day, but we have yet to hit the level of play that other "professional" sports have reached.

Its easy to respect a player like Micheal Jordan, or even someone who plays pro and sucks. Its a lot harder to respect someone like Todd Martinez who has been playing a few years only, and gives an interview like he did. Even if they don't have the attitude that he has, it still isn't the same.

No further explanations, you either understand me by now or you don't :-)

Jax-Warriors
07-09-2001, 04:02 PM
I am a Pro Player and my team has been supported by AGD for over 10 Years now. We started out like most of you playing on the weekends for fun. We played in tourneys as Am players for many years. We decided we wanted to try and compete with the top teams in the World at the pro level. I would like to thank AGD for all of there support and thank everyone in the forum for supporting AGD.
Thanks


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PGP
Jax-Warriors

magc68
07-09-2001, 04:28 PM
well if u name any other pro sprot out there u will affilate it with a player. every sport has their great player. paintball however has yet to see this great player. yes we have great players but when it comes to sportsmanship and integrity and off the feild greatness we dont see it. from what i have noticed that all the pro people care about is themselfs and dont care much about the rest of the sport. name one pro team that actually promotes this sport to the general public. also most of the teams considered pro are really not a pro caliber. i can argue this by am B teams wiping out pro teams.

i think this sport is still run by the industry and not the players. this is one big killer of our sport. if any of u try to start a paintball buisness its hard since the big distrbutors run the sport and hurts the small dealers which actually keep this sport alive.

in almost any other sport u have young kids aspiring to play pro. in paintball all the young kids r worrying about getting enough money to go out and shoot 500 rounds in the woods for fun. they dont care about the pro teams cause there r no finacail breaks for them to get there. i see SO many very talented players that cant play cause they dont have the money to pay the price needed to play tournys. so right off the start u elimate most of the good players just because of finaces.

the people that can pay the money to play at a higher level usually dont make it outta the local level. this is due to no team organisation. competitive paintball is a team sport. there is no basis for a team when kids start playing. every other sport has leagues and such at a young age. community support these leagues and bring their kids to play in these leagues and the commited talented players come out and to the next level. with the parents supporting these activites it also helps a lot in the attitude of the players and gives them a lot of respect for where they r. where in paintball do we have any of this?

so we have pro players that arnt pro caliber, and industry that hurt the growth of the sport. most of the general public to put down our sport. and no baisis for a good upbringing for yuoung players.

how can we care about pro players when we r just looking to make it the next game to play and find a team that can do the same.

a lot of work needs to be done to get the pro level any recognition. they need to handel themselves in a professional manner and the industry has to help get these players to the top.

ok now that i basically trashed our sport ill go back in my hole now.

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Dragoon
07-09-2001, 04:36 PM
I don't think I would notice if all the "pros" just up and vanished.

Factory teams however, I do tend to like. They become a personification of the company and demonstrate the it's products.

Otherwise I'm only interested in hearing about local teams.

mag happy
07-09-2001, 04:37 PM
the main reason i dont talk about it is because what is there to talk about other than guess what team won this and what team won that. to me it does'nt matter. but theres i kid on my team who wont shoot a barrel shorter than 14in because almost all pro players use them. its mainly because most paintballers dont care what equipment the pros use. jacksonville could be using angel or emags or shockers and they would still play just the same. (except for the fact that if they had angels they'd be jaming the damn bolts back into place all the time.)

Dragoon
07-09-2001, 04:37 PM
I don't think I would notice if all the "pros" just up and vanished.

Factory teams however, I do tend to like. They become a personification of the company and demonstrate it's products.

Otherwise I'm only interested in hearing about local teams.

DarkRipper
07-09-2001, 04:56 PM
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mag happy:
(except for the fact that if they had angels they'd be jaming the damn bolts back into place all the time.)</font>


After owning 12 angels over a period of 4 years, I can honestly say that I've had to push my bolt back about 10 times, give or take. That's not too bad, considering how much I played in that time period.

Pros:

I've met em, played against em, played with em.

Some are great guys, some are arrogant pricks.

I think the sport wouldn't be the same without them; it's the high end tourny scene that drives the market for the new toys.

We'd still be wearing softball catcher pads as knee/shin pads without the tourny scene. Nitrogen wouldn't be as popular and cheap without it, and fields wouldn't cater to the people that did buy tanks as much as they do.

Goggles: We wouldn't have around 10 different goggles to choose from, we'd have maybe two or three.

Paint? Without the tourny scene being so big and drawing in the kids and the dollars, the paint would still be 90-120 a case for 2500.
Now? You can get a case of 2000 for less than 40 bucks, retail.

It's true, I have issues with the "pros" that toss their equipment on the ground. I consider them and the cheaters to be the real downside to the top end of the sport.

But not miss them if they were gone? I think you'd miss the new toys that come out for the tourny players.
Maybe some of you would be glad to go back to 95 when everyone shot a mag or a cocker, and they worked when you babied them.
You still use C02, so what do you care, right? Let them buy expansion chambers and have massive dropoff after 5 shots in the winter.

What do we need a tourny level to the game for, after all?

I liken it to an arms race; and we are all the winners.

MHO
DR
http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif


------------------
Owned a PF mag in 96.
=)

ReTroMagBoy
07-09-2001, 04:57 PM
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mag happy:
the main reason i dont talk about it is because what is there to talk about other than guess what team won this and what team won that. to me it does'nt matter. but theres i kid on my team who wont shoot a barrel shorter than 14in because almost all pro players use them. its mainly because most paintballers dont care what equipment the pros use. jacksonville could be using angel or emags or shockers and they would still play just the same. (except for the fact that if they had angels they'd be jaming the damn bolts back into place all the time.)</font>

its the EXACT opposite...you wouldnt know how many people buy gear because pros use them....i guarantee if Avalanche(the team most kids know about...) all started using warp feeds, you would see a HUGE increase in warp feed sales...

also i could say that the gun does matter. No matter how sweet my shocker was, i couldnt play nearly as effictevly as when i am using my angel or now maybe my emag. THe shocker was just to bulky and the front grip was too close to the grip frame for me to take accurate fast pop shots. This is only me, every gun feels better or worse in other peoples hands.

MagMan5446
07-09-2001, 04:58 PM
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MicroB:
I have been playing paintball for six months at a local field and they just put in a hyperball field (in may) word got around San Diego. Now pretty much every weekend team Ironman and Dynasty, and sometimes members of the family show up and play. My first experience with a pro team;

1. Ironman; rude, obnoxious cry babes that wipe everything. I was very disappointed. They cuss ALOT. There also rude off the field.

2. Dynasty; pretty much the same as Ironman. they mirror each other well.

3. The Family; the whole team hasn't shown but the players didn't wipe that I watched not once, and they didn't swear as much or at all.

While watching them play (Ironman and Dynasty)cussing and scream'en at each other one of Ironmans front players went to bunker a front of Dynasty's and his gun malfunctioned (I think his revvy batteries died and blocked the ball from feeding), so the player throws his 2001 LCD Angel and angel air on the ground so hard he bent the barrel.

The most frustrating part is there are typically 60-80 newbies standing around watching these players wanting to play like them and the teams are acting like this, what kind of role model is that. If they were to televise these teams, I think it would give the sport a bad rep.

These are good players(other than the wiping) and I do learn from watching them, but they need to clean up their act. Given these circumstances, I don't think to highly of Pro-teams. Given this is my only experience with them.

BTW, there were 6-8 newbies fighting over the bent angel barrel.

[This message has been edited by MicroB (edited 07-09-2001).]</font>

I've played with Bob Longs Ironmen at my local Sherwood Forest. They seemed pretty honest, I didnt see any wipe...BTW, you should've ran up and swiped up that angel

------------------
She was a fast machine
She kept her motor clean
She was the best damn woman I had ever seen
She had the sightless eyes
Telling me no lies
Knockin' me out with those American thighs
Taking more than her share
Had me fighting for air
She told me to come but I was already there
'Cause the walls start shaking
The earth was quaking
My mind was aching
And we were making it and you -
Shook me all night long
You shook me alll night long

-AC/DC

FeelTheRT
07-09-2001, 05:03 PM
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Jax-Warriors:
I am a Pro Player and my team has been supported by AGD for over 10 Years now. We started out like most of you playing on the weekends for fun. We played in tourneys as Am players for many years. We decided we wanted to try and compete with the top teams in the World at the pro level. I would like to thank AGD for all of there support and thank everyone in the forum for supporting AGD.
Thanks


</font>


PGP: are you going to post here offen? i see that that was ur first post here http://www.automags.org/ubb/wink.gif

LittleMike14
07-09-2001, 05:05 PM
Me personally follow pro, but I can compete in the Amateur B division, so I should follow it. But I can see that most of you don't and play local tournament (which is nothing wrong with that) but why should you follow pro, because chances are that you will never play against them.

FeelTheRT
07-09-2001, 05:12 PM
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by DarkRipper:

After owning 12 angels over a period of 4 years, I can honestly say that I've had to push my bolt back about 10 times, give or take.


</font>

y does the bolt stick in the Angels?

mykroft
07-09-2001, 05:15 PM
On Angel LED's it's really easy to jam the bolt when you chop, a bit of shell get's between the bolt and breech. LCD's have a longer bolt that's harder to jam, just about the only real improvement to the LCD over a late model LED.

------------------
Mykroft Holmes IV
------------------
My Mag:
CF11023
Classic Feed
16" CP .689
14" JnJ Stainless
Ring trigger
WGP Reg.
PMI 48/3K Preset HPA

Accuracy By Volume is not the answer

apache
07-09-2001, 05:17 PM
After reading the messages so far, it seems to me that the pro ball is ignored in AO because of the lack of knowledge of it.

http://www.p8ntballer.com is a great site directed mostly to tournament players and is affiliated with the Paintball Games International magazine. It has how-to-play articles, interviews, gear reviews and very recently updated forums which have many pro players participating. I recommend you to pay a visit to p8ntballer, there is a lot of information!



------------------
-- Apache.

Dubstar112
07-09-2001, 05:57 PM
I would like to follow the pros on tv or on the net, or even in a weekly highlights paper that you could subscribe to(HINT HINT COUGH COUGH.. somone should pick up on that one), as of now: the word pro means my local field owner.. http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif

virus
07-09-2001, 06:09 PM
me.. i'l read the highlights if they are in what ever mag i am reading... maybe even think what a rush it would be to play a format like that on a regular basis.... then to read in the same mag how the teams almost allways try and bully the ref to make a call they want or to change it so it doesn't hurt them... hearing how much some players wipe and get away with it...(this to me would lead to massive overshooting esp. if the ref(s) were not there right away to make a call)


now granted this may only be a small group of players at this level that do this... but the trickle down effect is there.....
now for the players at that level that are as honest as they come.... we need alot more of them and the morals/ethics/responsibilty whatever you call it to this game

with all this i dont follow the pro scene and probly wont.. for the most part because it has no direct bearing on how/where/with what i play with...


myself i feel that all these "pro" events should not be reffed by teams, but should be reffed by indipents(sp??) that have nothing to do with the sport other then to ref...
of course there are other things i would like to see changed... but thats another story....




[This message has been edited by virus (edited 07-09-2001).]

xboxrob
07-09-2001, 06:26 PM
I used to play tournament paintball, but got so fed up with all of the cheating and "win-at-all-cost" attitudes of players that I almost stoped playing paintball altogethor.
I only play rec ball now, and love it. I have no interest in tournament paintball. If the sport ever gets "cleaned up" I may get back in or at least watch some of it (if it were televised).
I still play a mean (though honest & obsenitiy free) rec ball game (E-Mag / Warp Feed / etc.).

rifleman
07-09-2001, 07:07 PM
I think paintball is the only sport where the manufactors are more popular than the players....

I "would" get into talking about pro-paintball and such IF there was an easy way for me to keep up on it. Such as t.v.; for paintball we only have warpig.com and thats just about it....

MicroB
07-09-2001, 07:42 PM
The angel was in the middle of the field and the game had just started http://www.automags.org/ubb/frown.gifor i would have grabbed it!

Ninja B0Y
07-09-2001, 09:09 PM
I don't understand how some of you who have never played with some of these pros, who dont know them personally, can criticize them based on heresy. The truth is many of the top contending teams do get full rides, and some pros in the nipple do get paid. But when you have a full shabang like that, you owe it to your sponsors to produce some results or else your arse is getting the boot. Some of the lower calibur pro and AM A's have to pay their way in and when you're forking out that much money, emotions can run high.

You guys complain about the way they act, how much they cuss and their behavior based on what you've seen them do. Don't judge all of the pros just because you've seen a bad apple or two. Have you ever seen what a football player does when he gets called for holding, encroachment, or pass interference?
I don't personally KNOW any pros but I do constantly play with em and against them. FYI not all of SC Ironmen is located in SC. At least not Micah, Ollie, and Rich. And not all of Dynasty is located in SC as well, at least not Alex, Angel, Johnny, Marcus and maybe a few others. People play this sport for different reasons, and for some of us those reasons have evolved into something different than when we first started.

For me, it's all about making it to the top and winning against the best teams. Right now, I'm on that road and I intend to make it there. It's probably the same reason or motivation that current pros had when they were at my stage. I don't play so I can meet Jimbo Joe Schmoe at the local field. I could care less about him. In fact if he gets in my way, I'm gonna do him like I would anyone else. There is no such thing as surrendering in my book (with the exception of girls and little and I do mean little kids...). Sometimes when you're competing at a level where most of the population can't even begin to ponder, behaviors are altered because of the constant pressure thats on you. I'm thinking most of you have never played against a nippler, much less a pro.

When you do, you remember this message and you'll understand what they have to go up against. People like themselves, and sometimes people who are better than them.


[This message has been edited by Ninja B0Y (edited 07-09-2001).]

luke
07-09-2001, 09:40 PM
Seems like this has turned into a Pro player bash. Its the same OLD attitude that's tagged onto any tourney team. Got to hand it to Jax-Warriors for even taking the time to register to make that post.

mykroft
07-09-2001, 09:49 PM
Many of us have had bad experiences with top amateur and pro teams, hence the bashing. I've met some great guys who play top-seed amateur (few pro players up here) and some of them are great people, some aren't, and the bad seem to outway the good. Then again, bad and/or controversial news gets better press, so I suspect the majority of Pro/semi-pro players are good people. No matter how much is riding on your performance, pulling a McEnroe (for you tennis fans) is bad sport, bad for your image and bad for paintballs. Guy's like the Jax Warriors, and the Beach Boyz up here prove that you don't have to be a dick to be a pro, and more pro players have to realize that, or watch the league tours die.

------------------
Mykroft Holmes IV
------------------
My Mag:
CF11023
Classic Feed
16" CP .689
14" JnJ Stainless
Ring trigger
WGP Reg.
PMI 48/3K Preset HPA

Accuracy By Volume is not the answer

Bartman
07-09-2001, 10:54 PM
To be totaly honest with you AGD, Pro teams realy mean nothing to me personaly. I have been playing tourney ball for about 4 years now, and have never followed who is who, and what team dose what.

I feel that a player is a player. Getting beat by a pro just means that I was just beat by some one beter or a better team. I have played a few big name amature teams of the years, the most notable was the Jackson warrior 2 years ago at skyball. We also played serveral other at that tourney, and we had fun playing them and learning from them. Yes, I know now we don't want to freight train hte flag off the break, but, heck they where the raining skyball champs, we had to try something.

But back to the pro's, are jsut players too. Some beter then other, but all still players.

Any ways, this is the most I have writen on Ao since becomeing a member, I will stop now.

Bartman
Team I have No idea
www.ihni.org (http://www.ihni.org)

magman007
07-09-2001, 11:05 PM
i might follow the pros better if they werent so "perfect". Maybe if they played with gear thats not top of the line all of the time. maybe use a spyder right outof the box. that would be interesting. it thin it would be awesome to see bob long or that cheeze head tod martinez(whom i lost all interest in in that interview) bunker some one with a spyder compact. that would shoqw thier real amound of skill. that would prove to me that they really are pros and not electro toting spwery and prey players.then they would rank with the altimers like wany gretzkey and michale jordan

fanera17
07-09-2001, 11:25 PM
Why we never talk about pro teams or pro tournaments...
1) Because you never hear about pro teams(You will never find pro player from Ironman or Jacksonville warriors on AO forum or on any other net forum)
2)Paintball magazines never have any articals about pro tournaments
3)They never show Pro paintball tournaments on tv because they cheat a lot they cuss a lot!!! (exemple:match between two pro team and the only thing you hear is gun shots and beap sound thats blocks cussing)
4)It's hard to follow Pro Tournaments because they are only 5 or 6 big tournaments for the holl season and they are only in the really big citys like Los Angeles or New York or somwhere else.... you got the point(why not have more tournaments in more citys)
5) MANY PEOPLE HERE DON'T CARE OR DON'T FOLLOW PRO WORLD BECUASE OF ALL THE FACTORS THAT I LISTED

Scorch
07-09-2001, 11:31 PM
I agree with DR.

Without demanding top players, the technology of the sport would suffer.

I don't take my direction from what Pro players use. They are largely driven but the need for money. Not as individuals but the team. It costs big bucks to fund a pro team.

I look more to AM teams for clues of what technology works best.

I play for a Novice team. We don't play NPPL yet but we do frequently play NPPL AM teams in open tourneys. There are a few that don't need R or X ratings but most seem less than concerned about sportsmanship.

Not quite TV ready. http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif

Scorch


------------------
I'm an artist. Please don't wipe my work until you show it to the ref. ;)

Team StL Graffiti (http://www.stlgraffiti.com)

*MacDev Enhanced Claret C&C Angel LCD* (http://www.stlgraffiti.com/images/playerpic/scorch-warp5l.jpg)
2K Lunar Grey EvolutionX AutoCocker (http://www.stlgraffiti.com/images/playerpic/lorisevo.jpg)
ScorchTech 18v X-rev
AGD WarpFeed
Scorch's RT (sold) (http://www.stlgraffiti.com/images/playerpic/scorch-rt.jpg)
_ _ _ _ _ _ ___________________ _ _ _ _ _ _
Sponsors:
MacDev - Australia (http://www.macdev.net) * Gateway Paintball (http://www.gatewaypaintball.com)

-§on-
07-09-2001, 11:31 PM
Im a Tourny and Rec player, but the "PRO'S" are problay just too good for this forum...Or we are just too good from them... http://www.automags.org/ubb/cool.gif

Richy_C
07-09-2001, 11:38 PM
The reason paintball isn't ontv is because there aren't enough people to advertise during events,

nastymag
07-10-2001, 12:50 AM
i play pan am, and i follow it closely have to check who has this many points or who made the finals ect. one game WGP factory team was playing the SF hornets and the right tape for WGP gun went down ( i love mags) he left the game cussing and shouting and he was able to throw his autococker preety far ( into the mud)
this was all in young guns( 15 and under)
this kid is already too bad for paintball.
the SF hornets young gun team was really nice(unlike the older hornets)
i talked to them for three hours. and still do when i go to there feild they let us practice with them and stuff.
this is what turneyball is about and intense paintball.

i do follow pro when i have a chance.

Go THE FAMILY, aftershock

------------------
in the biggining god created two gun and he said thuo automag shall be for the just and fair and the autococker for the evil and cheaters.

MNMINIMAG
07-10-2001, 01:59 AM
The closest I've come to "Pros" were AM A NPPL Tournament players. They only discussed 3 things, 1) Themselves. 2)Their Angel. 3) Why your gun sucks. I guess you could say I don't have much interest in "Pro" paintball players. I think I would follow the tournament scene more closely if some organization would form to encompass the sport. How many Leagues, Organizations, and Federations exist? Too many.

Slapp
07-10-2001, 06:27 AM
From what I have read about tournament purses it would seem difficult for anyone to truly make a living purely from tournament winnings. Rightly or wrongly I think of "pro" paintball players as avid hobbyists who use equipment from any company that will sponsor them (within reason). Nothing wrong with that, same thing with Nike and basketball players although for much higher $$. I don't want to spray 2 cases of paint per day and sink thousands of dollars into paintball equipment. I'm a rec player who wants well made, trouble free gear rather than the latest gadgets in the hottest new color. I play mainly woods rec ball and scenario games so hyperball competition results hold little interest for me. I bought my Mag after reading posts that stated AGD markers could be run over by a semi and tossed in the trunk for 3 months and still shoot like new. The excellent customer service offered by AGD was also a major selling point and AGD has truly lived up to and even surpassed this reputation! Keep up the good work!


<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by AGD:
All,

The subject of pro teams or pro paintball never seems to come up in this forum. We were wondering why? All comments welcome.

Thanks,

AGD</font>

RobAGD
07-10-2001, 07:53 PM
PGP - Nice to see you around man http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif

Welp here goes my $0.02 worth of info on this.


Way way back in the day when I played my first NPPL event at the 93 World Cup in Ny, I was looking around and I found Bob Long and the Ironmen. I actually want to ask him some questions about my MiniCocker which was an evil evil gun that didn't like me very much. When I found Bob I talked to him as he got readdy for a game and he was very pleasant and nice as were Dirk, Shane, Marty B and several other guys. Then I met up with Bob Rose ( Rosie ) from GZ now ( back then Master Blasters ) and we talked and as he reffed and I watched games I was impressed at how some people ( like Rosie, and the players from Bad Co UK ) took the reffing as a responcabily to be done right. They cleaned out bunkers between games, they refed very fair and were on top of everything on the field. Some of these people were from teams like Bad Company UK, Master Blasters etc. These guys showed me what it was to be a "Pro"

We got help from Ed Head ( Jax Warriors ) when we need more paint for the Semis and Finals ( they Went Pro at this event as I recall because they were the first to use Compressed Air, I recall a skid of Scuba Tanks they filled from ), we got help from Smart Parts ( Billy and Adam ) over all it was a great event for us. We ended up winning the Amature event, after a first day where we were happy that we were not in 28th place of 28 teams http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif Playing 3 pro teams your first day in your first "national" level event is one hell of a wake up call. Next day we drew Aftershock and had them 6 v 4 and then they turned on the Mojo and spanked us not loosing another player. We made it in by 5 points after waxing our 2 other Am teams on Day 2.

But over the years I have seen how the game has changed. Where large distributors/Manufactures wield more power than would be reasonable and use that influance to change the course of games/events, get teams to lay down and in general manipulate thing to suit them.

I have seen a player Wipe a goggle hit in front of spectators, and then right after that get cut from his team. I have seen players play on to the point that they told the guy they cheat "Sorry dude but I HAD to get you out of there". Then I have see guys get clipped on the loader and call them selves out instead of whipping it, burrying it in the bunker or other act.

As with life you have your selection of a-holes and nice guys, so don't judge them all or make blakent statements about how they all cheat and wipe.

As with walk ons you dont know everything thats going on, on the field, just because you think you saw a guy get shot doesnt mean he did, or that he wiped the hit. Thats the biggest thing I see mistaken when Rec ballers watch Top level teams play.

-Robert

fenris69
07-10-2001, 09:05 PM
heres my prob with pro.
1. too many mullets.
2. yes im kidding, i know its just the generation http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif

ive only met one pro player...thatd be stormin' norman, and hes a wicked guy. as for the rest?? i only know what ive seen and plenty of it is bad. but lets face it, theres not a HUGE to be pro. no money, cars ,women etc...as with other sports. just the game. so yeah...maybe they can act a little childish...yeah some cheat and it disgusts me...but look around. ive never heard a bad word about the JAX, and then there Russian Legion, these guys are deadly serious...more and more teams are like this now as larger better sponsors get into it, bigger prizes, more attention etc... its going the way we want it to be, but give it a couple years yet. and if you think other pro sports are immune??? *cough*charlesbarkley,edbelfour(my fav goalie btw),claudelemieux*cough* etc...
like i said...give it a bit and we'll see. they wont be pulling crap when its on national television. as for the good ones...ie.JAX,Legion,Family(man i hate that wholesome name tho) you command true respect from us, your fans.

tremis
07-10-2001, 09:10 PM
Over the years, I've had the opportunity to meet with a whole lot of tournament players. Most Amateur players I've spoken with were nice enough, but talk about people that were full of themselves, (see what I did, look how good we are, or were getting screwed, that's why we are not winning.) As far as pros, they include guys from AAs, both Ironmen, Shock, Lockout, and Bad Co. Sometimes they were quick and didnt spend a lot of time, but that only happened at large tourneys and I have to admit, they looked busy when I started bugging them. When I was on a pretty new team a long while back, we played with/against the AAs often, they were absolutly awesome, they showed us different ways to play individually and as a team. (all by the way are completely on the up and up)years later at the Pitt NPPL we were playing in the 5 man and Robbos hotel room was directly across from ours and he spent about 4 hours over the course of the weekend giving us one of his famous training days in our room. Then later I tried out for Bad Co 2.(BTW they asked me to stay, but it was their last practice before they broke up)They were kind of kool in the morning, but once they realized that I could hang with them they treated me better than any amateur team ever has, great bunch of guys. It seems like they all are like that for the most part, once they realize that your not going to ask them what that long plastic thing hanging from their neck is they warm up quite a bit. I must say that all the advice and thoughts they have shared have influenced me a lot, they opened my eyes to new ways of playing and then of course when I tried it and it worked, Sometimes I had to adjust my gear to fit a newer style of play. The real problem is with higher level am teams that think they are pros. I hate to point fingers, but I'm going to, remember the Oh-Nos( they won the first skyball-am) Some, NOT ALL, of them were real arrogant pricks. That seems to be the level of players that are problems. There are not a million actual pros floating around and I believe that a lot of newer players are confusing the "other" guys for pros. Well thats my 2 cents or 3 cents,looking back at the size of this http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif

Tremis
Certified Tech.
AGD
WGP
WDP

Ninja B0Y
07-10-2001, 10:29 PM
Exactly...another great example? Oliver Lang. This guy is so down to earth that he doesn't act cocky nor does he brag everytime I play with him. Despite the fact that he can decimate 5-6 of us with any other two people, be it low level tourney players or his boys, he still offers his gratitude for the game and sometimes he'll give us some advice if we need it.

Jax-Warriors
07-10-2001, 11:40 PM
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by luke:
Seems like this has turned into a Pro player bash. Its the same OLD attitude that's tagged onto any tourney team. Got to hand it to Jax-Warriors for even taking the time to register to make that post. </font>

No Problem, Not all pro players are Bad not all Rec players are saint




------------------
PGP
Jax-Warriors

Jax-Warriors
07-10-2001, 11:45 PM
<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FeelTheRT:

PGP: are you going to post here offen? i see that that was ur first post here http://www.automags.org/ubb/wink.gif</font>

Yes that was my first post here.
I do work in paintball (Diablo Direct) and I travel alot but i am going to make an effort to post more often.
Thanks



------------------
PGP
Jax-Warriors

DarkRipper
07-11-2001, 07:01 AM
You do know that "decimate" means to eliminate 1 out of 10, don't you?

http://www.automags.org/ubb/wink.gif
DR