To Everyone: You Will ALL Determine the Final Fate of Fight Club

[AGD]

To Everyone Here on AO,

I am distressed at the quantity of negative posts about FC this early in the game. There are also several pleas to let it continue which of course urges me on. This is my baby so I take full responsibility.

I want you all to know that this IS your forum, as promised in a couple weeks we will take a vote on whether it should go or stay. It will be simple, post your votes, majority wins.

OK?? Peace??

AGD

[kickass68mag]

PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM,PROJECT MAYHEM, i think you get teh idea

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Don't run if you can't hide

[magman007]

tom can you put up a nomination post up again? 3 people nominated me in the last post like you said to do and well i dont know it it was rcorded. can we have a nothe nomination post please?

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automag:(verb)1to eliminate from a paintball game, 2to be better than a spray and prey player with a cocker or angel, 3to kick some major arse

[Psycho Chicken]

Well personaly i think that it's to early to tell....give it some more time....If be chance it does get canceled, i have an idea. A forum for BS subjects not related to paintball or airgun. We could call it "The BSer's Corner"....lol

[magman007]

gimp what is that?

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automag:(verb)1to eliminate from a paintball game, 2to be better than a spray and prey player with a cocker or angel, 3to kick some major arse

[CHl2IS]

Well, i dont see of any negative effects, plus they do really long posts, which are fun to read. It's just an option, if you dont like it, dont go there.

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They have intenet on computers now?

[JLove]

I like the fight club idea. Might take a little longer to get off the ground, but I think it will work, and serve as a repository for those FAQ's that you get all the time about new ideas.

[DarkPhoenix]

The forum works, Mr. Kaye. I was one of those whos spoke out against the forum because of the elitistic (is that even a word?) nature of the membership. In retrospect, I am glad that this forum was formed, all the information being exchanged is just that, very informative without the problem of having nuisance posts designed to disrupt the thread. Though, I still have some misgivings about the mebership of the forum (I guess it is a pride thing), it is an outstanding idea which should definitely stay.

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RT Pro P/F
w/ AGD Flatline

[LizzaRTgirl14]

It is a good idea. A Very good Idea. Look at the competition.
However, you don;t want this competition to damage the board, as in the members being 'mad' or whathave you... THat woud be bad. Flames are still not good. Even thoguht most don't admit, you still get jealous if someone is recognized for something and aren't. And that might start something, it might not. You've also gotta think about how many you're letting in the club..

[Sobaco]

AGD take a look at this forum:
http://www.1911forum.com/index.shtm
Here is a well organized forum on a subject with a lot of potential for chaos.

[This message has been edited by Sobaco (edited 07-19-2001).]

[zvanut]

good idea, i have learned a lot w/o havin to filter through OT posts and like other stuff

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My Mag can beat your spyder w/ no paint.~~~me

Dont worry if it wasnt for losers like u, There couldnt be winners like me.~~~me

My mag is my mag, not yours, so go get your own one and be happy like me. ~me

[Jerky]

I think it is kind of silly. I've been playing forever in virtually every tournament league ever made. I love airgun design guns and got to shoot one of the P-5 guns and later one of the first Retro valves before they were released. I work in the industry and have an extensive knowledge of the workings of markers. It is what Ido all day. However, I can't post in the fight club forum because I don't hang out here enough? That is crap.

jerky

[slayer]

I learn a lot of stuff from it. Keep fight club so what if I can't post, I wouldn't know what to post anyway, most of those guys are techs and technological gurus, a few are just popular favorites, but they are popular because they are good posters and have lots of info, but not like the techs and tom.

[ShinyGuy]

I have to keep saying that I think this is a bad idea. I've read the very interesting post there so far and would like to respond to them. I could say I love the idea as long as I'm in but that wouldn't be fair either. I live for the theoretical technical discussions of the type happening in Fight Club but without access to post there I don't have much reason to post in the main forum. You see the problem here.

I think a much better solution would be to have several different *open* forums to better organize the amount of traffic we're getting now. We already have:

general purpose forum
tech forum
buy/sell

Maybe we should add:

technical theory forum
off topic (random BS) forum

and maybe even a "check out my gun" forum

[mykroft]

ShinyGuy: Just do what Rooster and I have done, make a companion thread in the main or tech forums, there has already been a fair bit of cross-pollenation between the twinned threads already.

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Mykroft Holmes IV
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My Mags:
CF11023, Classic Feed, 16" CP .689, 14" JnJ Stainless, Ring trigger, WGP Reg, Diamond Labs Ti Reg Adjuster.

VV00614(Valve)/VV00423(reg), Black Teflon HR Powerfeed, 16" SP AA, Benchy 1x Chrome, Benchy Crossfire cradle/on-off, black foregrip, Macroline.
PMI 48/3K Preset HPA


"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch" R.A.Heinlein - 'The Moon is a Harsh Mistress'

[tranman]

I think its a great idea because most of the people there know what they are talking about and they have proof that something is the way it is because they've done an experiment or they have scientific formulas and equations, stuff like that. Anyways i say keep it because it's a place where I and anyone else can find some really useful info.

[xmetal2001]

Its Intresting Reading, I don't mind it at all, Its not like i'm being forced to read it.

[Allen]

Fight Club is a good idea- it is not all about knowledge, it it about reputation and respect. Many people here (such as me) respect the people allowed to post there, and I will faithfully read the posts until it is removed because the large volume of people who jealously complain. Don't whine because you cant post there, people read your posts in the main forum, only you actually get lots of responses. Tom- another great idea in a hopefully long future of great ideas.

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"Don't spend so much on parts that you can't afford to play."

[PaintGuy89]

I like the idea a lot, keep it. There have been many interesting discussions in there that I have learned a lot from. Its a good idea as it helps many members learn and it gives them something to so to say "reach for" if they want to get into Fight Club.

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Powerfeed Automag with 12" All American barrel, SP Gadget grip, Benchmark 2x frame, Shocktech chrome drop, 48 ci Pure Energy nitro tank, and a thumb velocity adjuster http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by PaintGuy89 (edited 07-20-2001).]

[Lentz]

As i put it the whole thing is based about how much you spend on the computor. Go out and play. the guy who posted earlier who works in the paintball industry and probably wouldnt get a membership is the type of person who should be in an elite club. I just think that this forum would be just a bunch of people who are online a ton. WHATS UP WITH THE MODULAR EMAG is it ever hitting the US

[nastymag]

i like it very much. i may never be a member of it but i still enjoy reading it.

[MagMan5446]

Keep it. I have learned some interesting stuff from Fight Club. Plus the movie rocks.

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You need coolin', baby, I'm not foolin',
I'm gonna say it, yeh! Go back to schoolin',
Way down inside honey, you need it,
I'm gonna give you my love,
I'm gonna give you my love.

Wanna whole lotta love.
Wanna whole lotta love.
Whole lotta love.

-Led Zeppelin

[Wild_Osiris]

I am in AWE over this forum. I missed three days I cant find a trace of my last posts.This forum is just so fast. It goes thru 1.5 pages a day (or so it seems).Well now it is time for me to put my two cents in.

Oh ya about the fight club I think it is a good idea but maybe its gone about wrong. I think you should be more concerned with the connotations you use regarding the qualifications of this fight club. I wouldn't say that this club is for the "Elite, intelligent posters" because there are many forumers capable of writing intelligent posts. Perhaps you, should say that it is for the enthusiasts. The ones that take that extra 10-30 mins on a post.(like heat and Yipe)( People could feel that, AGD is calling them inept by determining the meaningfulness of their posts,In one word very "Uncool"). I think its kind of of degrading to call the general population of the forums inadequate for posting "worthy conversations".

What I believe is the fight club should be one of many upgrades to this forum. Even with the fight club the main forum still overflows with miscellaneous stuff. You cant control the traffic but you can direct it!(much like saying u cant regulate the amount of cars in America but u can build more roads). Although, I think the forum is generally a beautiful thing, it is cluttered. The forum needs more! I think a misc forum, other markers forum, experiences forum and a faq forum (because face it you'll never answer all the questions with just one Faq page).

I also think that this forum can have certain features that would be really nice to have.(make it stand out more, to other forums like Pbnation) The one feature I would really enjoy is one where I can see my last post. I really hate hanging with my friends for a few days; only to come back to this forum and I am unable to find my "old" posts, and have to go thru the onus task, of going thru pages to find replies.

Well now that I am done complaining I would like to point out that your doing a great job with the fight club. I find people are pushing harder to raise there post counts and there flow of conversation. This forum is busting with some much info.(blows my mind, to many questions). Maybe you can train a few of us forumers and we can be "official post guides" (people that can answer questions in a single post, wow what a concept, LoL)(stuff changes).Well this is my post for the day good night!


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In any game you play you need to be aggressive,decsive and have speed.

[hitmanng]

Hey Wild God of the dead. Try the search function. I use it to find all the resent topis I posted to so I can read what people had to say. You can just enter your user and there are all your posts.
Hitmanng

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"I would rather hit once than miss 140 times."

[slayer]

As more and more people are added there may be a mistake every now and then about putting a member in fightclub. If they are donking up the place then they should get voted out. I don't want it to turn into another main forum where I have to wade through posts for three days, to find some topic that I don't know about or deal with all the bickering and whining that some members do(although flaming has cut down a bit, it is almost zero). If fight club goes down hill and does not maintain its level of quality I will not frequent AO anymore. This is just me andI am just voicing my opinion.

[MaGSkEr]

Well i for one haven't liked the forums at all lately. Maybe its fight club, maybe its the fact that the size is just getting huge and it now feels soo.... impersonal. Anyway i think fight club is kinda a waste because although we get some real good info in there its completly destroying this forum. There are tons of threads in here that are just about fight club and people asking "Why" they weren't asked to join.

[daklown33]

I like it a lot, since i have to wait a year too get my Automag, i can learn a lot from it

[Wild_Osiris]

Thanks hitmanng,

I usually don't use the search but I was unaware of its capability to search for personal Posts. Neat! The only thing is I think u missed the whole point of my post. Rather than say, "oh ya man I agree", or a "nah the fight club is sufficient traffic director" ,you said, (with ur connotations sounding very sarcastic)The forum already has that, option, Wild god of the dead. (was wild god of the dead necessary?) I know Osiris is an eyptian god of the under world. (supposably I am suppose to have a beautiful wife called Isis, but I don't,)

Next time you reply to a forumers post, do us all a favor,at least comment on the bulk of the post. Take note that most posts that I write a page for aren't as shallow as one would think.


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In any game you play you need to be aggressive,decsive and have speed.

[BartManSr]

What is this some sort of contest?

Yeah, the fight club would be a good thing, and there are several people in this forum that should be in it.

Let AGD do the picking, and stop begging, crying, and kissing up.

[shartley]

Hello again.

I think that the IDEA of the club was great. But with more things than not, the IDEA is often much better than the reality. LOL

I have sat back and read all sides of this issue, and find the SAME things being tossed around. But can we stop and think about what is really happening? NOTHING in the Fight Club could be NOT posted in the General “for public” areas. In fact, most of the stuff spills over INTO the general areas anyway.

What is the point of that? Say I am in the general areas, I read a great post about something IN the FC… I then GO to the FC and read it, then bounce BACK to the general area to read MORE… what? This does not cause BETTER management, it causes more bouncing around.

But what this DOES do, is cause more pageviews (used to determine the marketing value of a site for promotional reasons). It also causes DOUBLE posts on the SAME topic, causing twice the posting numbers (see above comment). Maybe I am a bit TOO business oriented.. LOL But other than THOSE two reasons, I see no advantages to the FC.

Many have suggested simply making MORE topics. This is a great idea (IMHO). I have seen many boards use this method and it works great. Then the moderators just keep the topic areas clean.

Some have said that they don’t like the word “elite” because it invokes bad feelings for those who don’t “make it” into FC. Well, when someone says that the members post intelligent stuff, what is anyone else suppose to draw from that? That those NOT in the FC post unintelligent posts? LOL So where do you draw the line? Who determines what is worthy, or WHO is? There are too many conflicts of interest here. It seems to boil down to a popularity (or notoriety) issue.

It isn’t? Then why do I see many posters who seem to actually have great things to contribute NOT get into FC? And if that is the case, why not just open it up to EVERYONE and then kick out (or deny access) to those who do not contribute correctly? Use it as a filtering system, and NOT a “members only” club…. Everyone is welcome, but those who abuse it lose it.

Some members already there seem to tout one of the benefits as being “something to reach for”. With this being said, I fall back to my earlier comment about clearly more qualified people NOT being allowed to post anyway. It is like saying to a guy who is a brilliant brain surgeon “Sorry Jim, I know you are more skilled and knowledgeable than my dog groomer (who is a member), BUT, you can’t join our club for Doctors.” And then you seem puzzled why Jim is upset or feels slighted? LOL Even some of the current FC members openly admit that many ARE more qualified to be in it then they are.

Of course, you think current members would complain? LOL You think those who aspire to be in it would complain? That is like wining the lottery, and then saying… “Mrs. Smith down the street deserves this FAR more than I do, so I will not accept it.” LOL Let’s be real.

But some current members (or those wanting to be) also claim that those complaining are just jealous. This may be the case for some, but I really don’t see it as a rule. I don’t aspire to be in FC, but I still think there is a better way to handle it than what is currently in place. I also think that I would be far too HONEST and controversial to be even considered in the FC as it is currently being run. This being the case, might I suggest the following?

I could see a panel of ACTUAL Paintball Industry folks (like no more than 5-10) having a “Dear Abby” or in this case “Dear Fight Club” area. Then anyone could e-mail their questions TO the FC in general, and the best topics would then be discussed BY the panel in THEIR open forum for all to see. But this would need OPPOSING views on issues, and not everyone from the SAME clique, or from the SAME company or product lines. This would allow the readers to see all sides of issues, not just (sorry to say it) propaganda posts designed to sell a particular brand of equipment, forward a specific viewpoint, or whatever.

These things have worked for MANY reasons, for many industries. It allows for a fare and balanced opinion on topics. It also allows a “Devil’s Advocate” for expanding opinions and ideas. Often times companies hire people to do just that, be the wet blanket at the party, because many times those too close to the issue get tunnel vision.

This would also allow a more “fight club” feel to the idea. The brightest (or those deemed as the representatives of them) dooking it out over various issues. But in a controlled manner. Ahhhhhh Now THAT would be worth seeing! As it is, there seems to be far too many people, and too many on the same side or with the same views. It is like having a royal rumble with two teams, one having 30 people and the other having 2. First off, it gets too confusing (or in the case of the posts, too many just agreeing or restating what others said), and second, where is the fight? LOL

I hope I did not offend anyone. This was not my intention. But as it currently stands, nothing that is being done could not be done in open forums with just more individualized topic areas, and a bit of control. It seems that the ONLY thing happening is a rift being created. Walks like a duck, talks like a duck, must be a duck. Currently it looks like a self-governing clique, acts like a self-governing clique, and responds like a self governing clique… but its members still want to say it isn’t.

[a person]

i say keep it! i think it is a really good idea, and it is doing ok. but i really would like more topics in there. all very interesting.

For all those people complaining, please stop. So what if you didnt make it? its not the end of the world.

I would like to see some other forums too if you wouldnt mind the main forum is getting crowded. it will give people more to read if you get greater amount of forums pertaining to the subjectt hey want to post on.

EDIT:Keep it!!!!

[This message has been edited by a person (edited 07-20-2001).]

[-§on-]

Keep it I just want to get in it thats all.

[gam-e]

i like it alot personally. I also think that its a good idea to make mirror posts like mycroft (i don't remember the name well so if i screwed up forgive me) said. TK, like you said earlier this is very new and you are surprised about all of the negative posts. That is prolly because this thing is so new and with time all of the whining a bickering will die down about FC and all will go back to normal. Its just temporary. So keep it longer and give it a shot. =)

[shartley]

LOL This is SO funny. Best case of “I want to know what you think, just don’t say anything I don’t want to hear.” LOL

Why is it that the majority of those who DON’T like it, have valid reasons, and actually MAKE good posts stating so… but the majority of those who DO want it say things like:

“That is prolly because this thing is so new and with time all of the whining a bickering will die down about FC and all will go back to normal. Its just temporary. So keep it longer and give it a shot.”

Or

“Keep it I just want to get in it thats all.”

Or

“For all those people complaining, please stop. So what if you didnt make it? its not the end of the world.”

LOL I could go on and on…….

This has been the best entertainment I have had in weeks. No matter how rational an argument is, it is brushed aside. We care what you think….. LOL It is like making up your mind before asking “Would you like fish or chicken?” No matter what anyone says, they will still get fish… and it will stink just as bad. This of course does not matter to those who have their noses so far up the chef’s rear that they could not smell fish anyway (but which is actually worse? LOL).

Ooops, did I get a bit sarcastic with that one? LOL No offense was intended to any person in particular, I just thought I had the same right to speak my mind as those who oppose my point of view. Remember, I am NOT upset, and I am NOT attacking anyone. Got a shoe? Try it on. http://www.automags.org/ubb/cool.gif

[Cardinal_Biggles]

I for one have noticed in the past few days an increase of on-topic posts and posts that are just plain interesting in the main forum, and I think it's a result of the posts in the FC getting other people's minds in gear. I think so far, the forums have benefitted from FC except for the discussions of it's continued existence peppering the board. Let's give it a few weeks, then vote. Whatever happens, happens. http://www.automags.org/ubb/smile.gif

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"I saw the heads in your room, then you pinned them on my [Richard]!"
- Eight Heads In A Duffel Bag

[gmag]

I believe that the Fight Club itself is a good idea....BUT the way you chose the members was insulting and wrong. It was simply a nomination based entry. I believe the title to that post was "Fight Club tryouts", yet they weren't tryouts at all. It was a popularity contest with every member recommending this guy and that guy. There was no substantial evidence as to why a certain person made it in or not. People like Jerky who have an extreme amount of experience and knowledge to the sport of paintball deserve to be in the club. Yet he is not, and many others are not. Some people might shrug it off and not feel the same way I feel, but I am very offended by the way these members were picked. If no changes are made in the following weeks then I will be voting to exile this forum.

[hitmanng]

<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Wild_Osiris:
The only thing is I think u missed the whole point of my post. Rather than say, "oh ya man I agree", or a "nah the fight club is sufficient traffic director" ,you said, (with ur connotations sounding very sarcastic)The forum already has that, option, Wild god of the dead. (was wild god of the dead necessary?) I know Osiris is an eyptian god of the under world. (supposably I am suppose to have a beautiful wife called Isis, but I don't,)

Next time you reply to a forumers post, do us all a favor,at least comment on the bulk of the post. Take note that most posts that I write a page for aren't as shallow as one would think.
</font>

Wild Osiris,
I am sorry if I offended you in some way with my post. It was not ment to be sarcastic in any way. I saw someone I thought I could help so I posted what i saw as potential help.

I did not respond to the rest of your post because I am frankly tired of talking about the fight club. It is Tom's idea and I will see it through until Tom desides to change it. He will change it just as much based on your post as comment that I would make. If you want to know what I think read some of my other posts on the subject. Remember I was the guy that started the alternatives post.

The God of the dead thing was was simply because I wanted you to know some of us knew were your login came from. I have been fastinated with the Egyptian book of the dead for many years and have used the name Osiris for logins and such in the past. If was not ment to offend.

I never said or infered that your posts are shallow. I don't recall anyone ever saying that but maybe someone else has. I personally have posted much worse stuff myself.

I am truely sorry if I offended you in any way. I was only trying to be helpful.

Hitmanng

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"I would rather hit once than miss 140 times."

[ShinyGuy]

Just a quick note. Mykroft, you said I should just post in the main forum in the parallel thread. The issue here is that while there is much more noise in the main forum post than in the parallel Fight Club thread there is still useful information here. I would much rather skip over the noise in one thread than have to read two separate threads to get the whole conversation. We also lose the statement/response format since (short of looking at the timestamp) we have no way to know who is responding to what.

[automagkid]

in theory, it is a grea idea, kinda like comunisim. but we all know what happens in comunisism. it is great, but many will bite each other necks off, just to be in this "high society". And, further more even though topics of "consentraded knowledge" are shared only by an elite few, people still have the freedom to read and apply input in the main forum, thus not filtering the intelligent/off topic discussion in the main forum. My suggestion is to create an off topic forum, where everyone, young and old, smart and stupid, boy and girl, can post topics non related to paintball and or about nothing at all http://www.automags.org/ubb/wink.gif. ive vented thanx.

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"AND THATS ALL I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT." Forest Gump


"to have the edge is not to have the technology, but the experience"
automag classic s\f with polished boddy & 12 in j&j brass barrel, kapp forgrip & dz2 drop forward. www.geocities.com/automagkid1 (http://www.geocities.com/automagkid1)

[Flamebo]

I still think it's a good idea. Sooner or later we were going to want a section for the ideas of members who have a good idea of what's going on and any tips they have for other players, and it simplifies everything to do it all as a forum. I vote to keep it.