View Full Version : Mechanical gun comeback?
nerobro
07-12-2003, 03:56 AM
Well, the ULE trigger is coming. I wonder if X-ball and it's demand on reliablity, and *hopefully* tightening restrictions on electronic triggers will bring back a resurgance in mechancial guns.
It seems people have forgotten that cockers can be made with buttery smooth and superlight trigers. though this would re-introduce the idea of shortstroking.
The matrix was designed as a mechanical gun. It could easily be sold as one if the market demanded it. (heck it would be cheaper to produce even...) though it could be shortstroked.
The new omen, PMI has been toying with the idea of releasing it as a mechanical gun as well. This setup could not be shortstroked. (that's the advantage of sear trippers, once you trip the sear, the gun takes care of the rest... just like an electrogun)
The rainmaker could be done as a purely mechanical design too. Though this could be shortstroked as well.....
mechanical guns won't give boys their 20bps, but they will give them rock solid reliablity, or at worst "soft" failures. Like a mag's powertube, on/off top or bottom o-ring going. or the o-ring in a cocker (or matrix in this case) o-ring. Instead of the gun just going "dead" because of a sticky solinoid, or some other crazy problem.
Has anyone thought about what it would take to make a mechanical frame for one of the electronics dependant guns? (I have... many differnet possiablitys down that road)
Long live the Mechanical gun???
FalconGuy016
07-12-2003, 09:59 AM
I think most electro guns are very reliable
cphilip
07-12-2003, 11:22 AM
I am hearing ya Nero....Bro... heh...
I am playing with my RTP more and more now. I can see the ability and affordability to have two mechanical markers for the cost of one Electro. And the ablility to set each one up kinda different for different positions but also being able to pull a Valve assembly out and slap it into the other marker and go on if a problem develops. Giveing you time to then go back and fix that other one later when you can. I find myself being able to do all I need to do with that RTP. I mean three quick shots is all anyone needs. I hear ya. I am thinking more and more along these lines in my "kit" as Simon would say. I mean two RTP's = 1400. One X Mag = 1400.... get it?
Long live mechanicals!
Wait . . . don't the majority of people on mechanical guns? If so why do they have to make a "come back" I agree with you totally on the mechanical thing. I love AGD and the E/Xmags but I try to make my guns use the least amount of electronics. Heck, there should be mechanical hoppers :D
RRfireblade
07-12-2003, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by ß.C.
Heck, there should be mechanical hoppers :D
nerobro
07-12-2003, 02:37 PM
Allthough it takes us off subject, we do have air powered hoppers. the hoppers on A5's. The classic RT had that special rail to support air powered accessorys as well.
Back to the original subject though. I know newer players play with mechanaical guns. I was refering to the tourny circut. I've seen LOTS of electrical related issues with guns ;-) Stuff my mag or cocker just never does.
It would be nice to see more mechanical guns out there.
Python14
07-12-2003, 04:57 PM
My entire team shoots electros, except for me, I shoot a classic mag with chucks freak and no-rise. Otherwise, it's two lasoyas and a mag.
I don't really think it's a come back though, because more and more teams are shooting electros predominately....I mean, the only NXL team that features mechs are aftershock, and they only have a few.
Lohman446
07-12-2003, 05:16 PM
How about it - an air powered hopper for mags - I would buy one just to be rid of all batteries on my gun. Of course, Im sure someone at AGD looks at my "If... then... I would buy" rate and realized I have not bought anything knew - ever except my ULE body that RogueFactor was nice enough to sell it.
Miscue
07-12-2003, 05:29 PM
I suck on a mechanical trigger. If I can shoot comfortably with the ULE Trigger... I'll put away my EMag.
Originally posted by FalconGuy016
I think most electro guns are very reliable
mines not. and it pisses me off.
I am probally as fast on a mech mag than on an electro.... thus why I am building a ,mech mag, duh.
Originally posted by Lohman446
How about it - an air powered hopper for mags - I would buy one just to be rid of all batteries on my gun. Of course, Im sure someone at AGD looks at my "If... then... I would buy" rate and realized I have not bought anything knew - ever except my ULE body that RogueFactor was nice enough to sell it.
Would it be possible to make a hopper work on cranks? It would probably chop without a sensor, but it might work if some genius got thinking. The A5 thing is interesteding but I have never shot it so I would have no clue how good it actually is.
Automaggin2
07-12-2003, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by nerobro
....cockers can be made with buttery smooth and superlight trigers. though this would re-introduce the idea of shortstroking.
Not true. You can make a autococker trigger superlight and short. Some people claim they can get a cocker down to 1 mm pull, but i have personally seen 1.5 mm trigger pull on a cocker.
Automaggin2
07-12-2003, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by ß.C.
Heck, there should be mechanical hoppers :D
Halo Rip Drive?
_Spork_1
07-13-2003, 12:02 AM
no.electros will remain the king, electros don't break down unless you're an idiot and blow the 'noid but that's your fault and it's just like if you screw up a cocker.
Electros will stay on top.
Adrenaline0520
07-13-2003, 12:03 AM
But you know AGD already solved that problem with having a mechanical gun and electro in one with the E-mag and X-mag, they can go pure mechanical and be Retro, just jack up your tank pressure to the maximum tourny legal limit and watch you reactive trigger rip, so why put away your E-mags?
nerobro
07-13-2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by Automaggin2
Not true. You can make a autococker trigger superlight and short. Some people claim they can get a cocker down to 1 mm pull, but i have personally seen 1.5 mm trigger pull on a cocker.
My statment is still true even if your trigger pull is super short. Actually given the lengthof the trigger pull you're advertizing you'd probally be incresing the chance of short stroking because you're not letting the 3 way open to vent the ram. :-) I don't care how short it is, it can be short stroked. (time is a factor as well as length) A longer trigger, when properly timed, is less likely to be short stroked because you end up with longer bolt open time.
or if you need another example. A properly setup rainmaker trigger can be .3mm or less. if you have a 'no computer" setup in a rainmaker you can still short stroke it by not pullin the trigger LONG enough. Same for your 1mm or 1.5mm trigger.
Clockwork_Orange
07-13-2003, 12:18 PM
Adrenaline0520:
But you know AGD already solved that problem with having a mechanical gun and electro in one with the E-mag and X-mag, they can go pure mechanical and be Retro, just jack up your tank pressure to the maximum tourny legal limit and watch you reactive trigger rip, so why put away your E-mags?
THANK YOU!!!!!!!;)
GoatBoy
07-13-2003, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by nerobro
Well, the ULE trigger is coming. I wonder if X-ball and it's demand on reliablity, and *hopefully* tightening restrictions on electronic triggers will bring back a resurgance in mechancial guns.
It seems people have forgotten that cockers can be made with buttery smooth and superlight trigers. though this would re-introduce the idea of shortstroking.
The matrix was designed as a mechanical gun. It could easily be sold as one if the market demanded it. (heck it would be cheaper to produce even...) though it could be shortstroked.
The new omen, PMI has been toying with the idea of releasing it as a mechanical gun as well. This setup could not be shortstroked. (that's the advantage of sear trippers, once you trip the sear, the gun takes care of the rest... just like an electrogun)
The rainmaker could be done as a purely mechanical design too. Though this could be shortstroked as well.....
mechanical guns won't give boys their 20bps, but they will give them rock solid reliablity, or at worst "soft" failures. Like a mag's powertube, on/off top or bottom o-ring going. or the o-ring in a cocker (or matrix in this case) o-ring. Instead of the gun just going "dead" because of a sticky solinoid, or some other crazy problem.
Has anyone thought about what it would take to make a mechanical frame for one of the electronics dependant guns? (I have... many differnet possiablitys down that road)
Long live the Mechanical gun???
Are you talking about retro-fitting an electronic marker to go completely mechanical?
If so, I figure you're going to have to have to basically turn them back into cockers -- at least for the ram based markers. At a minimum, you'd have to manually actuate the 4-way valve again. Perhaps the best case scenario for this is that, unlike a cocker, you ONLY actuate the 3-way on a trigger pull, and nothing else (i.e. tripping the sear on a hammer wouldn't be a direct action of the trigger). Say, sort of like when you put an air-assist on a pump gun, and you hold the trigger down and just hit the three-way and that action alone basically fires your gun.
We have kicked around the idea of having a mechanical gun only tourney, now that would be something! (fun too)
AGD
RRfireblade
07-13-2003, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by nerobro
My statment is still true even if your trigger pull is super short. Actually given the lengthof the trigger pull you're advertizing you'd probally be incresing the chance of short stroking because you're not letting the 3 way open to vent the ram. :-) I don't care how short it is, it can be short stroked. (time is a factor as well as length) A longer trigger, when properly timed, is less likely to be short stroked because you end up with longer bolt open time.
No,
I've got ~1mm on a cocker and it's definatly harder to short stroke than with a longer pull even on a slider.(which is what I use now)
Of course any mech cocker or mag for that matter CAN be short stroked if you try.
Jay.
Clockwork_Orange
07-13-2003, 02:32 PM
AGD:
We have kicked around the idea of having a mechanical gun only tourney, now that would be something! (fun too)
Yes, that would be fun! Sounds like a good idea, BUT...that means emag/xmag owners could still use there markers...correct?
Sure you could use emags, just take off the battery!
Here is another idea, give double points for kills, hangs etc to pump teams and triple points to all stock class teams.
Should make for a lot of interesting bunker moves.
AGD
Originally posted by AGD
Sure you could use emags, just take off the battery!
Here is another idea, give double points for kills, hangs etc to pump teams and triple points to all stock class teams.
Should make for a lot of interesting bunker moves.
AGD
sweet! hmmm... maybe for the next megameet?
jb
nerobro
07-13-2003, 03:13 PM
Mechanical gun only tourny... :-) I could so do that. It would give airsmiths a reason to re-learn how to setup cockers.... And give the ULE trigger a chance to really shine.
I'm liking the "pump advantage"
then again, i'm a little biased ;-)
Question is, who would host such an event? And would it be a tourny where money is made on paint, or entry fees? (I'm much more fond of tournys that can live on cheap paint even if the entry is steeper... )
Sadly i'm playing this IAO with a semi... probally a good thing given the fact I smashed my thumb is a bad way yesterday changing my brakes :-/
folder504
07-13-2003, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by ß.C.
Would it be possible to make a hopper work on cranks? It would probably chop without a sensor, but it might work if some genius got thinking. The A5 thing is interesteding but I have never shot it so I would have no clue how good it actually is.
The Tippmann Factory F/A's hopper was a crank version of the Cyclone.
And that would bring a LOT more people to stock class if you got 3x the points for it.
Clockwork_Orange
07-13-2003, 07:31 PM
AGD:
Sure you could use emags, just take off the battery!Here is another idea, give double points for kills, hangs etc to pump teams and triple points to all stock class teams. Should make for a lot of interesting bunker moves.
Very nice!!! I'm looking forward to seeing this happen. Gotta love mags! What other marker can claim the best of both worlds? huh? Yeah...that's what I thought;)
I think the Ule trigger just might make non mag owners extremely jealous and envyous, I hope the refs are ready to tolerate the complaints:D
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