Angel Speed Info I need some

[AGD]

Speed owners,

I recieved this email from WDP about their new low pressure mods and I am confused. I have not seen the Speed so I am not exactly sure if it works the same or not.

First off the gun is reported to work at the low pressure of 350 psi according to the add. Our tests on the Dark Angel showed it at 375, was ours just a low one or what?

Second in the old Angels the volumizer in the front was the air chamber for the reg that cycled the parts, not the air chamber for the ball, has this changed?

Thanks for the info,

AGD

[auX]

Mr. Kaye, I'm confused about your first question. You said that you were confused about the operating pressure about the speed? Well to my knowledge, the speed operates at 350psi out of the box. Later on this year (hopefully within a few months), WDP will be releasing their own set of volumizers that will bring the operating pressure down to as low as a Matrix (around 150psi or so). And no, WDP has not changed the location as to where the volumizers go. I hope this helps.

[AGD]

oops forgot the add here it is.

[AGD]

Aux,

The thing I dont understand is that if the design is the same, the air in the volumizer does not go out behind the ball, it actuates the piston.

AGD

[SkeL]

The angel speed operates at 340psi out of the box, and has the chance to go even lower with a volumizer. WDP sells 3 different sizes, and there is already a new company that is selling large ones that match your marker's color, that allow you to dip into the 180psi range. This is the lowest you can go. Since the battery is smaller, and the larger gas gallery on the left chamber is now where the LPR is, a volumizer would work on both sides. There isn't enough information as of yet to determine which side will work best. The pro's that do have the large WDP volumizers but it on the "cycling parts" side of the marker.

Edit: You posted the pic before I posted :D

[auX]

Oh geeze, I forgot they moved the LPR. What kind of Speed owner am I?:rolleyes:

[AGD]

So your saying that as you aim the gun, the tube on the right side has the hammer valve and the 350 psi chamber that will shoot the ball and on the left is the lpr and battery correct?

If so how can putting a volumizer on the left side reduce the pressure on the right?

AGD

[SkeL]

Good question, but they are obviously connected by an air passage.

Good info is hard to find because the volumizers are so hard to get right now. WDP has been putting them off for weeks, and they only real ones available are the DIRT ones I spoke about before. I would provide more specific info but no one has any.

[Prairie]

Hm, so they are selling volumizer's (phallic looking ones @ that) like barrel kits now..that's kind of neat.

[nerobro]

IIRC, they moved the LPR to the other side of the gun. they are using a battery that's only half the size of previous angels so it's no longer taking up the whole tube.

This leaves a HUGE valve chamber, something on the order of what youll see in an AKA gun. And because there's no LPR in front of the valve chamber you can use LPC's on there ;-)

[BlackVCG]

Tom, I'll gladly go over to WDP at IAO and buy you a Speed and we can mess around with it. :)

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

Related to this question, the expansion chambers, and definitely directed at Speed owners who really know their guns, is if you are able to get the Angel Speed to effectively cycle at these low pressures indicated in the ad, would this be enough where if a paintball is halfway in the breech when the trigger is pulled and the bolt moves forward, would it be soft enough that the ball would be pinched or would it still cause the ball to be chopped or damaged enough to break in the gun? I am not highly familiar with Angels and Matrices (loving the Lvl 10 ULE Mag for now) and was interested in knowing if using these mods would be enough to replicate the effect of the Lvl 10 or if it is more gimmicky than anything. What other benefits does such a low operating pressure have in an Angel that makes these mods worth getting?

[BlackVCG]

Not sure how much force is behind the ram (bolt face) right now, but any reduction in cycle pressure will put less force on the bolt face. The trade off with running low cycle pressures is cycle rate of the ram, which directly affects your ROF. Lower firing pressure allows the gun to use more of the air in the tank instead of dropping off with 800+ psi left in the tank, like many guns.

[Animal Mother]

I bet The Angel Guy can answer a lot of theses questions.

Yeah, I do agree with the look of those volumizers.. damn.. they need to do something with those, LOL

[SkeL]

Originally posted by QUINCYMASSGUY
Related to this question, the expansion chambers, and definitely directed at Speed owners who really know their guns, is if you are able to get the Angel Speed to effectively cycle at these low pressures indicated in the ad, would this be enough where if a paintball is halfway in the breech when the trigger is pulled and the bolt moves forward, would it be soft enough that the ball would be pinched or would it still cause the ball to be chopped or damaged enough to break in the gun? I am not highly familiar with Angels and Matrices (loving the Lvl 10 ULE Mag for now) and was interested in knowing if using these mods would be enough to replicate the effect of the Lvl 10 or if it is more gimmicky than anything. What other benefits does such a low operating pressure have in an Angel that makes these mods worth getting?

Yes, you can make the Speed Pinch, but naturally you will have horrid efficiency.
As BlackVCG said, an object of the same mass moving at a lower speed will naturally cycle slower.
I'm happy with my speeds 82psi ram/lpr pressure. That's the standard operating PSI. Sensi keeps my marker from chopping, so there's no need for me to pinch.

[MarkM]

The main problem for giving a "good" answer is that the volumiser equipped Speed's are currently very few and far between. But to answer AGD the redesign in relation to the layout has allowed the addition of volumisers on the correct side of the valve to actually lower the operating pressure, in the IR3, LCD and LED this wasn't the case so volumisers were purely cosmetic. The nearest parallel to a 'mag would be the "Black Box" but then you know what that was really for ;) I do like the idea that Tom is openminded enough (and publically saying so) to see how others do things which is always good :cool:

[Doc Nickel]

Originally posted by AGD
First off the gun is reported to work at the low pressure of 350 psi according to the add. Our tests on the Dark Angel showed it at 375, was ours just a low one or what?

Well, technically the original LED and LCD Angels wanted to see around 400 to 500 psi for a good shot. "LP" became such a marketing buzzword that people began tuning for "low pressure" which in most cases was rarely below 275. Stock, you could get it to 350 psi or so.

So the advertising really should be "slightly lower than stock", but of course there's no Truth In Advertising law going on here, is there? :D


Second in the old Angels the volumizer in the front was the air chamber for the reg that cycled the parts, not the air chamber for the ball, has this changed?

Yes. In the original LED and LCDs, the "Volumizer" simply added additional space to the LPR- in other words, it was like putting a "Mitey Max" LP chamber on your Rock reg.

In the Speed, WDP cut down the battery pack and moved the LPR to the leftside tube. The entire righthand tube is now all valve chamber forward of the cup seal.

Naturally, everyone's going for the bigger and bigger valve chambers (LPCs as pictured above) but nobody's realizing that the so-called "low pressure" gains the shooter exactly nothing in range, accuracy or performance, and will be mildly to extremely detrimental to gas efficiency.

But, reality be damned- there's gadgets to sell! :D

Doc.

[TAG]

Tom,
Not sure if this will help but I just scanned the thread while driving to IAO.

Since the valve is on a side by itself it is now possible to create a larger air space by adding the various low pressure chanbers.

This is pressure that actually sends the ball on its way out of the barrel. The needed LPR pressure has also been reduced to the 82psi range. We have still gotten excellent results with it as low as 4.5 bar. For those of you that do not know the LPR is what controls the movelent of the RAM and this also moves the bolt to chamber a ball.

I had a stock fly2 that shot 300fps with only 330psi going into the gun but this was unusual. We noticed that the standard pressure was around 375+ on most guns to get the needed velocity.

With the speed and a 4.5inch volumizer we have gotten our actual firing pressure down to 175psi with a velocity in the 290's. This was with an LPR pressure of 4.5bar.

Most stock speeds we have tuned before shipping have had an operating pressure below the 350 rated from WDP.

I do have my speed with me so if ya like I can drop it off at your booth ;)

[JT2002]

how did u read the thread while in car going to IAO?

[Animal Mother]

Originally posted by JT2002
how did u read the thread while in car going to IAO?

Yeah... they're called "Notebooks" or "Laptops", you can also link them with mobile phones to dial out to an internet connection. Bluetooth makes this even easier since you don't even have to conect the phone to the notebook computer.

Hey... did ya know they made a paintball gun with electronics in it?

:)

[JT2002]

yah lol, i knwo what a laptop is, have one myself, just didnt know u could dial em up to the i net via cell phone. good way to kill ur minutes :D

[Catch22]

I think Mac's have sometithing called a bluetooth network. But that only exists in cafe's and airports as far as i know.

[Animal Mother]

Bluetooth is a IBM technology, it is a short range plug and play wireless connection, think of it as wireless USB. new phones are bluetooth enabled so you can sync your address book, calander etc. and connect your phone to your notebook and use the phone to dial out and connect to the internet. WiFi, AirPort and.. I think there is another name for it all are all fancy names for 802.11b/a and now g which is a wireless networking standard. think of it as.. wireless ethernet. That is the technology you can roam within range of a base station and surf the net, Starbucks and Airports are starting to have base stations in theses locations. I have actually done "War Driving" where you drive around with a high powered antenna and "look" for open networks :)

[JT2002]

lol, how does the "war driving" work out? i have wireless i net, he!! thats what im using to access this forum on my desktop. and i love being able to go hang outside on teh deck and sit on the laptop playin yahoo pool or AO or somethin :D

[Matt_mg]

another war driver? use an empty pringles box on your antena!
I heard it boosts reception by 10%, or at least you'll have eaten good chips and got funny looks while driving around.

[minimag187]

Originally posted by auX
will bring the operating pressure down to as low as a Matrix (around 150psi or so). And no, WDP has not changed the location as to where the volumizers go. I hope this helps.

Actually the matrix with the LPR on the front operates at about 90-110

[Doc Nickel]

Originally posted by TheAngelGuy.com
With the speed and a 4.5inch volumizer we have gotten our actual firing pressure down to 175psi with a velocity in the 290's. This was with an LPR pressure of 4.5bar.

At the risk of public heresy, I have to ask: Just what was, or is, the benefit?

Did you see any improvement in accuracy, or efficiency, or consistency?

Or was it "It's Low Pressure 'cause Low Pressure is cool"?

Doc.

[minimag187]

Im guessing its better for more brittle paint, but what would I know.

[Animal Mother]

Originally posted by JT2002
lol, how does the "war driving" work out?

Pretty well actually, A LOT of open networks in the bay San Francisco area. Amazing how many people haven't changed their default network settings and passwords, hehehe :) We didn't do anything bad.. just something to keep a couple of geeks on a Friday night entertained.

The pingles cans work well, but it's just a form. The lining of the "can" doesn't do much, it is just a good form for an antenna. You get better results with coffee cans. I just used PVC pipes, washers and some copper wiring and pipes. I'd love to get a notebook and setup a wireless network, but I have 3 desktops (one of them a mac G4 Cube) and a LAN. I would get a notebook.. but you see theres this Angel Speed I just got.. hehehehe

Only as a backup to my ULE E-Mag :)

[auX]

Originally posted by minimag187


Actually the matrix with the LPR on the front operates at about 90-110

Whatever, I'm not a Matrix user. Sorry for not knowing.:rolleyes:

[cphilip]

Well since we got off subject Blue Tooth is just a particular radio band use standard that is being promoted by Bluetooth SIG. And it's true that Macs have been Blue tooth enabled out of the box for a while they only were one of the minor partners in its development as a standard.

Here is a compilation of the FAQ's from Bluetooth SIG's site.

What is the Bluetooth SIG?

The Bluetooth Special Interest Group (SIG), a trade association comprised of leaders in the telecommunications, computing, and network industries, is driving development of the technology and bringing it to market. The Bluetooth SIG promoters include 3Com, Agere, Ericsson, IBM, Intel, Microsoft, Motorola, Nokia and Toshiba, and hundreds of Associate and Adopter member companies.


Does the Bluetooth SIG have employees?

While Bluetooth SIG, Inc. has several employees including a General Manager; the Bluetooth SIG is primarily a volunteer organization run by employees from the member companies. They support a number of working groups that focus on specific areas, such as engineering, qualification and marketing. Today these same companies are also working to build and qualify products as members of the Group. Interoperability is maintained by strict qualification procedures and regular testing of products with each other at "Unplugfest" events.


Can anyone join? Are there restrictions/requirements? What are they?

Any incorporated company willing to sign the Bluetooth SIG Membership Agreement can join as an Adopter company. Membership is free when joining as an Adopter. Additionally, a company can upgrade their membership for a nominal fee that provides additional benefits including early access to specifications and as well as a venue for their input during development of the Bluetooth wireless specification. You can join the Bluetooth SIG by becoming a member.


What are the advantages of joining the Bluetooth SIG?

Member companies qualify for a royalty-free license to build products based on Bluetooth wireless technology, as well as access to the Bluetooth specification and intensive training seminars such as the Bluetooth Developer Conferences (conference fee required). Additionally, the Bluetooth SIG provides a forum for vendor interaction and co-development opportunities.


What is the mission of the Bluetooth SIG?

Early in 2001, the Bluetooth SIG Board of Directors adopted the following mission statement for the association:

"To develop, publish and promote the preferred short-range wireless specification for connecting mobile products, and to administer a qualification program that fosters interoperability for a positive user experience.

What are some of the technical details of the Bluetooth wireless specification?

The Bluetooth wireless specification defines a low-power, low-cost technology that provides a standardized platform for eliminating cables between mobile devices and facilitating connections between products.

Unlike many other wireless standards, the Bluetooth wireless specification includes both link layer and application layer definitions for product developers. Radios that comply with the Bluetooth wireless specification operate in the unlicensed, 2.4 GHz radio spectrum ensuring communication compatibility worldwide. These radios use a spread spectrum, frequency hopping, full-duplex signal at up to 1600 hops/sec. The signal hops among 79 frequencies at 1 MHz intervals to give a high degree of interference immunity.

While point-to-point connections are supported, the specification allows up to seven simultaneous connections to be established and maintained by a single radio.


What is the latest version of the Bluetooth specification?

In early 2001, the Bluetooth SIG Board of Directors adopted the current version of the Bluetooth specification. Version 1.1 is the third generation of the specification. The Bluetooth specification process allows member companies to enhance and extend the technology into new usage models and markets. This is a continuing effort supported by our Promoter and Associate members. These new enhancements are typically released as a Profile. In 2001 we have released several new profiles for printing, imaging, automotive and networking markets.


Where can I find the Bluetooth specification?

The Bluetooth specification can be downloaded at
http://www.bluetooth.com/dev/specifications.asp. If you plan to develop and sell products that incorporate the specification you must sign the Bluetooth Adopter Agreement.


How is the Bluetooth technology licensed? Are there patents or licenses involved? Is this technology royalty-free?

While there are many patents on different parts of the technology, the Bluetooth wireless specification plans to remain a royalty-free specification. As a member of the Bluetooth SIG, you will need to execute several agreements to enjoy these benefits.

[JAM]

nice novel cphil. ;)

but in an effort to get the thread back on track...
WDP has reorganized the internals on the speed, so the addition of a volumizer to the right side (as you aim) directly affects the valve chamber size and so firing pressure. I added one to this size and was able to lower the pressure 50 or so psi- I didn't gain range or accuracy or consostancy or anything, but I did experience less barrel breaks with crappy paint. other than that, it looks cool.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by JAM
nice novel cphil. ;)

hehe...yea what was the subject anyway? :eek:

[SkeL]

Please don't hijack this thread anymore Cphi. :rolleyes:

[Catch22]

So the pressure can be lowered on the Speed by adding volume right? on either side?

[MarkM]

Originally posted by Catch22
So the pressure can be lowered on the Speed by adding volume right? on either side?

No just the right hand side as you point the marker away from you. Just like all the other volumisers on LCD's LED's and IR3's but on a Speed it actually works.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by SkeL
Please don't hijack this thread anymore Cphi. :rolleyes:

Hey Dork, it wasn't me who started the hijack... I just finished it off! :D

[Toxic Dave]

Actually the Matrix LPRs are usually somewhere between 50-70 PSI, for some ungodly reason people started quoting the 90-110 # a couple years ago without ever putting a gauge on one..then one day we did! Now we know, and know is half the battle.

dave

[mookie1991]

First off I apologize for mentioning I was in my car....that seems to have started another thread within the thread.

Secondly,
We have noticed that the gun is even more forgiving with extra brittle paint when using the lower pressures. No extensive performance tests have been done but we plan on spending more time with the gun after IAO. Since the gun was released we have used them stock so this is the first chance we have been able to test the lower pressure use.