Time for a new gun.

[$tevo]

ok guys, i know your gonna say whatever feels right to me. but i dont wanna hear that, i wanna know what you PREFER. I dont wanna go over 1100 right now, and i was lookin at the Orracle, Matrix, Bob Long 2002 or GZ, or an Angel IRC C&C. They are all around the same price(except orracle, bout 150-200 cheaper). I wanna know what gun you think would be better for a middle/foward player. just give me opinions guys

[SIGSays]

BYOM

build your own mag

[Ov3rmind]

Angel Speed, Viking/Excal, E-Mag

Those are the only electros I'd own.

[$tevo]

sig i have a 68 classic right now, i love it, im probly puttin a ule body on it soon, its goin to be my backup, its the most reliable backup you can ever have! theres never anything goin wrong with my mag. but i want an electro, or an oracle then when i get used to cockers i will put the eclipse frame on it. but the ir3 c&c is only around 995, and thats pretty cheap, i am leanin towards that or the oracle right now

[$tevo]

overmind, why speed over the ir3? if i was to get a mag, it would be an xmag, but those are 1300 and i cant really afford those right now

[68magOwner]

get a viking or excal, they rule

[$tevo]

68mag owner, how do the vikings and excal rule? what make them better then the other guns on the list?

[ReTro Boy]

Just my thoughts...I love my C&C iR3. Great gun.

[Nick O time]

just like the title says

[Steelrat]

Vikings:

-Operate at low pressure. Can be set to pinch balls.
-Gas efficiency, on the order of 2000 rounds with a 68/4500.
-Warranty: lifetime on their mechanical parts, and WAS has a lifetime on their board.
-WAS board standard, need I say more
-Eyes a $20 upgrade
-No other upgrades necessary, comes with a great reg, valve, and bolt. In fact, I NEVER hear of anyone replacing those parts.
-Type 3 anno finish, VERY durable.
-Extremely reliable.
-VERY high ROF.
-Cocker barrel threading
-Minimal maintenance necessary i.e. 2 drops of oil in the ASA and lube the bolt after playing. Thats it.
-Very few people shoot them, making them rare and interesting.

[Ov3rmind]

Originally posted by $tevo
overmind, why speed over the ir3?
-Lighter
-Faster
-Trigger is easier to adjust
-Sensi > COPS
-No breech O-ring to lose
-Better designed (more consistant) Minireg
-Volumizers can actually lower it's operating pressure due to rearranged internals, unlike past Angels

[CrazyLad]

Go for the GZ Timmy!

[SlipknotX556]

No dont go for the GZ, you will hate yourself. It will become a pain when you want to set your dwell and debounce, you CANT because you dont have an LCD screen. Both the GZ and the 2k2 are the same price new, go for the 2k2, it will be easier on you.

[$tevo]

whats the difference between the 02 timmy and the GZ timmy? what one is overall better? and this will be my first electro, is it worth it spendin 900 right off the bat or should i go for the matrix and upgrade it as i go? and where would i find the IGC Vert Frame for the matrix? i cant find one anywhere

thx.
-$tevo

[rehme]

i know this is not one of the choices but.......i would say a vapor bushy

fast out shot my egg2
efficent 1100 shots off a 68/30
wont chop with the sp mod
can get the eyes but dont need it 'cause sp mod

[$tevo]

ill look into it. right now im really lookin into the matrix, or even a rat imp, just bout the same price

[$tevo]

what one would u guys recomend? the rat imp or a Trix? the imp looks 1000x better but the trix could eventually look just as hot. i wanna know what one would be overall better performance? and im gonna be a back/mid player. so what one would be better for that position?

[Trauma]

defiently get a matrix, those are some sweet guns and they rip hardcore, if you get one, I suggest getting a Trauma Matrix, they have great warranty from Freeflow and when the Freeflow anti-chop eyes are done, you get them for free, but if you can't afford a trauma, a LCD Matrix is another great choice and you can get one for about 850
http://www.pbsuperstore.com/gemalcdbl.html

[$tevo]

how much do the trauma matrices cost? and whats a URL to the site? thx

-$tevo

[Trauma]

Http://www.4freeflow.com and the trauma trixes cost around $1199, its alot of cash but your backed by one great company with one great gun, just ask any matrix owner how good a trauma is

[$tevo]

oh i believe you trauma..im plannin on gettin one as soon as i get the cash. and would i be able to put a sidewinder reg on it when i order it? like would they put that on instead of the other regs that they have?

[fire1811]

matrix are a maintenace gun

speed is my vote

[vIoLeNt_CaLm]

Originally posted by SIGSays
BYOM

build your own mag

i agree, build your own custom mag, or cocker, or both :)

[$tevo]

my mag is my backup. all im goin to do with my mag is put ULE. sense matrices have cocker threads i can just use my main barrel for my backup gun. and im not a fan of cockers.

[wobbles82]

If your still debating which marker I would take a Dark Viking, or in second place the Trix. The Rat Impulse just isn't my thing, ive shot the, they are nice, but a Trix has a lot of potential, and well...a Viking is an excellent marker. The Speed is a very nice choice, I love em to death, but theres something about the Viking that I would even get one (If i didnt have a mag of course! :D ). And the Viking is crazy arse efficient. The Trix will come out of the box chop-able and not very efficient, so its your choice( and even the FF one that you want with the Sidewinder, I mean whats the point of getting all that if a Viking comes stock with a Sidewinder?). Get a marker that will at one point really pWnz0rz or get a nice outta the box marker for a bit under 800. my two cents

[$tevo]

wobbles, what site is the dark viking at? and u said it cost under 800? that sounds like a pretty good deal.. but whats the warenty on it? FF is lifetime, and when the eye comes out, its a free upgrade.

[No sKiLLz]

www.darkviking.com (http://www.darkviking.com)

Probably best bang for your buck. Personally I think they are ugly and overhyped as far as claims of ROF and shots per tank and consitancy. I know I'm going to get flamed for saying all this, but it's all IMO.

Also try:

www.nyxtremematrix.com (http://www.nyxtremematrix.com)

http://homepage.mac.com/alle/

www.paintcheck.com (http:// [url) ]

http://www.thematrixcenter.com/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=24&idproduct=130

[$tevo]

i dont think its that ugly..its just as ugly lookin as the Matrices, unless u get trauma, that has trauma and FF milled into it. thats pretty hot lookin. if the vikings had viking milled into it, it would look pretty hot. or atleast some sorta thing milled into it. but i wanna know the warranties on the dark vikings!! anyone know?!?!

[Steelrat]

AKA has a LIFETIME warranty on all mechanical parts. WAS has its own lifetime warranty on the board. That leaves the solenoid, which has a manufacturer's warranty of unknown duration. Not too shabby. Beats even AGD's warranty.

[$tevo]

wow..so im kinda leanin towards the dark viking now. its about 350-400 cheaper then the trauma, good waranty and i only hear good stuff bout it. and they say all u gotta do to maintain it is lube the bolt and oil the macro goin to the sidewinder.

[Steelrat]

The "Dark Viking" is just a very slightly modified stock viking. All they do is add Dye grips and a blade trigger. Thats it. The price is good, but if they are outta stock you can look elsewhere. All vikings come stock now with the sidewinder, tornado, lightning, and WAS board.

And maintenance does soley consist of lubing the bolt and a few drops in the macro or ASA.

Heres the AKA web site www.akalmp.com/main.htm (http://) Check it out. You won't be disappointed. Just jump on the bandwagon before everyone else does ;)

[No sKiLLz]

It's my handle, isn't it? That's why no one bothers to try my links.:(

[Steelrat]

No, he tried you link and liked the Dark Viking. I just wanted to show him the main company's homepage ;)

[No sKiLLz]

That's right. Cuz the Dark Viking is better than any matrix out there.:rolleyes:

[Steelrat]

I dunno, the NYX, Ironman, and Trauma are NICE markers. But the Viking has much easier maintenance, and is much cheaper.

I chose the Viking.

[$tevo]

so is it worth gettin the dark viking? or just the regular viking sense its only slitly upgraded. does the dark viking have the same waranty as the regular viking?

[Steelrat]

Dark, casue you get the extra parts essentially free. Warranty is the same, since all the parts are purely external. Darks have a bit of a wait, though.

[Trauma]

dark viking, or trix, whatever one u pick you will be happy with, each of them have great ROF, and are efficient with air

[cockersuk14]

havent seen alot dark vikings but ive seen matrixes outshoot halos. no joke a kid i wasnt there but a think a friend might have got it on a video. and halo bs feed 22+ bps so u do the math.

[No sKiLLz]

Both are fast, but since Chicago we know Eggis X board is faster than WAS. Not that you can outshoot the WAS, but just in case your finger has an epileptic seizure on the playing field...

Regardless, I believe you get what you pay for. I would like to see the Viking viced to a bench and rapid fired at a target to see the spread pattern before I ever consider picking one up. So far, I have not seen a low pressure marker yet that can sustain a high ROF with no drop off and stay within a smaller circular pattern than a Trix.

And good luck finding someone to help you if god forbid a "maintainence free" marker should have a problem. Not many techs working on AKA's yet.

[Ov3rmind]

Come to think of it, my whole time reading about Vikings, I have NEVER once heard of drop off problems with them. It's designed rather well, and if there is any dropoff at high rates of fire, it is likely barely any (plus, in the unlikelyhood of that, the SCM would probably end up solving it).

[$tevo]

ya the dark viking has like a 5-8 week wait..whitch is alrite sense i still gotta get some more $$. freakin truck payments and vacation. i would have it if it wasnt for those!

[Spartan X]

Just save a couple more hundred and go all out on a X-mag man....

[lack of grace]

Originally posted by $tevo
68mag owner, how do the vikings and excal rule? what make them better then the other guns on the list?

Youd have to shoot one to really understand. If you get the chance, don't pass it up. ;)

[$tevo]

Originally posted by Spartan X
Just save a couple more hundred and go all out on a X-mag man....

a couple more hundred? the dark viking milled is 820. the xmag is 1300 somethin. its gonna be like 500 more.

[lack of grace]

Originally posted by Spartan X
Just save a couple more hundred and go all out on a X-mag man....

Vikings shoot better and cost less...That really wouldnt be going all out.

[$tevo]

shoot better huh?? sweet..

how do i put a pic in my sig

[Spartan X]

Shoot's better then a X-mag...Man I want what he's smoking, because it seams to be working :p

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by Ov3rmind
Come to think of it, my whole time reading about Vikings, I have NEVER once heard of drop off problems with them. It's designed rather well, and if there is any dropoff at high rates of fire, it is likely barely any (plus, in the unlikelyhood of that, the SCM would probably end up solving it).

Consistancy Somtimes on mine the consistancy isnt all that great, ...

There is a break in time on this marker. Brand new it will still perform fantastic, but after about 20 cases you will actually be able to lower the pressure on your marker. I wouldn't do this unsupervied though, try to get a techie to look at it and see if its ready.

Stock its capped at 12.9 balls per second. If you want you can get it reprogramed.

stock they are ugly

after a string of about 100 or so rounds at about 7(+/-) bps you experiance a noticable amount of drop off

the viking is great for a player that wants a tourny gun but doesnt have enough money for say a matrix or an angel or something like that...

its lacks accuracy and distance compared to the excaliber but it also lacks the extra 500 dollars.

Being used to my Matrix, the Viking has too much kick.

They have a decent trajectory and it is relativly quiet although not as quiet as say, a matrix.

the design of having the parts in sealed tubes is good, but it does limit the ability of yourself to troubleshoot.

first off, there is the break in time. Why should a marker have a break-in time. You don't see angels and Timmi's and whatnot with break-in periods

Second is the trigger. Its 3 point adjustable, right. Wrong. You have to take the freaking frame off the body to adjust it properly. I had problems with my board and had to argue with AKA for 2 weeks to get them to send me a new board.

I might buy my girlfriend this marker because she is sold on the advertising

All quotes pulled from Viking owners. And in conclusion, I would LOVE for you to substantiate your claim of the Dark Viking doing ANYTHING better than an X-mag.:rolleyes:

[lack of grace]

Originally posted by No sKiLLz

All quotes pulled from Viking owners. And in conclusion, I would LOVE for you to substantiate your claim of the Dark Viking doing ANYTHING better than an X-mag.:rolleyes:

I could go ahead and pull up a bunch of qoutes like you did for mags but I don't wanna waste my time when there is a whole forum in front of us all that proves that.

I have had a full ule mechanical mag, an emag and an xmag.

I have also had two vikings and a JMJ Featherlight Viking.

"ANYTHING" better than an xmag huh?

Where could we meet so I can show you? where are you from?

PRO's

a) they are lighter
b) waaaaaaaay more efficent
c) they pinch without modification
d) they triggers are far more customizable
e) they cost less
f) they have type 3 anno which is like superman anno
g) they are way easier to obtain
h) they have less kick

CON's

a) they don't look as good
b) they require a break in process

I request you explain the pro's and cons of an xmag vs. a viking.

Edit*** every automag zealot brags that there marker can cycle 40+ cps, but thing about it. who cares? do you shoot your marker without paint when you play or just to show off to yourself or friends? CPS means absolutely nothing.

[No sKiLLz]

I can't believe you just tried to tell me a Viking is lighter than an X-mag.

If you've owned an X-mag, than you SHOULD know the trigger is VERY adjustable with o-rings and magnets.

Kick? Last time I checked the X-mag has a bolt forward action.

Price? Get a job.

Pinch without modification? Last I heard the break in period was for the LPR. Better not try to sustain a high ROF out of the box without a Halo.

Superman anno won't help the looks of this marker. Wonder Woman anno won't help the looks of this marker. Naked stickers of Victoria Silvstedt...maybe.

Availability? I was mad at AGD too for making me wait, so I got a Matrix.

Speaking of which, I was never saying the X-mag was the way to go, I was talking about the Matrix. Is the Viking going to beat the Matrix on anything but price? (and don't say efficiency because people are getting just as many if not more shots than a Viking with the FF bolt)

Dark Viking is not a bad marker. I just don't agree with anyone telling me it's the best when it's nowhere near.

[lack of grace]

Originally posted by No sKiLLz
I can't believe you just tried to tell me a Viking is lighter than an X-mag.


**Yes i am.


If you've owned an X-mag, than you SHOULD know the trigger is VERY adjustable with o-rings and magnets.

**Yeah its nicely adjustable but unless you get special spacers you only have like 5-6 choices for the return pressure. Due to thickness of orings yadda yadda

Kick? Last time I checked the X-mag has a bolt forward action.

**Recoil.....sorry my bad

Price? Get a job.

**I do and get paid well.....job or not, 1400 is to much money for a peice of metal the cycles air.

Pinch without modification? Last I heard the break in period was for the LPR. Better not try to sustain a high ROF out of the box without a Halo.

**I pinch on a non broken in viking. the break in doesnt make a huge difference maybe 10psi.

Superman anno won't help the looks of this marker. Wonder Woman anno won't help the looks of this marker. Naked stickers of Victoria Silvstedt...maybe.

**Since when does looks effect performance

Availability? I was mad at AGD too for making me wait, so I got a Matrix.

**And you argument is?

Speaking of which, I was never saying the X-mag was the way to go, I was talking about the Matrix. Is the Viking going to beat the Matrix on anything but price? (and don't say efficiency because people are getting just as many if not more shots than a Viking with the FF bolt)

**I have a trauma...I know matrix's are nice. I was talking about vikings and you commented on my remark. I inturn answered you request.

Dark Viking is not a bad marker. I just don't agree with anyone telling me it's the best when it's nowhere near.

Never siad it was the best....just said it out performs the xmag.

[$tevo]

lack you have a trauma? does the viking compare to it at all?what gun would get more shots off a 68/4500 crossfire? and what one is more consistant u think?

[lack of grace]

Originally posted by $tevo
lack you have a trauma? does the viking compare to it at all?what gun would get more shots off a 68/4500 crossfire? and what one is more consistant u think?

equally consistant but more shots with a viking.

[$tevo]

ok cool..thx alot man

you know anything bout the new nerve marker? you know a site where i can read bout it or look at it?

[fire1811]

i was told that the nerve is not even close to being done
you will be waiting a long time if you want it

*dont bother asking who said it since i cant tell you :D

[lack of grace]

Originally posted by $tevo
ok cool..thx alot man

you know anything bout the new nerve marker? you know a site where i can read bout it or look at it?

http://pbnation.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=252

that is the only good source of info ive seen...

good luck buddy ;)

[$tevo]

do you know who is makin it fire? what company?

[fire1811]

smart parts

[wobbles82]

Hehe, more Nerve. All I can say is that even when it comes out, Smart Parts really likes to do a nifty "wait a year before its ready to go" period, so I would say ditch that idea. Nearly every product they make (As good as it may be, im not dissing them I love their products) has some kind of QC problem at first, or the boards fry, or the tolerances or low, something that just isnt right. So, onto the earlier debate. First off that is kinda off topic...who was saying that the Viking doesnt have range or something? I cannot believe that there still is range debates! If you even read the reviews for Vikings idiots will say it shoots almost as straight as a cocker but doesnt get nearly the range...how is that possible? Anyway, I think $tevo is making a good decision with a Dark Viking, they arent really that bad looking, and as for the dropoff im not so sure about that. I think Matrices are incredible markers, and maybe he should shoot both, but IMO I would take a viking also because of weight, some Trixxies can be packing. But its really in Steves (can I call ya steve? heh) hands, both are excellent quality, and smoking fast markers and either one will leave him pleased. (Specially the one that does less wallet burn) But for the X-mag debate, sure the Viking is more efficient, but having USED and SEEN numerous Vikings I can say that their is no way to say one is better than the other. The Viking is a very consistent marker, but I do not think it can match the abilities of the X-Valves ability to actually be dead on consistent in faster firing scenarios, or even its ability to prevent chopping. I have seen Vikings with eyes break balls, I do not diss them, but it is possible, an X-Mag occurence like this is very very rare. Well I wont say much more mainly because my opinion never...really matters, lol. But I think we should stop debating the markers, all are very good, so I think price is the only thing in this debate. :D :D

[lack of grace]

Originally posted by wobbles82
Hehe, more Nerve. All I can say is that even when it comes out, Smart Parts really likes to do a nifty "wait a year before its ready to go" period, so I would say ditch that idea. Nearly every product they make (As good as it may be, im not dissing them I love their products) has some kind of QC problem at first, or the boards fry, or the tolerances or low, something that just isnt right. So, onto the earlier debate. First off that is kinda off topic...who was saying that the Viking doesnt have range or something? I cannot believe that there still is range debates! If you even read the reviews for Vikings idiots will say it shoots almost as straight as a cocker but doesnt get nearly the range...how is that possible? Anyway, I think $tevo is making a good decision with a Dark Viking, they arent really that bad looking, and as for the dropoff im not so sure about that. I think Matrices are incredible markers, and maybe he should shoot both, but IMO I would take a viking also because of weight, some Trixxies can be packing. But its really in Steves (can I call ya steve? heh) hands, both are excellent quality, and smoking fast markers and either one will leave him pleased. (Specially the one that does less wallet burn) But for the X-mag debate, sure the Viking is more efficient, but having USED and SEEN numerous Vikings I can say that their is no way to say one is better than the other. The Viking is a very consistent marker, but I do not think it can match the abilities of the X-Valves ability to actually be dead on consistent in faster firing scenarios, or even its ability to prevent chopping. I have seen Vikings with eyes break balls, I do not diss them, but it is possible, an X-Mag occurence like this is very very rare. Well I wont say much more mainly because my opinion never...really matters, lol. But I think we should stop debating the markers, all are very good, so I think price is the only thing in this debate. :D :D

your good peeps wobbles......good peeps. yeah not all vikings pinch well...they have to be tuned right like any other marker.

[$tevo]

are they easy to tune? or they pretty difficult?

[Ov3rmind]

Originally posted by No sKiLLz
All quotes pulled from Viking owners. And in conclusion, I would LOVE for you to substantiate your claim of the Dark Viking doing ANYTHING better than an X-mag.:rolleyes:
Only one or two of those dealt with what I actually said, and I could refute each and every single one. One said they got dropoff after a string of 100 or so balls, I'd like to see someone shoot a fast string long enough to even shoot 100 balls.

All other quotes you pulled were either isolated cases, misconceptions, or rumors. If you would like me to match each one, repost them each lacking the quote tags, because I am NOT retyping each one.

[Ov3rmind]

Originally posted by No sKiLLz
I can't believe you just tried to tell me a Viking is lighter than an X-mag.

He had every right to.

If you've owned an X-mag, than you SHOULD know the trigger is VERY adjustable with o-rings and magnets.

I'd prefer set screws myself, much easier to deal with.

Kick? Last time I checked the X-mag has a bolt forward action.

That really doesn't have much to do with it. The Viking does have less kick, most owners describe it as Matrix like.

Price? Get a job.

I have a job, and it does not pay well wnough for me to buy a fully setup X-Mag over the course of working over the Summer. Not everyone is either spoiled rotten or blessed with a good career.

Pinch without modification? Last I heard the break in period was for the LPR. Better not try to sustain a high ROF out of the box without a Halo.

You can pinch many types of paint out of the box with the Viking. The break in period isn't too bad with the new solenoids either. Besides, adjusting the LPR is still much easier than setting up the Lvl 10.

Superman anno won't help the looks of this marker. Wonder Woman anno won't help the looks of this marker. Naked stickers of Victoria Silvstedt...maybe.

If looks are effecting your decision this much, it may be time to find another sport. The new Crusader milled Vikings look incredible anyway. Check them out in a link in the IAO thread stickied at the top.

Availability? I was mad at AGD too for making me wait, so I got a Matrix.

The thing is, there are some stores with Vikings in stock if you care that much. The wait is still much shorter than for the X-Mag anyway.

Speaking of which, I was never saying the X-mag was the way to go, I was talking about the Matrix. Is the Viking going to beat the Matrix on anything but price? (and don't say efficiency because people are getting just as many if not more shots than a Viking with the FF bolt)

Yes, the Viking beats the Matrix on many levels besides price. Size, reliability, maintanence, warranty, toughness of the ano, factory options (triggers, feedtubes, reg lengths), and weight in some cases (JMJ and Crusader milling is far lighter than any Matrix). Both are insanely fast, very low kick, and capable of using eyes. Only recently has the Matrix touched the Viking's efficiency.

Dark Viking is not a bad marker. I just don't agree with anyone telling me it's the best when it's nowhere near.

Give me some real reasons why the Matrix is better. In my eyes, it's struggling to keep up with the Viking.

[lack of grace]

Originally posted by $tevo
are they easy to tune? or they pretty difficult?

Yes because aka does it once when your gun is broken in....you never have to tune anything accept the sidewinder for velocity

[Ov3rmind]

You can tune it yourself if you'd like, it's nice to have the options. If you want to tune it yourself, you need a toolkit though, but it's about the equivalent of tuning a Cocker's LPR (very easy process).

[No sKiLLz]

You've got to be kidding. :rolleyes: I could squeeze your head and watch the dookie come out of your ears. I am way over your overstated opinions you preach as gospel.

No, no. You're totally right and I should have consulted the experts first (haha). I am going to sell my POS Matrix right now. Anyone want an NYX Matrix? No, of course not. Why would they when they can buy a VIKING!!! Well. We've been over those reasons, but other peoples opinions don't matter. Only yours.

You guys are cool. Keep up the good work. :D

[Ov3rmind]

Originally posted by No sKiLLz
You've got to be kidding. :rolleyes: I could squeeze your head and watch the dookie come out of your ears. I am way over your overstated opinions you preach as gospel.

No, no. You're totally right and I should have consulted the experts first (haha). I am going to sell my POS Matrix right now. Anyone want an NYX Matrix? No, of course not. Why would they when they can buy a VIKING!!! Well. We've been over those reasons, but other peoples opinions don't matter. Only yours.

You guys are cool. Keep up the good work. :D
GB2 the argument. You're doing the exact same thing we are, only on behalf of the Matrix.

[No sKiLLz]

Oh hell no. I don't view my opinions as absolute. What's that crap about YOU prefering adjustment screws to o-ring and magnets? All that says is you prefer a microswitch to a magnetic trigger. Does that mean everyone should? Oh sorry, god, your opinion is gospel.

Half of what you say is assumed, and the other half is contrived, yet you want people to believe you. You don't get a lot of attention in the real world, do you? Like I said, I'm over it. You can argue point by point with no evidence to your hearts content, but you don't have a clue.:rolleyes:

[Ov3rmind]

Originally posted by No sKiLLz
Oh hell no. I don't view my opinions as absolute. What's that crap about YOU prefering adjustment screws to o-ring and magnets? All that says is you prefer a microswitch to a magnetic trigger. Does that mean everyone should? Oh sorry, god, your opinion is gospel.

Half of what you say is assumed, and the other half is contrived, yet you want people to believe you. You don't get a lot of attention in the real world, do you? Like I said, I'm over it. You can argue point by point with no evidence to your hearts content, but you don't have a clue.:rolleyes:
Says the person who made an argument based on which gun looks nicer. It's not like you didn't preach your opinions either. You're obviously not over it if you cared enough to post, and good luck next time trying to mount your high horse when in reality you're arguing on the same plane.

There's no need to get upset and start personal insults over a debate about markers. Either try to match my points, or back out of the argument graciously.