Tourney Players: Is X-ball Sideline Coaching Good

[JEDI]

Ok, you guys are familiar with X-ball. The rules vary from regular tourney ball, in an attempt to make it TV and public friendly. One of the differences is coaching from the sidelines, and spectator interaction. The idea is that it gets the game moving more. Last year at the IAO, I saw this first hand. Spectators called out positions, and team coaches called out plays. "He's in the snake... The end nearest you"

I like the X-ball format, but I think the sideline stuff has to go. I think it takes the skill outta tourney ball. It blurs the lines between skilled, well practiced ballers, and slackers who can't learn timing and feild lay out. What do you guys think?

[Thordic]

Yeah, they were allowing sideline coaching at some of the games at IAO (I don't know which games it was, but there were sideline coaches yelling out positions).

I think its total BS. Half of playing is being aware of the other teams field position. If you have someone spoon feeding that to you, half the game goes out the window.

[Lee]

the way i came up in this game, that stuff is called cheating.

[Spaceman613]

One coach maybe, but the spectators yelling positions isnt very fun. At Chicago, I saw a few potentially amazing moves be squashed because of the crowd giving away a bunker or good position.

Sideline coaching should be limited or emilinated.

Just my opinion tho.

[jdev]

ive never played a tourney game before.. but it is something I am looking into/looking forward to doing.

I wouldnt want someone on the sidelines yelling bunker positions to me, or the other team. thats what my teammates would be for. everyone on the field is responsible for knowing where everyone else is.

just my 0.02

[Pvt.Opium]

I think it is total B\S. I once played in the hick land of Utah, in a speed ball area and the ref side line ref starting telling people were my teamates and i were. I almost killed the man.

I think that shouldnt be. Half the fun of playing tourny ball is the making of your own decisions. What skills do you need to have if you are being told where the other ream is and when to move and when to not move.

[ezrunner]

THE SIDELINE COACHING IS FINE.

First, it makes the game harder. You don't know if you can trust these guys telling you stuff or not.

Then, it lets the spectators really get into the game without getting in trouble.

Xball is going to probably turn into the highest level of paintball because it will probably turn into the one people see.

It was made to watch and that is what we need. That is how we get out-of-industry sponsorship and how we get more mainstream as a sport.

If you aren't a fan, then play NPPL Super Seven. You are still playing with some of the best talent in paintball and you have the standard ruleset.

-rob

[JEDI]

I dont think spectators changing the outcome of a game in any form is cool. Spectators should not be part of the game. It could lead to annoying unruley spectators. How do you draw a line between whats acceptable, and whats not? It just seems to open a whole unwanted can of worms.

How does it make the game Harder? Harder is a good way? Why not just give fans markers, and allow them to shoot 2 balls onto the feild within every game? That makes the game harder? Does that make it better? You can take away the sideline calls, and still allow for a very interesting watchable game. I would have to assume most of the players find it annoying. How can someone giving away your exact location and every move in the snake be favorable?

[ezrunner]

Well, slow down just a hair :)

Ok, the game is harder because communication is hampered since you are trying to listen to your coach and your teammates.

The noise makes the game harder as well as the distractions.

The spectators should be able to do anything they can at a hocky game, etc. So keeping a 5 ft space between the netting and the spectators would help, or putting up plexiglass which would get really messy.

Harder is good because it means the players work harder.

Yes it is annoying to have people screaming from the sidelines. I played xball at world cup and we had a lot of spectators, many who were players so we had a lot of input from the sidelines.

Xball is the spectator version of the sport so we are playing for the fans.

Super Seven is the game version of the sport and we are playing for the game.

-rob

[Mastema]

we have a mini 5 man modified X-ball ligue going here.

People being able to participate from the sidelines is really fun.
Who do you trust?

You still have to know where everyone is.

X-ball ain't GOLF.
Action packed, poeple yelling, taking sides.....that's another paintball game.

It's just another way to play paintball.
We had 2 choices so far, rec and speed.

Now there is X-BALL.

If you don't like it.....don't play.

[JEDI]

Well this is all interesting. I guess we can agree to disagree. I thought of all this after reading an article on this exact issue, in PGI this month. They interview Matty Marshal of the Iron men. He says most of the pro X'ers dislike the side line chatter, and in fact many teams agree to play with out it (coaching) even though its fair game.

You cant really compare it to any other sport. Its not any other sport. Its paintball. Besides, no other sport has a game outcome determined by the fans, other than loud chearing.

You dont have to take the stance- Dont like it? Dont play it- Its a brand new version of an already new sport. I think review and modifications of the rules are to be expected.
You're saying you had fun playing it, so I cant argue with that. I just dont see the use of your every move being called out.

[bojo-master]

i think that once x-ball gets big enough that there are going to be so many people yelling things to the players, that it will to get confusing to listen to the spectators. so the spectators will eventually cancel themselves out.

[WarBUCKs]

I don't like the idea of spectators giving info. Never trust the civilians unless you are paying them big money.

Why not have 5 or 6 reliable people (1 per person on other team) relaying positions on the field. Each of those persons would be responsible for other team members movements. This information would be relayed via "team codes" or some form of coding communication.

Well, I like the idea of X-ball because it gives that real tactical information warfare feel. The coach is like a commander that can give quick, precise instructions and positions during gameplay. The coach should be the only person giving commands and loactions IMO. Players should just ignore the people on the sideline. Imagine if it was a real war and you had a bunch of civilians standing 2 feet away telling you the wrong information. The commander should give final judgement on all tactical decisions and that is why you have him.

If only I could invent the visor HUD to display coordinates, plays, team locations and more. Ha.. I would be rich.

[Ov3rmind]

Originally posted by Pvt.Opium
I think it is total B\S. I once played in the hick land of Utah, in a speed ball area and the ref side line ref starting telling people were my teamates and i were. I almost killed the man.
Where did you play?

[Johnny_Reb]

Im gonna have to agree with ezrunner on this one, sideline coaching is great and good for paintball. Come on when you watch football half the fun is yelling at the QB and trying to warn him when he is about to get sacked, or when a defender loses track of a reciever and you yell at him to look behind him. In order for paintball to be more popular its goign to have to be more fan interactive.Let them yell where players are at, most players probly wouldnt trust the specataters anyone and do their own thing. With all the adrenaline they probly wouldnt even hear what they were saying anyway.

Yelling at least makes them pay attention, instead of forcing them to be quiet and boring them. I mean how many times have you seen a player come nehind another player and you want to scream "WATCH OUT!" so bad. Well now you can. Letting the coaches and spectaters yell from the sidelines is a great idea.

[FooTemps]

Coaching in other sports and coaching in paintball are 2 completely 2 different things! I don't get why you are comparing coaching in football and coaching in paintball. When you coach in football, you give them plays and such. A football coach points out problems in technique and how to react to the other team. The coach never needs to point out hidden players.

In paintball, you hide and shoot. A part of paintball relies on stealth. That's why people play snake and such. If you blow stealth out of the water, then why not just make the bunkers transparent?

[ntn4502]

bah sideline coaching sucks, takes the fun out of the game, and makes for extremely harder bunker moves

[tony3]

i think its fine, also, the players dont here it as much as you think, one game at chicago open, kenny klamper was playing back and a guy went to bunker him and everyone was yelling but kenny didnt turn around

[Johnny_Reb]

kenny klamper was playing back and a guy went to bunker him and everyone was yelling but kenny didnt turn around Foo, ntn cmon now, would YOU actually listen to ppl on the sidelines? You dont know if you can trust them. Id really prefer the fans to be involved in the game instead of just standing bored on the sidelines. If you want paintball to grow, your going to have to give the spectaters some freedom. If you didnt know anythign about paintball and went to watch a game where ppl made you stay totally silent would you have any fun? No.

Sideline coaching may seem liek a bad idea at first but give it some time and itll work out. Look at speedball, ppl were skeptical of it at first and didnt know if they would like it or not but then gave it some time and now its very popular. In order to get paintball on TV were going to have to give em a reason to put it on there. If you were skipping threw the channels and saw a paintball game where the spectaters were standing silent on the sideline would this seem appealing to you?No.Network owners wont put paintball on TV if they see spectaters like that, they wanna see the specs screaming, showing that ppl like to watch it. If you want paintball to grow youll have to accept sidelien coaching.

[ezrunner]

From experience guys, here we go:

The people on the sideline you tune out. It isn't a real issue.

The people you want to listen to you can with no problem, it is a totally different game. XBall is a totally diff game anyway cause the goal is to shoot 5 guys and only loose 4 doing it.

The way you play xball is more aggressive than std 5man. This is totally the place to do sidelining.

The coaching issue is a huge thing. This refers to the one coach per team on the sideline inside the netting.

The coach adds another element to your break and the end game. That is the biggest effect I see him having, and some better coaches can layout "plays" to call and have the team execute right then.

X-Ball is not regulation centerflag, it is a new format. I really liked it and hope to play it in the future.

-rob

[Nobody077]

The side-line reffing is what makes it X-Ball. I Watched my first X-ball game at the NPPL in Vegas, the sideline action realy made the game intresting, it caused the players to pickup the pace of the game, without the sideline action it would be another format of players trying to get up by one point and wait out the clock.
For the people that dont like the Idea of sideline coaching, just dont play X-ball. You can jump back 5-10 years of formats, before Sup-Air and speedball, and play yourself some Woods-ball, there coaching is not allowed and will get you eleminated

[JEDI]

Originally posted by Nobody077

For the people that dont like the Idea of sideline coaching, just dont play X-ball. You can jump back 5-10 years of formats, before Sup-Air and speedball, and play yourself some Woods-ball, there coaching is not allowed and will get you eleminated

Duh! Thats retarded. Not liking sideline coaching does not immediately equal playing in the woods. Disagreeing with a simple aspect of the game, doesn't put you back 5-10 years.

Obviously this issue is split. I for one just think that speed ball was based on certain principles of the game. Its like the people that argue playing "hopper only" speed ball is the same as all-the-paint-you-can-carry. Sure you can change one or two rules of the game, but it begins to hinder the true basis of speed ball.

[kosmo]

As far as sideline action goes, its not like football. Its a lot like basketball though. Like the coach/crowd yelling for Wally Sczerbiak to wake the freak up cuz he just let Iverson get open outside the arc and theyre gonna pass to him. Sure, hes gonna hear them yelling but its still up to him to 1) utilize the information thats given to him and 2) have enough skill to be able to stop the move anyway. Just because you know someones flanking you doesnt mean you got the skills to stop it. And thats what X ball is about. Having the smarts and the skills to adapt to what the other guy is doing. Theyre gonna get you sometimes and youre gonna get them. Its about being a better shot. Making better moves. And most importantly adapting to whatever is thrown at you series after series.

[bunkermaster10]

I think if we want it to be a sport we might have to let it happen. Look at other sports like basketball coaches yell out into the court and giving them heads up constantly. I totally understand when yall say its BS, cause I think so to, but I think we might just have to let it go and let it be like other sports.

EDIT: I didn't notice the post above me. Thats what I'm thinking also.

[Nobody077]

Jedi maby you dident understand my point. Im not saying if you dont like the sideline stuff you can only play woodsball. My point is that things change as time goes on, for the people that dont like it they dont have to play it, I have been playing for about 10 years and have seen many changes in the sport. First the electro guns, boy did people cry about those, but they are here to stay, then speed ball was introduced, many people said it was a noskill type of paint ball and only for TV(back when ESPN showed paintball), then Sup-Air came with the same ideas of this wont work for every day play. If people dont like one version of our Sport they have many other formats to play, crying about not likeing a format wont stop it from getting played, just as a new format wont totaly replace an older one. What ever a players idea of "True" paintball is they have the choice to play it and only it if they want, they need to stop crying about not likeing someone elses choice of fun.

[Paintchucker]

Originally posted by Nobody077
For the people that dont like the Idea of sideline coaching, just dont play X-ball. You can jump back 5-10 years of formats, before Sup-Air and speedball, and play yourself some Woods-ball, there coaching is not allowed and will get you eleminated

Ease on back there newbie! Back in the day, (Feb.1995 to be exact), while we played in the woods for the most part, we already had sideline coaching and spectator interaction at the Indoor National Championships. It adds a new dimension to the game.

Our sixth player was the coach, positioned in the bleachers so everyone could see with a bright orange vest. He called out the opposing positions and called plays. And then we sent a couple "distractors" down to the other side to add to the confusion. :)

Since the rules are the same for both sides, it is still an equal playing field. As Darwin said "Adapt or die..."