Qloader (innovation at IAO)

[Duke Henry]

Saw this pic and description, and wondered if anyone knew anything about this new product:

http://www.badlandspaintball.com/aboutus/iao03/qloader.jpg

"Innovation: The new Qloader being tested on a Speed. This loader is similar to a warp feed but no batteries are required, and as you can see, it is very compact. Simply screw in your pre-filled, spring-loaded tube and rip away. Wow."

??

[Nomad]

My guess? Closest comparable thing is an Airsoft hi cap mag for the P90.

The spring in the front of the tube pushes the paintballs to the back where a set of wheels operated on gas load it into the hose and breech.


.... I confusing myself now... :confused: :confused: :confused:

[freek133]

you know, I bet that thing really puts some pressure on the balls being fed into the gun... That doesn't look like it would work nicely with good brittle tourney paint imo.

[Kai]

Yeah, there is something about that over in the Friendly Corner, I believe.

It looks kinda lame. Seems like it would be front heavy, and being spring-powered...not very fast feeding.

[omni]

I had this idea ages ago! :D

But my idea was based on the Bizon (Rusian SMG)
It's spiral loaded. My idea was to just have a slant on the inside which would feed balls mounted to a warp on the side, and the front was loaded with a JT speed loader thingy.

Never finished it .. stuck with the best way to do it, pods into hopper on marker :D

[KOP_jedi_master]

I saw a post on pbn about this, and whoever said it said something around 40bps. I really doubt it can feed that fast though, it honestly just looks like it was cheaply made and I wouldn't ever buy it.

[magman007]

ACTUALLY!!!! Its very fast, it can be configured in many different loations, its fast to reload, and it shots in all posistions. The only problem with it is its pricey(250 for the system and 5 pods) and the pods only hold 104 rnds....


I liked it, but il stick with my halo thank you very much....

[Ov3rmind]

That just doesn't look to comfortable to play with. IMO it would have been smarter to have the tube mounted on the side of the gun.

[Kai]

250 seems a bit expensive for that.

[FalconGuy016]

Originally posted by magman007
ACTUALLY!!!! Its very fast, it can be configured in many different loations, its fast to reload, and it shots in all posistions. The only problem with it is its pricey(250 for the system and 5 pods) and the pods only hold 104 rnds....


I liked it, but il stick with my halo thank you very much....

Thats expensive, must be more to it that meets the eye

Maybe now we can test those extremely fast mags :)

[adam shannon]

sarah and blazingace(the italian salad)had a duel between an x-mag warped and that angel with the Q.

the q shoots fast, but its expensive...and no there is nothing else to it. plastic a ball detent and a spring. and the extra pods are $50 each!

the main drawback is if you dont shoot out all the balls in a pod your throwing away your paint. and if you do you leave yourself vulnerable when your out. also when you remove the pod to load another you cant shoot until the new one is engaged...thats bad.

with a warp fed hopper or a plain ole blimp you can load on the run and even shoot while your loading.

the q-loader is a good idea...but imo not too practical.

also since this guy just showed up with it, nobody ever heard of this guy before he might not know how PB works...if he can afford to pay pro's to use that thing it might take off..if he cant he will be broke soon.

also if anybody has seen the blue prints for g-force paintballs dreamfire loader...its the same exact thing...somebody is gonna get sued before its over.

[Dayspring]

Sarah & Blazingace

[Dayspring]

Q-Loader 1

[Dayspring]

This is how it loads. The balls will feed into the tube and the loader itself has a spinning cap to get them into the helicoil spring.

[Dayspring]

Q-Loader 2

[Dayspring]

Q-Loader 3

[Dayspring]

The one thing going for it is that the Q-Loader is totally independent of gravity. But there are some definite shortcomings. Price is a MAJOR one.

[GatoLoco]

I dissaprove of the removal of Blazingace's sideburns.

[thecavemankevin]

quite interesting...i too thought of something similar to this over the past year. I never wrote down any plans or anything...just kinda neat to see ballers think alike.

In its current design i think i would much rather stick with my warp, but who knows....might catch on

[fcpchop]

i think it looks pretty cool, and seems pretty compact but 250 is alot, u can get 2 halos fro that. i think i wil stick 2 my egg2 with y, 20bps and only like 70 bux:D

[Jack & Coke]

AWESOME!!!

Don't worry about the price... that usually changes with time.

The fact that people are out there INNOVATING, and taking CHANCES to advance paintball technology is great!

Whether or not it's a success, I like it!:)http://www.automags.org/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

Just as the WARP is not for everyone, this crazy looking thing will not be for everyone either.

If it works well, then great!:) I wish them luck...

[RRfireblade]

I kinda like it.

The price will come down some if it works and sells.

If it doesn't sell the price will come WAY down.

Any new ideas are good in that at least they are new.

Jay.

P.S.
No Egg on the planet feeds 20BPS,Sorry.

[Army]

I checked this out with PBX Mel late in the afternoon one day. I talked to the inventor about it to get more details.

It runs on a flat torsion spring, which, when twisted or wound up, provides the power to spin the helical drum, forcing the balls along the tube walls toward the feed hose and into the marker. A claimed 40+BPS is reasonable. The $250 price is a HALO-B and Warp Feed, with well over 140 balls available, compared to a little over 100.

Loading is quick and sure, as long as you align the slot and tab to "twist lock" the tube onto the feed/mount. However, shooting must stop while changing tubes, unlike a standard hopper and tube fill.

The tubes are 1/2 again larger than a regular guppy, making custom packs required until some company makes exclusive belts for the Q-loader pods. I'm not too sure a player will want to toss one of these $50 pods into the dirt either.

Biggest problem I can see, is the weight of the loader hanging out in front of the marker, throwing the balance WAYYY off. It doesn't get any better as it lightens up either. Hanging the pod vertically, makes a huge problem in the lay-down, or trying to get around a bunker. Not to mention the troubles you will have in woods play.

Lastly, I wasn't impressed with the material used. It looked and felt like cheap plastic, and seemed just as fragile.

It's a great first step in loader innovation. I can see modifying it to accept a motor instead of a spring, and utilize the helical feed for a back-pack hopper. Hundreds of scenarios players would be in hopper heaven!

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by Army


It's a great first step in loader innovation. I can see modifying it to accept a motor instead of a spring, and utilize the helical feed for a back-pack hopper. Hundreds of scenarios players would be in hopper heaven!



Exactly! No doubt this thing will have growing pains. I look at this as a good atempt and a good stepping stone towards the evolution of paintball.

Maybe someday, a loading system like the Calico will be available for paintball...

http://www.jmbdistribution.com/images/calico_m100.jpg

(not exactly like this, but you get the idea...)

:)

[Top Secret]

What about mounting it near the same position as the warp feed. Seems like that would balance it out and you can do the "warp-lean".

[Yuji]

Is there a contact number or website for this product? Who is the manufacturer etc. etc. I'd like to contact them, thx for the help.

[rx2]

I got the impression from the loading pic that this did operate like the helical-feed magazine of the Calico. Am I incorrect?

Or, Jack, do you mean that it would sit in the same position, dunping the paint directly into the chamber?

[adam shannon]

scenario guys would love it if it was underslung and made to look like an m-203.

they showed 3 seperate ways to mount it in their brochure. vertical like an old school bottle setup, horizontally on top of the marker where the hopper usully goes, and under the barrel like shown in the pics above.

as far as anybody knows there isnt a website. the inventor just showed up and sprung it on the industry convention. he said he was having a couple thousand ready to sell at nppl ny/nj. i guess the response he gets there will set the future of the q-loader.

[FalconGuy016]

All I really wanna do is see a gun shooting 40 bps :) such as a morlock board emag or one of those fast modified xvalved ones ive been seeing lately :) If no one else does, AGD should buy one and show off our amazing valve going 40 bps

[Blazingace]

I used it. It makes the gun super light. It does have some drawbacks, but otherwise it is a great idea. It is a pure front players setup. We thought that it would be better if you put the pod above and alongside the tank. It would make it easier to load and it wouldn't stick out with the barrel. It loaded super fast and shot well too. Since it is more of a front player thing the firing will loading is not such a bad thing. The pods only hold 104 balls, but a front player with 3 or 4 pods can carry the same as normal. The pod aren't that much heavier than regular ones either. It is a good step in the right direction.

[GoatBoy]

I think it's a great idea.

Lotta naysayers out there with no vision.

Something like this will hopefully move us toward a bullpup design for paintball guns, kind of like that picture earlier. There's no reason why the ball feed and bolt have to be directly under the grip. This would make better use of space and reduce your exposed profile.

The exact opposite would be something like a tippman M98, which yields like a 4-foot long gun. Talk about bad designs.

You're pretty vulnerable while reloading any hopper. Mostly because you've got one hand on a loader, and your concentration looking at the hopper as you try not to spill balls. If you think about it, the reloads on a system like this would be easier.

The best position to mount would probably be on top of the gun, feed area forward and extending backwards. Being on top, you might get the benefit of having gravity feed whatever few balls you have left in the tube while reloading. Facing backwards would reduce your forward profile.

Might be nice if they made an angel-threaded mount for it, so you can just secure it onto the gun like a feed tube.

[Jack & Coke]

I wonder if anybody took this design to the NEXT LEVEL of developement... I'm not familiar with this "built-in" warp-style feeding system, but it looks cool!:cool:

Has anyone here ever used this gun?

http://www.getrealpaintball.com/

http://www.getrealpaintball.com/images/gun2.gif

http://www.getrealpaintball.com/images/gallery/pic_7.jpg

http://www.getrealpaintball.com/images/gallery/pic_8.jpg

http://www.getrealpaintball.com/images/gallery/AT10R-1.jpg

[rx2]

That is a pretty old design. If I remember correctly, those were introduced in the mid-nineties. The mag held 30 rounds, and the paint was spring-fed, as the animation suggests. I have seen one used once, and I though it operated similarly to the Tippmans, but it has been a long time since.

[Jack & Coke]

how fast does it feed?

Does it jam?

Also, how does this new Qloader sort and funnel the balls up into the tube?

[sniper1rfa]

i like it. a lot. if you could fiddle with it to mount it where a warp goes (like, on top of the mounting plate), that thing would kick some serious ***.

[rx2]

Whoops! I just noticed that the magazine on that marker has been redesigned to accept a hopper and to feed via an electronicall powered mechanism. The original design, though, was 30 rounds. The one I saw worked pretty well, (no jams) although that was the only one I had ever seen. I don't remember the feed rates on it, but it was pretty fast. I think there was a selective fire feature on this marker, also. It has been too long to recall accurately.

This is only speculation, but from the pics the Q-loader looks like a helical system where the paint is indexed around a carrier that is tensioned by a torque spring.

[adam shannon]

from what we saw and were told the q-loader is a helical fed pod where the balls travel in a groove on the inside of the pod by spring tension in a spiral fashion then are indexed at a small hole one at a time in the end to go into the hose.

the guy said he had a patent..somebody look up the technical drawings.

those at's are chain fed. the chain picks balls from a gravity fed well and pulls them to the breach like a conveyor belt.

[Wat]

Ahhh, the AT85/TS1

ATS bought the design from Tagline back in 96 or 97 and then made some improvements. I picked up the first gen ATS version in 97. On co2 it jammed constantly. But when i switched to HPA, it became the single most reliable gun i've ever owned, more reliable that my palmer, minimag, angel, BBT and eclipse cocker. On HPA i have never ever had a single jam or ball break. Not 1 out of a case, not once when my hopper was running low, i mean zero out of maybe 50,000 rounds fired.

What i find unfortunate, is that outside of the feed mechanism, the gun has some unique designs. It is an auto cocking nelson valve. There is a LPR and 4 way just like a cocker. Unlike a cocker, the gun's timing is locked in and not connected to the trigger.

The trigger trips the sear, the hammer strikes the valve and the valve strikes a lever that trips the 4 way to open the bolt and cock the hammer. When the ram fully cocks the hammer and opens the bolt, a collar on the ram trips the 4 way the otherway closing the system.

The gun's got an autococking mechanism thats impossible to short stroke and an indexed force feed system that prevents chops. All of this without any electronics. Its unfortunate that the magnum loader was deemed to costly to produce.

[sneakyhacker420]

i don't like the Q-Loader... but i would really like some of that clear hosing to use on my warp feed instead of this fugly black hose :p

[adam shannon]

im pretty sure its just 3/4 inch corrugated plastic hose. find somebody who works at a hospital...they use miles of it in respitory machines.

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by Wat
Ahhh, the AT85/TS1

ATS bought the design from Tagline back in 96 or 97 and then made some improvements. I picked up the first gen ATS version in 97. On co2 it jammed constantly. But when i switched to HPA, it became the single most reliable gun i've ever owned, more reliable that my palmer, minimag, angel, BBT and eclipse cocker. On HPA i have never ever had a single jam or ball break. Not 1 out of a case, not once when my hopper was running low, i mean zero out of maybe 50,000 rounds fired.

What i find unfortunate, is that outside of the feed mechanism, the gun has some unique designs. It is an auto cocking nelson valve. There is a LPR and 4 way just like a cocker. Unlike a cocker, the gun's timing is locked in and not connected to the trigger.

The trigger trips the sear, the hammer strikes the valve and the valve strikes a lever that trips the 4 way to open the bolt and cock the hammer. When the ram fully cocks the hammer and opens the bolt, a collar on the ram trips the 4 way the otherway closing the system.

The gun's got an autococking mechanism thats impossible to short stroke and an indexed force feed system that prevents chops. All of this without any electronics. Its unfortunate that the magnum loader was deemed to costly to produce.

Thanks for the great explaination!:)

Too bad this system wan't refined over the years. I suspect the evolution of the electro's killed it. If SP kills off the electro market, maybe this system will make a come back?;) LOL!

[Mossman]

Sweet idea. I bet this is like what the corkscrew would be...if it was ever going to be made, which i doubt at this point.

If the price got reasonable, they would work something like you have of them, 1 on either side of the gun, mounted somewhat like warps. Then you had 2 hoses going into your marker, and some way to switch which one is letting balls into the breech and which one is blocked off.

That way you could shoot 1 pod, flip the thingy on top to let the other balls feed, and at your leisure reload the 2nd pod. And you'd have 200+ ball capacity, with only 104 balls MINUS the ones in the hose that don't get forced up there, you'd really be at a disadvantage.

Seems like it could be great for front guys though, they could shoot at any odd angle, and if the front guy is playing how they should be they shoulda got a few guys out or been tagged long before they hosed 100 rounds before giving themselves a chance to reload :)

[Jerhew]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke


Thanks for the great explaination!:)

Too bad this system wan't refined over the years. I suspect the evolution of the electro's killed it. If SP kills off the electro market, maybe this system will make a come back?;) LOL!

everything wat said is true...
though it does have it's flaws...
it can be reliable but you have to know how to use and maintain it and it is, for the record, 50x more complicated than an autococker
several small springs inside...lots of moving parts...
but atleast all the moving parts are protected inside the housing
unfortunately it's really not a speedball kind of gun...
i guess you could use it for speedball but you'd have to do some heavy modifications...
the grip doesnt accept a drop forward...etc
they come standard with semi and full auto(yes f/a and it's mechanical..too bad you can't use full auto anywhere anymore)
it's great for woods/scenario games but semi auto is way too slow to keep up with electros(i guess if sp loses the suite, someone could make an electro sear tipper grip for
it)
the other thing that you may be interested in j&c
is it's method of ball detente...
they call it a unisizer...
basically it's a short piece of nylon ribbing all the way around the circumference of the breech it's just stiff enough to grab any size ball but doesnt damage them in any way
and since it goes all the way around, the ball is centered when it's fired

[Jerhew]

my at-85
http://members.aol.com/jerhew/images/ejersat03.jpg

http://members.aol.com/jerhew/images/ejersat05.jpg

it's a good thing ats isn't a subsidiary of smart parts...
they could probably broaden their patent on it's index fed clip to claim prior use on the warpfeed :D

[Jack & Coke]

More QLoader information at WARPIG


http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/loaders/qloader/index.shtml


http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/loaders/qloader/title_qloader.jpg

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/loaders/qloader/spirals.jpg

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/loaders/qloader/vertical_mount2.jpg

Go read the article for more info...

enjoy :)

[sneakyhacker420]

IMO it should be mounted along the top of the gun... have some sort of mounting bracket to attach to the sight rail... now THATS thinking [from sneaky for once] :p

[Top Secret]

If they make a mount so that you can mount it offset of the tank like a warpfeed, I'll buy one in a second.

[sneakyhacker420]

i'm gonna buy one, mount it to my PGP somehow... and then loop the tube into the front or back of the 10rnd. feed tube... MORE PGP OWNAGE W00T!!

[Ov3rmind]

In the Warpig article it said they are working on some new mounts so it can go behind the grip frame or on your tank. If they get it to go on top of your tank, I'd buy one instantly. Imagine no blimp on top, and nothing bulky on the side (Warp Feed). Just use a ULE Warp bodied Mag and it would be sooooooooo compact. If it was on your tank, it really wouldn't get in the way of anything.

[kosmo]

One of my best friends used to have a TS1. That thing was sweet back in the day, so long as you took care of it. Was a bit of a pain to reload though, and it only held 80 rounds. The shroud around the barrel held more paint and dumped it into the magazine. Then they came up with the hopper adapter to make things a heck of a lot easier. The thing that killed it wasnt necessarily the electros coming out but that stupid NPPL rule about limiting ROF by forcing all tourney legal feed systems to be gravity operated, thusly killing off the TS1. The only reason the warp got by this rule was because the hose still went to the top of the gun, so the paint had to drop in. Even though its positive pressure that was enough to sqeak by the rule. I must say though, I am quite thrilled about what the Q loader is trying to do, and hope it evolves into something that could be used commonplace. I just plain hate hoppers, and a clip/tube feed system that could be reloaded with just a twist lock system or whatever would be just plain groovy.

[Jack & Coke]

From: http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/loaders/qloader/index.shtml




...The QLoader mount can also strap to a barrel, to mount vertically, similar to a traditional firearm magazine. According to Levi Hammett, the creative director for the loader’s manufacturer, Ancient Innovations, a new mount is also being developed to put the loader behind the paintgun’s grip frame, over the tank. Each of these placement methods puts the loader below the top of the paintgun, reducing the player’s silhouette, reducing the chance of a hopper hit...



Hmmm... do you think it would look like this?

[cris8762]

interesting, but i'd prefer a more "warp-like" positioning, or maybe more alined along one side of the body.

if they made these pods to hold 150-200 paintballs i might consider getting one, but the thing is, i blow thru 104 balls in under 10 seconds if i'm laying cover for my front guys (this is definetly a frontman's setup for now)

[Jack & Coke]

more brainstorming...

How about on top like an oversized stock class feed tube?

Of course this presents the problem of having it bump into your mask... but I'm sure something can be worked out...

[Jack & Coke]

...or how about flipping it sround like the guys at Action Markers did with their Illusion pump...

http://www.actionmarkers.com/Products/Illusions/Ill-Std-Drp-Reg-Prt-15b-Blk.JPG

[aaron_mag]

Just saw this on Warpig and figured you guys would be discussing it.

I think this looks great and has alot of potential. The warp feed is nice but I never was too crazy about its position or the extra battery weight. Once the most ergonomic position for this thing is found and the price comes down I might seriously think about it.

Interesting innovation. Hope more products like this come out. Darn and I just went to vertical feed!

[SIGSays]

weight and balance? wouldn't that throw balance off?

[Evil Bob]

I built a prototype helix loader for the SMG-68 back in 1992 that I used in Europe that mounted on the left side of the SMG68 parallel to the upper reciever, my design was based 100% on Calico's. I used clock springs to generate rotation, an internal raceway for the balls to follow, and a big central screw to drive the balls. It's only downfall was the last 4-5 rounds would not load as once the bulk of the balls was no longer under tension by the spring, it would no longer load, just like the last 10 or so balls in the warp.

I was unable to do much with the design so I mailed it off to Dennis Tipman in 1993, since it was designed to be used with the SMG series, which had pretty much completely vanished from paintball about the same time.

Since this type of loader does not rely on gravity (much like the AT85 series) it won't be tourny legal, but as was stated above, it may find a happy home among the scenario or rec ball crowd. Being able to fire the entire loader contents from any angle is a big plus.

-Evil Bob



Originally posted by Jack & Coke


Maybe someday, a loading system like the Calico will be available for paintball...

http://www.jmbdistribution.com/images/calico_m100.jpg

(not exactly like this, but you get the idea...)

:)

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by Evil Bob


...Since this type of loader does not rely on gravity (much like the AT85 series) it won't be tourny legal...



Whooa... does this mean the Qloader is illegal for tourny?

Could someone provide a link to the ruling? thanks

Also, doesn't the AT85 feed system rely on gravity as much as the WARP? If you turn the WARP upside-down, it will only shoot a few more balls - just like the AT85.

[Evil Bob]

That's the main reason why the warp feed was allowed in major tournies, it was still dependant upon the gravity fed loader sitting on top of it.

-Evil Bob

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by Evil Bob
That's the main reason why the warp feed was allowed in major tournies, it was still dependant upon the gravity fed loader sitting on top of it.

-Evil Bob

But isn't the AT85 dependant on gravity also?

If you turn the AT85 upside-down, it will only shoot a few more balls... after the balls in the belt are gone, it will not shoot any more paint. Paint needs to fall to the bottom of the magazine in order to be snatched up into the belt system... no?

http://www.getrealpaintball.com/images/gun2.gif

[RetroEclipseMan]

Hey, just wanted to say that I got to try this out last weekend at Pan Am Seattle and have to say that it's not bad.Got to shoot the Ir3 that it was mounted on and it kept right up and never missed a beat. The cons just out weigh the pros for me. It is a step in the right direction. If it could be mounted on top of the gun horrizontally it would be better i think.

[Big'n slo]

Darn, they beat me to it :D

[Benfica4ever]

Does this thing just fit angels?

[Mantis]

My AT85(s) are very much alive and kickin' :)

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/nkarpinski01/hansel4.jpg

Back to topic, I think it's a very cool idea. With various optional mounting brackets, I'd get one for sure.

[billmi]

Originally posted by Evil Bob

Since this type of loader does not rely on gravity (much like the AT85 series) it won't be tourny legal, but as was stated above, it may find a happy home among the scenario or rec ball crowd.


I think you would be very hard pressed to find a tournament that requires gravity feed. When the NPPL/PSP and the IAO and Pan Am changed their rules in 2000, removing the gravity feed requirement, that had a huge cascade effect. Most tournaments in the US rely on the NPPL, PSP, or Standardized (used by IAO and Pan Am) rule sets, or build their rules based on them (like X-Ball rules that were built based on the 2002 NPPL/PSP rules.)

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

[Jack & Coke]

Thanks for the correct info Bill! :)

[GatoLoco]

I thought that the rule for loaders is that it doesnt have to be gravity feed, but it has to be able to fit on other markers (like PTP warp adapters making the warp legal) Or do I have the wrong idea?

[eg0_Slayer]

I think the idea is great...but like everyone else is saying...putting it over the tank like a warp would be the "icing on the cake"...by the way...their web-site tells a little more about... qloader.com

[billmi]

Originally posted by GatoLoco
I thought that the rule for loaders is that it doesnt have to be gravity feed, but it has to be able to fit on other markers (like PTP warp adapters making the warp legal) Or do I have the wrong idea?

I'm not aware of any tournaments that use that rule. That's not to say no one has a rule like that, but NPPL, PSP, and Standardized rule sets don't. Most tournament rules deal with technical requirements rather than marketing and availability issues.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

[Vendetta]

They best part is, no more batteries!

[tony3]

I checked the NPPL and PSP rules about force fed hopper, and they totally got rid of that rule

[Evil Bob]

You're quite right Bill, I'm not seeing the rule at all in any of the 2003 rules, had to go back as far as 2000 to find any mention of it anywhere. I haven't reffed any majors since 2000.

Looks like this one is 100% legal.

-Evil Bob