A $500 Spyder?!?!

[Animal Mother]

http://www.ravenusa.com/paintball/products/markers/nexion/

Click the "Nexion Features" for more info, it has a msrp of $499.95... for a Spyder.. lol

Then again people do pay $1000 for Intimidators.... heh heh just kidding :D

[Star_Base_CGI]

Yes everyone knows that its no good unless you pay alot of money for it...

Id buy that...

If I had $500 to burn.

http://www.ravenusa.com/images/paintball/products/markers/nexion/main_top.jpg

[deathstalker]

MSRP is high, but the price at most stores is in the $300 dollar range. Also, prices of blowbacks tend to drop pretty quickly.

I hope you're not one of those who bags on blowbacks, AM. If so, "Chuff Chuff!"

[Animal Mother]

Blowbacks are great for $100 starter guns, they have a great price/performance ratio. But $500? Hell no...

That is the MSRP, it will probaly sell for around $400.. even $300 is way too much for a Spyder.

[TigerMan]

Yea they're pretty high for an electro. I held one, and didn't like the feel, it kind of felt cheap to me. Now Bad Company is switching to them in hopes that they do well they'll sell alot of them. ;)

[nt2004]

dont pay much attention to MSRP prices. They always tend to be higher than the norm selling prices

[XVFrontplayer]

yeah its all fun and games untill the bolt sticks and the trigger frame outgoes the cylce rate. really ive seen it with alot of hybrids. the frames are to fast for the recharge rate of the gun. i dont think its worth 300-500 dollars. though it is a great gun for 199.:D

[Animal Mother]

Bad Company really tricks out those Spyders too. That reg and loader cost more than the gun itself, hehehe

http://www.paintball.about.com/library/graphics/badcompany03.gif

[Frontline Newbie]

bob long makes 1000 doller spyders. Of corse they're a lot better, but not worth the money.

[Angry Man]

Well, you could say that Bob Long makes a 1,000 dollar spyder, but then you'd have to say that ICD, WDP, Smart Parts, and basically every company that makes a two tube stacked electro makes a spyder. The Intimidator is no more a spyder than any of those guns. Although the intimidator uses a body similar to a spyder body, its method of operation is completely different and instead the same as an angel, impulse, bushmaster, etc.

And we all have our own opinions, but if a timmy isn't worth 1 grand...nothing is. Other than featherlight vikings and maybe an angel speed, there's not much on the market that's any better.

[Corbet]

animal mother - the guy in that picture is a manager at my local field (toledo indoor paintball). Another employee also plays for bad company.

[beefstew]

if you shoot a spyder and timmy next to each other, tell me it feels the same.

[Xyxyll]

Lol... so many Spyder/Raven haters! I feel hurt!

The Raven neXion WILL drop in price. The AMGs used to be $300. Now they're $200ish, maybe lower. Introduced markers are usually more expensive. As soon as they are out for a while, they lower in price... especially Kingman markers. It is basically another Spyder, but it also has $5000 milling on it... so consider that too.

Without the Spyder, most of us wouldn't be playing. Kingman makes an efficient low-price marker. Works great and can still compete with higher-priced markers. Bad Company tricks their Spyders up... why not? With a good air system (reg), barrel system, loader, and tuning, you have a competitive tournament marker.

There are not many things holding Spyders from strong competition.

The board is capped at 13 (14 for the new E99 Avant and Imagine Select). Three people are working on their own uncapped boards. These are drop-in boards that have a programmable cap. You may have seen Pi's board in Nerobro's Spyder at IAO 2003.

The way Spyders operate, they have the tendency to chop paint. A well tuned Spyder will not chop. If you work with a light main spring or an anti-chop bolt, it will be very difficult. Until now (well, there was one case one year ago), Spyders have not had an ACE upgrade. ACE will soon be an available upgrade for Spyders. (check the Dealers forum for more info on the X-ACE).

Spyders tend to have a harder trigger pull, even with the Eframes. Spyders use microswitches to activate the board. Now, HES is another of my projects coming up. (shh.. don't tell anyone. ;)).

Recoil has been brought up a few times. The new DHC and ACP strikers nearly eliminate all of the recoil.

Public image... Players everywhere seem to look down on Spyders. Some people do it because of jealousy (SuPrBuGmAn's markers). Other people do it because they had bad experiences. Some people even do it just because they want to feed the stereotype. Regardless, new players are coming into the sport and succumbing to the stereotype... when it's just a STEREOTYPE.

Now, I would love to see Spyders make a stronger presense in tournaments. Spyders are simple, easy to maintain, efficient, incredibly fast, and look good. Why should they be pooped on by a stereotype?

Yes, I do own a Spyder. I also own a very nice Automag. I love both! It is great going to fields and seeing people's reactions. I have had a really little kid who must have only been playing for 6 months sporting a 2k3 cocker and trashing Spyders. I kinda doubt he's ever used one ;). I loaned my Spyder to my teammate to take to the field one day in case his RT Classic wasn't working (turned out it didn't work...lol). He pulled out the Spyder and people started asking questions as to why someone would put expensive upgrades on a Spyder (If you put them on your higher-priced guns, why not a lower-priced gun?). They saw him sporting the Max-Flow. I wish I was there, but I can tell you that Chris definitely got a few smirks.

http://www.microhlp.com/Xyxyll/angled.jpg

I probably didn't make much sense... I was just rambling most of the above.

[f3rr3+]

i love spyders, i wouldnt get an electric one (im kinda against the whole electric look how much paint i can throw it compensates for my small... uh... ego... thing) but i still have my TL plus that i started with (and even tho i am going to sell it cause i need the money, and with a automag classic you dont really need a backup) Kingman should be credited with giving most customers a positive start in paintball unlike some other low end companys **cough** BE **cough**

[Recon by Fire]

I used to have a Spyder AMG. If you trash talk Spyders it only shows how ignorant you are. A BE Blade is just as capable of shooting a paintball to get an elimination as my X-mag. I eliminated plenty of players with high-end markers with my Spyder, much to their surprise. Do players really think holding a $1K+ marker makes you invincible to paint?

[gamarada717]

Yeah, just about every single person here has used a spyder/clone or a tippy. Great guns for the prices. I hate how people trash talons. It's $20! They don't expect for people to play professional tourney ball with cheap beginner markers. I remember when I first got my spyder shutter from a friend. I thought it was the greatest marker in the world. I thought I had something x mag quality...(of course thats before I learned about companies other than kingman and brass eagle). In truth, a spyder and an automag are not that much different. They shoot paint. They might do it different ways, but they accomplish what they're made for.

ps- i still like my RT Pro more though....heh;)

[Recon by Fire]

Actually, I would like to see a tournament like that. One in which all the players had to use the exact same marker, especially a low end one. That would put all the players on an even playing field and amkes it purely a contest of skill, no comparison of markers at all. Besdies, it may be damn hilarious to watch/play too!

[Grasshopper]

Originally posted by Angry Man
And we all have our own opinions, but if a timmy isn't worth 1 grand...nothing is. Other than featherlight vikings and maybe an angel speed, there's not much on the market that's any better.
...Except a Brass Eagle Tiger Shark!

[Angry Man]

Very true! Nothing can compete with the tigersharkiness of a tigershark.

[Prairie]

Originally posted by Animal Mother
A 500 dollar spyder ?!?!?!

A 1200 dollar mag?

:D :D

[White_Noise]

i think that it is a ridicuous price for a spyder, but the real price is probably around $300, i think it is kinda odd that kingman comes out with a new marker about every week.

[Stotic]

The tigershark was my first marker. Ah the memories of backyard ball.

[Animal Mother]

I still say a Bushmaster is a better deal.

$300 for a trick Spyder or $249 for a Bushy b2k. I'd go with the Bushmaster. It's not a sear tripping blowback. $200 for a package deal with a Spyder is the way to go, you get a great gun that can keep up with everyone else. But past that.. I'd go for something other than a blow back.

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

You have to admit that stock spyders pretty much suck. However, that could be said about many guns(mags one of them). With the right tuning up(not even that much money to do so), i think spyders can be damned good guns. Gonna find out soon enough.

[RoadDawg]

Spyders are great. I used to own a Shutter w/ a Booyaah and man did it rip. Stock spyders aren't really that bad. The reg is useless but that is easy to replace. Only problem I had with it was the off set bottom line holes and getting it to work with N2. It took me some fooling around to finally get the thing to work on n2. The bottom line issue was resolved by the booyaah which had both in line and off set bottomline holes. I've even toyed around with the idea of getting a AMG/EM1 and messing around with it. ICD was the marker manufacturer that got me into the sport with the good ol Alley Cat. That was a tough marker. I only cleaned it once in the 3 years I owned it. If it wasn't for lack of upgrades I would of held onto it longer.

[i like tictacs]

Originally posted by Frontline Newbie
bob long makes 1000 doller spyders. Of corse they're a lot better, but not worth the money.

i want to put a thumbs up emoticon here...

----

anyway, timmys are obviously better then spyders...

but still nowhere near the 1200 msrp of a few of them

[Recon by Fire]

Speaking of Tigersharks...at teh field yesterday there was a group of 4 guys playing. One of them was sporting his Tigershark :)

Nothing wrong with that, more important that you play then what you own IMHO. But these guys wouldn't play with anyone else and would play on one of the wood fields. But what was hilarious, was their "ring leader" spouting off in the staging area about those "ridiculous players with their big hoppers and extra paint pods when they will never fire more than a hopper of paint in a game anyway". The comment was a bit more crude than that but that was the content. As he said that, I stood no more than 10 feet away with my 5 pack harness on with my X-mag in hand. I asked the players in the immediate area if they wanted to get a game going, no response from "them".

[Reo5th]

Originally posted by Stotic
The tigershark was my first marker.

Thats funny...The tigershark was AngryMan's 3rd marker...

[Xyxyll]

Originally posted by Animal Mother
$300 for a trick Spyder or $249 for a Bushy b2k. I'd go with the Bushmaster. It's not a sear tripping blowback. $200 for a package deal with a Spyder is the way to go, you get a great gun that can keep up with everyone else. But past that.. I'd go for something other than a blow back.

You say it as if sear trippers are bad... There's nothing wrong with a sear tripper. It works doesn't it? The blowback design works right? A paintball is projected at anywhere between 0-300+ fps, right? So what's your complaint. Cockers are sear trippers. Mags are sear trippers.

Also, I said this on another forum last night... I think I'll post it here too.

Let me set the hype straight. The Raven neXion is NOT a Spyder.


Actually, it is much different than its predicesors (sp?). It is not even labeled a Spyder, because Kingman didn't want it to be associated with multiple versions of the same Spyder. The neXion has $5000 milling, a 15° vertical adapter, top cocking, clamping feed neck, stick trigger, and a whole new frame. It's very different. I like it. I don't need one though, so I won't be buying one just yet.

Kingman does seem to put out new guns all the time. But realize also that their guns just get more advanced every time they bring out a new Spyder. Now, they understand how people relate Kingman to the Spyder, and Kingman to the "new guns every week" trend. Then they come up with this revolutionary marker. It can't be called a Spyder, otherwise the paintball community would look at it like "just another Spyder." They wanted the neXion to be its own. Also, that's $5000+ milling on those bodies. Consider that aswell compared to the $80 cheaper Electras. Note also that the price will continue to go down!

[madmatt151]

A friend of mine got this Nexion as his first marker. IT feels very nice, not like a Spyder at all. It is solid and the trigger is very nice, not sloppy like all the electro Spyders. In one game he got out immediately and my air tanks was empty (stupid me), so I grabbed his Nexion. Let me tell you, even I was shocked at how fast I ripped off on this thing. I don't own an electro gun so I am not fast on an eelctro trigger and I was ripping on this trigger. I agree it is not realy a Spyder clone. Whatever they did to make it different it worked. Oh and he got the whole package of gun, Revvy and a 48/3000 tank for under $350. Not a bad deal. It is pretty lightweight as well.

[aaron_mag]

As if we all hadn't been eliminated by a Spyder at some point! My Spyder clone (Rebel) has been as much of a workhorse as our Tippmann 98. Doesn't that guy at otterscustom.com (or something like that) love tricking out Spyders and making them low pressure? Sounds like you can do alot with them.

[Recon by Fire]

Yep, Otter certainly likes his Spyders, almost as much as his PGP's! Spyders are definately a good marker for those who love to tinker and change everything. For what you spend on a Spyder, there is no way you can complain for what you get.

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by Angry Man
Well, you could say that Bob Long makes a 1,000 dollar spyder, but then you'd have to say that ICD, WDP, Smart Parts, and basically every company that makes a two tube stacked electro makes a spyder. The Intimidator is no more a spyder than any of those guns. Although the intimidator uses a body similar to a spyder body, its method of operation is completely different and instead the same as an angel, impulse, bushmaster, etc.

And we all have our own opinions, but if a timmy isn't worth 1 grand...nothing is. Other than featherlight vikings and maybe an angel speed, there's not much on the market that's any better.

Youre right. No paintball gun is worth $1000. The spyder can perform just as good as a timmy, angel, etc. the only potential problem is the quality of the workmanship. If you think about it, all 'guns (in the end) perform the same task; getting a .68 caliber paint-filled sphere into the air, in a general direction, at about 300 fps. The real things that are important on a gun are: 1) consistancy, and 2) efficiency (if thats what youre looking for). Another VERY important thing in paintball (although entirely seperate from the gun) is the paint-to-barrel match. After these three things, its all preference. Feel, recoil, etc. But that is not performance, that is preference, (yeah, i know that's redundant but some people wont get it without saying it 10,000 times).

[tony3]

Gabe, I'm sorry but you are wrong. Paint to barrel match means hardely anything. As long as the bore of your barrel is bigger then the paint you should be fine. I have shot hellfire in my 691 barrel and it shot amazing. Paint to barrel match is a great way for companies to make extra money. The only gun I would use a barrel kit on is a closed bolt gun because you need to have a good match or paint will roll out of the barrel

[Meph]

Originally posted by tony3
Paint to barrel match means hardely anything. As long as the bore of your barrel is bigger then the paint you should be fine. I have shot hellfire in my 691 barrel and it shot amazing.

See, that's the thing. Does it shoot great? Sure! However it's more than just the accuracy. Accuracy on everything is always debatable and everybody gives different opinion.

But a chronograph doesn't lie! It doesn't have a special feel or what have you or hoohoodilly. Just the facts, ma'am.

Take your small paint. Say Dusk or Evil or anything. Use it in a properly fitted barrel, .684-.686 what ever the bore size of that bag tends to be. Shoot over the chrono and adjust to 280. You'll be shooting money.

Now slap on that .693 bore barrel. What just happened? Your velocity dropped! You now have to crank your pressure up more to get it back up to 280, and along with that your velocity spikes are more eratic than before!!! I guarantee it.

So accuracy? Eh, not so much a factor. Honestly I've used small paint in a medium/large barrel and shot fine. It's More about your consistency from each shot, and more importantly how efficient your marker will be at the same velocities.





*Side note: Gabriel, congrats on bringing a 5 MONTH old thread up from the grave!

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Meph

*Side note: Gabriel, congrats on bringing a 5 MONTH old thread up from the grave!

He digs up an old thread and then changes the topic to paint-to-barrel match. Pretty funny if you ask me. Of course there's been a lot of thread reserection going on lately.

[Tobe2be]

i actually shot that nexion madmatt151 was talking about in a game to i switched my emag for the nexion and it wasnt as bad as i thought it was. it wasnt an emag but it actually was easy to get a rope of paint going. the only thing i didnt like that it was LOUD as hell. i guess thats expected from a spyder

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by TheTramp


He digs up an old thread and then changes the topic to paint-to-barrel match. Pretty funny if you ask me. Of course there's been a lot of thread reserection going on lately.

Oh please! It was on the first page of the paintball talk forum for christ's sake! Am i supposed to check the dates on FIRST PAGE threads

[JesseB]

not to offend the champions of the spyder but that is completely ludacris the whole idea of a sear tripper is crap. I have never seen one last over 6 months of continuous use. like every saturday and sunday. they wear out and break entirely too fast. Sure you can fix it but why not take all the money that it would take to upgrade the spyder to the point that it is reliable fast and competitive and just buy a true electro marker with better quality, a warranty, a.c.e. system and other upgrades already set up on it.

Spyders are ok but there comes a point where they need to draw the line. If they are gonna target tournament teams then they need to make a quality probuct not just the same gun with some milling and a different color every other week. they should stick with the rec crowd and possibly make a scenario version. but I don't think this is a step in the right direction as far as getting spyders into the tournament scene.

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by JesseB
not to offend the champions of the spyder but that is completely ludacris the whole idea of a sear tripper is crap. I have never seen one last over 6 months of continuous use. like every saturday and sunday. they wear out and break entirely too fast. Sure you can fix it but why not take all the money that it would take to upgrade the spyder to the point that it is reliable fast and competitive and just buy a true electro marker with better quality, a warranty, a.c.e. system and other upgrades already set up on it.

Spyders are ok but there comes a point where they need to draw the line. If they are gonna target tournament teams then they need to make a quality probuct not just the same gun with some milling and a different color every other week. they should stick with the rec crowd and possibly make a scenario version. but I don't think this is a step in the right direction as far as getting spyders into the tournament scene.

Haha... ludacris. I didnt know Mike Tyson was a regular on AO ;)

But yeah, the only thing that somebody would HAVE to replace over a while with a sear trippers is the sear. Thats like $20. Gee golly, that sure is alot of money! :eek:

And about the eyes, you can now buy aftermarket boards for spyders that come with eyes. And a 90* frame. and 'the one' kit, which turns your gun into an electro-pneumatic gun similar in operation to a BKO. Or, if you are very technichaly inclined, buy all timmy parts and build a timmy for cheaper than buying one new. And how exactly are spyders not tourney-capable? :rolleyes:


On a final note to this reply, to make a spyder tourney ready, and I mean REALLY tourney ready, it make take $300-$400. That is with all AKA internals, a Palmers stabalizer, and a SBM 90* frame, uncapped board, break beam eye system, and 50 g microswitch (when it comes out). Add this to the $75 a spyder Xtra costs, and tell me how that compares with, say a TKO 'mag sold at paintballgear.com for $300 alone. With stock trigger. No second reg. Horrible efficency. Not to mention blender. Waste of money? I think not.

[Hey Its Vo]

Spyders? Timmys? What's the difference? They both have batteries, selanoids, and baords in the grip frames. They are starting to look more alike now, just the Timmy has to run Nitro instead of Co2

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Gabriel


Oh please! It was on the first page of the paintball talk forum for christ's sake! Am i supposed to check the dates on FIRST PAGE threads

What are you nuts?

You have to go back like 50 pages to get into threads posted in July.You need to keep your eye on the clicker thing.;)

[greg]

man this has got me thinkin.... maybe i should keep me old spyder and use my mag as a backup:eek: .... i think a trick spyder would be nice....
maybes i will get an electro frame for it instead ofa a collhands frame for my mag for bday:p

[Xyxyll]

Even though Gabriel brought up a very old post, he made a GREAT point.

Tony3: Sorry buddy... but paint to bore match is an aweful lot. The only other thing that makes a difference is consistancy of air behind the ball. A good air source and regulator solve that. Don't know if you'd argue this or not, but your marker has a regulator too!

JesseB: Um... you realize that all mech guns are sear trippers (MAGS AND COCKERS TOO)? Whole idea is crap huh. No impulse would have even been invented w/o sear trippers. I'd also like to point out that I have NEVER seen a sear break on a Spyder.

"and just buy a true electro marker with better quality, a warrenty, a.c.e. system and other upgrades already set up on it."

hmm.. interesting. Please tell me what makes a "true" electro better? Do you consider the Emag and Xmag "true" electros? And you must be a little confused because Spyders have a good warrenty and ACE systems are available. For the inexpensive cost of a Spyder, no way is Kingman going to throw a $100 regulator on there stock. That's up to you to put on there.


I really get ticked off at you ignorant bashers who are so sure that Spyders are worthless markers. I do believe both markers shoot paintballs at their targets at the same velocity. Don't even bring speed into play. A Spyder can cycle at over 40 cycles per second (FULL cycles). Hmm... I'm sure my Spyder can shoot just as accurate, just as consistant, just as efficient, MORE reliable, and FASTER than your Impulse.

Please... I await your response.

[Recon by Fire]

I have played using a Spyder and an X-Mag, in both cases I played well, got eliminations, got eliminated some, and above all else had lots of fun! So yes Virginia, Spyders can be just as good as Mags :)

[Xyxyll]

Thought I'd point out that not only do I sport a Spyder, but I sport a Dark Angel IR3.

[greg]

i wasnt bashign iw as just moved.....

[Xyxyll]

greg: none of my ranting was aimed towards you. :D

[tony3]

Originally posted by Xyxyll
Even though Gabriel brought up a very old post, he made a GREAT point.

Tony3: Sorry buddy... but paint to bore match is an aweful lot. The only other thing that makes a difference is consistancy of air behind the ball. A good air source and regulator solve that. Don't know if you'd argue this or not, but your marker has a regulator too!


The first barrel kit that came out into the mass production market was the freak I believe. SP made it off of lapcos Idea for a barrel kit. They did this because shockers and cockers of the day were closed bolt, so it is possible for paint to roll out of the barrel. That was a good reason. Then they started saying all this non-sense about paint to barrel match that is completely false. Stuff about barrels in paintball is all therory IMO. No one does real and accurate tests testing these therories so the whole idea is thrown out the window in terms of reliablity. All I know is my gun is consistent and accurate with a 686 paint and a 691 barrel.


Originally posted by Meph


See, that's the thing. Does it shoot great? Sure! However it's more than just the accuracy. Accuracy on everything is always debatable and everybody gives different opinion.

But a chronograph doesn't lie! It doesn't have a special feel or what have you or hoohoodilly. Just the facts, ma'am.

Take your small paint. Say Dusk or Evil or anything. Use it in a properly fitted barrel, .684-.686 what ever the bore size of that bag tends to be. Shoot over the chrono and adjust to 280. You'll be shooting money.

Now slap on that .693 bore barrel. What just happened? Your velocity dropped! You now have to crank your pressure up more to get it back up to 280, and along with that your velocity spikes are more eratic than before!!! I guarantee it.

So accuracy? Eh, not so much a factor. Honestly I've used small paint in a medium/large barrel and shot fine. It's More about your consistency from each shot, and more importantly how efficient your marker will be at the same velocities.


Well, I don't understand this because this weekend I was using hellfire and my big bore barrel and getting +/- 1 on my impulse. At one point I got 3 same readings on the chrono, and I turned it on and off before each one to make sure it was reading them.

[Evil1]

I say if some people want to spend a lot on a spyder, let them. Most will see it as a learning experience. I don't care what other people shoot as long as they play honestly and safely. One guy on my team has a Black Dragun and loves it. He is also one of the most aggresive on my team and the gun works good for him and we never ridicule him for his marker choice, he ridicules us for shooting EMags all in good fun though.

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by tony3

No one does real and accurate tests testing these therories so the whole idea is thrown out the window in terms of reliablity.

So, you are saying that the extensive tests AGD performed are neither "real" or "accurate?" Interesting.

[JesseB]

xyxyll: no an emag/xmag is not my idea of a true electro. I am referring to guns based on a 'noid driven design that cocks and recocks the gun. The only sear tripping electros (do not use electronics to control the actual functioning of the marker but they do have a microswitch that is electronically controlled to fire the gun) are the e/xmags, and spyders. The Espyder is a piece of crap, seriously... They churn out several hundred thousand at poor tolerances only bothering to spend $5000 on milling. If you do a little research on tooling, machinery, CAD programs, Electricity, Man hours, and miscellaneous costs then you will find that $5000 means little to nothing when it comes to milling. that $5000 they spent was burnt in probably a little over a month and they whipped out a few thousand guns... not too impressive if you don't beleive the hype that was printed in the pages of APG.

Oh it has a 15* asa woooooo So does my impulse, black magic and dark. big deal its a 5 buck part that they threw in the deal. Top cocking bolt? So does an avenger. No $100 reg? The impulse has one and the msrp is $500 why didn't kingman throw in a reg? 40 full cycles ehh? DO IT!!! I am not challenging you little man I am just saying kingman is out there to make their bucks in mass quantities, not with the quality of their product. Sure the spyder is a good gun. But I dont have any need for one I have mags, a cocker, impulses, a dark angel and a new dye matrix, so I have no real need for one. If I was new I would probably pick up an E99 as they are getting to be pretty reasonable.

Gabe: $400 into $75 that is 475, then you are gonna need a tank, Since you are obviously trying to be cheap Ill give you CO2 insted of air but on that tank if you want any consistency going to your stabilizer then you are gonna need an on off and anti siphon. thats another 35-40. so that is $505. you forgot a barrel. once again you are a cheapskate so we will go with a good all around smart parts progressive. Sound good? another $35, $540 now. a hopper hmmm well since your gun freakin pwns now then you are going to need at least a 12V revvy. $45 whoa wait up we done spent $585 bucks on a $75 gun to go balling with. Where did I miss the part where this was considered a sane thing to do? Sorry but I would have taken all that bling and got a impulse, cocker, or mag. Oh and the TKO mag thing. A second reg? do you know anything about mags? and you could easily upgrade to an intelli, and 48/3000 air tank, for what your spyder there cost.

[Xyxyll]

They churn out several hundred thousand at poor tolerances only bothering to spend $5000 on milling.

I agree, but they also don't need to spend a lot on milling. Look at the #s. They are focusing their attention on the newcomers to the sport. There really isn't enough respect from the more experienced palayers to focus towards them. But then again, the Spyder has as much potential to perform perfectly in tournament play as an Autococker, Xmag, Angel 4, Impulse, etc.


Oh it has a 15* asa woooooo So does my impulse, black magic and dark. big deal its a 5 buck part that they threw in the deal. Top cocking bolt? So does an avenger. No $100 reg? The impulse has one and the msrp is $500 why didn't kingman throw in a reg?

lol, I never mentioned stock upgrades. Kingman wants to keep costs down and keep MSRP's down for the consumer. And that $5 part is the same on your Impulse. I never said anything about top cocking. Top cocking isn't a factor in performance. I never said a Spyder had to "look" good. :)

No reg? Eh.. sure, a handful of the Kingman markers do come with regs, but I will admit they suck. But then again. Take a $90 eSpyder, put a Max-Flow on there, and you have a $170 marker that's as consistant as the $400 Impulse (same air systems).


40 full cycles ehh? DO IT!!!

If I had some kind of sound/video recorder, I'd gladly show you. But since I don't, ask Nerobro... he may have a recording. Just look at the way a Spyder operates. How fast do you think it's only mechanically capable of?


I am just saying kingman is out there to make their bucks in mass quantities, not with the quality of their product.

That's true, I never said they weren't.


Sure the spyder is a good gun. But I dont have any need for one I have mags, a cocker, impulses, a dark angel and a new dye matrix, so I have no real need for one.

I am not trying to convince you to go out and buy a Spyder. Any of your markers will send the same paintball out at their target at the same velocity. All I'm asking for is some respect for the Spyder. There is no reason a Spyder can't perform the same as a "high-end" gun.

[NGp8ball]

or u can jst spend a 130 on a marker with eframe and put a timmy bolt in there:D... jst dont forget apoc, hes gotta sweet spyder too

[Evil1]

The new Angel4 sucks! The speed and the ir3 even the LCD is better than the 4.

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by AGDFlash
The new Angel4 sucks! The speed and the ir3 even the LCD is better than the 4.

WOW! Random nasty comment alert!

As far as I can tell, the speed and the IR3 are basicly the same thing as the 4. Neither of those "suck" so I don't see how the 4 can.

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by JesseB
Gabe: $400 into $75 that is 475, then you are gonna need a tank, Since you are obviously trying to be cheap Ill give you CO2 insted of air but on that tank if you want any consistency going to your stabilizer then you are gonna need an on off and anti siphon. thats another 35-40. so that is $505. you forgot a barrel. once again you are a cheapskate so we will go with a good all around smart parts progressive. Sound good? another $35, $540 now. a hopper hmmm well since your gun freakin pwns now then you are going to need at least a 12V revvy. $45 whoa wait up we done spent $585 bucks on a $75 gun to go balling with. Where did I miss the part where this was considered a sane thing to do? Sorry but I would have taken all that bling and got a impulse, cocker, or mag. Oh and the TKO mag thing. A second reg? do you know anything about mags? and you could easily upgrade to an intelli, and 48/3000 air tank, for what your spyder there cost.

Yes, it is very easy to spend $500 more on a gun, but remember, not just a spyder. And yeah, i didnt include the hopper, tank (i have 68/4500 nitro, thanks), or barrel because you would have to do that to ANY 'gun you buy. Yes, even the mag. So, lets see... TKO mag $300. Ule Body $150. Go X valve $225. intelliframe, or y-grip $95. however, if you want an electro (like the spyder above, sear tripping) it'll cost you $250 for a centerflag. If you wanna go accessories, ok, and we'll make the prices even. $45 for the revvy, $35 for the barrel. Now, you know we cant go CO2 on an x-valved mag, which is one of the most popular upgrades, so there's at least $80 for a little 45/3000 steel tank, which you should be able to get about a hopper off of before you have to air up again. No second reg? No problem, not needed. At all. I was just making a comparison. so that brings your total to: $930 for intelliframe or y-grip. 1035 for a centerflag mag. now granted, if youre gonna drop this all at once, get an e-mag. Alot of people upgrade over time, though, so if thats the route you're gonna take, this is what it would cost. With a TKO. If you start from scratch it'll cost you more. Just think about it, champ. :rolleyes:

On a side note, I want it made clear that I LOVE mags, just pointing out that ALL guns have thier weaknesses, not just spyders.


*EDIT* And when you were listing sear tripping electros, you forgot to mention ALL of the e-cockers. ALL of then. Did I mention every single one of them was sear-tripping?

[JesseB]

well by definition the ecocker uses electronics to actually cock the marker and fire it. So it is not a "sear tripper" because of the electronically controlled pneumatics.

well I listed basics that were needed and the basics needed for a amg are alot simpler than the upgrades you listed. All you need is air, and an intelli really. Sure xvalves and all that are great but when it comes to a basic bare bones gun that is competitive to an e spyder. I am not bashing the spyder here I am just saying that for the money you can get alot better performance elsewhere.

[Xyxyll]

The ecocker uses a sear to trip the hammer. Then it uses pneumatics to return the assembly. Sounds much like a mechanical cocker (sear tripper) with an electronic 3-way. Hmm... so just making the 3-way electronic removes the "sear-tripper" from its name... even though it continues to use a sear to trip the hammer?

[nerobro]

What does it matter? What makes an electropneumatic gun "electro" is the fact the trigger is no longer mechanical.

Anything else doesn't matter. Saying a gun sucks becuase of it's operating method is a pretty poor option.

I mean a cocker and a sterling are "the same gun" operationally. But. The sterling is slower due to ram problems.

the eualizer and mag are the same gun, in theory. But the mag works better.

the VM-68 and spyder are "the same gun" Where the spyder will cycle faster than 50hz, and the vm is around half that.

Beacuse one gun uses a ram, and one gun uses a spring loaded hammer, why should the ram driven gun be better?

they aren't.

In fact, if you'd like to use the timmy as an example. That gun takes 10ms to make the bolt START to move. The spyder, is halfway done with it's entire cycle by the time those 10ms are up.

Notice that even with eyes timmys only shoot in the mid 20's. My spyder, WITHOUT eyes was shooting 23bps. (that's the ROF the board was set for... we didn't adjust it at all for the majority of setup and testing) Without the superior cycle rate I don't think this would be feasable.

Don't knock a gun because you see the way it operates to be "wrong" in your eyes.

[bornl33t]

this is what I see when I look at that picture

[robdamanii]

Considering I own a nexion...

It is the nicest stock spyder i've handled, and I've been around the block on that one.

The barrel is actually decent, and the feedneck is very solid. The top-cocking is a nice feature, the milling is awesome, but as usual, the reg sucks hard. The angled VA is also pretty nice, but needs to be more high flowing.

Not at all a bad spyder by any matter of means.

[tony3]

Originally posted by TheTramp


So, you are saying that the extensive tests AGD performed are neither "real" or "accurate?" Interesting.

I have not seen any of agd's tests, but I think people read way to far into barrel physics and all that stuff. Just get a good barrel and good paint and have a close match and you should be fine. Or as long as the paint is smaller then the bore of the barrel.

[Xyxyll]

Originally posted by tony3


I have not seen any of agd's tests, but I think people read way to far into barrel physics and all that stuff. Just get a good barrel and good paint and have a close match and you should be fine. Or as long as the paint is smaller then the bore of the barrel.

That sure sounds a lot like paint to bore match. You want as close of a match as you can get. :) You just contradicted yourself. ;)

Can we close these arguments now? ;)

[Evil1]

This thread is getting dumb now. If anyone were to even spend close to $500 on a spyder it would not be very smart when you could get a new ULE RT Pro for around $400. And you can get an N2 system for pretty cheap these days, so that would definitely be the smart way to go.

[Xyxyll]

Hmm... and now that brings us back to the top. Flaming what the thread is talking about. Also, this is an older thread, and the Raven neXion is nowhere near that price anymore. Online stores always throw Kingman's new guns out there at really high prices for the first month or two.

Now, if you were flaming anybody that puts $500 INTO a Spyder, I would request that you read over this thread. That's already been discussed.

Anyways...

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by AGDFlash
This thread is getting dumb now. If anyone were to even spend close to $500 on a spyder it would not be very smart when you could get a new ULE RT Pro for around $400. And you can get an N2 system for pretty cheap these days, so that would definitely be the smart way to go.

Yeah, the thread was hijacked and we have already discussed the death out of it. Anyway, to you it may be stupid, but to others its not. it's a preference thing, get over it.

And just to clear something up, you dont HAVE to put $400 into a spyder to make it tourney ready. Really, all you have to do is put an e-grip on and if you want a higherROF board. Thats about $150 all together. My prices were with AKALMP internals, SBM 90*, ACE, and other goodies. That is where the $400 came from. That is the setup I am personal working on, so I'm a bit partial :D Just don't take it as gospel and we'll all be ok.

[Recon by Fire]

So I guess my Spyder AMG with $450 Max-Flow, $200 Freak, and $150 Halo B, was excessive? Maybe not so excessive considering I made another upgrade to that marker set-up and later went to an X-Mag with warpfeed. I just bought my accessories before I bought the other marker :)

[Gabriel]

lol, not excessive, just not NEEDED. If that's excessive, then I am gonna be screwed with my setup. Got some pics of your guns?

[Evil1]

Sorry to offend. I guess my answers are just biased being that I have never had good luck w/ any other marker other than my AMs, MMs, RTP, or my EMag. I didn't mean to offend.

[Xyxyll]

Originally posted by AGDFlash
Sorry to offend. I guess my answers are just biased being that I have never had good luck w/ any other marker other than my AMs, MMs, RTP, or my EMag. I didn't mean to offend.

I've owned a Classic RT and a X-Valve'd RT Pro. I loved both of them, and I'm sad that I decided to sell them. Now I have a Spyder and a Dark IR3. I wouldn't mind getting an RT Pro again when I find the $ though.

[nerobro]

With a $500 budget, you can NOT beat a spyder for preformance. Nuff said. You can buy other guns, but they will not work as well, be as easy to repair, or be as accepting of newbie mistakes.

$500 won't even buy a ULE RT mag and the nitro to feed it.

The BKO, and Impulse are not in the same preformance category as a spyder.

A LX mag, is. Execpt for the trigger. An e-frame, or a gun that will take a ULE trigger, will push the gun only price well above $500. And where the spyder is quite fine on co2, the mag will need nitro at that point.

I have ~900 invested in my spyder. I have an IS board, halo, nwpb feed adapter, LPC, the Esprit itself, a Dye ultralight, an apoc rail, a halo b, a centerflag 201 68/45 system, and a centerflage cradle. I did not overpay for the preformance I get. For the same $1000 budget, you could not math the preformance I get from this setup.

I get 23bps consistantly (if I set the debounce low enough...) I have shot queing, I get 1700 shots off a 68/45. And it stops on paint. OH yea.. and it runs 700psi ;-)

lets not forget a mag though. If you read the manual, there's almost no problem you can't solve for yourself, the factory support is superb, and it's a gun that's constantly under development. This cannot be said about spyders.. which have basicly plateued. (however, we'll still trying to find out exactly where that plateau is.)

Oh yea. I own a Micromag. And you couldn't offer me enough money to sell it. I've always felt that way, and with AGD's support it's only gotten better. (LX, powertube spacers, ULT shims in the old style on/off)

[Gabriel]

^^^^^bravo, bravo... very well said :cool: