Mouse Trap Trigger

[Miscue]

I was thinking about how a mouse trap works, and how slight pressure will spring the trap.

Now, what if you applied the priniciples of a mouse trap to tripping a sear? Perhaps, using the bolt return to reset the trap... although I realize there is not much energy to be tapped from the return.

I'm assuming this sort of thing was thought of years ago, and that it doesn't work otherwise it would be used. Anyone know why it doesn't work?

Perhaps ULT and LX changes the feasibility of this?

[luke]

Interesting idea...

[JAM]

Isn't that sort of how the cocker racegun frame works? it just uses a small solennoid to trip a light lever that allows the sear to move. dumb way to explain it, but in theory, it's similar to your mousetrap.

[Clockwork_Orange]

Are you crazy Miscue!?! You'll lose a finger with a trigger like that:p :D

[50 cal]

Lots of firearms use this same principal to reset the trigger and sear for the next shot.

[hitech]

The problem as I see it is that the mouse trap "trigger" is not very stable. It does not latch reliably. I releases far to easily. However, what about a modified mouse trap... :D

[yurchikcs]

Originally posted by 50 cal
Lots of firearms use this same principal to reset the trigger and sear for the next shot.
Exactly. A mousetrap is a rough version of a basic trigger system, where the cheese sits on the trigger, the retaining wire is the sear and the actual wire trap bar is the hammer. Sorry Miscue, nothing new here.

[dinger]

even though that technically is the way that the current triggers work, has there ever been a trigger that was built almost exactly like a mousetrap?? with an exetremely light trigger pull :o

[RRfireblade]

JUST happen to be cleaning so for those who are interested........

[RRfireblade]

I give you a 100 year old mouse trap design.....

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by dinger
even though that technically is the way that the current triggers work, has there ever been a trigger that was built almost exactly like a mousetrap?? with an exetremely light trigger pull :o

That trigger there is lighter than any electro PBall gun I've ever shot.(Used for match shooting only.;) )

Jay.

[Miscue]

That's similar to what I had in mind. I figure, why must the trigger directly engage the sear? The ULT makes the trigger pretty dang light, but why not go one step further? I'd like to see the trigger indirectly trip the sear... and also use a trigger disconnector.

Make the trigger pull/length have nothing to do with sear movement... but rather actuate a mechanism that happens to trip the sear.

With the trigger disengaged from the sear, you could use the bolt return to reset the sear to locked position. This way you can trip the sear, but won't have hyperframe type problems.

Maybe... instead of using the RT for a reactive trigger, use the reactivity to reset the mouse trap.

[RRfireblade]

I agree, it's a pretty simple design.

However the sear/disconector was designed before and for the 45Colt (Browning actually I believe)it might be tougher to retro in a Mag.(Automag that is)

I remember Tom saying he tried it or thought about it way back and decided it against it for some reason I don't remember.


Jay.

[madman83]

i've got something like that in the back of my mind. i'm waiting until i get my xvalve before i really start working on it.

[Miscue]

Well, I think he tried it with a trigger that was directly connected with the sear... and the trigger pull was made longer. The question I had is... if you throw the sear out of the equation... as far as the trigger pull goes... would it open up different doors... making a trigger disconnector feasible w/o a really long pull.

[RRfireblade]

I think the deal there is the on/off,even in the ULT that's still the primary weight of the trigger.The sear/bolt relationship currently can be fitted for a far lighter pull the the on/off requires.

Jay.

[Miscue]

I was thinking of something like this...

Have some spring loaded deal that locks into position after the retro kicks it out. Then let the trigger actuate this, and not the sear. And once again, I think that you might have to also lock the sear, and the bolt unlocks it on the return... Maybe put a lip on the sear, so the bolt helps push the sear back into place, along with the ULT on/off... recocking the mouse trap.

[hitech]

Originally posted by Miscue
I was thinking of something like this...

Now that I see what you mean it looks like a good idea. Adds a little complication, but has possibilities... :D

[Miscue]

What I was thinking too is... if this works, you could throw a small solenoid in there somewhere and have both mech and E-Mode... using a small 9v driven solenoid.

[RRfireblade]

OK,
5 mins of design so bear with it......


Trigger rod trips disconnector....

Spring force trips sear and on/off link and fires gun...

Gun fires,Reactive force resets trigger thru on/off link and disconnector resets from it's own spring force....

During stroke,trigger rod ramps over disconnector allowing reset regardless of trigger position and when trigger is released spring force drops rod back in behind disconnector.

Allows for all stock valve (no ULT on/off) all milled into ULT Intelliframe.

Jay.

[Miscue]

Latch also serves as disconnector

[CrazyLad]

haha brings back memories when my brother touched a mouse trap and it closed on his pinky! ahahhahaha good times good times..Oh yeah good idea too.

[nerobro]

that kind of trigger is already in use. A small amount of force is arleady controling a huge amount of force. A cocker sear, A spyder sear, a mag sear. The mag sear is holding back something like eighty pounds of force in the L7. but it only requires six pounds to release it. with the ule trigger you're talking less than one pound.

The real problem with "hair trigger" triggers is that they arne't very stable. the settings dont' last long. Ask guys who've done the really radical trigger jobs on spyders or cockers. The closer you come to the gun firing itself the closer you get to it just not working.

wow... the IAO class just came in handy ;-) Q were you at the class?

[Miscue]

No, missed it. I just don't want to believe that there isn't a sneaky way to make a reliable hair trigger... maybe it hasn't been figured out yet.

[nerobro]

well... if you're willing to go with a longer trigger pull... we can do a LOT. if you stick with a gun that doesn't have "timing" you can do some pretty crazy things.

Hmm.... are we sticking to mags?

[luke]

Originally posted by Miscue
What I was thinking too is... if this works, you could throw a small solenoid in there somewhere and have both mech and E-Mode... using a small 9v driven solenoid.

Wouldn't it also make a electronic Z-Grip possible?

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by nerobro
that kind of trigger is already in use. A small amount of force is arleady controling a huge amount of force. A cocker sear, A spyder sear, a mag sear. The mag sear is holding back something like eighty pounds of force in the L7. but it only requires six pounds to release it. with the ule trigger you're talking less than one pound.

The real problem with "hair trigger" triggers is that they arne't very stable. the settings dont' last long. Ask guys who've done the really radical trigger jobs on spyders or cockers. The closer you come to the gun firing itself the closer you get to it just not working.

wow... the IAO class just came in handy ;-) Q were you at the class?

Actually that's not true or really the point,
First off,all those guns still trip the sear directly with the trigger.A true "hair" trigger is not even possible in that manner do to the extremly poor tolerances in a sliding hammer/sear system and the beating that that relationship takes during normal use.You'd have to mate the sear to the hammer to a degree that is just not possible in a paintgun built to typical industry standards (or AGD).
My "5 min" design eliminates that whole issue by seperating the hammer/sear mating from the trigger/disconnector relationship allowing it to have a MUCH higher degree of precision and not subject to any of the abuse typically seen,making a "hair" trigger not only possible but easily as reliable/stable as any other trigger assembly only far lighter and shorter.I think this has never been mass produced do to the complex fitting of the final assembly and the fact that way back when,who would have thought you'd have to compete with sub 1mm and 1/2 oz
electro triggers.(but you could if wanted to.;) )

Mine is just one possible way to achieve this,it could be configured many ways.

Jay.

[personman]

Wow.. this could really be a way to stick a log up Smart Parts rear.. If they acceive their goal and they are the only electro producing company, and Miscue or AGD or someone whips out this thing, there could be some major ownage :p

BTW this DEFENTALLY would be something you would want to patent!!!!

[Xerces]

it seems that if you use springs to return it to the cocked position it would require alot more force than the recoil and excess of what a hpa powered paintballgun can offer. the whole gunpowder thing offers quite abit more force than a paintball gun. however i could see it working, if you lose massive amounts of gas efficiency