Did Anyone get their ULE Triggers Working? [Archive]

Eric Cartman

07-30-2003, 11:28 AM

Aw man I wish we had tech classes up here in Canada! I'm dyin' to get my grubby little paws on one of these things. If anyone got one who isn't using it, please PM me. I'd love to take it off your hands for a reasonable price. I promise I'll put a case of paint through it right away and post my results ASAP.
Tom if you're ever looking for test pilots in the great white north, I'm your man!:D

edweird

07-30-2003, 01:19 PM

Well as you know I have had mine in since the day after the tech class. To compare I have went back and shot a stock RTP and I would not trade it back for the world.

Now...

If I had a 4th shim I would like to try it out and see how much closer I can push the fire and recharge points together w/out getting runaway.

Oh and while talking about the ULT at the store we all think the next step is to come up with a solid way to take some of the useless slack out of the RTP trigger once this mod is installed. Two or 3 concepts have been thought of as I can see:

1 installing a set screw in the forward portion of the top of the trigger to push the forward stop closer to the recharge point

2 loosening the push rod to send the fire and recharge points closer to the forward stop.

3. making some type of drop in device to block off the trigger slack

But that is best left for another thread

Oh and TK while your watching this thread ... we forgot something you said in the tech class about the shims. We cant remember if you said the shims for the lvl 10 are the same size but 2 or 3 times thicker right? And if they are you can in theory use them in place of multiple ULT shims right?

07-30-2003, 01:24 PM

Just adding my name so I get email updates to this thread.

Tom if you want to send a few ULE trigs to Brad feel free. I would make an excellent test bed:D

BlackVCG

07-30-2003, 01:28 PM

ULT shims are .005" thick.

LX shims are .010" thick.

I'm running four shims in my ULT for my XRTP and it works fine. I'm going to do a few things to tighten everything up and get it as smooth as possible.

edweird

07-30-2003, 01:44 PM

Hrrm I thought that as well Black...

but in chat Tato took his micrometers to the lvl 10 shims he had and came up with .013... which led to the confusion.

Thanks for the clear up on that! I will test with 4 shims later today if time allows.

cledford

07-30-2003, 02:08 PM

One of class attendees was kind enough to send me his ULT to play around with. He's sending along a copy of his notes - but I wouldn't be offended if people started throwing around technical info on setup and tuning :)

I expect mine today or tomorrow.

-Calvin

Jerhew

07-30-2003, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by gtrsi
Just adding my name so I get email updates to this thread.

Tom if you want to send a few ULE trigs to Brad feel free. I would make an excellent test bed:D

ditto and ditto
:)

Mr.Orange

07-30-2003, 02:57 PM

Hello all,

I am getting my Intelliframe modified to accept the Emag magnets, and the blade trigger to do the same along with an adjustable trigger stop. I am hopping this will allow some trigger tuning when the ULE Trigger comes out.

I am also curious if the sear rod will now be adjustable, to dial in this new adjustable on/off...

James

Gunga

07-30-2003, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by Mr.Orange
I am also curious if the sear rod will now be adjustable, to dial in this new adjustable on/off...

To quote myself in another thread:

"There have been different length on/off pins for years. They varied in length by .005"...the same thickness as a ULT shim. So nothing has changed there.

Don't mess with your trigger rod. Or at least don't complain about your gun not working right after the length is changed."

RobAGD

07-30-2003, 05:47 PM

Got mine working, after a massive problem with shoot down, went to 3 shims and it shot alright but didnt feel good. Kinda slow and mushie.

I dont have any more shims to tinker with ( my baggie only had 3 shims and a but load of the .030 orings ) So can I swap a ULE shim for 1 LX shim to add 1 ? or are they differnt sized externally ?

Ended up taking it out as I like the crisper feel of my RT's normal trigger.

-Robert

Jeff_PbDaddy

07-30-2003, 06:06 PM

TK.

I had to leave PA before the missing parts got in.

I've talked with Jon twice about sending out the bottom half and shims but haven't seen anything in the mail yet.

I'll email him and find out if he's sent the parts.

Jeff

Riot[Z-Grip]

07-30-2003, 06:24 PM

I'm waiting until after my next local tournament to send my ReTroValve out to get milled for two orings. I can give a report as soon as I get it back.

-Riot

Cristobal

07-30-2003, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by edweird
Hrrm I thought that as well Black...

but in chat Tato took his micrometers to the lvl 10 shims he had and came up with .013... which led to the confusion.

the difference is probably varriation in the thickness of the parts when they were manufactured -- I imagine that they are theoretically supposed to be .010" I wonder what the spec is for how much the thickness is allowed to varry. .003" is pretty small (thinner than a standard sheet of printer paper), but still its a good percentage of the overall thickness.

Muzikman

07-30-2003, 06:48 PM

Yeah, I forgot to pickup the on/off bottom myslef. I gotta see if I can get one. I then need to build a complete ULE mag to take to pbfanatics.com and show them. When i was talking to them a few days ago, they said they quit carrying AGD products cause they were not moving.

Gunga

07-30-2003, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by RobAGD
I dont have any more shims to tinker with ( my baggie only had 3 shims and a but load of the .030 orings ) So can I swap a ULE shim for 1 LX shim to add 1 ?

You can use either L10 or ULT shims in the ULT. The ID and OD of the shims is the same. It's just the thickness that differs. .010 for the L10 shims, .005" for the ULT shims.

845

07-30-2003, 09:50 PM

I had mine in for 2 cases of paint. I took it out cause once i tried to pull fast i would just shortstroke like mad. Now I am having issues getting the original RTP on/off to work. But as I was running it I noticed no technical problems.

I did notice that when i shortstroked i didnt have any paint breaking issues.

Potatoboy

07-30-2003, 09:57 PM

I installed my ULT into FunkMunky's Xvalve while my RTP valve was off getting drilled.

I had great success with 1 ULT shim, but when I tried 2 I couldn't get it firing at all.

It seems to work fine with one.

I didn't get a chance to measure it, but perhaps mine is offsized since everyone else is running way more shims.

nerobro

07-30-2003, 10:52 PM

I have muzikmans problem. :-) *gonna call AGD's offices tomorw about getting that bottom*

BlackVCG

07-31-2003, 01:15 AM

Everything will differ in tolerances. The LX shims can vary by about .003" and the ULT shims can vary by about .001".

You can use this to your benefit to use offsize shims to super-tune the trigger, since .005" increments are a bit too much in my opinion.

Don't try to fan the trigger or walk it. I still think it's too stiff to try that without short stroking.

aut911

07-31-2003, 07:57 PM

is there going to be a beta test for this mod? count me in if so! I have a z valve right now and the pin diameter is about 1.3mm. works pretty good for lightening but shorts strokes too often for my taste.

aut

edweird

07-31-2003, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by aut911
is there going to be a beta test for this mod?

Yeah it is currently being beta tested by the people that attended the AGD tech class at IAO. TK deticated 90% of the class to explaining everything about trigger dynamics and how they relate to the AGD marker.

No pay no play :P

madmatt151

08-01-2003, 12:03 AM

Who does the drilling of the older RT valves to accept the ULT? I would like ot have it done as well.

edweird

08-01-2003, 12:50 AM

madmatt...

AGD said they arnt planning on doing this as of now... But expect one of the AO-Vendor type ppl to offer this as a service once they get out of beta testing

take out your current on/off assy. If it has 2 orings (one inside the other) on top your good to go.

if it only has one your going to have to get someone to drill out the lip inside the on/off chamber

cledford

08-01-2003, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by nerobro
I have muzikmans problem. :-) *gonna call AGD's offices tomorw about getting that bottom*

Why is a new bottom required? Does the kit need additional hardware to work correctly with, say, a Xvalve?

-Calvin

Gunga

08-01-2003, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by cledford
Why is a new bottom required? Does the kit need additional hardware to work correctly with, say, a Xvalve?

-Calvin

The whole on/off assy is new and will drop into an X-Valve (you'll have to tune it though). Muzik and Nerobro apparently forgot to pick up the new on/off bottom.

aut911

08-01-2003, 11:40 AM

who knows what the proper trigger rod length is? I just want to make sure. for a classic if that makes a difference.

aut

Gunga

08-01-2003, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by aut911
who knows what the proper trigger rod length is?

1.990" from the tip of the trigger rod to the back of the clevis.

KayleAGD

08-01-2003, 12:49 PM

Hey Calvin..

During the class the bottoms were not shipped with the other parts. We had them next day shipped and handed them out to the people who asked about the missing parts. The remainder of the parts went home with me and have been shipped back to AGD to be distributed.

cledford

08-01-2003, 01:09 PM

Thanks Kayle!

-Calvin

Kevmaster

08-01-2003, 01:53 PM

dont worry calvin, i got the bottom for ya :)

cledford

08-01-2003, 01:54 PM

Cool Kevin!

-Calvin

cledford

08-04-2003, 06:35 AM

OK, got mine! I've got the general idea of how the thing works - anyone got specific info on proper installation procedure? (Something along the lines of a quick start) I've got a Xvalved mini waiting to go :)

-Calvin

edweird

08-04-2003, 06:53 AM

PBdaddy did an awesome step by step install thread here a couple days ago... If it wasnt 4:56 am I would try and find it for you

cledford

08-04-2003, 07:06 AM

Thanks for the tip - but I came up dry. I can't find a user called PBDaddy (in the members list) and a search for ULE trigger doesn't pull up an install thread. If you happen to come across the thread please post the URL here.

Thanks,

-Calvin

edweird

08-04-2003, 07:53 AM

Well lucky you I happened to find it for you before I went to bed.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=95598

tremis

08-04-2003, 08:03 AM

I put mine in the day I got my bottom. Started with two shims and it works great. I do agree about shortening up the overall pull. If hysterisis is smaller that makes the pre and post travel longer. Might as well shorten them up to original lenghts. I love this thing.

Tremis

cledford

08-04-2003, 08:05 AM

Thanks!!!

-Calvin

cphilip

08-04-2003, 08:33 AM

...if I even had one I know I would have gotten it working by now... :rolleyes: :(

cledford

08-04-2003, 08:53 AM

didn't want to rush anything - that on/off pin looks REAL fragile.

-Calvin

aut911

08-04-2003, 12:50 PM

im a gettin one soon from tunaman muhahahaha!!!!!

time for some of what aut does best, tuning the mag.

sorry i have had about 8 cups of coffee this morning and im a tweakin!!. but im really excited too.

aut

StygShore

08-04-2003, 02:28 PM

Tom,

We have a friend who registerred/paid for the class, but due to his father's illness, he had to rush down to Florida, and missed out. Is there any way he can go about getting one of the ULT's?

Thanks

Styg

edweird

08-04-2003, 03:17 PM

Originally posted by cledford
didn't want to rush anything - that on/off pin looks REAL fragile.

Yeah that was the thing that Tom was most scared of about this upgrade. Hence the beta test period and such. But unfortunatly the smallness of the shaft is the thing that makes it Anyhow its not the pressure from the sear or the gass on top that is going to damage the pin... its the people that cant take the valve out properly what will have problems with this. And as we know how TK loves to over engineer everything this minor problem bugs him all to hell.

I feel comfortable with the pin and think it is a solid upgrade. Im on my 5 or 6th case with it now and am loving the heck out of it.

08-04-2003, 03:23 PM

Any comments from AGD as to when the Beta test period will reach completion?

jb

QUINCYMASSGUY

08-04-2003, 04:11 PM

Hey Edweird (and others beta-testing), did you end up using the trigger stop and is it something that reduces chuffs and helps ROF? Something borderline essential to this upgrade or at least a huge benefit?

Is the general consensus now that you've played with it that it is still not walkable or is it possible with practice?