Mags or Cockers???

[autoglocker]

I'm soon going to invest in a high end semi, but can't really choose between an RT Pro or an ANS GenX-3 Chaos Cocker. Both have excellent features, but I can't choose. Gimme some dirt on these guns.

[Scotty386]

cockers are complicated machines and lots of things can go wrong very easily, its a gun that requires time and paitence. Once you know how to tame the beast they are a charm, but be warned they are not recommended for new players.

Mags are for the most part very simple and easy to maintain. If something goes wrong its easily fixed and with minimal effort you can have a great shooting marker for many years.

You may find that autocockers can shoot a bit further and possibly a bit faster, but when it comes down to accuracy my I would choose my mag in a heartbeat. The decision comes down to the type of player you are. This is all coming from a player and ref that has both a cocker and mag and couldn't take a trip to a field without either one.

if all else fails, get both!

[bunkermaster10]

Well I just sold my mag and got a nice shoctech cocker. I liked the mag a lot but I guess it just wasn't me. But I think I will be getting a emag here soon... Cockers are pretty easy to take care of, but not as easy as mags. The cockers trigger is a lot softer then the mags sorta heavy pull. But overall I honestly think you really have to go out and try both markers. I like both. And no cockers don't shot faster and farther! :rolleyes:

[kingbob]

Most players usually end up owning both at one point in time. The decision on which one is your first depends on how good of an airsmith you are or are willing to be.

Mags require little mantinance, oil before a day of playing, and occasionally change all the orings and you're done.

Cockers require more maintinance, timing and such. You can have an airsmith time and locktite your marker for between 50-70 USD every couple of months and you won't have to deal with it. Cocker Maintinance is easy when you learn, I recomend when your timing slips out of place to have your local airsmith retime and locktite it for you while you watch and observe. If you have any questions ask them they will usually answer.

As for the ANS cocker I wouldn't trust it as far as I could drop kick it. ANS products appear to be low quality to me. You will be just as well off with a stock '03 cocker and a barrel upgrade and as you learn more about it you can add on other performance upgrades.

http://www.air-powered.com for all your autococker questions and learning and such (if you take the autococker route)

to summerize:
If you're not to good with Airsmithery go with the RT-Pro it's a great, sturdy gun with a good RoF and good potential for upgrades that won't give you any problems.

If you're comfortable learning part of the art of the Airsmith you should go with the Cocker. It will provide simular performance as the RT-Pro with a different feel. The cocker can be tempermental at times but it's a great gun for the tinkerer.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Scotty386

You may find that autocockers can shoot a bit further and possibly a bit faster, but when it comes down to accuracy my I would choose my mag in a heartbeat.

Oh my. All guns shooting at 300fps are equally accurate, and get equal distance. Guns with tighter velocity control are generally more accurate. All guns shoot as fast as you pull the trigger... if not, it is malfunctioning. Although, some triggers are easier to rip on than others... like an RT trigger.

A stock '03 cocker is a pretty good deal for what you're getting. But yes, it is one of the most complicated markers out there. Get it working, don't futz with it... it'll be reliable.

Mags are very nice in that they are simple, durable, reliable, and have a built in regulator. Oh yeah, and Level 10!!! It has a pretty good degree of upgrade paths. Can toss in an XValve, change the frame, do some styling stuff with maybe a ULE body or whatever. Rock solid platform.

If you want a gun that you can fix and tweak all week... get a cocker. If you like the trigger, and the backblock gives you the willies... go for it. There's not a whole lot on a mag to mess with, that you should mess with. Pick up your mag and go... I like this approach myself.

[danheneise]

well from my own experience i dry fired my friends stock '03 cocker a month ago and liked it even though it needed timing but i just got my mag iin two days ago and love it much much better, it dosen't require any timing and just needs a some oil and occasional o-rings, no even though i havent shot either of these with paint, as far as dry firing can show i like the mag much better, and btw mags have 0 kickback as well as cockers.

[Woogie12]

03 stock cockers are really nice cockers for the money. My friend has one but is no longer stcok. He has upgraded just about everything on it. They are really nice but as everyone else stated they are a tinkerers gun unlike the mag which is very low maintenance. I say you shoot both at a proshop first and see which one you like better.

[jimmyjobob]

heres an idea....why not try shooting both and see what you like.


As for the ANS cocker I wouldn't trust it as far as I could drop kick it

just like he said, i agree completely.

my 2 cents though. my first cocker was an ans gen X. new out of the box it gave me nothing but problems. if you are going to get a cocker i wouldnt go ans....period.

[GatoLoco]

The two markers have so wildly different attributes, that a group of people on the internet cannot make the descion for you. If you mess with either one, it will mess with your day. I don't want to sound mean, because its an honest question, but the honest answer is the two markers are so radically different in every way, that you have to shoot both and decide.:)

[Mark Vandehey]

I would go with a mag just for the simple reason, it's easy to take care of, and when you're in the middle of fire fight and you need to make a quick fix, you can. I've been playing since 1988, and I've never seen a cocker that didnt' need some sort of tinkering, and when they go down, they go down. Have had many friends that have owned cockers and all are mag owners now.
Although, if you take the time and are willing to deal with the frustration that comes with owning a cocker, you will have a fine shooting gun when it's working. When they click, the really click well.

[Torbo]

how bout this: Shoot them both. Alot. and that should make up your mind. Although, i must say, the mag is more reliable, and faster. and they most definatly will shoot the same distance, and be accurate with a good paint/barrel match. So, its all up to you.

[jewie27]

X-Mag all the Way!!!!
No timing and leaky pain in the @$$ 3-way crap.

plus you get x-valve, LVL 10, ACE, and Electro and Hybrid modes. Spend more time playing and NO time fixing.

[paintbattler]

Cockers have like three times the amount of parts that the 'Mag has. However, I have heard that those Cockers are nice. I don't know from experience on the Cocker, but I know my 'Mag was a good machine. Just make sure you got LvL 10 installed on the 'Mag or you will have hell to pay.

[Hemorrhage]

I own both as well. My mag was no fun when I wasn't playing and I wanted something to tinker with. Let me tell you the feeling you get after having timed a cocker then going out and it shooting perfectly. It really feels like YOUR cocker. Like you made it this way. My mag is well, everyone's functions like mine. It's a mag. It'll work everytime all the time without fail. I prefer to tinker...Weekend warrior..Paintball=life...mag..cocker..

[68magOwner]

ok, ive owned 2 cockers, and 2 mags, i personally would choose a mag any day,

the cockers were by all means great markers, but the back block dosent allow for extremely tight play (not a big deal for most, but i got smacked in the face by back blocks alot) the triggers are nice, i can definately out shoot a classic valved mag with one, and there not THAT difficult to maintain.

Both my mags always worked great, never chopped a single ball (lvl 10, did chop with cockers) were rediculiously easy to maintain, classic valved was fast-ish, but my RT ripps. mags are very small, and not extremely heavy (ULE can do wonders, make mags one of the lighter markers out there)

umm, probably not a very thourugh post, im strangely tired for how early/late it is, but watever, get the mag, you wolnt be sorry

[punkncat]

I actually just traded a GenX3 for an RTP.
Was it because the mag is better? NO

I really enjoyed my cocker.Great marker , super reliable.Shot well , and NEVER gave me a single problem.
The "complexity" that people speak of is nothing.Once you take a few minutes to learn about the marker and the order in which to time it , its really nothing.Not as simple as a Mag , but not rocket science either.

A mag is a bit more compact than a standard cocker.The mag is also lighter , unless you consider a Dye Ultralight or an equvalent.

Many fields are banning RTP's.Its really pretty stupid considering that most "E" class markers are just as fast and faster.Maybe this trend will turn around, but several of the fields I play at required permission to play with it.Granted as I spend mucho bucks there....

The best suggestion I can give you is to pick both up and take into account the feel and weight.Go from there.

[punkncat]

Originally posted by kingbob
Most players usually end up owning both at one point in time. The decision on which one is your first depends on how good of an airsmith you are or are willing to be.

Mags require little mantinance, oil before a day of playing, and occasionally change all the orings and you're done.

Cockers require more maintinance, timing and such. You can have an airsmith time and locktite your marker for between 50-70 USD every couple of months and you won't have to deal with it. Cocker Maintinance is easy when you learn, I recomend when your timing slips out of place to have your local airsmith retime and locktite it for you while you watch and observe. If you have any questions ask them they will usually answer.

As for the ANS cocker I wouldn't trust it as far as I could drop kick it. ANS products appear to be low quality to me. You will be just as well off with a stock '03 cocker and a barrel upgrade and as you learn more about it you can add on other performance upgrades.

http://www.air-powered.com for all your autococker questions and learning and such (if you take the autococker route)

to summerize:
If you're not to good with Airsmithery go with the RT-Pro it's a great, sturdy gun with a good RoF and good potential for upgrades that won't give you any problems.

If you're comfortable learning part of the art of the Airsmith you should go with the Cocker. It will provide simular performance as the RT-Pro with a different feel. The cocker can be tempermental at times but it's a great gun for the tinkerer.

You have obviously never owned an ANS product.
You will not find a cocker at a better value than the Gen X series.Wonderful product and tremendous customer service.

I owned mine for over a year.I played with it every weekend on the speedball field and in the woods.It never broke, never chopped a ball.
Worked every single time I played with it.
I cannot say that about any other marker I have owned (including Spyder,Bushy,Automag) other than my daughters Tippmann.It always works..lol.

[Low]

There is no reason for ANY field to ban an RTP. Its rediculous, as long as they check to see if you can sweetspot the trigger or not. If you can sweetspot it, they make you turn the input pressure down. I've never heard of this problem anywhere. Maybe it is just in your area?

[AkumA]

my sencond gun was a cocker.

i bought it off the wall from a paintball field when my spyder was choping balls, and after 3 years of playing i decided to upgrade that day. not knowing how to even set the velocity on a cocker, i still bought it. it was awsome. with the crumy old school jjperfromance brass barrel, it shot darts. timing the cocker was really cheap around here, since it only cost $10. it never really went out of wack unless i messed with something "if it aint broke, don't fix it!!. after a year with it, i decided to learn how to time it, its freaking EASY!! just get a good site on timing, full tank of air, and an evening to yourself. walah. i can time a very untimed cocker in around 15-20 mins tops. also, since cockers are getting popular now, you can charge people at the field a small cost or some paint for timing up their guns.

after awhile, i bought a mag.

it seems that the most popular mod is the lvl10 bolt, since it "stops" on paint. well a good airsmith should get those installed with no problem, guess again. i had a retro valve that i wanted a lvl10 added onto it. sure enough, he, nor 3 other airsmiths could not tune it correctly (like shown in the vid where it stops on a rolled up dollar bill). its been 3 months of switching springs, spacers, ect. im letting them try on my classic valve, since i don't care about shooting fast anymore. the only upkeep with mags is lube and orings (maybe nubins). one big stump is matching springs and spacers. its almost like timing a cocker with a spoon and fork.

it really depend on what you want. im more of a "tinkerer", so i really like the cocker, since theres SOO much stuff you can do with them. but i really like the mag for playing the snake, or up front since its so small (i really don't give a rats *** how light my pb marker is). so its your decision.

[jewie27]

Automags for reliablility, Simplicity, and better looks.

[Ginjiroku]

I wouldn't get a ANS cocker get a WGP or Shocktech. if you get a cocker

[jewie27]

Originally posted by Hemorrhage
Let me tell you the feeling you get after having timed a cocker then going out and it shooting perfectly.

Note: He has to set the timing before it works. Just get a X-Valved 'Mag and it will shoot right out of the box. No fiddling required.

*EDIT* Don't cuss here, or I will make your day a bad one. Army

[magn00b]

Hey,

im on here trying to figure out whats wrong with my friends classic.. :(

both our guns seemed to screw up at the same time.. odd..

lol i have a 2002 wgp cocker, with a 2003 wgp hinge, a new front block of some sort (to be honest ive forgotten what name it was.. got it brand spankin new off ebay a/b half a year ago), and an orracle bolt. this is all the stuff i have on my gun.. rather then a not so hot zero gravity barrel, and a pretty nice.. richochet (< i know i butchered the spelling..

looking at my friends gun here, (i dont know too terribly much about names and such for mags.. but ill try my best), hes got a 68 automag classic, it has an eclipse kit on it,an expansion chamber for c02, a red dot site, a dye ultralite, some fancy drop forward, and sorry, but im not 100% sure what he has nonstock inside of it.

his right now, is leaking air bad out of the back of it (look for the post "bad airleak classic" or something, that explains it.

mine, the timing has slipped...

my autococker has been faithful, the only time that its really messed up before, was when the cocking rod became unscrewed, and i didnt know it.. ofcourse after u screw that sob back in, it works again..

this is the first time my timing has slipped, after owning it for about 4/5 of a year.. (not too terribly long i know..)

stephan, my friend, has had his mag for a lil over a year now, and this is just about the only problem too

rather then just a few minor air problems.. (leaking out of different places).

when we go to some field to play, i actually find him at the bench tweaking his mag more then i do my cocker, but its all been a related problem with his.

they both shoot about the same

with all the addons i got on mine, mine can shoot faster, his is for the most part more accurate, but not so much that it really makes an extreme differance.

I am not really a big mag person, and personally not a big cocker person, but i really liked this one when i saw it, and it has treated me well.

all i can say is, to try both of them out (go to a local paintball store, they'll more then likely let you try them both out behind the building

just depends on the type of person you are man..

good luck, and i hope this was a help

[Toto]

I bought my Automag Classic 68 about 4 years ago!!!
Since i bought it i only had one problem, i use my mag with a remote setup and i install a slide chek, whit the slide chek the mag was having terribles shootdown and the bolt start to make horrible sounds when i was doing fast shooting, i remove the slidechek and the problem was resolved

The only things that i bought to upgrade my mag are the followin
Aci SubZero 6 stage xpansion kit (cames with the vertical adapter hoses etc etc)
Smart Parts BigDaddy 16 inches barrel
T-Stock gas throug and a remote line

i am running the gun with this configuration all these years and id never had a problem with it, a few yeras ago i bought a rapair kit just to be on the safe side in case my mag went down, but these never happend.

A friendo of mine owns a coker, a few times i play with that evil machine!!!! and it was great!!!! i am thinking in buying a cocker in the next days, its a great gun if you like to play with the configurations that you can made to the gun.

For me both guns are great, the only diference is that the Autococker has more Aftermarket parts than the Mag, and more popular because all the big teams use them.

saludos
Toto

[Low]

You seem rather moved to the cocker side of the spectrum by your friends cocker. I have a question for ya...Have you ever shot a mag w/ intelliframe, rt/x valve, and ule body? It is simply amazing. The rt action, the speed, the looks, how light it is... I'm not sayings its better than a cocker.. but in my oppinion it is :).... Most people that shoot one of these fall in love real quick!

[Dayspring]

Put it to you this way...

RTP is the fastest mechanical marker in the industry.

The cocker isn't. Don't kid yourself. There's too much moving mass. (back block, ram, cocking rod, hammer, bolt, bolt pin. Need I go on?)

You can replace EVERY single part on a Cocker. You can easily spend more $ on upgrades than you spent on the gun in the first place.

The only real upside I see to cockers (and yes, I have owned one) is the efficiency.

[Toto]

Originally posted by Low
You seem rather moved to the cocker side of the spectrum by your friends cocker. I have a question for ya...Have you ever shot a mag w/ intelliframe, rt/x valve, and ule body? It is simply amazing. The rt action, the speed, the looks, how light it is... I'm not sayings its better than a cocker.. but in my oppinion it is :).... Most people that shoot one of these fall in love real quick!
No, because here in Argentina we dont have HPA
The only mags here are Classics, and there are only 4 or 5 mags in the ehole country

I didnt sayd that because i am gioing to buy a cocker i am going to forget about my Mag!!!!I love my mag and i think that is one of the best markers that i ever used, but i also like the cocker!!!

I am not talking about ROF velocity, but the cocker is used in more teams than the Mag

Saludos
Toto

[magn00b]

RTP is the fastest mechanical marker in the industry.

when i stated above about the speed of my cocker vr.s his mag, i ment stock, i just very recently have upgraded all the parts.

im pretty sure his mag is stock on inside, maybe a few extra parts... but right out of the box, the cocker was plenty faster, and now, the only thing i have on it that can really make that much of a difference in speed is the hinge.

but who needs unbelievable speed anyway?

it wont help u that much in a game.. so im not gonna flaunt that my cocker is faster then my friends mag is.. i dont really care.. on the field im conservative, my cocker is plenty accurate with the upgrades i have put on it.

all the jokers out on the feild who feel they hafta shoot insane amount of balls per second can if they want.. ill get the last laugh on the way to the bank..

[WarInTheWoods]

really what it comes down to between choosing either a mag or a cocker is how you play paintball. i own a 68 automag and would never trade it for a cocker. my brother owns a cocker and would never trade a mag. i like the simple design of the mag and though my mag is not flashy all chromed out like my brothers mag i like it. my brother on the other hand likes being flashy even in woods ball with his cocker all bright and chromed out. he likes the complexed cocker i like the simple mag. my brother loves tinkering for hours on his gun the get it perfect, i like the fact that in 5 minutes i can fix just about anything on my mag. try them both out. and whatever feels the best get it no matter if you won't fit in with a group. get what feels best.

[albert83]

if i could choose between the best cocker

-Race Gun Half-block

and the best mag

-x-Mag

i would choose the cocker!

why?
both fire faster than you will ever be able to pull the trigger both are small and light but the half block is MUCH MUCH more gas efficient.

[bokraham]

definitly go with a mag. Mags are much simpiler, and will last much longer. The idea behind a cocker is that it is more accurate, however the barrel is really the only thing that determines the accuracy. Don't get caught up in the cocker hype, it is just paying more for more breakage.

[t337]

ok, i currently have 2 ebladed cockers.

the first thing you must know about cockers, they are radically finicky. simple fix...E-BLADE it.

the blade will automatically time the gun and it has a board that allows for almost infinate settings.

I can get 19 bps with my cocker and it has never given me one problem, ever.

for 600$+ you can have a cocker with a blade and never worry about the timing.

but, if you want a lighter, tighter, smaller gun...then x or e-mag is a solid choice.

im currently trying to get my hands on a nice e or x mag...gotta have one of each! after all, they are some of the best guns ever made and not long ago, where THE ONLY GUNS TO HAVE!

-t

[jewie27]

ok, i currently have 2 ebladed cockers.

the first thing you must know about cockers, they are radically finicky. simple fix...E-BLADE it.

the blade will automatically time the gun and it has a board that allows for almost infinate settings.

I can get 19 bps with my cocker and it has never given me one problem, ever.

for 600$+ you can have a cocker with a blade and never worry about the timing.

but, if you want a lighter, tighter, smaller gun...then x or e-mag is a solid choice.

im currently trying to get my hands on a nice e or x mag...gotta have one of each! after all, they are some of the best guns ever made and not long ago, where THE ONLY GUNS TO HAVE!

-t

My X-Valve can shoot faster than any cocker; without batteries. (Rapid fire kicks arse)

[FSU_Paintball]

I'd just like to point out that Scotty is the first person I've *ever* heard to use the accuracy argument in favor of mags and against cockers :)

They're completely different guns. If you're a new-ish player, go with the mag unless you're mechanically inclined. I've owned 2 mags and 2 cockers, and I personally prefer cockers, but to each his own. Cockers are great if you understand how they work, but they're a little more fritzy than mags.

And I'd stay away from a GX3 and actually find a cocker worth owning (think Free-Flow, Works, Evolution, or an e-cocker)

[Vanced]

In all reality it is just a matter of opinion ... This debate has been festering non-stop for years now...

I have shot and been shot with both ... I am just a Mag guy ... that is why I own four... but hey never know I may get a cocker just to really tinker again... asking yourself do you want and have the time to play with your gun as much as you play the game is often the best advice given in this debate ? Both guns if set up properly will give similar performance with different pros and cons...

Most of the points here are valid ... But they left out what may be the most important question in this debate ?

Bottom line... Do you like the Cocker Elves or the Mag Gnomes better ?