Move over RT! new speed KING!!

[brett]

I caught this on pbnation and wanted some other people here to test the cps on it. I got a perfect 30cps matching what jack&coke did with the x-valve!

AKA and AGD the KINGS OF SPEED!


http://www.buysplat.com/files/101_0180.AVI

actual download^^^^^

[Ov3rmind]

Eat that Viking haters!!!

[lack of grace]

that is some crazy bounce

[Ov3rmind]

I think it's FA.

[Marek]

Is that just a regular stock Viking? Man, that is crazy. Must get money soon to get one.

[ZAust]

wow, i am SO getting a viking now. that is some crazy shiat.

[brett]

its not FA. He programmed his board to the lowest debounce setting possible, of course it did help to have a razor trigger!

[ICOM]

Originally posted by ZAust
wow, i am SO getting a viking now. that is some crazy shiat.
People like guns now since they shoot fast? ummm

Looks like FA to me

[Fanatic]

i can make my spyder do that......i just need a tank thats almost out of air

[lack of grace]

Of course when a gun threatens to cycle just as fast as your precious mag you are gonna find any stupid answer you can to defend it....

Its not full auto is a was switch and razor trigger with no spring and the debouce set to 1 millisecond

[lack of grace]

Originally posted by ICOM

People like guns now since they shoot fast? ummm

Looks like FA to me

why did you pay as much as you did for your xmag?

[minnimag]

Speaking from a non-bias point of veiw cause i dont own an e-mag/x-mag and i dont care if another gun can shoot as fast or faster then one. I just dont see the kids fingers moving at all so it looks like FA to me. But if someone wants to explain what he did cause i dont understand what youre saying about debounce etc etc then ide be interested

[Steelrat]

Don't jump to conclusions. Zaust has shot my Viking on several occasions, and like it very much. Hearing one rip is just frosting on the cake.

[magmonkey]

Props to aka the viking and excals with the was board are REALY REALY fast ... and a nice shooting marker to boot

[lack of grace]

Originally posted by minnimag
Speaking from a non-bias point of veiw cause i dont own an e-mag/x-mag and i dont care if another gun can shoot as fast or faster then one. I just dont see the kids fingers moving at all so it looks like FA to me. But if someone wants to explain what he did cause i dont understand what youre saying about debounce etc etc then ide be interested

He has 25 gram switch which the trigger actuates...he also has a really light trigger and a extreme soft trig spring so he doesnt get to strong of a return. He set it up to bounce im sure.


Also (not to you minnimag), why would it matter if it was full auto....The point is the marker can cycle as fast as youve seen a mag cycle. The only thing the video points out is that vikings are very fast. Thats why it was made.

[minnimag]

huh, sounds pretty cool and i dont dispute it because when i was shopping around for a new gun i shot a few electros, one was an impulse with a very sweet trigger job. It seemed like i barely had to move my fingers to get it to fire. thanks for explaining

edit- spelling

[brett]

nobody has double checked the cps yet?!

[Benfica4ever]

Damnit. i cant see it i can only hear....:(

[FooTemps]

it really looks like fa, there is no way you can get a bounce string like that from holding the trigger, seen a burst of quick shots from bouncing but not a long string like that. No way, it has to be full auto. just wanted to put in my opinion

[Prodavl]

hmmmmmmmmm i cant see it!!!:mad:

[No sKiLLz]

Oooh, aaahh. Now put some paint through it and see what happens.:rolleyes:

[lack of grace]

Originally posted by FooTemps
it really looks like fa, there is no way you can get a bounce string like that from holding the trigger, seen a burst of quick shots from bouncing but not a long string like that. No way, it has to be full auto. just wanted to put in my opinion

its clearly bounce.....as you can see he had to try to bounce it.

[Kaiser Bob]

Originally posted by FooTemps
it really looks like fa, there is no way you can get a bounce string like that from holding the trigger, seen a burst of quick shots from bouncing but not a long string like that. No way, it has to be full auto. just wanted to put in my opinion

you need to get out and play with more high end electros :)

[Jon/xpm]

correct me if im wrong on this
but i know for sure thats a was board
i know was products dont have the FA
option at all so...
BOUNCE RULES!

Just a regular viking
with was products...

Oh on a side note if he had the scm
he could probably shoot more bps...

[Grasshopper]

That thing is awsome. I like how it sounds, too :)

[SomebodySomeoneRTPcf]

cps?

[AlabamaMan]

Originally posted by FooTemps
it really looks like fa, there is no way you can get a bounce string like that from holding the trigger, seen a burst of quick shots from bouncing but not a long string like that. No way, it has to be full auto. just wanted to put in my opinion

I watched a guy dump a whole eggo with an E-cocker, from what i could see through the net (he was right on the other side) His finger only moved once. Everyone knows there is no FA on an E-blade. It was bounce all the way.

[Off Center]

It sounds like the only thing operating is the ram. How would firing (i.e. depleting the volume of pressurized air behind the valve) affect the cycle rate? Not trying to rip on anyone - just want a little more info. Looks pretty sweet.

On another note, if that is just the ram operating, that is ludicrous debounce. The marker should be plaid.

Out of curiosity, anyone know what type of ram the viking uses, and possibly where one could obtain the specifications for one?

[Ov3rmind]

Originally posted by Off Center
It sounds like the only thing operating is the ram. How would firing (i.e. depleting the volume of pressurized air behind the valve) affect the cycle rate? Not trying to rip on anyone - just want a little more info. Looks pretty sweet.

On another note, if that is just the ram operating, that is ludicrous debounce. The marker should be plaid.
How could the ram be the only thing operating if you're hearing shots and seeing the bolt move? All the mechanics in the gun would have to be operating.

[Off Center]

If my general knowledge of electropneumatic markers is correct, the ram operates to strike a poppet valve. The poppet valve must be struck with a certain amount of force to open and send air through the bolt to act on the paintball (or go down the barrel unhindered). The ram can still move back and forth, without enough force to activate the poppet valve if the LPR is set low enough. This knowledge is based on the workings of a bushmaster BKO. However, from what of I have seen from other stacked tube electros, they operate on a similar concept. If this is not the case with the viking, please correct me.

[Ov3rmind]

Originally posted by Off Center
If my general knowledge of electropneumatic markers is correct, the ram operates to strike a poppet valve. The poppet valve must be struck with a certain amount of force to open and send air through the bolt to act on the paintball (or go down the barrel unhindered). The ram can still move back and forth, without enough force to activate the poppet valve if the LPR is set low enough. This knowledge is based on the workings of a bushmaster BKO. However, from what of I have seen from other stacked tube electros, they operate on a similar concept. If this is not the case with the viking, please correct me.
You are correct in one part, it works the same way. Unfortunately, if what you suggested was true, then it wouldn't make too mush sense. A gun based around this design will cycle slower when using a lower cycling pressure, and faster when using a higher one. So to make it cycle as fast as possible, turning the LPR down would make no sense at all.

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by brett
nobody has double checked the cps yet?!

It's right around 30cps.

I think J&C actually got around 34max.

Also, I don't think it's actually shooting any air,if you look at the end of the vid you can just see that it has a barrel condom on and that straps are not even moving or vibrating or anything.If I do the with a Mag or something my barrel condom pretty much goes nuts.It's hard to be sure but thats' what it looks like,so it MAY not be fully cycling and/or actually opening the valve.


Jay.

[P4ULuk]

On the Viking the bolt can be turned around, the marker still cycle's completely except the air isn't entering the bolt inlet. This is most likely the case here hence the barrel condom not moving.

Paul
:)

[lack of grace]

Originally posted by P4ULuk
On the Viking the bolt can be turned around, the marker still cycle's completely except the air isn't entering the bolt inlet. This is most likely the case here hence the barrel condom not moving.

Paul
:)

This is also why it is not as loud...

[LittlePaintballBoy]

Originally posted by SomebodySomeoneRTPcf
cps?

Cycles Per Second. retro valve mags were the record holders, but i think we have competition now;) Icom, zachs been wanting a viking for a while now, seeing one rip is just the (trying to think of something ryan didnt say) poopoo on the platter?

[Off Center]

Originally posted by Ov3rmind

You are correct in one part, it works the same way. Unfortunately, if what you suggested was true, then it wouldn't make too mush sense. A gun based around this design will cycle slower when using a lower cycling pressure, and faster when using a higher one. So to make it cycle as fast as possible, turning the LPR down would make no sense at all.

Not saying that it would make sense to turn down the LPR to that extent. Just trying to figure out why it doesn't sound like the marker is firing.
Also, not sure if turning down the LPR to the point where the ram is not activating the poppet valve would slow down cycle speed. Think of the LPR as a dam holding back a reservoir of fluid and the ram as a tiny stream of that fluid. If the stream doesn't need to be very big, the damn will more readily supply the fluid necessary for that stream (for the ram). On the other hand, if the stream needs to be very big (when the LPR is supplying the ram with enough pressure to activate the poppet valve) then the dam will have greater difficulty providing enough fluid for the stream - more so since the dam would have to put out an even greater volume to a river (the amount of fluid lost down the barrel). Turning down the LPR in this sense might even speed up the ram's cycling speed. Again, this is all based on conjecture, and my knowledge of fluid mechanics is not what I would like it to be, but this seems like what's going on to me. I can't think of any other reason why it sounds like only the ram is being activated and not the poppet valve.

[Jack & Coke]

I'm at work right now so I can't view the video.

If no one does a ROF analysis by tonight, I'll take a crack at it... :)

[SomebodySomeoneRTPcf]

omg what is ROF? i should know these but I just don't. Anyways what does cps do anyway? is it how fas it recharges?

[JEDI]

I don't understand all the doubt. I can understand the scientific questioning and debate, but why all the immediate doubt. The trigger is bouncing, not FA, the bolt is obviously upside down. The gun seems to be cycling. Someone posts an Emag doing the same thing, and all you here is "Wow, thats fast."

[Twon]

Very interesting, now that's something I can't do on my X-Mag. Isn't bounce illegal in tournament though?

Twon

[Abermose]

Yes it is bounce. The guy has the debounce set on 1 on the WAS board. Here is a link to the guy talking about it:

http://www.pbreview.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=166068

I have a WASed Viking with the stock blade trigger (fat one),stock switch, and stock trigger spring and when I set debounce to 1, I can get it to bounce without any air even hooked to the gun.

[GT]

I shot an excal a few weeks ago, very nice gun. I can only assume that a vik is equal in quality. I am really considering one instead of the current fold of cokie cutter electros.

2k+ shots out of a 68/4500
cheap eyes
was board
lifetime warrenty
AGD like warrenty and service
low mantience and high reliability

[Off Center]

Originally posted by JEDI
I don't understand all the doubt. I can understand the scientific questioning and debate, but why all the immediate doubt. The trigger is bouncing, not FA, the bolt is obviously upside down. The gun seems to be cycling. Someone posts an Emag doing the same thing, and all you here is "Wow, thats fast."

I think that the primary difference (aside from this being a biased forum) is that, due to design, each cycle of the mag constitutes one firing cycle, whereas one cycle from a stacked tube electro does not necessarily mean the same thing. As pointed out earlier, the ram on a stacked tube electro can cycle without actually causing the marker to fire. Because of the mag's blow forward design, each cycle includes a period where the marker actually dumps its pressurized chamber into a space where a ball would be. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that each ball would attain the desired velocity, but it does mean that each ball would exit the barrel.
Personally, I question so that if the marker (i.e. the vikikng) is performing in a manner in which I would like one of my markers to perform, I can possible replicate the effect.

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by JEDI
I don't understand all the doubt. I can understand the scientific questioning and debate, but why all the immediate doubt. The trigger is bouncing, not FA, the bolt is obviously upside down. The gun seems to be cycling. Someone posts an Emag doing the same thing, and all you here is "Wow, thats fast."

No doubt, I've checked it and it's right around 30cps.

As far as Bouncing,probably but not absolutely.And of course that's irrelevant anyway 'cause either is an illegal setup.

As far as the bolt,obviously? I can't say that,can you? I know it's not shooting air,could be the bolt except why would you do that.Could be not fully cyclling,I can't tell from that vid.Who could?

As for a Mag,when Jack and Coke posted his FA Mag half of the posters said it was either stupid or useless or both.And many questions as to how it was done.So you have a similar response here.

Don't sweat it.It's no biggie either way.

Jay.

[Abermose]

If you guys would read the link I posted to pbreview, it would answer some of your questions:

Yes, it is bounce, not full auto. WAS boards dont have modes and they let you control the debounce. He has the debounce setting to 1 (the lowest).

Yes, the bolt is in backwards. People put the bolt in backwards when breaking in their viking. It conserves air and makes the gun a lot quiter because the passage of air normally used to propell the ball is blocked by the bolt.

[rehme]

Originally posted by P4ULuk
On the Viking the bolt can be turned around, the marker still cycle's completely except the air isn't entering the bolt inlet. This is most likely the case here hence the barrel condom not moving.

Paul
:)

yes that is what he probably did you can get a crap load of shots with the bolt turned around.

the viking are really fast one of my teamates can out shoot his halo he had a chrono see how fast he shot it was 19 bps so the halo was a bit slow and he was a weird angle to shoot the gun.

i am thinking about getting one of these bad boys also.

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by RRfireblade




Don't sweat it.It's no biggie either way.

Jay.

[CpSuPeRkId]

to all you doubters saying you dont really know if its fully shooting with a stacked tube electropneumatic design: get a life and stop doubting everything that isnt a mag. i own a half milled viking w/ all the goodies including a was board. it is indeed shooting past 30bps. mine does the same exact thing with debounce on 1. it is truly scary. i can tell you right now it will fully cycle and shoot if the bolt isnt turned around at that speed. i have a razorblade trigger and stock switch and when i turn my debounce on 1 in sim mode(unlimited bps dryfiring), it shoots past 30bps and you can hear it shooting the whole time, no skips. i dont know what else to say. vikings ARE that fast and they do fully cycle and shoot at that speed. a halo b doesnt have crap on this gun.... lol. with debounce on 1 while shooting around 20-24bps you can totally tell that the halo b is maxed out and if it werent for the halo b it would be shooting even faster. as for debounce all together..... i dont use 1 on a normal basis. its just too damn fast. plus you cant even pull the trigger without it shootin like 5 times. i use debounce 12 and get no bounce and i can still shoot past 18 like nothing. some of you might still think thats bs with no bounce, but you would be surprised at how fast you can shoot when you actually get a gun with only the hopper restricting your rof and not the gun.

[Off Center]

Originally posted by CpSuPeRkId
to all you doubters saying you dont really know if its fully shooting with a stacked tube electropneumatic design: get a life and stop doubting everything that isnt a mag.

I'm simply trying to figure out what's going on in the vid. It does not SOUND like the marker is firing with each cycle. Several members have suggested reasons why this might be and, as yet, no one has offered an explanation contrary to those reasons.
I would love it if the marker was actually cycling at this rate. I would love it even more if I could see the velocity of each ball in a string of shots at that rate of fire. I'm studying mech. eng. and, from a design standpoint, it would be interesting to study specifically what makes the marker so fast, if indeed it is. As I've invited anyone to do in each previous post, please, give some weight to the argument that the marker is firing at that rate, rather than telling those of us trying to ascertain the truth to get a life.
Further, I have seen the mag firing at 25bps, but I have not seen this over a chronograph, so, until I see the data, I'm not going to accept on blind faith that the mag can do this without shootdown. I would love to have a talk with Tom regarding the design principles used in the Xvalve, so I could understand why he says it can recharge fast enough to fire at 26bps without shootdown.

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by CpSuPeRkId


...i own a half milled viking w/ all the goodies including a was board. it is indeed shooting past 30bps...



30 BALLS per second?

http://www.mikebrowne.com/blog/media/1/20021017-o-tay.jpg

:rolleyes:http://www.automags.org/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif

[50 cal]

Will it actually shoot p-balls that fast though? Stick a hopper on it and get back to us.

Faster isn't better.

[CpSuPeRkId]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke


30 BALLS per second?

http://www.mikebrowne.com/blog/media/1/20021017-o-tay.jpg

:rolleyes:http://www.automags.org/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif woops, i meant cps.... im an idiot. sorry about that. as for bps, im not sure but i do know that without eyes on even a halo b cant keep up and you chop. with eyes on it shoots as fast as the halo b can feed.

off center- i see where you are coming from. im just stating that a viking can cycle past 30bps. that vid doesnt sound right but i think its becuase the bolt was in backwards. a normal viking can fully cycle and shoot past 30bps, meaning the bolt will go forward, hammer will hit the valve and air will be released down the barrel, then the bolt will retract..... over 30 times a sec. i too am interested to see each shot over a chrono because i dont know if shootdown would be present or not. sorry if i came across as rude to anybody who was wanting proof but it just seemed like you guys were defending mags and were denying that any gun can come close to an rt mags speed.

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by CpSuPeRkId


...it just seemed like you guys were defending mags and were denying that any gun can come close to an rt mags speed...



Claims related to mags can be proven (i.e. test data, video recordings, etc.)

Unproven claims, which are questionable (i.e. 30 BALLS per sec), will be challenged.

The cycling speed of the viking represented in the video of this thread has no integrity (i.e. if the gun had a ball in the breech, would it fire out of the barrel at normal speed? This video clip = no), and therefore is discounted and questioned.

I have absolutely no doubt that the viking could CYCLE at a rate of 30+ CPS.

I have absolute doubt that the viking (or any gun) could SHOOT PAINT at a rate of 30+ BPS.

[DWill]

You have to ask yourself if it can cycle at 30 cps WITHOUT shootdown the RT valve :) then I will be a viking fan for life (seriously)

[Steelrat]

How can we find that out? Im willing to give it a try if someone tells me how to measure it.

[lack of grace]

Show me any video of a mag shooting 30 balls per second and not just cycling....... bet you cant...


Originally posted by Jack & Coke


Claims related to mags can be proven (i.e. test data, video recordings, etc.)

Unproven claims, which are questionable (i.e. 30 BALLS per sec), will be challenged.

The cycling speed of the viking represented in the video of this thread has no integrity (i.e. if the gun had a ball in the breech, would it fire out of the barrel at normal speed? This video clip = no), and therefore is discounted and questioned.

I have absolutely no doubt that the viking could CYCLE at a rate of 30+ CPS.

I have absolute doubt that the viking (or any gun) could SHOOT PAINT at a rate of 30+ BPS.

[Steelrat]

Well Im betting we can show the Viking shooting as fast as a Halo B can feed em, but how can we prove no shootdown? By showing the trajectory of the balls?

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by lack of grace
Show me any video of a mag shooting 30 balls per second and not just cycling....... bet you cant...



Sheeeeesh....

Where did you get the idea that a mag can shoot 30 BPS? Let alone a video of it??

You might want to try re-reading the last sentence of what I wrote in the quote you referenced.

If you can figure it out, you just may get an idea of how I feel about ANY claims of ANY guns shooting 30+BPS.

To avoid further social blunders like this in the future, try this 3 step program:

Step 1. Read
Step 2. Think
Step 3. Post

:rolleyes:http://www.automags.org/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif

[Alux]

Jack & Coke does it again lol ;)

I learn a bit more from reading this guys posts.

[Marek]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
Step 1. Read
Step 2. Think
Step 3. Post

So much easier than my 12 step program. I mean, um....

How bout them Falcons?

[Jack & Coke]

Thanks for the nice words Alux, but really, I'm not trying to kick the guy down.

My response to log may have come off a little harsh... :eek:

Just because I doubt anyone's claim that their gun can shoot 30 BPS, doesn't mean a mag can do it!

People need to stop over-protecting their pride, just because the performance hype of the gun they shoot is challenged.

I'm done... it's late.:)

[lack of grace]

well....there is where it came from

said by jack and coke "Claims related to mags can be proven (i.e. test data, video recordings, etc.)"

ie - 30+ cps without dropoff.....

[Kid_A]

well....there is where it came from

said by jack and coke "Claims related to mags can be proven (i.e. test data, video recordings, etc.)"

ie - 30+ cps without dropoff.....

that is very different from...


Show me any video of a mag shooting 30 balls per second and not just cycling....... bet you cant...

I really like Jack & Coke :) He makes that dirty feeling of guilt from visiting this forum so damn much take a back seat to all of the neat stuff I can learn from users like himself.

[lack of grace]

Originally posted by Kid_A


that is very different from...



I really like Jack & Coke :) He makes that dirty feeling of guilt from visiting this forum so damn much take a back seat to all of the neat stuff I can learn from users like himself.

You make no sense.

[ubooze]

I didn't get a chance to see that video.... so I don't know if its really that fast. BUT, I do own a Viking.

Its still capped at 13 BPS but once I get the eyes I will be able to try to get the crazy CPS. Right now, I do the exact same thing that guy does(according to his thread) except that I balance the gun on my thumb behind the frame and hold the trigger in a certain location. The gun then starts to act as if it were in full-auto but actually is using kick to fire the next shot. I haven't tried this with paint, but I think we can find the max CPS through this process..... I'm just waiting for eyes.

EDIT: sorry for raising the dead.... I just noticed I posted in the wrong thread... doh
I will try to make a video when I have the chance, but would need someone to help me with hosting it....

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by lack of grace
Of course when a gun threatens to cycle just as fast as your precious mag you are gonna find any stupid answer you can to defend it....

Its not full auto is a was switch and razor trigger with no spring and the debouce set to 1 millisecond
Yup, AO zombie syndrome............
*EDIT* Oops, didn't realize how old this is.

[Kaiser Bob]

I would be happy to set up my viking to do this experiment with balls, at 30bps i will probably chop some paint, but what are ya gonna do? :) Ill put up a video maybe tomorrow.

[cledford]

The thing that hasn't been clearly stated (from what I read) is that the RT is the speed king because it has shot up 24 BPS without shootdown. After seeing Tom's gun dyno and various none RT valved markers recharge - there is no conventional marker produced that can shoot as fast, CONSISTENTLY. These other markers will begin to beat down - it's the nature of their design. Who cares how fast it's shooting if youR balls are dropping off?

-Calvin

[ZAust]

does anyone still have this video up somehwhere? i remember seeing it before, but the link no longer works. :(