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Army
08-17-2003, 01:24 AM
Neal Boortz is a Texas lawyer, and A&M graduate. He wrote this speech to give to the class of 2003 at Texas A&M during which he was to recieve an honorary degree. He never gave the speech, and has regretted it since.

Here it is, and words could not have more truth and meaning than these:

Neal Boortz Commencement Address:

I am honored by the invitation to address you on this august occasion. It's about time. Be warned, however, that I am not here to impress you; you'll have enough smoke blown your way today. And you can bet your tasselsI'm not here to impress the faculty and administration.

You may not like much of what I have to say, and that's fine. You will remember it though. Especially after about 10 years out there in the real world. This, it goes without saying, does not apply to those of you who will seek your careers and your fortunes as government employees.

This gowned gaggle behind me is your faculty. You've heard the old saying that those who can - do. Those who can't - teach. That sounds deliciously insensitive. But there is often raw truth in insensitivity, just as you often find feel-good falsehoods and lies in compassion. Say good-bye to your faculty because now you are getting ready to go out there and do. These folks behind me are going to stay right here and teach.

By the way, just because you are leaving this place with a diploma doesn't mean the learning is over. When an FAA flight examiner handed me my private pilot's license many years ago, he said, 'Here, this is your ticket to learn.' The same can be said for your diploma. Believe me, the learning has just begun.

Now, I realize that most of you consider yourselves Liberals. In fact, you are probably very proud of your liberal views. You care so much. You feel so much. You want to help so much. After all, you're a compassionate and caring person, aren't you now? Well, isn't that just so extraordinarily special. Now, at this age, is as good a time as any to be a Liberal; as good a time as any to know absolutely everything. You have plenty of time, starting tomorrow, for the truth to set in. Over the next few years, as you begin to feel the cold breath of reality down your neck, things are going to start changing pretty fast .. including your own assessment of just how much you really know.

So here are the first assignments for your initial class in reality: Pay attention to the news, read newspapers, and listen to the words and phrases that proud Liberals use to promote their causes. Then compare the words of the left to the words and phrases you hear from those evil, heartless, greedy conservatives. From the Left you will hear "I feel." From the Right you will hear "I think." From the Liberals you will hear references to groups --The Blacks, The Poor, The Rich, The Disadvantaged, The Less Fortunate." From the Right you will hear references to individuals. On the Left you hear talk of group rights; on the Right, individual rights.

That about sums it up, really: Liberals feel. Liberals care. They are pack animals whose identity is tied up in group dynamics. Conservatives and Libertarians think -- and, setting aside the theocracy crowd, their identity is centered on the individual.

Liberals feel that their favored groups, have enforceable rights to the property and services of productive individuals. Conservatives (and Libertarians, myself among them I might add) think that individuals have the right to protect their lives and their property from the plunder of the masses.

In college you developed a group mentality, but if you look closely at your diplomas you will see that they have your individual names on them. Not the name of your school mascot, or of your fraternity or sorority, but your name. Your group identity is going away. Your recognition and appreciation of your individual identity starts now.

If, by the time you reach the age of 30, you do not consider yourself to be a libertarian or a conservative, rush right back here as quickly as you can and apply for a faculty position. These people will welcome you with open arms. They will welcome you, that is, so long as you haven't developed an individual identity. Once again you will have to be willing to sign on to the group mentality you embraced during the past four years.

Something is going to happen soon that is going to really open your eyes. You're going to actually get a full time job! You're also going to get a lifelong work partner. This partner isn't going to help you do your job. This partner is just going to sit back and wait for payday. This partner doesn't want to share in your effort, just your earnings.

Your new lifelong partner is actually an agent. An agent representing a strange and diverse group of people. An agent for every teenager with an illegitimate child. An agent for a research scientist who wanted to make some cash answering the age-old question of why monkeys grind their teeth. An agent for some poor demented hippie who considers herself to be a meaningful and talented artist ... but who just can't manage to sell any of her artwork on the open market.

Your new partner is an agent for every person with limited, if any, job skills . but who wanted a job at City Hall. An agent for tin-horn dictators in fancy military uniforms grasping for American foreign aid. An agent for multi-million-dollar companies who want someone else to pay for their overseas advertising. An agent for everybody who wants to use the unimaginable power of this agent's for their personal enrichment and benefit.

That agent is our wonderful, caring, compassionate, oppressive government. Believe me, you will be awed by the unimaginable power this agent has. Power that you do not have. A power that no individual has, or will have. This agent has the legal power to use force, deadly force, to accomplish its goals.

You have no choice here. Your new friend is just going to walk up to you, introduce itself rather gruffly, hand you a few forms to fill out, and move right on in. Say hello to your own personal one ton gorilla. It will sleep anywhere it wants to.

Now, let me tell you, this agent is not cheap. As you become successful it will seize about 40% of everything you earn. And no, I'm sorry, there just isn't any way you can fire this agent of plunder, and you can't decrease it's share of your income. That power rests with him, not you.

So, here I am saying negative things to you about government. Well, be clear on this: It is not wrong to distrust government. It is not wrong to fear government. In certain cases it is not even wrong to despise government, for government is inherently evil. Yes,-- a necessary evil, but dangerous nonetheless--somewhat like a drug. Just as a drug that in the proper dosage can save your life, an overdose of government can be fatal.

Now let's address a few things that have been crammed into your minds at this university. There are some ideas you need to expunge as soon as possible. These ideas may work well in academic environment, but they fail miserably out there in the real world.

First, that favorite buzz word of the media, government and academia:

Diversity!

You have been taught that the real value of any group of people - be it a social group, an employee group, a management group, whatever--is based on diversity. This is a favored liberal ideal because diversity is based not on an individual's abilities or character, but on a person's identity and status as a member of a group. Yes, it's that liberal group identity thing again.

Within the great diversity movement group identification--be it racial, gender-based, or some other minority status--means more than the individual's integrity, character or other qualifications.

Brace yourself. You are about to move from this academic atmosphere where diversity rules, to a workplace and a culture where individual achievement and excellence actually count. No matter what your professors have taught you over the last four years, you are about to learn that diversity is absolutely no replacement for excellence, ability, and individual hard work. From this day on every single time you hear the word "diversity" you can rest assured that there is someone close by who is determined to rob you of every vestige of individuality you possess.

We also need to address this thing you seem to have about "rights." We have witnessed an obscene explosion of so-called "rights" in the last few decades, usually emanating from college campuses.

You know the mantra: You have the right to a job. The right to a place to live. The right to a living wage. The right to health care. The right to an education. You probably even have your own pet right - the right to a Beemer, for instance, or the right to have someone else provide for that child you plan on downloading in a year or so.

Forget it. Forget those rights! I'll tell you what your rights are! You have a right to live free, and to the results of your labor. I'll also tell you have no right to any portion of the life or labor of another.

You may, for instance, think that you have a right to health care. After all, Hillary said so, didn't she? But you cannot receive health care unless some doctor or health practitioner surrenders some of his time--his life--to you. He may be willing to do this for compensation, but that's his choice. You have no "right" to his time or property. You have no right to his or any other person's life or to any portion thereof.

You may also think you have some "right" to a job; a job with a living wage, whatever that is. Do you mean to tell me that you have a right to force your services on another person, and then the right to demand that this person compensate you with their money? Sorry, forget it. I am sure you would scream if some urban outdoorsmen (that would be "homeless person" for those of you who don't want to give these less fortunate people a romantic and adventurous title) came to you and demanded his job and your money.

The people who have been telling you about all the rights you have are simply exercising one of theirs--the right to be imbeciles. Their being imbeciles didn't cost anyone else either property or time. It's their right, and they exercise it brilliantly.

By the way, did you catch my use of the phrase "less fortunate" a bit ago when I was talking about the urban outdoorsmen? That phrase is a favorite of the Left. Think about it, and you'll understand why.

To imply that one person is homeless, destitute, dirty, drunk, spaced out on drugs, unemployable, and generally miserable because he is "less fortunate" is to imply that a successful person--one with a job, a home and a future--is in that position because he or she was "fortunate." The dictionary says that fortunate means "having derived good from an unexpected place." There is nothing unexpected about deriving good from hard work.
There is also nothing unexpected about deriving misery from choosing drugs, alcohol, and the street.

If the Left can create the common perception that success and failure are simple matters of "fortune" or "luck," then it is easy to promote and justify their various income redistribution schemes. After all, we are just evening out the odds a little bit.

This "success equals luck" idea the liberals like to push is seen everywhere. Democratic presidential candidate Richard Gephardt refers to high-achievers as "people who have won life's lottery." He wants you to believe they are making the big bucks because they are lucky.

It's not luck, my friends. It's choice. One of the greatest lessons I ever learned was in a book by Og Mandino, entitled "The Greatest Secret in the World." The lesson? Very simple: "Use wisely your power of choice."

That bum sitting on a heating grate, smelling like a wharf rat? He's there by choice. He is there because of the sum total of the choices he has made in his life. This truism is absolutely the hardest thing for some people to accept, especially those who consider themselves to be victims of something or other - victims of discrimination, bad luck, the system, capitalism, whatever. After all, nobody really wants to accept the blame for his or her position in life. Not when it is so much easier to point and say, "Look! He did this to me!" than it is to look into a mirror and say, "You S.O.B.! You did this to me!"

The key to accepting responsibility for your life is to accept the fact that your choices, every one of them, are leading you inexorably to either success or failure, however you define those terms.

Some of the choices are obvious: Whether or not to stay in school. Whether or not to get pregnant. Whether or not to hit the bottle. Whether or not to keep this job you hate until you get another better-paying job. Whether or not to save some of your money, or saddle yourself with huge payments for that new car.

Some of the choices are seemingly insignificant: Whom to go to the movies with. Whose car to ride home in. Whether to watch the tube tonight, or read a book on investing. But, and you can be sure of this, each choice counts.
Each choice is a building block - some large, some small. But each one is a part of the structure of your life. If you make the right choices, or if you make more right choices than wrong ones, something absolutely terrible may happen to you. Something unthinkable. You, my friend, could become one of the hated, the evil, the ugly, the feared, the filthy, the successful, the rich.

Quite a few people have made that mistake.

The rich basically serve two purposes in this country. First, they provide the investments, the investment capital, and the brains for the formation of new businesses. Businesses that hire people. Businesses that send millions of paychecks home each week to the un-rich.

Second, the rich are a wonderful object of ridicule, distrust, and hatred. Few things are more valuable to a politician than the envy most Americans feel for the evil rich.

Envy is a powerful emotion. Even more powerful than the emotional minefield that surrounded Bill Clinton when he reviewed his last batch of White House interns. Politicians use envy to get votes and power. And they keep that power by promising the envious that the envied will be punished: "The rich will pay their fair share of taxes if I have anything to do with it." The truth is that the top 10% of income earners in this country pays almost 50% of all income taxes collected. I shudder to think what these job producers would be paying if our tax system were any more "fair."

You have heard, no doubt, that in the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Interestingly enough, our government's own numbers show that many of the poor actually get richer, and that quite a few of the rich actually get poorer. But for the rich who do actually get richer, and the poor who remain poor ... there's an explanation -- a reason. The rich, you see, keep doing the things that make them rich; while the poor keep doing the things that make them poor.

Speaking of the poor, during your adult life you are going to hear an endless string of politicians bemoaning the plight of the poor. So, you need to know that under our government's definition of "poor" you can have a $5 million net worth, a $300,000 home and a new $90,000 Mercedes, all completely paid for. You can also have a maid, cook, and valet, and $1 million in your checking account, and you can still be officially defined by our government as "living in poverty." Now there's something you haven't seen on the evening news.

How does the government pull this one off? Very simple, really. To determine whether or not some poor soul is "living in poverty," the government measures one thing -- just one thing. Income. It doesn't matter one bit how much you have, how much you own, how many cars you drive or how big they are, whether or not your pool is heated, whether you winter in Aspen and spend the summers in the Bahamas, or how much is in your savings account. It only matters how much income you claim in that particular year.

This means that if you take a one-year leave of absence from your high-paying job and decide to live off the money in your savings and checking accounts while you write the next great American novel, the government says you are 'living in poverty."

This isn't exactly what you had in mind when you heard these gloomy statistics, is it?

Do you need more convincing? Try this. The government's own statistics show that people who are said to be "living in poverty" spend more than $1.50 for each dollar of income they claim. Something is a bit fishy here. Just remember all this the next time Peter Jennings puffs up and tells you about some hideous new poverty statistics.

Why has the government concocted this phony poverty scam? Because the government needs an excuse to grow and to expand its social welfare programs, which translates into an expansion of its power. If the government can convince you, in all your compassion, that the number of "poor" is increasing, it will have all the excuse it needs to sway an electorate suffering from the advanced stages of Obsessive-Compulsive Compassion Disorder.

I'm about to be stoned by the faculty here. They've already changed their minds about that honorary degree I was going to get. That's OK, though. I still have my Ph.D. in Insensitivity from the Neal Boortz Institute for Insensitivity Training. I learned that, in short, sensitivity sucks. It's a trap. Think about it--the truth knows no sensitivity. Life can be insensitive. Wallow too much in sensitivity and you'll be unable to deal with life, or the truth. So, get over it.

Now, before the dean has me shackled and hauled off, I have a few random thoughts;

* You need to register to vote, unless you are on welfare. If you are living off the efforts of others, please do us the favor of sitting down and shutting up until you are on your own again.

* When you do vote, your votes for the House and the Senate are more important than your vote for president. The House controls the purse strings, so concentrate your awareness there.

* Liars cannot be trusted, even when the liar is the president of the United States. If someone can't deal honestly with you, send them packing.

* Don't bow to the temptation to use the government as an instrument of plunder. If it is wrong for you to take money from someone else who earned it -- to take their money by force for your own needs -- then it is certainly just as wrong for you to demand that the government step forward and do this dirty work for you.

* Don't look in other people's pockets. You have no business there. What they earn is theirs. What you earn is yours. Keep it that way. Nobody owes you anything, except to respect your privacy and your rights, and leave you the hell alone.

* Speaking of earning, the revered 40-hour workweek is for losers. Forty hours should be considered the minimum, not the maximum. You don't see highly successful people clocking out of the office every afternoon at five.
The losers are the ones caught up in that afternoon rush hour. The winners drive home in the dark.

* Free speech is meant to protect unpopular speech. Popular speech, by definition, needs no protection.

* Finally (and aren't you glad to hear that word), as Og Mandino wrote,

1. Proclaim your rarity. Each of you is a rare and unique human being.

2. Use wisely your power of choice.

3. Go the extra mile ... drive home in the dark.

Oh, and put off buying a television set as long as you can.

Now, if you have any idea at all what's good for you, you will get the hell out of here and never come back.

Class dismissed.

Remember this speech when you hit the halls of your senior year. It's YOUR life, never forget that.

FalconGuy016
08-17-2003, 01:35 AM
Thanks (really)
Ill probably print that out or something

Gitaroo Man
08-17-2003, 01:46 AM
wow....i would have loved to hear that in person. thanks Army, that was great!

Gunga
08-17-2003, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by Army
You may, for instance, think that you have a right to health care. After all, Hillary said so, didn't she? But you cannot receive health care unless some doctor or health practitioner surrenders some of his time--his life--to you. He may be willing to do this for compensation, but that's his choice. You have no "right" to his time or property. You have no right to his or any other person's life or to any portion thereof.

I found this bit particularly amusing...when I graduated back in '94, we had Hilary giving our commencement speech. She's a good public speaker, but for some reason, she had the illusion that a speech about National heath care would matter to (or interest) a bunch of people in their early 20's, in the prime of their health. Or I suppose she could've been speaking to all the parents in the audience, rather than the students. That'd be nice of her huh?

Anywya, Hilary was so full of it that she put me right to sleep. It was a good nap too. :D Hrmmm...well, I guess she did her bit for my personal health care. After all, she made sure I had enough rest that day. Maybe she's not so bad after all. ;) :p

aaron_mag
08-17-2003, 09:30 AM
What is amazing to me is that someone is obviously successful in their life and instead of feeling fortunate that they lived in a country where it was possible for them to succeed through hard work they bemoan the fact that they have to give ANYTHING at all back to the community. Some interesting things in his speech.


Originally posted by Army
Now, let me tell you, this agent is not cheap. As you become successful it will seize about 40% of everything you earn......So, here I am saying negative things to you about government. Well, be clear on this: It is not wrong to distrust government. It is not wrong to fear government. In certain cases it is not even wrong to despise government, for government is inherently evil. Yes,-- a necessary evil

Totally agree with this. That is why balancing the government is important. I like it when the democrats and republicans have splits in the house, senate, etc. That way only the most common sense things can get passed. Both parties will claim to look after our good but whenever one of them gets power (currently the Republicans which DEFINETELY need to be put in check) they start going off on their own agenda that has nothing to do with the people's agenda.



To imply that one person is homeless, destitute, dirty, drunk, spaced out on drugs, unemployable, and generally miserable because he is "less fortunate" is to imply that a successful person--one with a job, a home and a future--is in that position because he or she was "fortunate." The dictionary says that fortunate means "having derived good from an unexpected place." There is nothing unexpected about deriving good from hard work.


Bunch of BS! You can work hard and still consider yourself fortunate. There have been plenty of nights where I drove home at 11:00. There are days when I'm travelling for business and don't like it that much. That being said I still consider myself fortunate (economically). I definetely couldn't do it withouth the wonderful infrastructure provided by this country.



Speaking of the poor, during your adult life you are going to hear an endless string of politicians bemoaning the plight of the poor. So, you need to know that under our government's definition of "poor" you can have a $5 million net worth, a $300,000 home and a new $90,000 Mercedes, all completely paid for. You can also have a maid, cook, and valet, and $1 million in your checking account, and you can still be officially defined by our government as "living in poverty." Now there's something you haven't seen on the evening news.


Thats exactly right! There are some rich bastards out there that don't want to pay their fair share! This is where the guy can't even see how stupid his speech is. He discusses about the wonderful rich and how they provide us low lifes with jobs and then basically admits that they gladly cheat the rest of us. Let the rest of us go on working and paying for the roads they drive on, the waste water treatment plant that their sewage goes to, etc! Screw them! If they would pay their way maybe I wouldn't have to give up 40% of my paycheck!



* You need to register to vote, unless you are on welfare. If you are living off the efforts of others, please do us the favor of sitting down and shutting up until you are on your own again.


Agree with this....



* Don't bow to the temptation to use the government as an instrument of plunder. If it is wrong for you to take money from someone else who earned it -- to take their money by force for your own needs -- then it is certainly just as wrong for you to demand that the government step forward and do this dirty work for you.


Darn rich don't like the competition huh? I wish this guy would please spare us his sanctimonious BS. Have the wonderous rich he loves to talk about never manipulated the government for their own gain? Oh....that right. They worked an 80 hour work week for a couple of months while they were doing it so that makes it okay...



* Don't look in other people's pockets. You have no business there. What they earn is theirs. What you earn is yours. Keep it that way. Nobody owes you anything, except to respect your privacy and your rights, and leave you the hell alone.

This is capitalism idiot! We earn our livings by trying to influence money out of other people's pockets and into our own.


* Free speech is meant to protect unpopular speech. Popular speech, by definition, needs no protection.


Thank god for that! That being said I took the opportunity of pointing out some hypocrisy of the honorable gentleman.

shartley
08-17-2003, 10:09 AM
I hope for the love of God that folks don’t take everything he wrote as the TRUTH. He is correct on many points, but dead wrong on some of the most important ones.

And will I point them out? Not on your life! I have learned far too harshly that folks will believe what they want no matter what you tell them or no matter what the real truth is. So… believe what you want.

My opinion? This man is one of the saddest men I have “seen” in a while. And anyone who follows his total train of thought, and ideas on “things”, may indeed became “successful”, but they would indubitably have failed in LIFE…. or at least at what is most important in life. And people who can’t figure THAT out for themselves deserve to fail. If anyone thinks “success” is about how much you make, or how long you work, or even what your job is, you are sadly wrong……… there is so much more to it than any of that.

Jack_Dubious
08-17-2003, 10:26 AM
He forgot to tell people to wear sunscreen :p

JDub

daveymag
08-17-2003, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by shartley
I hope for the love of God that folks don’t take everything he wrote as the TRUTH. He is correct on many points, but dead wrong on some of the most important ones.

And will I point them out? Not on your life! I have learned far too harshly that folks will believe what they want no matter what you tell them or no matter what the real truth is. So… believe what you want.

My opinion? This man is one of the saddest men I have “seen” in a while. And anyone who follows his total train of thought, and ideas on “things”, may indeed became “successful”, but they would indubitably have failed in LIFE…. or at least at what is most important in life. And people who can’t figure THAT out for themselves deserve to fail. If anyone thinks “success” is about how much you make, or how long you work, or even what your job is, you are sadly wrong……… there is so much more to it than any of that.

*applause*

Miscue
08-17-2003, 03:42 PM
I'm in complete agreement with what he said because I understand what was said - and not because I necessarily liked it. Liberalism is a psychological disorder.

Sooky
08-17-2003, 05:48 PM
That about sums it up, really: Liberals feel. Liberals care. They are pack animals whose identity is tied up in group dynamics.
When did this new definition of what a Liberal is develop, exactly? Is it an American thing?

I find it irritating... talk about poisoning the well. Right now, my federal party is called the Liberals. My provincial party is called the BC Liberals. Maybe in some very narrow twisted definition(to my, albeit, limited knowledge of Liberalism) you could call it a psychological disorder, but I just don't see it.

Rooster
08-17-2003, 06:40 PM
Liberals are the crowning achivement of over a century of hypocrisy. They will be the downfall of our civilazation if they are allowed to continue to breed and multiply.

rdb123
08-17-2003, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by aaron_mag
Thats exactly right! There are some rich bastards out there that don't want to pay their fair share! This is where the guy can't even see how stupid his speech is. He discusses about the wonderful rich and how they provide us low lifes with jobs and then basically admits that they gladly cheat the rest of us. Let the rest of us go on working and paying for the roads they drive on, the waste...

Ok, now just because they have more than you, you want to say that their "fair share" has to be a bigger contribution than your own "fair share." Who says just because Bill Gates has more than you, that a larger percentage of his income has to be taken than yours?

I think the government should just get rid of this inequality in the tax scale. Come on now, some people only having to pay maybe 15%, while the wealthier have to pay 38.6% of their earnings??? They should just institute a fixed dollar amount; that way, they won't have people trying to cheat on taxes.

aaron_mag, based on your rambling about the wealthy using paved roads, by the same token, YOU yourself should not be using paved roads either. Have you ever thought that one wealthy individual possibly paid more funds to that road than you did? You also make it seem like only the rich are using these facilities. Are you trying to tell us your family doesn't?

than205
08-17-2003, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by daveymag


*applause*

*applause*

I'll second that.

aaron_mag
08-17-2003, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by rdb123
I think the government should just get rid of this inequality in the tax scale. Come on now, some people only having to pay maybe 15%, while the wealthier have to pay 38.6% of their earnings??? They should just institute a fixed dollar amount; that way, they won't have people trying to cheat on taxes.

aaron_mag, based on your rambling about the wealthy using paved roads, by the same token, YOU yourself should not be using paved roads either. Have you ever thought that one wealthy individual possibly paid more funds to that road than you did? You also make it seem like only the rich are using these facilities. Are you trying to tell us your family doesn't?

First off I AM in the stupid highest tax bracket! I'm no Bill Gates of course. I'm in that vague "middle to upper middle class" group where a good deal of the tax burden falls. Would I like to see that reversed? Of course but only to some degree.

First off your idea of people only paying a fixed amount is a really bad idea because the truth is the wealthier you are the more you benefit from having a cohesive society. After all how much wealth could any of us attain if there was anarchy?

Lets take a really simple example. I have some rental properties (both commercial and residential). Lets say that one day they decide not to pay and just keep on living there. Luckily for me I can call upon society and have the police throw them out (admittedly after going through some stressful red tape). We won't even get into how I have benefited from having a stable banking system in place that allowed me to leverage and buy the darn things in the first place.

I have no problem with tax restructuring. I have no problem with cutting government waste (and yes I recognize there is waste) What pisses me off is when "the wealthy" whine and moan that "the government" is taking their justly earned money. Well try to earn that living in a place like Liberia. They want to act like they owe nothing of their success to our wonderous society....well they do!

lord1234
08-18-2003, 09:36 AM
wow army,
One of the best posts i have read on any forum that i have been on in a LONG time.
Thank you.
Being a college student I can definitely see how this is very valid and maybe somewhere it has opened some doors for me who knows.
Thanks again
--Spydarm
--Lord

steveg
08-18-2003, 12:47 PM
Anyone else appreciating the ironic fact that this was posted
by a government employee working for the agency that
spends more than half of your (federal)tax dollars every year.

That agency is of course acting in the collective interest
of the entire group (the USA)

aaron_mag
08-18-2003, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by steveg
Anyone else appreciating the ironic fact that this was posted
by a government employee working for the agency that
spends more than half of your (federal)tax dollars every year.

That agency is of course acting in the collective interest
of the entire group (the USA)

Of course I noted that! To point that out, however, would hardly be sporting.:D Besides I once worked for the Army Corps of Engineers and hence know that government employees are entitled to their opinion on government spending....

Restola
08-18-2003, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by than205
*applause*
While I'll agree with shartley that everyone's opinions (of success) will vary at some level, I love reading ideas that I can agree with written in a format many people can understand (if they wish to).

Restola
08-18-2003, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by steveg
Anyone else appreciating the ironic fact that this was posted
by a government employee working for the agency that
spends more than half of your (federal)tax dollars every year.
You're talking about the US military. Well we will always have a military. It's one of the few things even those who are farthest right agree we must have (it's role is, of course, always up for debate).

I would say there is no irony here. You may want to brush up on your stereotypes however.

hitech
08-18-2003, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by shartley
This man is one of the saddest men I have "seen" in a while. And anyone who follows his total train of thought, and ideas on "things", may indeed became "successful", but they would indubitably have failed in LIFE?. or at least at what is most important in life...

That is more or less what I was thinking when I read it. I feel sorry for those who have no reason to rush home after work.

All that talk about individuals and opposing group mentality. Then in the next breath he lumps most people into a group (liberal vs conservatives). Kind of hypocritical if you ask me.

steveg
08-18-2003, 02:37 PM
"You may want to brush up on your stereotypes however"

hey Restola throw my a bone here, I haven't a clue what you
mean by that

rdb123
08-18-2003, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by aaron_mag


First off I AM in the stupid highest tax bracket! I'm no Bill Gates of course. I'm in that vague "middle to upper middle class" group where a good deal of the tax burden falls. Would I like to see that reversed? Of course but only to some degree.

First off your idea of people only paying a fixed amount is a really bad idea because the truth is the wealthier you are the more you benefit from having a cohesive society. After all how much wealth could any of us attain if there was anarchy?

Lets take a really simple example. I have some rental properties (both commercial and residential). Lets say that one day they decide not to pay and just keep on living there. Luckily for me I can call upon society and have the police throw them out (admittedly after going through some stressful red tape). We won't even get into how I have benefited from having a stable banking system in place that allowed me to leverage and buy the darn things in the first place.

I have no problem with tax restructuring. I have no problem with cutting government waste (and yes I recognize there is waste) What pisses me off is when "the wealthy" whine and moan that "the government" is taking their justly earned money. Well try to earn that living in a place like Liberia. They want to act like they owe nothing of their success to our wonderous society....well they do!

My parents are both in that bracket as well. I'm not trying to flame, but when you first posted, it seemed like you were around the 15-30% bracket (no offense intended) and were just sour that some people make more than you. Thanks for clarifying it though, you brought up some good points as well.

This was in no way intended to flame.

aaron_mag
08-18-2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by rdb123
My parents are both in that bracket as well. I'm not trying to flame, but when you first posted, it seemed like you were around the 15-30% bracket (no offense intended) and were just sour that some people make more than you. Thanks for clarifying it though, you brought up some good points as well.

This was in no way intended to flame.

First off I'd say it really doesn't matter what bracket you are in. In this country we are entitled to our opinion. I'm by no means rich a fact that I realize everytime I appraise a facility for an owner (who are extremely rich). I have no problem with the fact that they are more wealthy than myself. Many of them worked very hard and took alot of risks to get what they have today. The best ones, however, realize that having things like strong schools and living wages for people equals a strong economy where they can thrive. The ones I have less respect for want to suck all the money into themselves not realizing that in the end it is totally self destructive.

Just my opinion....

Jack_Dubious
08-18-2003, 05:36 PM
http://www.sandcastle-i.com/images/shop/beachball.jpg

^^^^^^^ The beachball that would be bouncing around the graduates during the commencement speech.

than205
08-18-2003, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by Jack_Dubious
http://www.sandcastle-i.com/images/shop/beachball.jpg

^^^^^^^ The beachball that would be bouncing around the graduates during the commencement speech.

Jdub - You Rock!!!

gam-e
08-18-2003, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by aaron_mag


I have no problem with tax restructuring. I have no problem with cutting government waste (and yes I recognize there is waste) What pisses me off is when "the wealthy" whine and moan that "the government" is taking their justly earned money. Well try to earn that living in a place like Liberia. They want to act like they owe nothing of their success to our wonderous society....well they do!

This isn't Libera so don't compare it to that. We don't follow their ideals and we don't have the same system of government so thats just completely worthless.

Your parents are in the highest tax bracket huh? Do you work son? I do, and i tell you what, every time i see the money that is deducted from my paycheck i wince. Why? Not because i wouldn't give to charity anyway, quite the opposite, i donate lots of money, i BELIEVE in giving to the needy, but on that same token, i wont give a bum a dollar when he asks for money to buy bread. Ill go buy him a loaf so he can't get booze or something like that. im digressing, back to my point, the government takes money that you work for (maybe not you, because you can't appreciate that yet.)

The fact is, yep, a rich man doesn't owe a damn thing to anybody else at all. Not to say thats the right thing to do but it should be considered a truth. I hate welfare, I hate Medicare and Medicade, and i hate Social Security. I trust myself to manage MY money that I WORK FOR before i trust the government to "fairly" divvy it up amongs the populace. People need to take some damn responsibilty with their money and not count on the government to bail them out in their old age. I love my grandmother and my parents, and i personally would pay for them if they came into need, but i dont want to be giving my money to them through the government, because they get so much less than i could have originally been able to give them.

Restola
08-19-2003, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by steveg
hey Restola throw my a bone here, I haven't a clue what you
mean by that
oh i was just
stating that you said it was ironic that a military person would post
something pro-conservatism, when its actually the liberals that
hate the military.

Marek
08-19-2003, 03:01 AM
That was a good read. It's almost appropriate since I just graduated and about to start working. There are a lot of things in this world that are still a mystery, even after college. But it was a good stepping stone and I wouldn't trade it for the world.


Posted by hitech
That is more or less what I was thinking when I read it. I feel sorry for those who have no reason to rush home after work.

Why? Not everyone is family oriented as you seem to be. Some people consider advancement in their careers over a family. They want to be famous in their career, or have a prestigious job as compared to a wife and kids. I know a buddy of mine from college that doesn't want to get married and wants to write articles for Criminal Justice. I don't agree with it, but that seems to make him happy.

I am not against this, as I love being with my family, but not all people are like that, and that doesn't mean that something is wrong with them.

shartley
08-19-2003, 05:27 AM
Originally posted by Marek
Why? Not everyone is family oriented as you seem to be. Some people consider advancement in their careers over a family. They want to be famous in their career, or have a prestigious job as compared to a wife and kids. I know a buddy of mine from college that doesn't want to get married and wants to write articles for Criminal Justice. I don't agree with it, but that seems to make him happy.

I am not against this, as I love being with my family, but not all people are like that, and that doesn't mean that something is wrong with them.
I think the point is that the author of the “speech” seems to think that anything short of working long hours and making lots of money is a failure, and that you are only successful if you become the type of person he describes in his speech. There are MANY levels of success in life, and many measures of success.

The author seems so intent on just putting everyone down that he forgets some of life’s most important aspects.

Marek
08-19-2003, 05:46 AM
Originally posted by shartley
The author seems so intent on just putting everyone down that he forgets some of life’s most important aspects.

Like all aluminum CNC Tubas for the AGD Polka Band.

shartley
08-19-2003, 05:54 AM
Originally posted by Marek


Like all aluminum CNC Tubas for the AGD Polka Band.
Yeah! Something like that.... ;)

Furby
08-19-2003, 07:59 AM
AGD has a polka band? Learn something new every day...

lord1234
08-19-2003, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by steveg
Anyone else appreciating the ironic fact that this was posted
by a government employee working for the agency that
spends more than half of your (federal)tax dollars every year.

That agency is of course acting in the collective interest
of the entire group (the USA)

idiot

steveg
08-20-2003, 12:22 PM
AH-HA I see restola. actually What I read there
was anti-government libertarian stuff,which is anti-government(as in NO government)

for a government employee to post something anti-government
strikes me as funny.
As for liberals being against the military I think that
you are guiltly of stereotyping.


lord1234 there seems to be a lack of sticking out tongue
smilies here so this :rolleyes: will have to do