Be an *** Kicker not a Mouse Clicker!!

[AGD]

AO,

Recent developments seem to indicate that there could be a major shift in markers and trigger mechanisms in the coming months.

The question I have for the Mind That Is AO, would you ever give up your electro gun for a mech gun? Say if there were mech gun only tournies or fields? An inquiring industry wants to know.

Last time this subject came up it was covering pump guns vs semi auto. At the time, many thought there would always be a place for pumps. That never happened and pumps faded into history. So now we may be at the same crossroads so vote and speak your minds!

Thanks,

AGD

[Oregon_pb_]

i think playing hopperball evens out the speed difference. (200 round limit per game)

Good thing the emags can do both though, would be interesting to play a all mech game once again.

[1stdeadeye]

No way.

You can have my X-Mag when you pry it from my cold dead fingers!!!! Too good of a product to put on a shelf.

Of course, you could always just take off the battery. Hmmmm!:confused:

[AutomagRT1483]

Mech master here already;) I've played with my RTP since they came out. I love it, but I did order an X-mag and I would kill to get it;) (hopefully I'll get it before this lawsuit goes into action). I still want it regardless of SP. I like the idea of a "mech only", it'd show who the real players are in my opinion. Mech Mags Rock!:D

[Splat]

I've never shot an electro. But they do have a distictive advantage over mech markers. Tourney's I play at might have a "no-auto" rule but they'll never say no to Electro's.

[LongDuckDong]

I would not. Having an easy trigger lets me focus on the game and not how I pull the trigger. It would be silly to have a mech only tournament since a lot of people can match the rate of fire with a mech gun. I could never get a rate of fire on an RT like I can with my E-Mag or Angel Speed and I really don't have to put a lot of effort into a high ROF.

I paid around $1000 for both guns, tacking on another $100 or so would not stop me from buying it. I mean come on... we pay $100 for a pipe with holes, $100 more for an electro is not going to change my mind. $500 or so.. yes. This will effect the new players to the sport. No loner can they spend $150 and get an electro Spyder that can compete with our $1000+ markers, they're gonna have to pay almost double now.... this will hurt paintball, as you already knew and why you were so nice not to patent certain inovations such as compressed air. Some companies have a different agenda.

[Major Ho]

Yes, but only if mech triggers were as easy to use and worry free as electros in the fact that you dont have to worry about shortstroking, chuffing, gacking etc.
I will admit with the RT valve it was pretty short and worry free because the trigger would reset itself and with level 10 you wouldnt have to worry about shortstroking and making a mess.

[Spaceman613]

I only use mechanical guns....

I hate the feel of electro triggers. didnt like the e-mag, e-blade, angel, imp, tribal, matrix, sandridge...

I like to feel the sear.

[durtysoufcraka]

if everyone's doing it its got to be better so if ereone's got a mechhy then i will too yay....
..oh right...not really
i love owning fools w/their angels @ local tourney's with my ule X-Y mech mag. and ill continue to do that untill of course i get money adn then ill own them with an x-mag unless of course that is patented so it cant happen. hooray for mags

[AutomagBoy]

I think tom has a growing fear of that lawsuit coming up.....

I dont think he wants to lose his entire electronic line to SP.

[USAF-Flyboy with a Mag]

I just got my hands on my Xmag not to long ago...I love it...it was everything I hoped for and more. Before I got it, I played with a retromag. I loved and still love that gun as well. It never once broke paint and I scored just as many eliminations with it as I do with my X-mag. I wouldn't mind playing in an occasional mech only tournament, but I would never want to give up playing with my electro all together.

on a side note...
You would think paint manufacturers would be getting involved in this more so. They stand to lose a lot of money. This due to the nature of mechanical guns users generally not going through as much paint as the electro users do. Just my two cents.

[Star_Base_CGI]

Tom the first time I played PaintballI used a pump gun and I hated it.

I pulled the trigger and the ball exploded in the barrel. Than I got shot, Had to clean the barrel. Rinse and repeat. If the gun malfunctioned it would shoot a ball when the trigger was pumped.

I said only if someone made a Semiautomatic gun i would be happy. Well this year I got to play a couple years later with my semi marker. I am very happy. I was squeezing 3 -5 rounds per second

So when I read about "the lawsuit" I picked up a GT trigger frame. The Mechanical frame I had, had a pin come loose. SO I had to tap it back in.

Im even happier when I bgot the Electronic frame cause I can waste a whole hopper in no time. I was pulling 5-13 Bps second. If I could pull 13 Balls the gun was perfectly happy to shoot them.

I cant help but think about how in the real gun world. You cant have more than a 5 round clip or full automatic.

In that sense, SP is like the feds trying to steal our joy.

Whats next? Patent all hoppers that hold over 5 rounds?

Who is behind this lawsuit? The Bilderbergers? The Illumnati?

Only time will tell.

[personman]

Well Tom, I would, and I did. I sold my PTP Micro E-mag (green if you remember seeing it at D-Day) and built my self a super light kickarse mag! I miss a bit of the ROF I could get with the E-mag but I sure dont regret it.
I'm an *** kicker, not a mouse clicker!!!

Dude I am so putting that on a t-shirt and wearing that next time I 'ball

[dinger]

i like the e-mags mech over its e feature... due to the e is too light for me :D i like to have that little *click* when i pull a trigger

[durtysoufcraka]

silly smart parts stealing our joy...and our x-mags...oh wait they just arent getting made.

[SomebodySomeoneRTPcf]

No electro for this mofo.....RT Pro all the way...until the next best...

[cphilip]

I think Electronic Markers are the Devil of the sport. I am all for Mechanical Markers. Lately I have been giving that a lot of thought. And playing with my ULE RTP and loving it more than ever. And you all know I have had all of em. I think I am going to shift that way on my own. If everyone is playing on the same level field in the way of equipment what does it realy matter? And right now with all these tricky bouncy memory boards we are NOT all playing on the same level. It would be easier to inspect and pass markers of Mechanical modes only. And they shoot fast enough for the game. I am all for it...

[Miscue]

The bottom line is that we have an even playing field... and nobody should be forced into buying particular equipment to keep it even, either because the alternatives are too expensive, or there is only one game in town.

I would miss my EMag, but the ULT is a pretty good substitute. I like an electro because I can concentrate on the game, and not fumble with the trigger. The ULT is great and all, but I would love to see it go one step further if possible. A reliable hair-trigger if it can be done.

I think the best thing about electros going away would be... we don't have this electronic shady stuff going on anymore.

[dinger]

hmm.. time for a poll about making "I'M AN *** KICKER!! NOT A MOUSE CLICKER!"

those should sell well :D :D

[50 cal]

What the heck is next? SP wants a piece of the computer industry pie because I have a computer with an on/off switch that I use to look at electronic trigger paintball guns on the Internet?

These guys really need a life.

[heftylefty]

that would be a really tough decision for me. but as much as i like electros, ill have to go mech. i loved my mag and i always will, but i love electros too. i would go with mech only because it would save me money and i would have more money to spend on paint than a marker.

[Spray Painter]

Originally posted by RogueFactor
I have owned a half dozen e-mags and have sold every one. Great markers, but I dont lay more than 2 hoppers of paint per game.

I have, and will always remain a mechanical marker shooter regardless of what others are shooting.


same here(about the hopper part), i don't shoot that much paint and i like the feeling of a mechanical tigger.

[CoFFeY[NiTrO]]

I could never give up my X

EDIT: I might set the X down to rest for a while, and buy a phantom.

[Skoad]

Nope i wouldn't. It's not so much a rate of fire thing as a money thing. I dropped 800 on my electro (emag).

also i'm not going buy another marker or sell my existing one because all of a sudden electro's are for sissies.

[DiRTyBuNNy]

I've got lots of stuff on the drawing board myself...and everyone here knows that I'm first class all the way...and it is going to be mechanical...

[PaintballSmurf13]

when i play with mech guns like a mag or cocker i short stroke big time so i'm going to get an eblade asap so i'm not having my balls go all over the place till i clean it out and miss targets of opportunity (i play front). and having an eblade will make snap shooting WAY easier. I like eletroc for speedball but if i play woods i like mech because i like to have more control.

-Ryan F.

[GeoffreyInNJ]

Screw electros. I have still never actually shot paint out of one and I'm not really planning on it unless someone wants to give me an e-mag for free or in leave it to me in their will. I REALLY don't think electos make a huge differnece at all, except maybe at the highest levels of this game. Don't forget people, they still have to reload. When they come back from relaoding even a well placed shot from a PGP or a VSC Phantom, will do the same thing as 30bps sprayed from an electro.

AND who says Pumps have faded into history? There ARE those of us that still love pumps. I actually play better with a pump than I do with my Mag. This is true at least on real fields and not those new fangled inflatable BS crap shoot fields. I normally get the same number, if not more eliminations with a pump tham a Semi. It's amazing what taking a second to aim does to your accuracy, even with paintballs.

[wolverine85929]

I have always shot a mechanical marker. no such thing as an electro back in 84 when i started playing. I might have bought an E mag if i came with a Z grip. dont get me wrong i like the looks and all of the E's and X's. I just wont part with my Z grip. Z grip,X valve,LevelX,soon to be ult. I just dont need an electro. my .02$

[Torbo]

i guess for me it wouldnt be too tough, since all i shoot is mech cockers and mags anyway. But idk, because i do like electros, i just lack the money to accuire a nice one.

[Surreal]

you said it yourself, if EVERYONE used mech guns, i would too. but, i wouldn't be using a mag anyway, i would definitely go for a cocker w/ hinge or a pmi piranha (don't even ask, i love those damn guns for some stupid reason)

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by Miscue


The bottom line is that we have an even playing field...



Miscue is correct!


Originally posted by Miscue


...The ULT is great and all, but I would love to see it go one step further if possible. A reliable hair-trigger if it can be done...



I'm currently tinkering and testing out a mod I did which helps to address this issue...

I'll let you know how is turns out in a few weeks. :)

[Yamz]

I use both now and pumps as well i think they all have their place

[Ronin 23]

I've been playing since the late 80's and have seen the evolution of our sport and the gear we use. During this time span, I've had the opportunity to either own or shoot every gun of consequence that was ever introduced into the marketplace.

Recently I've reverted back to my mechanical gun because I discovered that my effectiveness on the field isn't really aided by an electronic trigger. The only thing that increased was my paint consumption. In addition to that, my markers' reliability would be enhanced because now I'm removing another component that can potentially go awry.

Now for those of you that find it easier to shoot with an electronic trigger, if you're truly interested in being a stronger player, you should really try to develop your ambidextrous shooting without 'short-stroking' the trigger. That's just part of the basic skill set that every player should have.

As for going retro, even before the SP BS came about, I was already gearing-up to go back to the way I use to be only several years ago....a 'Mag and a 'Cocker in the same bag.

Enough said....I'd rather be an a** kicker than a rodent stroker.:D :D

/s/ Mel C. Maravilla

[Tyger]

Originally posted by AGD

Last time this subject came up it was covering pump guns vs semi auto. At the time, many thought there would always be a place for pumps. That never happened and pumps faded into history. So now we may be at the same crossroads so vote and speak your minds!

Hey, Tom? Umm... they're NOT dead. The last Web Dog show has a spot of shooting hte E-Mag. I was talking to someone who saw the piece and said "Wow, he's really accurate". And his friend told him "Yeah, he's played with a pump gun how long?"

There's going to be a place for the pump gun as a learning tool, as well as a way to save money. Not to mention that it's the history of the game, and it's a living history at that. As long as there are "Old School" players, we'll still be playing pump. (Not to mention it's fun to say I owna Bushmaster and A Piranha, both built before 1990!)

That being said, just wait 'till you see me at Shatnerball! Assuming my ankle is healed up (Don't ask...) I'll be ready to rock. But to get back to the point, I'm used to low firepower, so it's not a big deal to me. It's nothing unusual about that. But once I get the E-mag down, I may change my mind. But we'll see. For now, I haven't forgotten or abandoned my roots.

Foot in the past, with an eye to the future.

(EDIT ADD) : Just a thought. IF the SP suit actually goes through, will E-guns become collectors items? Something else I'm used to owning. IMHO, SP won't get that far. If the patent claims are found to be "too broad", it's a non-issue. That's my hope....

-Tyger

[bornl33t]

funny, I eventually got borred with the E-mag I owned, plus I needed the cash and so I sold it. About 2 weeks ago I started looking for a pump gun to take it's place... mostly cause I can't await the challange. But yeah, to me.... E-guns are dead, I will never again own a E-gun... they just aren't AS cool as pumps

[Jtpaintball17]

right now i do not own a mag.. but im a 15 year old kid who has high hopes that by late september i will have one.... now onto your "prediciment".. along w/ when i purchase a mag i am also looking into purchasing to ACI maverick (those of you who dont know wut that is.. its a pump).. i figured what the hell if i got a mag to kick *** w/ i might as well have a pump to toy w/ and use as a last resort back up marker.. i think that if i rly had to choose down to what i wanted, call me crazy but i'd want a mechanical.. cuz honestly if it has close to as small of a trigger pull as an electronic i wouldnt want burst mode or fully auto... im more of an "old-school-back-yard-player" ive been playin for about 4 years now and i started off as playin paintball once in a while just to have fun on a weekend when i have time or something like that.. but now that ive been playing longer and talking to more and more people who i met through AO i want to get into the competition side of it. so in the end i would take any well tuned mechanical over a electric.. but im mean along the lines of electronic spyders vs a mechanical... i'd take an E or X mag over a 68classic anytime :D



if anyone wants to get a hold of me:
AIM- jtpaintball17
e-mail- jtpaintball17@hotmail.com
msn- jtpaintball17@hotmail.com

[LongDuckDong]

Hey Tom, to make it simpler for yah, here are the results for your poll:

Everyone that has a mech gun voted for option A
Everyone that has an electro gun voted for option B

lol...

[Mr.Orange]

Hello all!

I respect E-Markers. I am a tech gadget geek and some of them appeal to me. I even feel that they are a higher evolution of the marker, as they can make you play better, fire faster, not chop, CAN be more safe when off then a mechanical...

But they feel out of place to me, a toy or gadget, not something dependable.

Just my two cents.

James

Naples Italy

[trevorjk]

id vote but i dont feal like theres enough options cuase i shoot a mech monster right now and i love it im sure if i had the extra money i would get a e or x mag because im a mag fan and would love to have it but im sure i would stick with my mag as now so what about these for vote options


i shoot mech now and dont plan on switching
i shoot mech now and will probably get electro for some odd reason

[FutureMagOwner]

I might sell my electros and buy mechs. theres a couple tings blocking that i think though. one i am not allowed to buy any more guns. two if such a thing happens either my guns will sell for like $100 or they would sell for like 1.5 times as much as it would now.

if its the first option. no if its the second option and i can convince my parents to let me buy other guns then. fine id part out my emag(keep body sell everything else either that or ill just disable E mode by removing the battery) id sell my gz. and buy an rt pro or similar and build a custom cocker

[ChucktheMAGician]

Originally posted by LongDuckDong
Hey Tom, to make it simpler for yah, here are the results for your poll:

Everyone that has a mech gun voted for option A
Everyone that has an electro gun voted for option B

lol...
Well, not everyone:eek: I own a few mags and latey I've been using the Z, or the Intelli, and today I hope to use the Y :) As others have mentioned it is nice to eliminate electro users w/ a mechanical gun. I also like the fact that my mags are more reliable, no dwell settings, solenoids, and all that other stuff to mess w/! For me it's easier to use, put LX in and fire away, no worries! Oh, and I vote for
C. Mechanical, no matter what others are using!

[Mango]

NO! that is all :p

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by AGD

The question I have for the Mind That Is AO, would you ever give up your electro gun for a mech gun?

***Kicker here.

Have 3 Electros and 4 Mechs and usually only bust out the Electros if that's what the competitions going to use.Otherwise, it's prety much Mechs all the time.

Coming from "Real" shoooting sports,I've always felt that Electros were some sort of cheating and sign of weakness reserved for punks.(Same thing I think when people complain about "kick",pull the trig on a .50AE and then tell me about kick)

Anyway,
No electros would be just fine with me,even though I don't think it'll ever get to that.

Jay.

EDIT FOR TOM....How much would an X-Mag retail without everything related to the electronics and where/when can I get one? (please answer)

[68Classic]

Mech guns all the way. I'm an *** kicker!

[Quickling]

Yes i would give up the electro that I do not own :) I still shoot a slider framed cocker and use my PGP as much as my cocker :)

Yeah for the old days! SPOOOOOON!!

[-=Squid=-]

Ugh...I have a question. Why are you asking us this question?

[shartley]

Any type of marker is fine by me……. To me the sport is more than just how fast you can shoot…. much more.

[punkcmonkiez]

i can play with either or.... i havent noticed my game being better when playing with an electro so it doesnt matter much to me

[EsPo]

I had a decked out impulse with one of the shortest, lightest most walkable trigger ive ever had... and I traded it for a cocker. Nedless to say, I voted number one.

"Speed is over-rated"

[GT]

I didnt read everyone's comments but I am sure Tom is. Here is my .o2s.


There is nothing more satisfing than railing the **** out of a mech mag or a cocker.

For the price of my current mech mag setup I could have easly bought a viking or an emag, but I didnt:confused:

*dons flame suit and grabs flame thrower*

My personal belief is that electros are great for newbies. All they have to do is turn the stupid thing on and go play. Dont have to worry about short stroking, however I think any faith placed into and electro pneumatic 'gun is ill advisded.

The only gun that may really need a little battery assistance is a cocker. much easier to time

*points flame thrower in direction of the next post, finger on trigger*

[dogEmedic]

That's a tough question.

Well to start I would never give up my emag, I love the look, feel of the gun, feel of the trigger in electro, and the normal low maintenance (sp) that comes with it.

On the other hand I just bought a rt pro, why, well all of the above but I also like a stiff trigger.

Call me strange but the feeling of a solid trigger pull, plus the kick of the rt feels much better to me. I tried the hybrid on the emag but could'nt get a good feel for it.

[TheTramp]

First, I love my E-mag and I'd never really want to give it up.

With that said, I used a Retro Mag then an RT-Pro for a full season and a half of tournament play and never once felt like I was completely out-gunned.

I would absolutly play in mecanical gun only tournaments. I'd get another RT-Pro, slap a ULE body on there and have a blast. I wouldn't even want the ULE trigger. It was the powerful trigger return that allowed me to shoot my Retro so fast (real shooting not runaway).

[Smitty2k1]

I for one, like my mech markers. And always will.

Some people may know, but since Ive been on these boards, Ive been saving for a mag of my own. Its finally very very close. Im still 16 and living at home, Im an only child, but still, alas, I buy my own stuff :) Hah.

Anyways, I currently own a spyder, I bought it with x-mas money several years ago. It started out as just a spyder compact... and since, EVERYTHING has been upgraded. I could litlerly just about make a second marker. Had I not sold of some of the stock parts.

I decided for my next marker, I wanted to buy it all, at once. I really liked the 'buying base level and upgrading' not buying one thats already upgraded. And I also liked the mech aspect. I DIDNT want an electro. Not one bit. I shot one once, and it was kinda cool walking a trigger, but hey, I suck as is, focusing on walking will make me worse.

So where is this going?

Ive saved right over $1000 for my new marker. With that amount I pretty much can buy any marker on the market. (some would have to be used, yes)

And I decided on a mech mag.

I thought long and hard about an e-mag or an x-mag or some other electro. But they just didnt appeal to me nearly as much as mechanical.

Ive finally got the money, and am having Nicad do the body and anno work currently, then it gets sent off to Tuna to do the rest.

I couldve done the same with an e-mag. But I wanted my mech.

Mech's just seem more unique and personal if you ask me. I never will have a desire to own one.

(NOTE: I used to say the same thing about $60 mask's and nitro tanks, but I was young and foolish, and had only played once or twice)

After playing for 4 or more seasons, I know I will be mech forever.

Ok, that had no point, continue on in the thread.

[SyntaxError]

I'd definately shoot a mech gun. I own three mech guns (Classic mag, RT, NEW Shocktech Cocker!) and an Electro (Angel), and I have no problem busting out a mech over an electro. I still shoot people, lots of em, and in fact mech guns seem to give a nicer feel, like you're "in tune" with it.

Anyway, I'd like to see paintball get back to mech rather than electros, but either way its paintball, its fun.

[SIGSays]

as long as it's a mag :) i can't argue with that


but i mean i love my mechanical mag...i sold all my guns cept these 2 mech mags and a pump.. lol noone will buy the pump

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

If it can get short and light enough to walk... mech all the way. But half of the people saying they'd go mech and only play those tourneys allowing mechs only would turn 180 degrees if the PSP and NPPL decide to not restrict electros and by using electros it gives them a distinct advantage. Wiping, windex, calling paint checks to move up on an opponent, etc, people are happy to do all it takes to get a little more edge and going against their principles and using SP markers would be no contest for them.

You have my idea for a shorter, lighter, Mag pull over in Deep Blue (thread titled Spring), and as I posted you are free to do with it what you will. If it's legit, that would give people a strong persuasion to go with Mechs. And I'm curious to know what Jack and Coke has in mind. You have done so well and I am very impressed with the Mag now but a little more is needed to make the Mag an equal swap for an electric. I know you can do it though.

Best of luck either way, but if all other makers besides smartparts goes mechanical only, you stand to be in a REALLY good spot and possibly an industry leader. It'll be Mags and Cockers until something else comes along. But I'd love to see WDP, Dye/Airtech, and Bob Long try a mechanical Angel, Matrix, or Intimidator.

[Top Secret]

Actually the Matrix started out as a mech.

[nuclear zombie]

what do you mean pumps are dead ?
this is what I've been using while I wait for the x-mag , and honestly it has made me a better player . Of course after I get the x-mag my next goal is to get a pure stock class pump.

[lamby]

if this is a SP patent issue, I have this to say:

If SP is the only company that will still make the e-markers, or other companys pay "royalties" and pass them on to us I will still buy what ever e-marker that is out there to play at the level that I play at now. I want RTs banned from tourney play (bounce issue) not electros. I would buy a shocker if that is what I need to do. (this rant is only relevant to primary markers, I would use a manual marker in the rain)

Just FYI about the whole emag issue I had earlier. I corrected that with an Ir3 that I just bought. The emag is now in retirement until I sell or trade it for something else (possible manual marker for playing in the rain).. should I dare say it.. A Cocker to replace the e-mag!!

I think it is safe to say you should not here me ***** too much about the e-mag anymore. I was let down, but now it is over. Now where are the reg seats for my flatline?

[Blazingace]

As an owner of both types of guns I like my E-guns better. Not to say that I wouldn't enter a Mech gun only tourney. I just like shooting my e-guns more than I like to shoot the 'Mech gun.

[jimmyjobob]

I think Electronic Markers are the Devil of the sport

i agree with cphilip on this one. unfortunately the technology has created its own demise. just seems that too often ROF has replaced skill. seems that manufacturers are too concerned with how fast their marker can shoot.

an example of this are the electronic cockers. i would have never thought their popularity would have soared so quickly. alot of people wont even consider a cocker unless it has an eblade, etc. sad.

frankly, i find it difficult to even afford the sport at times due to the the fact that you almost have to hit the field with soo much paint to even hold off opponents. as it was mentioned earlier...id like to see a few of these people try hopperball for a few games (200 rounds only)

i think the tables would turn.

[Lohman446]

If this sounds stupid so be it

I do not like the trigger pull of an e-gun (at least any I have tried)

My mech intelliframe non ULT X-valved mag is as light as I want - the reactiveness worries me on it when the trigger shoots forward.

Then again, I am coming from sport shooting, and am used to longer and heavier pulls

[Thordic]

I have 5 mechanical guns (ULE Mag, warped Minimag, Spyder, Phantom VSC, and PGP), and two electros (Intimidator and a Rainmaker thats in the process of being upgraded).

I've used all five electros in multiple games.

I have NEVER used either electro in a game. The intimidator was lent out once, the Rainmaker is effectly in the shop for a good long while getting a bunch of upgrades.

The only electro right now that I would consider getting to actually use is a Matrix with an OTB 90* frame. But I don't even know if I'd use that either.

I just like mechanical guns more, for the most part. Other guns are fun and all but I find when I'm playing in a game with them I'm just not as effective.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

I'll stick with my mech 'Mag, and I know a bunch of people who feel the same way. We were once offered quality electros at a very nice price (50%), but everyone stuck with their 'Mags. But these are old-school guys who play with pumps a lot, too.

From pumps to semis, mech to electro, the difference is ROF and learning curve. As the tech has improved, it has gotten easier and easier to be an effective player, or at least feel like one. Ever since the late 90's, when field-rental pumps finally disappeared, fewer and fewer people take up the pump game. Only the open-minded and dedicated voluntarily go lower-tech. Either as a means of sharpening up their skills for hi-tech play, or to increase the challenge when playing weaker opponents.

So I think LongDuckDong is probably right. Most people who own an electro (especially if they started with one) will not willingly go back to mech. As long as some electro option is there, many people will pay the extra money for it, even if it is going to a company they hate.

[smilestyler]

I think we need to be realistic here. We are at a point where industry technology has brought us to the common use of e triggers. No matter how much fun it is to use a really nice mech gun, I wouldn't dare go to a tourny with anything less than a killer RT pro. And if I am getting out gunned by every impulse (assuming against a similiarly skilled player), I would be missing my emag every shot. I want my emag:(

[SpongeBobSquarePants]

There is no way. Its really all about personal prefernce but the more paint you can put out there the better off you are or at least in my opinion. Do I think electros are the most dominate? Yes. Will mechs disappear? No.

[SG Avenger]

I've always played with my mech mag. And proabably always will. I can throw some serious paint with my x-valve/yframe. But I was matching up several times today against a guy with an x-mag, and he was able to get out a lot more shots than I was.

Though, today It was not I who felt the sting, but him.

No electros? no problem.

[crankydan]

I played my first game of paintball back in 1984 in Charlseton SC. It was a far cry from speed ball let me tell ya. I think we all change over to faster markers because that is what everyone does when they get tired of being out shot. I also think it was alot funner back then simply because the field of play was infact even. No fancy electro markers shooting 20+ bps. Im an old man playing a young mans game(I can still snap with the best of them) and would love to play mechanical, if that is what everyone is using. I dont want to give up that extra edge if I dont have to, but that is why I shot a Emag. Just think about the weight without the battery in the pack. So I would have to say "heck ya Tom, I would go for it". :)

[DyNasTy]

sorry electro only for me

[logamus]

where is the option for pie?

[magman007]

OK, lets think this through guys. Im noticing alot of bandwagon hoppers in this thread. Kids saying, oh, il shoot a mech, why because tom said so!

well, sorry people, but il be rockin an electro as my main marker for a good while to come, why? because i play to be sucessfull. I want to win, and iw ant to be a good player. I am TENACIOUS when it comes to winning. I want to win at all costs, aslong as win fairly.

Look, an electro gives you an edge. it gives you the tiney bit more speed, that cans horten your times dramatically.

this is like asking, if everyone else shot a gun that chopped, would you shot a mag with lvl 10?

Whats the point? having a gun that is soft on paint, is a great thing, same as having a gun that can really lay it down, and fast.

its like saying, lance armstrong can ride a heavy huffy mountain bike in the tour de france, as long as everyone else is, but where would the reason be in that? working harder to accomplish something already hard? doubbling your work for something that already tires you out?

im saying, i cant take less strength from pulling the trigger, and concentrate on my game, i can shoot faster in a snap shot, and reduce the time my body is out. I dont have to worry about short stroking or chuffing, because i have ace and an e trigger

ANd to ask you this, who is going to take the time, to build a 700 mech marker, when you can buy the sp 2003 shocker for 700 once the suit goes through? i dunno about you, but no matter how much i scream boycott, if they and national become the only ones with e triggers out there, i just may have to support them if i ever buy another e marker again.

I plan to keep my electro, and if im denied playing a game, because everyone else is playing mech, and they are shooting 10bps, and i can shoot 13 with my e trigger, then im gunna be pissed that i spent the money on my nice e triggered gun.

[trevorjk]

well since im not getting my voting option heres my deal anyways i shoot a mech now and still plan on getting mroe stuff for my mech even though ill have the best mech gun ever when im done with my x valve lvl10 ule rail ule body iframe ult ect ect ect i must say the next step is a sweet electro so i must say even if everyone had an mech and electros costed an extra $300 dollars i would still by me an xmag so im voting for the electro option

[mr_mich]

Electro? Semi? Pump?

I don't care what I shoot on the field, as long as I'm comfortable with my gun. As long as I can get the gun to work when I want it to, shoot where I point it, and point where I think I'm pointing it, I'll have a lot more fun playing.

[GhostXmasFuture]

I think the true nature of the Q's should be how much are people willing to spend for electronic's. Smart parts will still have thiers.

I have an E-mag and love the thing. Oddly enough I just laid down money today for an RT-Pro. I love the E trigger but found that my accuracy suffered do to trying to shoot at high rates of fire. When I play with the mech trigger I concentrate more on accuracy. This all seems stupid and I have thought of alot of counter arguments to what I am doing, but I just seems like the right thing for me to do.

I love E triggers and others do too, but at what price.
Truth is most of us will still play paintball regardless of trigger type.

[Twon]

Personally, I don't mind shooting a mechanical marker, unless it's a Tippmann Prolite or something really slow. For Recball, a nice Automag or Autococker is fast enough. In tourney, electros are all about sweet spoting. When you get to your bunker, it doesn't matter anymore if you got a super fast electro or mech gun.

Today, there was a big game at my field, 300 players. I was shooting my X-Mag and the electronics went bananas. So I switched to manual mode and still score a lot of points. After lunch, I took my backup marker, a Reflex Cocker and found that it was fast enough for that kind of game.

Twon

[Python14]

Ya know, If you told me I could never shoot an electro for the rest of my life....I wouldn't cry.

Though I can't say I don't like shooting electros, because I do.

However, to answer your question, I'd rather shoot a mechanical. Once I get an RT valve and LX, I'll be an unstoppable force.

[Mag Master 04]

only way to fly, ill never give up my baby, all AGD needs to do is make ULT for the old ReTros now, and ill be happy

[Nick O time]

but my favorite is a electric gun with a long pull:confused: . go figure it's almost like mech with half the work, i like it.:D

[Pyrate Jim]

26 markers in my kit, more than half of them pumps, not a one of them electro.
I play tourney with a Carter Comp against electros, and never feel disadvantaged.

But tinkers and technology will always make advancements in the hardware we use, and it's the high-volume players on tiny speedball courts that keep the game growing.

[mr_mich]

I enjoy having my Nasty with the longest pull possible, because then the magnets just make it really really fun.

Long pull + magnets = sheer joy, no matter what.

[Interceptor]

I sold all my semis and now play pump only.

It is crazy how people are whining because they think they won't be able to get that extra .25 shots per sec out of the gun of the month. Here is a hint, learn to aim.

Tom- I like you man, you make good stuff and treat your customers good, but I gotta go with Tyger, pumps are far from dead. There is a brand new company making new pump and stock guns, CCI has so many orders that they are on back order, I'm having to wait 6 weeks to get my Phantom stock VSC in Urban anno, There are tons of old SL-68IIs, PGPs, Traccers, and others that get used everyday. You sure your not thinking that because the Mag Pump kit bombed? (I would love to have one of those BTW) Pumps are far from dead. Old School 4ever!

[Lee]

retro lvl 10 mec minimag
mac-1 annihilater
sniper 2
pgp
piranha sb pump (palmerized to stroker someday...)

don't need no stinkin lectronics.

[RoadDawg]

I think Mech's are gonna phase out like pumps did. Personally though I feel that both are fine playing together. I would not mind seeing a mech only tourny. I finally upgraded to a E and I love it. I still own my Retro mini and I love that to. The E will definatly have a higher choice over the mech any day.

[pyropiggy]

Pumps are my favorite gun to use. I play pretty much exlusively with my modifided s/c phantom, when not using the phantom i run my 68 special or my pgp. I run a 9 oz on there along with the s/c feed. Although i like useing electro and mech semis i realy enjoy the extra challenge of stock class. But i do like the mech marker more than the electros by a long shot.

[Strider]

I think there is almost two camps that should be consulted here... There is the tourney scene, and the rec-scene.

For me, I have two answers. For rec-ball, I don't care if there are electros. I play pump, mech and electro depending on my mood.

For tourneys though, give me my Emag. Yes yes we all know that skill is whats important, but given equal skill, equipment makes a difference.


As well, I think Tom hit a sore nail when he mentioned the demise of pump. It's obviously still out ther, but the pump tourney scene has pretty much dissapeared...

EDIT - As a side note, I believe that trigger bouncing does need to be addressed. No, I'm not talking about the RT bounce...

[Duke Henry]

I love my Emag and since getting my hands on it, my RTP has been sitting in its box doing nothing.

Fact is that I prefer my Emag over all other mags I have used, and I absolutely would NOT want to part with it.

I pretty much only play tournaments now, and I can say from experience (yesterday in fact), that I can not consistently shoot out 1 player off of the break in virtually every game I play. This is something I could not do with my RTP, since it was harder to attain the same rate of fire right off of the hop.

Also, it is comforting to know that if I need to shoot off a good string on someone moving on a run, my Emag can put a good volume of paint to decrease the likelyhood of bounces, which used to hamper my performance on the field.

That being said, from a business standpoint, I would wager over 90% of business is for recreational players, not tournament players like myself and so mechanical would likely be a good route to appeal to the overwhelming majority...

[Athius]

Well i really like electros for the very short and very light pull but when it rainin u cant use them and that sucks i m the kind of guy that plays even if it rainin o shinin.

So mechanical are good and waterproof but mechanical are slow but since AGD came with the ule trigger makin a mechanical trigger walkable they got me stuck in there i dunno what to do either go electro o go ule trigger. But ill first buy a x-valve and the ule trigger and if i like it ill stay with it and forget about the electro.

[50 cal]

Just flood the market with electro's and tell SP to go urinate up a rope! The p-ball guns would already be out there, can't close the barn door with the horse already out. They can't make everyone turn in there guns they already own.

[BradAGD]

I want to start by saying that if the SP thing goes through and Tom wants to promote (or even put on one himself) a mechinical tournament...

I will attend it
I will promote it
I will tech it
I will play in it
I will run it in a certain company's face

BUT

Tom, you better be prepared for SP to sue over the exclusion of their guns.

"brad steps off of his soapbox"

I started with a Nelspot, I own about 14 guns with only 1 being an electro (My badarse Emag from Tom) and that's my only semi even. I will play with my Emag or any of my pump guns at the drop of a hat, any field, any tournament, any opponent. I may get smoked every game, but I'm out there, putting everything I have into it every game.

If electro go the way of the T Rex (sorry Tom, had to go there), I'll still play but there will be a certain feeling every time I pull the pump back and push it forward that the industry has come to this.

I will support Tom and just about anybody he supports over this. I might have said too much but it needed to be said in my opinion.

Enough babbeling.

thanks for listening.

[Downfall]

The sport has changed, there are kids that play now that have never even used a machanical marker. Now a days even "starter" markers have electronic triggers, just look at all the spyder clones with electronic triggers. There is no way that the sport is going back technology wise. The game is played differently, picture an Xball game with mechanical guns... it just wouldn't work, Xball is bult with high BPS in mind. I'm not giving up my elctro guns. My guess is smart parts will probably win the suit, and anyone that wants to stay in the buisness of selling guns will just have to pay the licensing fees, I just hope Smart Parts is fair in their licensing. I doubt small manufacturers like ICD will make it through this. I sure hope AGD is in good shape after all this. Just my opinion.

[Doc Nickel]

Originally posted by BradAGD
... Tom, you better be prepared for SP to sue over the exclusion of their guns.

-Hardly.

If one were to create and promote a "Mechanical Marker" tourney, there is absolutely no reason- NONE- that SP would have to insist you allow their markers.

It's like the hopperball events- would the Draxxus guys sue to allow players to carry all the paint they want?

EMR's upcoming Castle Conquest is limiting the Defenders to pump only- should Bud Orr sue to allow players to use 'Cockers?

Now, SP might have something to say if, by some quirk of fate, the promoters of- just as an example- The World Cup unilaterally declared no player or team could use SP markers. That's a whole differnt story.

Speaking for me personally, I grew up in this sport in the days when a Splatmaster Rapide rifle was top-of-the-line and cutting-edge. I've watched the kids buy semiautos and whole cases of paint thinking they would therefore become kings of the field.

I have no qualms with electros- I have a Shocker, an Angel, an Impulse (prerelease, bought over three years ago) two Race-framed guns, and I've built my own E-Cocker. I like shooting 'em, I don't mind playing against 'em.

But as far as the poll goes, I'm very comfortable with standard mechanical 'Cockers, so if it came down to playing with that over putting even one more dollar in SP's pocket, I will have very little problem with it.

Doc.

[BradAGD]

SP threatened a local field owner with a lawsuit when the Turbos came out because he wouldn't allow them on his field. He got a nasty phone call and letter from Graham of SP about this. He said there was nothing to exclude his product from the playing field and if the field owner didn't allow them on, he was suing...really.

[FSU_Paintball]

That's horrible. I heard they threatened OTB over the electronic marker they're developing, too. And get this - there's a paintball mod being made for Unreal Tournament 2003 called MVPB. SP threatened to sue them for including the Shocker and Impulse in this game (a FREE mod). Talk about going overboard.


Right now, I'm an *** kicker, not a mouse clicker, but I'm trying as hard as I can to afford the eblade. I personally like electronic triggers, but I think I could deal if I had to stick with mechanical. And I'd definitely be down with a mechanical tournament - that would be great!

/salutes Tom

/salutes Doc

Keep spreadin the good word.

[Albinonewt]

I love my E-mag and electros in general. I'd play without them if they went away, but I wouldn't be happy about it.

Bottom line is, I love playing paintball and will continue to do so. However, if I had to give up my electro you might see me playing with an Orafcle Cocker instead of a RTP.

But only time will tell. And man will I be angry if I have to give up my E-mag. Whoever comes to take it from me better be prepared for me to be standing on my roof with my face painted blue yelling "They may take our lives, but they'll never take our E-Mags!" (And that's when I let loose with the 7.62 fire, which is like a paintball, yet different)

[Ronin 23]

Originally posted by Albinonewt
Whoever comes to take it from me better be prepared for me to be standing on my roof with my face painted blue yelling "They may take our lives, but they'll never take our E-Mags!" (And that's when I let loose with the 7.62 fire, which is like a paintball, yet different)

Will that 7.62 be supplemented with some "lightning from your arse".....:D

[JEDI]

I don't play paintball anymore. I unleash small strings of discipline with my E-Blade. I get an unnatural high from the rate of fire my Egun puts out. Giving up my electro brings the phrase "cold dead hands" to mind. :D

[JAM]

yeah, I've been through an eblade, an emag, an XMag, and an angel, and now I'm back with a mech cocker. I play against everything from tippmanns to timmys. I have the same amount of fun, the same # of eliminations, but the gun cost less and I shoot about half the paint i used to. oh, and i don't need to charge my gun up. I don't think I'll be electro for a long time. batteries are for hoppers.

[hitech]

Originally posted by Miscue
I think the best thing about electros going away would be... we don't have this electronic shady stuff going on anymore.

I would have to agree with that. I like the electro trigger, because it's easier. Not because it's faster. However, I think the BPS race has gotten out of hand.

[Crighton]

I wouldn't give up my E trigger guns. I would how ever buy any new E trigger gun that has a nifty way around the SP patent. Like quick release battery packs. ect ect.

[SocialD]

I have never played with an electo-marker and I'm sure that I never will. I can empty a hopper plenty fast without an electronic trigger. I actually find that I get many more eliminations when I fire less than 350 balls or so per game in a 5 man tourney. Just wailing on the trigger for the sake of wasting paint isn't going to win you games. THE SHOTS HAVE TO COUNT! If someone is shooting at my bunker at 15 BPS or so, I'm going to shoot out the other side. Then, I will shoot them while they are reloading, which will happen about every minute or so. I that some people, not all of them, try to make up for a lack of skill with high rates of fire.

[thei3ug]

I owned an eclipse angel for a day. great gun.

I owned an LED angel 8 months ago for a week.

I owned an LCD for a day, and it's in my basement for work.

I think electros are great fun, but it's not how I want to play. It will never be how I play, and for all the talk about the demise of the mechanical, I will never be a part of that.

This decision affects me personally not in the least. On an emotional and moral level it affects me greatly. Though a part of me wishes, just a bit, that somehow we'll end up playing pumps again. Maybe then people will understand what it means to be in this community again like the days of old, and not this chicken poop nutjob industry.

[Muzikman]

Ditto to thei3ug's comment. I own an emag, and what do I play with 90% of the time? A mechanical Palmerized cocker. I too would like to see a come back of pumps into the main stream. Will this happen, no, but it would be cool, and I could arm an entire 10man team with high quality pumps too:)

[Robbie]

You cant undo progress...... Tournaments players will always wan't the best the fastest equipment they can get. and there will always be someone looking up to them thinking it's the gun that makes them the best. Not the hard work the practice sessions and training that comes with it. Damn that slick marketing...
You are slowly seeing pump only games or pump senerio games coming back( Emr paintball). Rec ball at least by me seems to fine. The rof you get with a mech bounce trigger is pretty fast anyway. put an a5 tippman in anyones hands in 5 mins they have found the sweet spot and throughing paint everywhere.
i have played this game since jim thorpe's skirmish rental gear consisted of a pgp pump and woodshop googles no mask.
A patten war will not sink this game.
I think you will see the tounament fall first.
Bad reffing
problems with promoters
problems with sponsors
paint prices

Look a the number of people going to scenerio games now vs 5 years ago

Minimag z grip retro valve warp ego no lv10 Main Gun
Minimag Hyper frame Warp ego Backup gun
Stock minimag
VM 68
King cobra
and i would play with any of them against anyone....
Its a game

And stop complaning about how heavy the damn guns are....
work out a little bit ....
people crying about saving a few ounces on a gun when there 50 pounds over weight make me sick.

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by Robbie
And stop complaning about how heavy the damn guns are....
work out a little bit ....
people crying about saving a few ounces on a gun when there 50 pounds over weight make me sick.

I'll have you know I'm only 30 pounds overweight.

And I lug alot of gear around too. Us big guys ain't gonna get slowed down by a bunch of stuff. Hell, we're aleady moving slow, what's 50 pounds of gun and paint gonna do?

[xatle]

tournaments need to be broken down into standard gun classes.
pumps (see people using some sweet ram assisted pumps, mech only though)
mech semi's (ran very tight, no sweet spot friendly guns)
unlimited (basically any gun, any mode of fire)

winning the pump or unlimited class will get you 40% of the total entry fee for that class, 2nd gets 20%, 3rd gets 10%, the balance is green fee.

mech semi's being the main event of your tournament circuit would have additional prize money that comes from the tournament advertizing profits.

plan 10 open tournaments to start with, spread them out from coast to coast, then run 1 by invite, with REAL prize money, teams are handicapped by their point total from all the previous tourniments that season.

also, paintball wont make the move from "game" to "sport" (realistically the only people who think its a sport are the ones who play) until cheating stops being regulated via the honor system.
as it is now theres no negative to cheating, its time for some serious action, give people a fealing of fairness about the whole thing, then get some good live radio coverage(a good radio anouncer can make almost anything sound exciting).

hows that sound for a tourny format that the game can grow from?

[dre1919]

Actually, I've seen this kind of thing coming for quite awhile. I started playing with Splatmasters and have seen the technology in this sport grow to completely out of control levels. I mean, damn...we have guns doing 30 bps, infared eye chopping systems, digital compressed air tanks, etc. While all of this stuff is very cool and certainly lends a lot to the sport, it seemed only natural there would be a breaking point. At some point, a large group of people would here the din of technological noise become so loud they just say "Enough!" and settle into a "quieter" existance playing with limited paint and technology. Sort of like just going back to the basics of of the game, just for the love of the game. This happens in every sport really, kind of a circle of life I guess.

Maybe a pro or college football coach has been coaching at the top levels for so long he quits and go back to a 1-AA school or a high school, where things slow down a bit and he can once again focus on just the game. I think having a "mechanical renaissance" would definitely help the sport by putting it's ego in check. I think most paintballers have at some point felt superior because of what kind of equipment they were carrying. And if they haven't, they've fell prey to the idea it would make them a much better player. Technically, to be just as good of a player as the next guy you need the same level marker as him (pump, semi, etc.) with the same amount of paint. However, that' not why Timmies and Angels fly off the shelves. They sell because word of mouth has it they are "the best" and "that's what the pros use". They are great guns, but so are a lot of others.

I think a mechanical trend would be good grounding for the sport, but unless this thing with Smart Parts comes to fruition, I don't see it ever taking place. It's too easy to buy an ESpyder these days for the cost of a mechanical.

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by Miscue


...The ULT is great and all, but I would love to see it go one step further if possible. A reliable hair-trigger if it can be done...



Hi Miscue,

I've been tinkering with an old idea...

- Lighter than stock RT trigger
- Shorter, crisper, snappier than stock ULT setup

here's what i did:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=989212

:)

It's just an experiment! I have no conlusion if this mod is a success or not. Just tinkering!:)

[Lefty]

Originally posted by AutomagBoy
I think tom has a growing fear of that lawsuit coming up.....

I dont think he wants to lose his entire electronic line to SP.


I think that if smart parts is worried about competition that much, they should build a better product. My mag has stuck with me through thick and thin, never keeping me from playing so I'll always be AGD all the way! Oh yea, SP can go to hell!

[Ronin 23]

Originally posted by BradAGD
I want to start by saying that if the SP thing goes through and Tom wants to promote (or even put on one himself) a mechinical tournament...

I will attend it
I will promote it
I will tech it
I will play in it
I will run it in a certain company's face.......

I will support Tom and just about anybody he supports over this. I might have said too much but it needed to be said in my opinion.

Enough babbeling.

Babble away Brad, I'm with you on this one. I've already done away with my electros. My gear bag now has the best dynamic duo that I've ever had....Mechanical A/M and A/C.

Enough said.....

[Grubel]

It does seem that the "arms race" has gotten out of hand. At what point is bps too fast? Is it more fun to shoot 20bps than 10bps? When the guns are so fast that it makes it almost impossible to move to another bunker without getting hit, something is wrong. This is one of the reasons we are seeing so much wiping and slide-wiping into bunkers. It's making the game into not moving, or cheating, neither of which is what paintball is about or I want to be part of.

[Tyger]

While uploading hte vid tonight I was thinking 'bout this a bit.

The SMG 60 was banned for two reasons.

First was the 62 cal paint that was allowed to be shot at 325 FPS. Ouch.

SECOND, and more important to the discusion, is that the 9 balls per second was considered to be "TOO FAST" a rate of fire at the time (Around '90 or '91).

If only they knew...

-Tyger

[845]

In response to Doc's statement on cheating and the honor system.


I was watching X-Ball at Philly and I saw no cheating whatsoever in all the game I watched in either D2 D1 or NXL. I am sure it goes on but it has become a whole lot less prevalent because of spectator participation. Having people scream at you from the stand because all whole crowd of people saw you wipe has a positive effect on the game. Also in an LA Ironmen game the coaches would yell at the players on their team hit so they would not get a playing on penalty.

Spectator participation also keeps the refs doing their jobs. With the people yelling at them from the sidelines they are quicker to check the player.

[Sir Andre]

I just got myself my first E-mag. I am loving it.
Strider was nice enough to let me get his old one, while he found someone to buy my RT Pro that I won at SKYBALL from the banner contest (with Strider).
As stated I love the E-mag and would keep it, but if everyone were to use a non electro marker for tourny's to help shut down (not so)Smart Parts, so would I.
Either way AGD all the way.

[Creative Mayhem]

Welcome to the electro mag family Andre...:D

CM

[GT]

dont know guys,
I am selling the mag I just built because I really enjoy my shocker. Hard to play tit-for-tat when you have a 2-3 1-2 sistuation and the timmy, angel, aka, emag crowd is gunning for you. the ULT is great for folks that come from an electro background however I have been shooting mags for years and felt that the benchy tigger frame was perfect, just a little long. Benchy Y frame hmmm....

[Recon by Fire]

Well, I am not about to part with my X-mag anytime soon but why stop at a return to mechanical? I would have loved to enter the sport in the days of stock class :)

[AkumA]

*sorry i haven't read everyones post but...*

haha, this thread rules.

i have an electro, but not all for it. i like my pump :D

[Riotz]

Well, I do agree that allot of people just shoot allot of paint with their e-gun, hammering a bunker, hopping they will hit something. That takes no skill.

[danheneise]

i did give up my electro for my new mag, well it was only a black dragun but still i vote YES

[adam shannon]

Originally posted by SocialD
I have never played with an electo-marker and I'm sure that I never will. I can empty a hopper plenty fast without an electronic trigger. I actually find that I get many more eliminations when I fire less than 350 balls or so per game in a 5 man tourney. Just wailing on the trigger for the sake of wasting paint isn't going to win you games. THE SHOTS HAVE TO COUNT!

i find that when im using the sfl or xmag i shoot just for the sake of shooting fast...my game actually suffers from the endorphine rush i get from the sound the gun makes ripping that fast...lol. when im playing with one of my mech mags i play better because at half the rof of the electros i have to concentrate on playing better. i find that i actually get more satisfaction and enjoyment from playing mech.

[Ronin 23]

Originally posted by adam shannon


i find that when im using the sfl or xmag i shoot just for the sake of shooting fast...my game actually suffers from the endorphine rush i get from the sound the gun makes ripping that fast...lol. when im playing with one of my mech mags i play better because at half the rof of the electros i have to concentrate on playing better. i find that i actually get more satisfaction and enjoyment from playing mech.

You tend to be more deliberate when you play with a mech. That's my dos centavos.

[FistS]

I right now, own a clasic mag with a cut-triggerguard 2x Benchy.

I can rip about 8bps on that bad boy consistently.

When i'm playing with the mag, i have a much more "realistic" approach toward my game.
I know i can't just stand there and string off an insane amount of paint in a few seconds, as I could with an e-blade, so i'm a lot more careful and "accurate" with my shots.

I recently got the chance to play a full day of 7man's with Dayspring's E-cocker. Let me tell you, i felt a lot more confident knowing i had the same firepower as those i was facing, and it helped me step up my game a bit, being able to lay down paint at a fast rate of fire.

I think it all comes down to whether or not people could get used to shortstroking with mech triggers should it happen that there e-guns are "gone" :). Oh the glory of not short stroking on an emag or e-cocker:)

The industry is in for a major change if the lawsuit passes, you all can see that. But if the court system, as it is so proclaimed, does it's job correctly, I don't believe that we will have to worry about returning to mech guns any time soon.

P.S - But it would be cool if Tom, regardless of the courts decisions, made a new mechanical assembly for those who do not have a lot of $$ to dump into a gun.. say in the range of 4-500 dollars? The intelli is nice etc.. but it seems that you have an idea for something better if the lawsuit turns the tides per say.

[Darthmal2086]

I see where this is going. I think ill always shoot a mag. Electro or not... I dunno. Pretty stupid what SP is doing... There hurting paintball, i dont know how they can sleep at night (8 I shoot mech... Always have, never had a problem with short stroking ever since i got used to it... I mean it doesnt take focus away from ur game at all if your used to it, its like breathing. I dunno, just saying a little somthing here... i sure hope SP loses, and they lose alot of business becouse of this.

[Ov3rmind]

I would be fine with mech only if everyone else had to follow. It would give me an excuse to buy two Hybrids (slider and hinge) and a totally ULE Mag.

[magmonkey]

would we play mech only tournies ....? definatly

would we play at mech only fields ? sure

would the ten players on my team who have invested $1000-$2000 each on high end electro markers be happy about not being able to use them for what they were supposed to be used for ?? not at all ...BUT if this will somehow help alot of the companys in the paintball industry from taking a major hit (and alot probably going out of business) then we will step up to the plate

I love my mech mags but it is kind of a tough thing to tell a dirt poor team that can't get up enough money most of the time to play the events they want to that they now essentialy have $20,000 worth of very high tech paper weights. but if the industry goes that why we will follow.

Alan Gliniak
Destructive Customs
Mass Destruction

[Branchvillian]

Honestly, it's all about how I feel for the day. If I'm running light on paint, I turn my e mag on mech mode. If I have a little more paint, or my team is playing something where they need the support of an electro, then I fire up the electronics! I think the E mag was an awsome mixture of the two, and I love being able to play however I want to for the day!

[WDPsoldier]

if everyone used mech's, i'd use an electro, and own some ***.

[TAG]

We have been discussing this quiet a bit lately with our factory team members. At the present they are all using WDP speeds so it has been a bit of a concern for us if the local events turned to electro-only or mech-only based on the current politics in the industry.

All of the players that have had the opportunity to shoot by RTpro with ULE trigger (and L10) do not seem to think it would be an issue to move to that setup for the entire team if needed. This is the first time in my pre-90's paintball existance that a mechanical gun has impressed me this much and it definately has peeked the kids interest.

If I had to field our 7man team with the same setup I have, it would not be an issue in the least. Regardless of who or what happens I will make sure our game is not disrupted. ;)

What changed will take place? Maybe eliminate the 45/4500 tanks on the team and be a bit more cautious who's products we purchase ;)

[punkncat]

Well I guess I can jump into the tailend of this mess...lol

I really enjoy my mechanical marker.I also enjoy my electro marker.I see times when each one has a distinct advantage over the other.
I would hate to see a regulation be put into effect against electro markers in general.Maybe a regulation on allowable bounce in the trigger......but thats another story.
If a field had a rule for mech. only it would not phase me.I know how to aim and shoot rather than spray and pray with both my markers.
I could see running lanes being much easier on the mech only fields......


One other thing.Many people involved in paintball don't want to see electro markers go away.
Field owners , shop operators , and paint manufacturers love the fact that people can shoot so much paint to achieve a simple goal.

[breg]

Well, just because I monkey wrench everything here are my two cents:

Why not have a tourney where all the markers were similar? Kind of like how it's done in stock class, but with all the bells and whistles.
Just think, you could have it split up into different divisions: Pump/Stock Division, Mech Division, and Electro Division. There would have to be certain criteria for each division. I'll focus on what the Mech Division could use. Mind you, this is just me being really bored and having nothing else to do.

Mech Division Guidelines

1. All paint markers will have no electrical componets driectly realted to the firing of a paint ball. (So that way you could still use revvies, warps, EGGOs, game timers, etc.)

2. "Full Auto" is disallowed. No marker with a "Select Fire" option (ATS 10 and 85 for example) will be allowed. Also, "Run Away" will also not be allowed. Though limited trigger bounce is accaptable.

Um, that is all I could think of for right now. Before any one gets froggy, I'm assuming (but we know what happens when we do that) that you realize that I know that we will have to wear face masks and the chronometer limitations, but this was just some thing that I thought of and maybe some one on here could take the idea and do something more with it.

[SuiciDal Sn Y p ER]

lol i dun really care. mechanical only fields i can just switch off my electronics. then when i wanna use em i just switch em back on with my x-mag

[AGD]

Thanks everyone for your feedback. It looks like mech will be alive and well for some time to come! We are still working on trying to come up with an even lighter mech trigger which would make everyone happy.

AGD

[doubletap]

Lighter than the ULE Trigger sounds great....can't wait. What else do you have up your sleave??? MAGS ARE BACK!!

[Riotz]

Tom,

Good idea you had with the all mech tourney.

I don't think you will get rid of electros though. But if you can find a cost efficient way to shoot just as fast as an electro, which I think you have in the ULT, then this all mech tourney will be great.

Although, it was said before, it only takes one ball. Unless you are like the team we played at the last tournament, where I had to shoot him 3-4 times after he wiped. =P


I know guys who fan/walk the trigger and lay allot of paint and have no skill. Accuracy by volume; as they call it. May just be the same with the fast mechs. But you won't have to spend that much on your gun and batteries. Or worry about it being charged. Plus it will be lighter. You will be able to move faster.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

I would use a mechanical any day. If somehow electros got banned think how much more business AGD and WGP would get. Then again think how much business WDP, SP, AKA etc. would loose. Everyone would have a cocker or X-Vlaved mag, then our days as the rulers of the paintball world would arise!!

[Furby]

Fascinating discussion here. I have my own opinions regarding SP's actions over the past year, and I won't bore you guys with my thoughts on it.

That being said, I'll stick with my Adrenalin Angel. While I respect a player's choice in what he uses, I find it a little silly to talk down to a 'mouse clicker' because of his choice in markers. Then again, I'm one of those 14-16bps paint spraying monsters that everyone's complaining about.

Let the flames begin...I can take it.

[Tyger]

Originally posted by Furby
Let the flames begin...I can take it.

Umm... ok.

**clears throat** You're a hoser. Eh. Ahh, you're exepmt. Your knee is reconstructed. You can't really run anymore. :D

Wow, old thread...

-Tyger

[WicKeD_WaYz]

In rec ball Ill always use my new love...phantom.


In tourney's ide drop my electro ONLY if everyone else did. I cant be out-gunned.


DUB

[painball]

I love the super short and light trigger on my angel. I would never give it up. Never. The reason I prefer electro is that I am really slow with just one finger. Walking is the only way for me to achieve more than 8bps. I mean, I can walk 13 with my angel, which is fast enough for any type of play. But with my old mag I couldn't get above 8bps pullin with one finger. I like to play aggressive rec ball and the occasional tourney or two so I always felt outgunned in tourneys. My weak 8bps vs guys ropin 15 at me really made it much harder on my part. I know, most of you will say its not how much you shoot, but how accurate you shoot blah blah blah. The fact of the matter is, I like to shoot fast. :D

[islandboi]

im gonna have an x-mag it can go both ways so im in there im probably gona use mech mode alot

[Barfly]

Well if AGD came out with a mech mag that was walkable 13-15 bps I would be all over that like flies on stink. That is if it wasn't like $1000+.

[Furby]

Originally posted by Tyger


Umm... ok.

**clears throat** You're a hoser. Eh. Ahh, you're exepmt. Your knee is reconstructed. You can't really run anymore. :D

Wow, old thread...

-Tyger

Actually, both of them have had rebuilds done on 'em...

Stealth isn't an option for me anymore....all that creaking....hehe

[Patron God of Pirates]

I own an E-Mag, and three mechanical mags. I voted mech.

Frankly, the E-ROF just feels like cheating to me. In an odd way, reducing the ROF would speed up the game.

[tyrion2323]

Dear Tom and the AO Community,

My answer is: Yes. I would play in an all-mech tournament series in a heart beat. I LOVE my Evil Omen. I love my Dragun TES. But just because the tournament doesn't allow them doesn't mean that I would have to get rid of them!

The way I see it:
I would play in mech-only tournies, and then play rec-ball with my electros. Just as many of you feel, I am totally opposed to Smart Parts and their extremely questionable business ethics. I sold my shocker, got an Omen, and I'm lovin' it!

[RingOfScale]

hell yeah, i would prefer kicking *** with a mech gun ( which is why i am buying a mag soon ) then have a electro gun ... i dont know why, it would just be more cool ... and all the noobs would know ya had real skill, instead of just assuming it was cause ya had a fast gun, cause noobs are stupid like that :) especially the ones under 13 years old ... they annoy me ... anyway ...

[Crime Dog]

Yes...I would definitely participate in mech-only tournaments. I was a Mech-only guy before the Emag I have was given to me, and was actually quite content that way.

When I'm not playing tourney/speedball, I'm a SC player anyway, so I have NO problem forgoing an electro to use a mech gun.

Before receiving my EMag, I had a Blazer, and a Tippmann Custom 98. Never even used pods. I wouldn't mind seeing it go back that way either to be honest...