brandnew X Mag, and a few questions

[terrorizer666]

Hi guys,
I got my X friday and had the chance to test it on saturday.

So now I have a few questions.

What about efficiency ?

I got 2,5 Pods and a hopper out of a 2300 psi / 68 cu fill. That scares me a bit, because THAT is what I call a gas hog. Will this normalize after playing and shooting it for a while ?

Triggerbounce :

I am running 1 o ring and 1 magnet on the trigger, got the firing point set in the middle of the triggertravel, and if I hold the trigger at a certain point, I can shoot with massive triggerbounce in E Mode without problems finding that point. That has to get eliminated, I am about to use the gun for a tourney on saturday.

Triggertravel :

Thanks to brian123, who lead me through the first steps of triggeradjusting, I adjusted the triggertravelscrew inside of the grip. I wanted to have the trigger real short, like it was on my Timmy, Racegun Cocker or any other high end gun. But isn´t that possible ? I tried to set it to a few millimetres, but it didn´t seem to be possible. Maybe I did something wrong :confused:

One more thing :
I took it out of the box, and it already seemed oiled. It had 1000 shots on its counter. I put air on it (from an 68/45 Armageddon) and went to the chrono, 280, 286,283 with a 689 Boomy, paint being a little smaller :D
After a couple of games, the X started leaking down the barrel. On my old Automag I had, it was a powertube O Ring that would have been damaged, but I am unsure if it´s the same problem here. It didn´t stop until the end of the day, nothing gravely bad but for sure an annoying thing.

Overall I am very content with the X, the RoF, the LX and its handlich, weight and looks.

I just want it to be 101% perfect, hopefully you´re able to get rid of my problems.
Thanks a lot for your time in advance,
Ben

[Miltonyz]

The leak down the barrel is probably due to the level 10 oring breaking in, try going down a carrier size. You could also try dumping in a couple drops of oil, maybe the oring is a bit dry.

[IcantBelieveit]

always after every few games degas and put a drop or two of oil in the air inlet to the valve. That should help keep your level ten working smooth. And on my level ten i use the DOW 33 or Lithium grease. I know a few of the AGD tech and all use it. I have been using it and i have not had it leak on me since. I think it really cuts down on the friction, thus saving carrier o-ring. but try going down a carrier on your level ten. just be sure it is not too tight. make sure it fits nicely.

Try to put another magnet in your trigger. and be sure you have some traverl after the trigger point.

[terrorizer666]

Thanks for the posts guys. What do you have to report about efficiency ?

More suggestions are more than welcome, thank you !

[Recon by Fire]

Mine is broken in and still a gas hog. Make sure you play at places that provide all day HPA for one charge :)

[IcantBelieveit]

its not that much of a gas hog. i am pretty happy with the amoung of efficiency i get from my e-mag.

[terrorizer666]

Thought so.

What about the triggerbounce ?

I´ll explain it again.

I have one magnet and underneath - one O ring. The firing point of my trigger is in the middle of the triggertravel. Now when I walk the trigger, it´s fine. But when I am shooting slowly, and I am moving the trigger to that very point, where the triggermagnet gets in the right position to fire a shot, and I am holding it in this position, that gun shoots like full auto.. And that´s the thing I want to get rid of. Could it be, that my magnets in the trigger and in the gripframe are bad ? Or could it be my software version, which is 2.21 ?

I really need your help to eliminate this problem, and I would be more than greatful if I would get more helpful replies.

As for the replies already done, I thank you very much for the time you took for posting !
Ben

[Smokee_2_7]

I too am waiting on an answer to this question. I was able to reduce the bounce problem on my x by making the trigger travel a little bit longer (which coincidentally made it easier to walk) But i believe the 'sweet spot' is still there- - others have found it, although i can't.

I've already posted in another thread in the tech forum about this problem- - no real fix- - -
Additionally, i am awaiting an answer to an email i sent to AGD, so maybe that will turn somthing up.

Carl

[terrorizer666]

Carl,
I sent Airgun Design Europe and Email, too, and I am still waiting for an answer. But it can´t be that we´re the only persons having this, could it ?

I talked to someone on the phone, and he said you would have to turn out the magnet in the trigger. Screwing it further into the trigger that is. I can not try this, because the threading is damaged out of the box, and they didn´t get back to me yet.

Please post here if you find out something new and helpful.

[bunkermaster10]

Yea terrorizer666, mags are just gas hogs. Another reason I sold my mag, because it was sorta hard for me to get a lot of air here in Germany. So I got a cocker :). What tourny are you playing at? I was goin to the tourny in Darmstadt the 16 and 17, but it got cancled :(. Sorry to get of topic :o .

[Smokee_2_7]

I was able to make mine better by playing around with the HES magnet, but not Completely better.

NO, we are not the only people having this problem:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97297&highlight=trigger+bounce


not to mention several other threads where HES bounce was noted (i think thats what we're experiencing)

Still waiting. . . .

Carl

[terrorizer666]

Originally posted by terrorizer666

I talked to someone on the phone, and he said you would have to turn out the magnet in the trigger. Screwing it further into the trigger that is.


Did you try that Carl ?
We have to find a solution here !


Originally posted by bunkermaster10
Yea terrorizer666, mags are just gas hogs. Another reason I sold my mag, because it was sorta hard for me to get a lot of air here in Germany. So I got a cocker :). What tourny are you playing at? I was goin to the tourny in Darmstadt the 16 and 17, but it got cancled :(. Sorry to get of topic :o .

I´ve had many Cockers, too and I am confident, that I will get rid of this problem somehow, duznno how yet but I will ;)
I am playing the Tourney in Göttingen, it´s on a X Ball field 5 Man, this weekend (30th Aug). The next week we´re going to play Germany´s JT league finals near Frankfurt. Just to answer your o/t question :D

So, if anyone finds out anything useful, please post here, it´s very important !
Thanks a lot.
Ben

[Gecko]

what are you running your input at? the higher the input the more inefficent
i run mine at ~750 and get 6 pods and a hopper off a good 68 4500 fill

[bmexline]

i am running 750 input also and i easily get 6 pods and a hopper before i think about refilling. the tank probably has another 400-500 in it at that point but i refill so i dont have to worry about it. 1400 rounds out of a 68/4500 tank isnt bad imo.

[terrorizer666]

Well I´m not used to using that much gas for a gun... My 2k2 Timmy was able to shoot 10podz + hopper of paint, and in comparison 6 + 1hopper full of paint isn´t that amazing, really.

First day I ran it at ~800, I will try 750 on saturday, thanks for the tips guys !

And still the trigger is bouncing...

[bmexline]

dont get me wrong, im not saying that mags are a picture of gas efficiency. just that i wouldnt consider them a "hog". of coure the lvl10 is a big culprit of the increased gas consumption but for me the trade off is well worth it.

[Strider]

Gas hog? Thats my VM's name. :)

Sorry, couldn't help it. :p

[lamby]

terrorizor,

There are a couple of problems with the e/x mags and trigger bounce (even though some will viamently oppose that statement). The first is hes switch noise and the second is RT trigger bounce.

switch noise: Tom is aware of this, and said that version 3 of the software will fix this problem. He was talking about a delay timer, but the marker already has one.. The max bps setting. I do not know how fast you can shoot, but if you set the may rate of fire to 16bps this should "fix" this problem (remember that you can adjust the max rate of fire on the field, so if the chrono ref knows this you might have a problem. That or you can cheat like others on this forum and set it to 6bps, chrono, when walking to the field adjusting it back to 20bps and sweetspot away)

RT effect of the trigger: This issue is why I traded the emag for an Angel. I ran with the trigger rod removed for the longest time (about one year) because I could not fully adjust out the trigger bounce and still use manual mode. Then at a PSP event our markers (3 of them) were nearly banned because we removed the rod. The rod must be in there to measure "shootup" according to some. The best way to get rid of bounce is reduce your input pressure as low as possible and still maintain full rate of fire without having the level 10 choke, 650psi is about the limit.

if it is RT bounce, I would jump on the small bandwagon of people that are screaming for a new on/off assy or fully electronic mag. Granted don't ever expect this to get fixed until ALL tourneys ban ALL e/x mags (which won't happen).

Tom Kaye told me the the new ULT would be used in the e/x mags to eliminate (or greatly reduce) rt bounce. This is not true because they do not work in these guns. So if you have this problem you can adjust the trigger rod in slightly to reduce the bounce.

[Smokee_2_7]

Lamby, unfortunately, I was experiencing HES bounce in E mode, with the ROF set to 16bps. Additionally, due to the nature of the programming on the board, I walk the gun MUCH faster with the ROF turned up to 24 (even though I personally cannot bounce the gun with the trigger setup like it is, others have been able to a little bit). I guess my increased speed has to do with the increased number of times the trigger is allowed to be pulled in that one second window. . . So, cranking the ROF down to 16 for me is neither a fix nor a 'viable' option.


Carl.

[terrorizer666]

Lamby,
thanks for your thoughts.

Setting down the RoF is no option for me. AGD said, that it should help getting rid of the triggerbounce. He told us to set our guns to our achievable Max Rof + 3-4 bps. That would be me ending up at ~19 bps. Well now its set to 20, what could 1 less BPS on the board help reducing triggerbounce ? Nada I guess.

As for the cheating : thanks for the suggestion, but I hate cheating. I hate being cheated and I hate cheating others during a game, because I dont want to get cheated myself. This is no real option.

As for RT bounce : I purchased the X to walk the trigger and play with it like I do with every other gun. And I never digged that RT stuff, because its no skill finding a point where you dont have to do anything and the gun fires like crazy.

I highly doubt that the debounce filter will be able to help reducing this magnet bounce, but I will give it a shot. Its just the question when this 3.0 software will be availble... and how many 1-4-1´s we all will get for illegal triggerbounce on the field, eh ? ;)


So, cranking the ROF down to 16 for me is neither a fix nor a 'viable' option.


Carl.

Neither it is for me Carl.

[lamby]

I know it is not a "solution" but 16bps is better than a
1-4-1 any day. I have and emag so my max rof is locked at 16 and I have not noticed this problem. I have rt induced bounce that has cased me problems not electronics (I work in elecronics, and that I can fix myself if needed)

Does anyone have a part number for the HES that is used? maybe I can cross reference a better sensor. We have hall sensors that fire wave shapers running 60 pulses a second to measure head speeds for professional vtrs. I am sure 30 pulses a second should be easy enough to accomplish.

Good luck in your tourney and fixing this problem

[lamby]

doing some research on HES setups, it appears that there is a 3 degree angle offset allowed on three axis for the correct function of a HES. Is it just me or is a trigger offset by more than 3 degrees? Maybe another problem with the premature release of the sensor. Also, there is a HUGH varity of average gauss activate/release curves for different sensors. Maybe a diffent curve would work better. What I did not like was the maximum release distance of approximately 10mm. That is pretty far for a hair trigger to throw the magnet which is 1/2 way through the trigger arc swing.

Just more data to sift through. I got most data from www.optekinc.com

[cgrieves]

I managed to solve my bounce problem by reversing the HE sensor and trigger magnet. No more bounce, so I'm happy. Your results may, of course, vary ;)

I've posted details in the other thread too.

[terrorizer666]

Thank you C. :D

[Tracker]

hmm reversing the trigger and hes, interestiong, myself i cant find this zone on my x, i just tried for abotu 30 minutes to no avail, got my trigger adjusted the way i like with hopefully a little bit or rt action in there to help out my finger when i want it, gun dosent have an e-mode now though, (switch allows far all modes, only if you like your gun to fire as soon as you touch it, me personally i have my own personal setting and i can walk it pretty nice, hoopefully i can do the same if i ever get paint and air on it again. oh well just my ramblings and my 2 cents

Tracker

[sneakyhacker420]

2,5 pods???


if you mean 2 1/2 140 round pods and a hopper, thats about 530 balls, and that is the standard amount for an automag out of a 68/3k


on a FULL FILL you'll probably be able to get around 650 or so


sorry man, but thats just the fact about tanks, its not a gas hog at all, most guns are only this efficent, but many LP guns (cocker, excal, viking, impy) are able to get more shots simply because of specially made low pressure internals