E/Xmag PredII/Mini Morlock install/guide

[REDRT]

Isn't there a screw holding the ACE board to the frame? If so that is the ground. Then your left with the two wires that should be easy enough to figure were to place them.

My question:
I see that the eye elements are soldered to a circuit board. This board then has 2 wires that run to the guns main board. They are mraked "5v" and "sig". I put a voltage tester on both of them. The 5v one gives a steady 5volts. The other (Sig) give a reading when you cover the eye.

My question then become: How do I take these two wires and properly hook them up to the Pred. Morlock board? I know that there
are 4 connectors for the eyes (2 for the emmiter, 2 for the
detector)

Curt's Answer:
There has to be a ground somewhere. Is it grounded to the frame of the gun?
It takes three wires to run an eye, minimum- +v, ground, and
sig.
In any case, you can just run the signal into the morlock's eye signal pin,
Basically hook the two wires up to the two normally used for the detector and you'll
be fine. Second make sure you have a ground path, any black wire on the morlock is ground.

-Curt

[BigEvil]

What Curt had to say about the ACE

My question:
I see that the eye elements are soldered to a circuit board. This board then has 2 wires that run to the guns main board. They are mraked "5v" and "sig". I put a voltage tester on both of them. The 5v one gives a steady 5volts. The other (Sig) give a reading when you cover the eye.

My question then become: How do I take these two wires and properly hook them up to the Pred. Morlock board? I know that there
are 4 connectors for the eyes (2 for the emmiter, 2 for the
detector)

Curt's Answer:
There has to be a ground somewhere. Is it grounded to the frame of the gun?
It takes three wires to run an eye, minimum- +v, ground, and
sig.
In any case, you can just run the signal into the morlock's eye signal pin,
Basically hook the two wires up to the two normally used for the detector and you'll
be fine. Second make sure you have a ground path, any black wire on the morlock is ground.

-Curt

[REDRT]

Nope We aren't 5.0 we have older 3.0 . Nothing really different. You just have some different ramping and break out options over us. Install I believe is the same. I should be able to pluck your board into my harness and work. That looks about right. I think that is the same thing I downloaded over a year ago now. I color matched my stock wire to the boards leads as best I could to make things easier on me. It took me about an hour and a half to do the complete job soldering and shrink rapping the wires nice and neat

Just to make shure we talking about the Mini Morlock 5.0. I'll post what the wiring diagram is from Tag:

Wiring harness - Front, Writing Down (HKS) (wires pointing away)
1 = White (eye +5 volts at 150ma max) short lead
2 = Green (eye signal)
3 = Black (emitter -) short lead
4 = Orange (emitter +)
5 = Red (solenoid 2)
6 = Yellow (solenoid 2)
7 = Red (solenoid 1)
8 = Blue (solenoid 1)
9 = Black (battery -)
10 = Red (battery +)
11 = Black (trig -)
12 = Grey (trig +)

As for my X's HES wiring on the stock emag board is Blk, Ywl, Rd from top to bottom like yours. After reading a lot of posts I decided to wire everything according to the Tag install manual. Compared to you and your bro's mag there are some differances, but if it works there is no reason to mess with it. I know Ryan from Logic is a real smart guy and a Tag dealer, so I'm shure he knows what he's doing. Me I'm just a humble player with no money, a lot of time, and bubble gum to try and figure stuff like this out........

[flyingpootang]

Above applies to the way I have mine set up. Your 11 and 4 could be swapped per marker I'd bet. Mine I believe would work just the way you have yours set up Fly, but my brothers would be flip flop on your 11 and 4. Looking at the good ol'stock board my HES plug from the top towards the display was wired blk,yellow and red.I bet yours was the same as mine. Aaron's was stock yellow, blk, red. Can you verify this on your end?

Just to make shure we talking about the Mini Morlock 5.0. I'll post what the wiring diagram is from Tag:

Wiring harness - Front, Writing Down (HKS) (wires pointing away)
1 = White (eye +5 volts at 150ma max) short lead
2 = Green (eye signal)
3 = Black (emitter -) short lead
4 = Orange (emitter +)
5 = Red (solenoid 2)
6 = Yellow (solenoid 2)
7 = Red (solenoid 1)
8 = Blue (solenoid 1)
9 = Black (battery -)
10 = Red (battery +)
11 = Black (trig -)
12 = Grey (trig +)

As for my X's HES wiring on the stock emag board is Blk, Ywl, Rd from top to bottom like yours. After reading a lot of posts I decided to wire everything according to the Tag install manual. Compared to you and your bro's mag there are some differances, but if it works there is no reason to mess with it. I know Ryan from Logic is a real smart guy and a Tag dealer, so I'm shure he knows what he's doing. Me I'm just a humble player with no money, a lot of time, and bubble gum to try and figure stuff like this out........

[REDRT]

Positions 11 and 12 can be reversed from marker to marker.

Above applies to the way I have mine set up. Your 11 and 4 could be swapped per marker I'd bet. Mine I believe would work just the way you have yours set up Fly, but my brothers would be flip flop on your 11 and 4. Looking at the good ol'stock board my HES plug from the top towards the display was wired blk,yellow and red.I bet yours was the same as mine. Aaron's was stock yellow, blk, red. Can you verify this on your end?

[REDRT]

In fact looking at you set up over mine I guess there is some differences.

HES yellow=pin 12
HES black=pin 11
HES red= pin 1
noid=pin 7 and 8
battery + red=pin 10
battery - black=pin 9

Aarons is the same except his HES wires on pin 11 & 12 are reversed from mine. Coolhand/logic set my brothers up and I used his as referance to set mine up.

[REDRT]

I would assume you and your brother have E/X mags and if the wires are different for the HES it is a good idea to verify your wires as I stated in my post. As for the polarity of the MAGNETIC SOLENOID wires I don't see what differance it would make on north/south. They have the same attraction ability. Unless the attraction portion is also polorized I don't see how it makes a differance. Now I think about it I did remember reading about how they used a compass to verify the pull direction some where. Don't get me wrong this is the first Xmag I have ever done, so I don't claim to know it all. Maybe I just ave the got lucky with mine . To verify this I will reverse the solenoid and see what happens. Anyway thanks for the great input I'm shure everyone will benefit from it.

Yes sir we have Emags. Our stock boards the HES wires were reversed as well. I almost thought I fried my board as I hooked it up Because it flashed once and didn't work. I then noticed my HES wires were reverse of his. Did a flip flop and snap it worked.

The noid polarity makes a big differance in mine and a little less in my brothers. Mine just goes insane and doesn't stop shooting. The HES is magnetic with the south pole of the noid up toward the sear it tricks the HES to fire like the trigger has been pulled The only way to stop it on mine is to flip on the safety or or pin the battery. Aaron's on the other hand would sometimes add short bursts at the end of the shot strings. Didn't notice it at first until I took 17 balls or so when he only pulled the trigger 2 to 3 times and ramping was off. Just little tid bits of info I thought might be of use.

[flyingpootang]

Positions 11 and 12 can be reversed from marker to marker. Mine is backwards of my brothers. Also polarity of the noid matters. The north pole of a compass should point up towards the sear when laying over the noid after a cycle or two. If you reverse the white noid wires you can get runaways. Ace works with the board, but since I don't have Ace I can't remember what hooked where. In the tag forum search for the install guide. I know at least one guy there has a link.

I would assume you and your brother have E/X mags and if the wires are different for the HES it is a good idea to verify your wires as I stated in my post. As for the polarity of the MAGNETIC SOLENOID wires I don't see what differance it would make on north/south. They have the same attraction ability. Unless the attraction portion is also polorized I don't see how it makes a differance. Now I think about it I did remember reading about how they used a compass to verify the pull direction some where. Don't get me wrong this is the first Xmag I have ever done, so I don't claim to know it all. Maybe I just ave the got lucky with mine . To verify this I will reverse the solenoid and see what happens. Anyway thanks for the great input I'm shure everyone will benefit from it.

[REDRT]

Positions 11 and 12 can be reversed from marker to marker. Mine is backwards of my brothers. Also polarity of the noid matters. The north pole of a compass should point up towards the sear when laying over the noid after a cycle or two. If you reverse the white noid wires you can get runaways. Ace works with the board, but since I don't have Ace I can't remember what hooked where. In the tag forum search for the install guide. I know at least one guy there has a link.

[flyingpootang]

This may be alittle of topic, but I saw this post and it peaked my intrest. I was looking at the Worlock manual and it says they are using a "Transistor" to activate the solenoid, this concerns me because of the massive amount of current the E/Xmag needs to fire properly. A MOSFET would work much better and disipate less power, just wondering if a transistor is actually what they are using?

If you guys dont know how a PNP or NPN junction transistor works the Collector Emitter current is dependent upon the Base Emitter current, so the max current the transitor can conduct depends on how much current the "PIC" can source to the Base of the transistor.

The Gate on a MOSFET is voltage controlled so the Gate voltage and current function indepently from the Drain Source current, not only that but a MOSFET can support much high current levels and have a lower Rds_on (resistance when the MOSFET is closed), so they would disipate less power.

Just my two cents, but if they are really using a MOSFET then ignore my rant....


Good luck with the ACE controls.

So far with all of the PredII mods that have been done I have never heard of a fried board due to current draw from the solenoid. The brightside to all of PredII boards carry a life time warranty from Tag.

As for the ACE system and if it's needed or not on an E/Xmag I find it's like carrying around a extra pair of shoes with you just in case you wear a hole in one of them while walking down the street. I've been shooting my A4 with a PredII board with eyes in it and with even modirate paint I have never chopped a ball. So I don't stay awake at night thinking how can I mod an AGD Level 10 bolt into my angel "JUST IN CASE "

[Chrishew09]

This may be alittle of topic, but I saw this post and it peaked my intrest. I was looking at the Worlock manual and it says they are using a "Transistor" to activate the solenoid, this concerns me because of the massive amount of current the E/Xmag needs to fire properly. A MOSFET would work much better and disipate less power, just wondering if a transistor is actually what they are using?

If you guys dont know how a PNP or NPN junction transistor works the Collector Emitter current is dependent upon the Base Emitter current, so the max current the transitor can conduct depends on how much current the "PIC" can source to the Base of the transistor.

The Gate on a MOSFET is voltage controlled so the Gate voltage and current function indepently from the Drain Source current, not only that but a MOSFET can support much high current levels and have a lower Rds_on (resistance when the MOSFET is closed), so they would disipate less power.

Just my two cents, but if they are really using a MOSFET then ignore my rant....


Good luck with the ACE controls.

[flyingpootang]

I think it could be done easier than that, but Im afraid to try it. There is 4 wires on the Predator, 2 on the ACE. A +5v and a sig. The board appears to be grounded to the frame via the screw and space used to mount the ACE board. My theory is this, take the +5v and sig wires from the ACE and connect them to the appropriate eye port on the Predator. Take the remaining 2, which are both ground, and run them up and unde the ACE board, and attach them to the mounting screw.

Curt and I had this discussion once, he said it sounded good, but I never tried it. Coolhand couldnt get one to work what ever way he tried and I got paranoid about it.

I will dig up the emails I had with curt and post the info here later.

Sounds great the more info the better. Please re-read the orig install/guide post since I have moddified it since this morning.

[BigEvil]

I'm not using the ACE system, because the lvl 10 will not allow you to chop anyway. I did read in the dealer forum that Ryan from Logic wrote: you would have to scratch through/cut the traces on the to the ACE board then connect the (4) eye wires to the ACE sensors's 4 legs. As for which wires go where it' will have to be trial and error. If you want to do this mod I would suggest a different singal 4 legged pronged eye hot glued into the eye hole. I haven't looked yet, but try www.jameco.com or you can desolder your eye off of the ACE board, but be careful ACE boards are a little hard to come by now a days. I didn't even consider this because I wanted to be able to convert my X back to the stock condition. Hope this helps

I think it could be done easier than that, but Im afraid to try it. There is 4 wires on the Predator, 2 on the ACE. A +5v and a sig. The board appears to be grounded to the frame via the screw and space used to mount the ACE board. My theory is this, take the +5v and sig wires from the ACE and connect them to the appropriate eye port on the Predator. Take the remaining 2, which are both ground, and run them up and unde the ACE board, and attach them to the mounting screw.

Curt and I had this discussion once, he said it sounded good, but I never tried it. Coolhand couldnt get one to work what ever way he tried and I got paranoid about it.

I will dig up the emails I had with curt and post the info here later.

[flyingpootang]

Great job with the write up. I always wanted to do something like this myself.

Hey, did you get the ACE to work with the Pred?

I'm not using the ACE system, because the lvl 10 will not allow you to chop anyway. I did read in the dealer forum that Ryan from Logic wrote: you would have to scratch through/cut the traces on the to the ACE board then connect the (4) eye wires to the ACE sensors's 4 legs. KEEP IN MIND YOU HAVE TO PARALLEL/SPLIT THE EMMITTER + (PRED ORANGE WIRE #4) WITH THE HES SIGNAL WIRE (YELLOW). As for which wires go where it' will have to be trial and error. If you want to do this mod I would suggest a different singal 4 legged pronged eye hot glued into the eye hole. I haven't looked yet, but try www.jameco.com or you can desolder your eye off of the ACE board, but be careful ACE boards are a little hard to come by now a days. I didn't even consider this because I wanted to be able to convert my X back to the stock condition. Hope this helps

[BigEvil]

Great job with the write up. I always wanted to do something like this myself.

Hey, did you get the ACE to work with the Pred?