PTP pneu-mag

[xXHavokXx]

I have a stealth barrel aside from looking like a sex toy, it shoots.......... just like any other barrel!!!!Rifling is a good marketing gimmick but not much else. The main accuracy issuse in guns have to do with regulators not barrels. After all if rifing had such a signifigant effect everyone would use it.

[paintballr87]

Classic...no prob.

Technically the ULT lowers max ROF and recharge rate, same reason you don't want to put one in an E/Xmag,but that varies depending on the specific gun.Either way,your better off with out it if you don't need it.

Exellent, I was going to get ULT for my mag but since its no needed Ill just save that moeny for lvl 10!! w00t

[Rooster]

The hAir trigger got killed for that? Unfortunate.

"Properly made rifling for paintball barrels (definition of properly made = progressive polygonal rifling) create more surface area for the ball to seal against and help to reduce and minimize ball wobble and bounce down the barrel."

LOL! Its a good thing there is a sucker born every minute. The most unfortunate part of Tom Kaye's untimely departure is that crap like this goes unchallenged from the paintball industry rank and file.

[CoolHand]

The hAir trigger got killed for that? Unfortunate.

"Properly made rifling for paintball barrels (definition of properly made = progressive polygonal rifling) create more surface area for the ball to seal against and help to reduce and minimize ball wobble and bounce down the barrel."

LOL! Its a good thing there is a sucker born every minute. The most unfortunate part of Tom Kaye's untimely departure is that crap like this goes unchallenged from the paintball industry rank and file.

I love how people see "Rifling", and automatically think "Spinning Paintball", then leap to "Its Hype! Its Impossible! KILL! KILL! KILL!"

Ever wonder why some people look at AO and see nothing but zelots and malcontents who regurgitate a single piece of research over and over again? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 'Cause there are a lot of them here, and that is exactly what they do.

TK's research didn't even hint at what straight rifiling may or maynot do for a paintball, they never did any testing at all with straight rifling. They were trying to debunk helical rifling, and did a good job of it I'd say. However, that is all that they covered. That single piece of research is not the end all be all of PB tests. You can't simply cite it as your trump card thinking that its mear mention wins the argument for you.

I am sick to death of the Anti-Hype Hype around here (I would refer to it simply as Bull Crap, but that's just me). You all run around as if you had a PHD in paintball technology, and spout off this that or whatever as if it were the god's honest truth, when in fact you yourself are not even sure of what you are saying.

Grow up. Or if you can't manage that, at least stop posting unless you are 100% sure what you are saying is true.

I am sorry to single you out (as I don't know you from Adam), but this rampant citing of others work (incorrectly I might add) to suit whatever argument may be going on at the time is really getting under my skin. This sort of thing is why people are starting to equate AO to PBN. Not the 12yr old e-punks, but the rampant posting of hearsay and BS as fact. Once upon a time, what you found here was good as gold. An answer was an answer, and you could take it to the bank. Now, its a crapshoot at best, and at worst its more useless than trial and error (and potentially more destructive).

This goes out to everyone - Take a few mins before you post, to check your facts, and do a little research before just saying whatever. And while you're at it, spell check your post, and make sure its in a readable format. Teh 1337orz talk hurts my head (that's not pointed at your Rooster, you are well spoken for the most part).

That is all. You may now feel free to move about the cabin.

EDIT: Just thought I'd toss this out there too - Why the hell are we arguing about straght rifling in the Pneu Frame thread? Back on topic please. If we need to discuss this further, PM someone.

[rabidchihauhau]

Thanks coolhand - I didn't even need to come on here, but...

Tom Tested EXTERNAL helical rifling.

Mr. Rooster, for your information, there are two (and only two) companies in the industry who have spent any kind of money on serious, military-related, ballistically-related, real-world, statistically and scientifically correct testing and those two companies are - AirGun Designs and Pro-Team Products.

Coolhand is right though - this was the pneu-trigger thread.

[sabrefanpc]

hey jay, ive been seeing more and more homemade pneumatic frames, and dw suposedly had theirs ready for distrabution a while ago, so whats the hold up gettin these out? just have to tool the machines or legal or what?


if its r&d, I will out of the goodness of my own heart give up my own time to test them

[rabidchihauhau]

You know, some of you guys have no appreciation for what goes into bringing a product to market.

Forget the R&D time; you have costing issues, manufacturing issues, distribution issues, packaging issues, deal negotiation time, shipping times, advertising roll-out, market strategizing...the list goes on.

[Beemer]

Ya

Theres that damn IADSPBP again

[sabrefanpc]

no i dont have any appretiation for it cause I've never done it!

i just am curious as to why such a cash cow would not be released right after they are refined enough for production. I have no clue about distribution or packaging or any other strateegerizing

[RRfireblade]

hey jay, ive been seeing more and more homemade pneumatic frames, and dw suposedly had theirs ready for distrabution a while ago, so whats the hold up gettin these out? just have to tool the machines or legal or what?


if its r&d, I will out of the goodness of my own heart give up my own time to test them

K,

I'll answer this just to keep it simple....

For starters and I'm sorry but the Mag version was not a priority for PTP,it was something I pushed for and only fairly recently got approval to pursue.

The 'homemade' jobs your seeing while neat and somewhat effective,don't even hold a candle to the full potential of this idea,not even in the ballpark.And that is not a slam to those guys, I give them much credit for taking a stab at it and coming up with a functioning system of a similar idea but the fact is it's like comparing pin hole camara to a Kodak.

In regard to DW,and of whom I give the utmost respect,they were no where near ready for full distribution...never less mass production.Not sure why some people seem to think that.They were ready ONLY for AGD or someone to pick it up from there,work out the final details of which Tom expressed there were still many,and take it the rest of the way. When that fell through Nicads only option as he stated clearly,was to build them one by one and by hand himself. Hardly mass production by a long shot and what do you think cost of the hAir would have been retail then? AGD hinted at retail in the mid 300s,you really want to pay that much? I don't want to try and sell it for that much and despite the wild talk of the average AO'er,they WILL NOT pay that much for it.DW on thier own would have a tough time IMO to even be able to meet that price if it's a onseys twoseys production system.

So.....

We are at the sourcing of crucial hard to build components and evaluatling cost analysys of various suppliers and manufactures.There are a bunch of micro components in this thing that if we or anybody else is going to retail at a fair,good for everybody price, have to be worked out.We are and have been for a while now, at the mercy of those outside suppliers.When you put in 'spec' requirement for a custom part to be made in large quantity theses guys don't just call you later that day with an answer.It more like you wait 3-4 weeks to find out there's an issue,you make changes, you wait 3-4 weeks,then.....if they'er capable,interested and can meet pricing requirements,you move on to part number 2.If not you start all over again....sucks I know but basically that's how it works.

To make matters worse,as time goes by technology changes,competition changes,market shares change and sometimes force you to change intended price points which may start the whole process all over again.This is one reason why alot of 'cool' protos you see never make it off the bench.If your not a huge powerfull company with the clout to force outside venders to comply with your deadlines and price points your kinda screwed to sit and wait. Walmart for instance can and does say,we want "This Item", we want "This Quantity" and we're going to pay "This Price" for it. And and you know what? Every competitive supplier kills themselves,sells thier children,does whatever it takes to do it. C'est La Vie.......can't change that.

Some much for a simple response.

But....that's the facts as they are current.

I'll have updated pics and a vid of the final functioning Mag protoype up next week.It's basically finalized except for exterior styling.I have it built up on yet another 'existing' frame style to prove capability so it's just final appearances to nail down,but that's a minor issue as I already know what I want it to look like.

Whew....

Jay.

[sabrefanpc]

cool, thanks.

good luck man, and thanks for helpin us maggers out

cant wait to get mine...

[chairman_mao]

K,


We are at the sourcing of crucial hard to build components and evaluatling cost analysys of various suppliers and manufactures.There are a bunch of micro components in this thing that if we or anybody else is going to retail at a fair,good for everybody price, have to be worked out.We are and have been for a while now, at the mercy of those outside suppliers.When you put in 'spec' requirement for a custom part to be made in large quantity theses guys don't just call you later that day with an answer.It more like you wait 3-4 weeks to find out there's an issue,you make changes, you wait 3-4 weeks,then.....if they'er capable,interested and can meet pricing requirements,you move on to part number 2.If not you start all over again....sucks I know but basically that's how it works.

To make matters worse,as time goes by technology changes,competition changes,market shares change and sometimes force you to change intended price points which may start the whole process all over again.This is one reason why alot of 'cool' protos you see never make it off the bench.If your not a huge powerfull company with the clout to force outside venders to comply with your deadlines and price points your kinda screwed to sit and wait. Walmart for instance can and does say,we want "This Item", we want "This Quantity" and we're going to pay "This Price" for it. And and you know what? Every competitive supplier kills themselves,sells thier children,does whatever it takes to do it. C'est La Vie.......can't change that.

Some much for a simple response.

But....that's the facts as they are current.

I'll have updated pics and a vid of the final functioning Mag protoype up next week.It's basically finalized except for exterior styling.I have it built up on yet another 'existing' frame style to prove capability so it's just final appearances to nail down,but that's a minor issue as I already know what I want it to look like.

Whew....

Jay.

Great info thanks for the update

[Scott Hudnall]

Excellent update. I will be buying this product when released.

[jewie27]

AGD needs to sue Pro Team for using their valves and the 'Mag name on the product. By the way, I thought it was going to be just a pnuematic gun. Not a pnuematic Automag.......

LOL

[jackbauer]

i am very intrested in seeing some detailed pics about this product. cant wait to get my hands on one to see for myself. great job and i guess i will be keeping my mag after all!!!!