Tac_One, AGD isn't Fooling Around Any More>>

[Halliday]

Yeah, ditch the X-Valve, Intelli and ULT. Keep the Lvl 10 and add the stock trigger frame.

[Lohman446]

Originally posted by Halliday
Yeah, ditch the X-Valve, Intelli and ULT. Keep the Lvl 10 and add the stock trigger frame.

He's exactly right on this one. If the price is the primary concern and the magic number is $350 then we need to start trimming this thing to the $350 range.

Folks.. here it is, you can either have the tac-one as proposed (PS I think ULE trigger is a big error) and actually pay its value or you need to figure out how to get it down to the price you discuss.

$350 for a fully upgraded mechanical mag is insanely low...

[WARPED1]

Dump the Xvalve, and Ult. Not desireable on a scenario marker.

[Halliday]

Originally posted by Lohman446
... If the price is the primary concern and the magic number is $350 then we need to start trimming this thing to the $350 range.

AGD should offer extras to be bolted on. Do a mix-&-match at the online store. Add an Intelli for $100....that kind of thing.

It can't be $500 or it won't sell. Tac-One needs to be $200-$300 to make an impact on the market and it can't have ALL he AGD goodies at that price.

[GT]

Tac-One specs.
X valve
custom milled slug body vert. feed
Intelliframe with rubber grips
J&J cocker barrel
ULT trigger
LvL 10
Flat black only

I guess I can weigh in here, this is my opinion and dont give me any crap, this is an idea session so dont shoot me down.

Most guys like stuff in packages with flashy names. Notice all the fancy m98 and A5's come in some kinda of package with tippmann installed accs.


Package "Tac-one level one" Or "tac-one"
Price range 275-350

Al Classic
custom milled slug body vert. feed
J&J cocker barrel
LvL 10
Flat black only

Let me take a shot at your setup here Tom. First lets ditch the X, I, & ULT. Lets add an Al classic (yes I know in the past you have said you wont build one but I can dream cant I?) and the stock "carbon Fiber" frame.

Package "Tac-one level two" "tac-two" "tac-one i(pronounced eye)" "Tac i(pronounced eye)"

Price range 300-375

Al Classic
custom milled slug body vert. feed
J&J cocker barrel
LvL 10
Iframe
Flat black only

same as above except added I frame.

Package "Tac-one X" Or "tac-X"
Price range 325-400

Xvalve
custom milled slug body vert. feed
J&J cocker barrel
LvL 10
I frame
Flat black only

Added the X to the mix.


Package "Tac-one X Light" Or "tac-X Light"
Price range 375-450

Xvalve
custom milled slug body vert. feed
J&J cocker barrel
LvL 10
I frame
Flat black only
ULT

Added the ULT to the mix.


Package "Tac-one X ultimate" Or "tac-X ultimate"
Price range 450-600

Xvalve
custom milled slug body vert. feed
J&J cocker barrel
LvL 10
I frame
Flat black only
ULT
AGD Flatline
Warpfeed

Added the flatline and warpfeed to the mix.

Remember the more inhouse parts you can throw on this rig the higher the price is however it is alittle bit cheaper to make....... I think I screwed that up but you can charge more for parts that you put on at cost.

Jason B.

[Lohman446]

I have to agree that it should not be that hard to make a

Tac-one
Tac-two
Tac-X (now Im sorry, but pronounce that and it sounds awesome, much better than A5 - I have an AGD Tac X gun (like tactics - that name alone is worth it and justifies the X valve))

The idea of several different levels of this thing with the scenario body would do better by giving you an instantly wider share of the market.

[GT]

Originally posted by Lohman446

Tac-X (now Im sorry, but pronounce that and it sounds awesome, much better than A5 - I have an AGD Tac X gun (like tactics - that name alone is worth it and justifies the X valve))

We see eye to eye bro......


jb

[Darkling]

Tom, leave it with everything. People are saying ditch the ULE body, trigger, and throw on a classic valve. If you do this, what are you left with? A normal plain unpopular Mag. So what if there is a learning curve with the ULT? Thats what the lvl 10 is for. I know Cockers take a while to get used to the trigger, too.

If Tom wants to take over the whole scenario scene by storm, he needs to offer a gun that can out compete all the Tippmanns and cockers at the same price (or lower, in the cockers case). Rec players don't need 15 balls per second, but if they can buy a Tippmann for $350 thats reliable, has a flatline, and looks cool, or a Mag, that doesn't chop, shoots insanely fast, is reliable, looks cool, and is light, accepts cocker barrels (which are, by the way, the most popular), all for the same price, which are they going to choose?

I know alot of Cocker owners that would ditch their guns in a heartbeat if this thing came out for $350-400ish. It would make it even easier for them (and be an added incentive to all cocker owners), if they could keep their barrels.

What I'm saying is, Tom needs to have all the upgrades on it if he wants to compete in the scenario/rec world.

Well, I hope that made sense. Just my incoherent ramblings...

Darkling

*EDIT - Oops, forgot to add this. Damn good price - $350, Highest I might pay - $450-500

[FalconGuy016]

I only read the first 40 posts cause I wanted to post this (it has been said already) If the price is TOO CHEAP, you will have an issue on your hands. A lot of people will just buy the gun and either put an ULE body on it or resell all the parts in total. While, that might not be a totaly bad thing (except that you lose buisness with your individual parts) basic economics say that the total value of ALL yours guns and parts will go down. No one will want to pay for a brand new RTP, when they could just get an xvalve for $150 from a Tac One resller. A super cheap price not be a good idea, unless ALL the prices were lowered (which would rock incredibally )

[Lohman446]

If this thing goes for $350 AGD is going to have to look at selling all of their guns themselves, because they are going to have to bring the rest of the line down in price similarly. AGD is going to loose what dealer support they have (and I am already hearing people complaining that they can't buy mags or parts around them) because they are going to have to cut someone out in the middle there (BTW, maybe this is not that bad of an idea - different debate). The upgrade parts are going to have to be reevaluated on price (who's going to pay $325 no trade in on an X valve when they can get the whole marker for $350). I am not in the business, I do not know, but looking from the sidelines if you sell this thing as specified at $350 it is going to change (I was careful not to us the word harm) the entire make up of AGD. I beleive that a lot of us are asking for things that are not realistic.

[Lohman446]

Now Falcon... its not nice to post my ideas as I type them in

[judster]

as a scenario player i say ditch the ULT, the barrel- the reason behind this is each scenario producer has different paint that they use(mxs=pmi, viper=32*....) keep the x valve and lx, have them adjusted at the factory, really dont need the i frame either....but i would change the name on the valve to tac one or tac-x(i like that btw) i also like the idea of offering different versions of this gun like tippmann does, but i think in the long run, buy the gun as is and up grade it yourself.

[Tron]

Don't know if anyone said this but just undercut the tactical autococker by $20 or so which is selling really good right now.

-Tron

[CoFFeY[NiTrO]]

If there is a change in Xvalve to Classic, make a custom line of all black classic valves saying 'TaC_OnE'

[Restola]

I know I am considering getting back into the sport late winter/early spring. A gun with all the stuff I want, and scenario stuff I may someday need, is exactly what I'm looking for

Gotta have price: $350
Max: $550

[yeahthatsme]

i'd say if at all possible 350 would RULE but max something like 550.

[yeahthatsme]

and one other thing, could you maybe cut down the ASA with the rubber grip a bit? thats freaking long... maybe cut the asa in half...just a suggestion.

[Meph]

Get rid of Xvalve, nobody needs 15, 16, 18bps in Scenarioball? Oh right, guess that's why Tippmann sells RTs like crazy, eh! Not because people want to shoot that fast, they are recballers after all. They just like to say they have their Tippmann with an RT. Only reason they buy it, not for speed

Sorry bud, but recballers like to shoot fast too. Not everybody does shoot a Tippmann. Sure half might, but there is a large chunk that play Scenarios and such that use Angel, Emag, Ecocker, Imp, Timmy..... name it. Recball has people wanting and needing to shoot just as fast, so that demand is always going to be there.


I say keep in X-valve, keep in LVL10, keep in I-frame. What the hell are you people saying, remove all that. BUY A STOCK 68CLASSIC you geniuses! That's what you just made by removing all the goodies. HELLO!

But I do agree on ULT removal. Leave that an option for those that want it. I like mine but it's not something I'd want to have stock on mine. I'm always carrying around my stock on/off for in-case this decides to again act up on me as it has before. Not everybody wants to work on their marker for 5 hours shimming and tweeking just so it'll work for one game.

[GT]

Originally posted by Meph

I say keep in X-valve, keep in LVL10, keep in I-frame. What the hell are you people saying, remove all that. BUY A STOCK 68CLASSIC you geniuses! That's what you just made by removing all the goodies. HELLO!

I dont think some of you guys get it. You take a classic with an Al, or not, valve and build the tac one ule around a stock classic. It hits on a few goals:

1. cheap
2. can be customized later, which also leads to lesss loss in cost to AGD, ie they can make more money selling upgrades later


There have to be different packages availible to the player. They like to think that "they", the player, can customize it to thier liking later or they can buy it with all the crap pre-installed.

[Gadget]

I'm betting that a classic valve costs almost as much to make as an X-valve - they're only priced differently in order to differentiate the old from the new.

The only thing the classic offers over the RT-style valves is the ability to run on CO2.....which is an important feature.....for people living a decade ago.

The classic is the past, if people wanted an old-school mag they can pickup thousands of em second hand.

Anything that AGD release from now on needs to focus on their best products, not the old stuff.

[Pstan]

Low end = $350........and I'd buy one too.
High end = $500 and not a cent more.

[Meph]

gtrsi.... you're missing the point of this entire package as is. IT IS custom. It's not your average mag.

Look at KAPP flame cockers, or Free Flow cockers. People don't want the average stock stuff on these so they can upgrade later. They are buying THESE specifically becuase they are already pre-upgraded! Get it?

[GT]

Originally posted by Gadget
The only thing the classic offers over the RT-style valves is the ability to run on CO2.....which is an important feature.....for people living a decade ago.

Thats true except that the mag gets more shots out of co2 than it does on n2, like all guns. Agian more than a few folks still play out in the woods/feilds that dont have compressed air.

I believe that co2 is pretty essintial for survival.

jb

[GT]

Originally posted by Meph
gtrsi.... you're missing the point of this entire package as is. IT IS custom. It's not your average mag.

Look at KAPP flame cockers, or Free Flow cockers. People don't want the average stock stuff on these so they can upgrade later. They are buying THESE specifically becuase they are already pre-upgraded! Get it?

I agree,
however there is a need to hit certian price points in paintball. Sure folks buy high end gear however we are a. talking about a different segment of the market b. not everyone that walks into a honda dealership buys an s2000, however lots of folks buy accords and civics to suit thier basic needs

Meph I am going to end my reply here since Tom only really wants prices on the package he has listed. We can start a new topic, pm or aim?

jb

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by Gadget

The only thing the classic offers over the RT-style valves is the ability to run on CO2.....which is an important feature.....for people living a decade ago.

But for scenario players it is still used more than N2.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

Good low price: $400
Highest price: $600

I'll add my voice to those who have suggested a scaled down version with stock grip frame, classic valve, no ULT. You could easily price that profitably for $400, and take the scenario market by storm.

Many scenario and rec players still use CO2, and selling them a marker that requires HPA effectively adds $200 to the price since they have to buy a new tank.

"Looks cool","fast ROF" and "great price" are not defined by scenario players the same as tourney players. A scaled down version would satisfy the market better, IMO.

[cabldawg]

Well, I am a scenario player. I want all the bells and whistles. I haven't used a ULT trigger but I figure I can learn.
350.00 it'll be in my game bag
550.00 I'll have to think on it

[Z-man]

Lowest- $350 I'll buy one for my wall even!

Highest- $600 I would have to think a bit

2 thoughts (which have been voiced before)

1- X-Valve (or any RT valve) means that no CO2 is available. I don't do senario games (yet) but is that a significant issue or are most now stocked with HPA fills? I would want an RT based valve in there HANDS down but if the SG only has CO2 available.... I dunno you probly know the numbers..

2- ULT optional for extra $$$. I like my hard crisp valve (for various reasons ) and if one of these was made at a give away price I would sell the ULT unless something totally changes my opinion. I know many like it but if it's one more cost to the gun on say only 50% want it, save a little money and make it a $50 upgrade or something.

[Lohman446]

This thread just wants to stay with me... I want all the bells and whistles, the best mechanical mag I can get, but I only want to spend $350 new. Well... ummm... me too.

This $500 is what I would expect to pay - you drop this thing to $350 and one of two things are going to happen. A) Everyone of us that uses a mechanical mag for non-scenario play are going to buy one and throw it in our bag for a back-up marker (my biggest question now is if I want a silver or blue ULE body on it).
B) Your going to drop the mags value down so low that people no longer consider it a top end gun. Yes price does matter to people I am more likely to beleive that a marker that I pay $700 for is better than one I pay $300 for even if I am wrong.

I personally expect both of these to happen. $350 sells this thing and you will not be able to produce enough of them, they will be gone to AO before the public even gets a chance at them and most of them will not end up being the scenario marker you aimed for (unless the body is part of the rail and non-seperable). The same thing will happen as with the X-mag, great marker (I personally do not like it for the price), but the waiting list is too much.

$500 this thing still sells - is still a top end marker, and does not hurt the rest of the mag line that badly in the value category, and you can likely make enough to keep with demand.

Ok, I've debated this a lot in this thread, but I really think some of the numbers presented are not as well thought out as they could be. I could be wrong and frequently am.

[trevorjk]

if i had the extra cash id pay about 550 - 600 for it easily

i think people need to realize everything on the gun is brand new and not used so we cant even figure in resale price