Bowling

[gimp]

Anyone into bowling. We started a little league up within the frat, so I've been going a lot lately. I want to get my own ball. We just use the ones there, and the one ball I like, is the same ball everyone else likes. We end up fighting over it. So I want to get my own ball. Do you guys know what one would cost. I don't need a fancy one. The only thing I'm concerend about is the finger holes really.

[Miscue]

I bowled for years... did money leagues and all that. Last ABC sanctioned average was 200 even. I got $600 worth of bowling equipment stolen, and I stopped bowling after that and got into paintball.

Well, ball choice is really freakin complicated. What style do you have (if any) and do you know what the lane conditions are at the house you'll be bowling at?

[Miscue]

http://www.beachbowlproshop.com/page1.htm

Well, if this is your first ball and you want to start hooking it... you should start off with a urethane ball or a VERY mild cheap reactive - like a Shadow/R if they even exist anymore. If you throw it straight and don't plan on changing that, then you can just get a polyurethane (plastic) ball.

The Scout Urethane in the link above would work out well for a starter ball. Remember that you have to pay for drilling, and possibly a thumb slug (recommended) and finger inserts (recommended) for a finger-tip grip.

Also... most drillers don't know what they are doing. They are bowlers who end up working at a pro-shop and just know how to make holes. There's a lot to drilling a bowling ball. Whoever is working on your ball should seem smart and able to explain very well about how bowling balls work and the nuances of drilling. If he makes fun of other drillers who suck, or talks about how he fixes other people's crap work all the time... that's the guy you want.

You might want to take it to a shop that's not in a bowling alley, where that is all that they do... normally they have to be very good and keep loyal customers to stay in business. However, they often charge a bit more than a bowling alley does, depending. Just check around...

Also, check their prices first before you order one off the net. Normally they throw in drilling for free if you buy from them. Bowling balls off the net come in an unknown condition... typically you'll get a better ball if you buy it from a local shop. I think sometimes they sneak in seconds or something. They can also warranty it for you in the rare case that it is defective. It's generally more polite to buy the ball from the person drilling it. Just ask to see their urethane balls, it doesn't matter too much what brand or whatever... just needs to be urethane.

Now, a urethane ball has a controllable hook (if thrown correctly)... but doesn't have that big nasty curve and snap like the more expensive reactive and proactive balls - which you will not be able to utilize and will hurt your game. Now, they do not curve by themselves. If you do not throw it right, it doesn't matter what ball you use.

Also, don't be macho and go for the heavy bowling ball... that is incredibly retarded and you're gonna suck if you do that. 15 is as high as you should go even if you can handle a 16. There's nothing wrong with going with a 14 either, that's what I use... I can't hook a 15 as well.

DO NOT get it from a sporting goods store.

Another site with more stuff: http://www.bowlingindex.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv

[Collegeboy]

I have been bowling since I was five years old and only have recently stopped for lack of time.

As for what bowling ball to buy. Since you are beginning out I would either look into the Columbia 300 White Dot Range, if you like the house balls then this is the way to go, ( all other companies have there own low level balls, but I am bias towards Columbia 300 ) On the site that Miscue have shown you it is 43.99. But I am sure if you shop around you can get it cheaper. But be warned a good drill (even if the white dot drill will be full finger and straight up) will cost you about 20 dollars. So buying it from the shop where it is to be drilled is always IMO the best option when buying the cheaper balls. If you want to move up Columbia make a good beginning series of balls called the scout. The make a urethane for around 55 dollars, a reactive for around 61, and a particle for around 77. But anything about the basic urethane ball might be too much to start out.

One thing I have learned over the years is that a heavier ball is always better if you can handle it. Now when I mean handle it, I mean can you ball ten games back to back with no rest and not hurting you hands. The reason a heavy ball is better is that it transfers more weight to the pins, and makes for a better strike in the pocket. Now they make some of the expensive balls in 14 that will transfer as much weight as a 16, but for now that doesn't matter, for they are way out of what you need (and probably price range too)

[Will Wood]

I think I'm probably the worlds worst bowler

I still do it though sometimes though. Galatic Bowling is real fun..cheap.. and disco lights, music, and girls. I'll be lucky if I break 75.

Heh cool story last time I went bowling.. was the night before a paintball tourney. The feild owner was there. He said if I could beat him I'd get 10 bucks off per case. Of course he wooped my butt bowling left handed (He's right), but he's cool, still gave 10 bucks off.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
I have been bowling since I was five years old and only have recently stopped for lack of time.

As for what bowling ball to buy. Since you are beginning out I would either look into the Columbia 300 White Dot Range, if you like the house balls then this is the way to go, ( all other companies have there own low level balls, but I am bias towards Columbia 300 ) On the site that Miscue have shown you it is 43.99. But I am sure if you shop around you can get it cheaper. But be warned a good drill (even if the white dot drill will be full finger and straight up) will cost you about 20 dollars. So buying it from the shop where it is to be drilled is always IMO the best option when buying the cheaper balls. If you want to move up Columbia make a good beginning series of balls called the scout. The make a urethane for around 55 dollars, a reactive for around 61, and a particle for around 77. But anything about the basic urethane ball might be too much to start out.

One thing I have learned over the years is that a heavier ball is always better if you can handle it. Now when I mean handle it, I mean can you ball ten games back to back with no rest and not hurting you hands. The reason a heavy ball is better is that it transfers more weight to the pins, and makes for a better strike in the pocket. Now they make some of the expensive balls in 14 that will transfer as much weight as a 16, but for now that doesn't matter, for they are way out of what you need (and probably price range too)

Hogwash. Entry angle is way more important than weight. Tested by strike robots, there is not a significant advantage between 14s, 15s, and 16s. Being able to physically "handle" the ball without getting tired is bare minimum. The correct ball that you can consistently put a good amount of consistent RPMs on, AND get down the lane is what is important. The weight that you can throw exactly the same way, everytime for a duration = the one you should get.

A White dot is good for a spareball. It's a polyurethane 3-piece pancake, I believe... that has a higher hardness rating on the durometer. Also good to start with if you do not ever plan on hooking the ball.

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by Miscue


Hogwash. Entry angle is way more important than weight. Tested by strike robots, there is not a significant advantage between 14s, 15s, and 16s. Being able to physically "handle" the ball without getting tired is bare minimum. The correct ball that you can consistently put a good amount of consistent RPMs on, AND get down the lane is what is important. The weight that you can throw exactly the same way, everytime for a duration = the one you should get.

A White dot is good for a spareball. It's a polyurethane 3-piece pancake, I believe... that has a higher hardness rating on the durometer. Also good to start with if you do not ever plan on hooking the ball.

Some people never learn.

Entry angle is important. That is why with a white dot that has an 8 board movement the best place to throw it normally is in between the third and second arrow with a suitcase style hold on the ball. If you get the entry level perfect and you have a light ball it will knock down the pins. But miss the entry point slightly and you will more then likely leave a split for the ball doesn't have the carry through that a 16 pound ball has. The 16 pound ball allows you some room for error. And with the changing conditions of the lanes, room for error is always needed in bowling.

I use a white dot for spare, but for strikes I use one of 7 balls, lane one buzzsaw, Columbia rock star (probably my least favorite for it was the worst one drilled), Columbia extreme chaos (my favorite), icon 300, icon, or wow pearl.

[RRfireblade]

Geez.....

A few simple points.

DO buy from a proshop located in a bowling establishment.

DO NOT buy from a off site retailer.

NO bowling ball moves any number of boards,it's the bowler.

Throw the heaviest ball you can handle,it promotes a more natural arm swing.

Basically, go see your pro shop,tell them your budget and where you would like your game to go.

Any good proshop employee will go out and watch you throw a few balls which is the ONLY way to make a ball recommendation.Be honest about your game and what you expect out of it.And lastly,go down during league night and see what the higher average bowlers are using,that will give you a small insight as to what might be effective at those lanes and typical conditions.Use that info only if your stuck with the final decision.

Jay.

[beam]

Maybe once you get up to the 14 lb. ball it doesn't make any difference, but I do know that a heavier ball will drive through the set, hence giving you more pin action. Lighter balls tend to "bounce" off the pocket and you can leave a lot of standing 5 pins. But like I said, that may not even be an issue with a 14 lb ball.

Anyway, since you are just starting, ball won't matter THAT much. However, learning the fundamentals will. It drives me crazy to go to a bowling alley during league play and see all these stupid-contorted-strained-crazy-etc deliveries. I mean, I saw one guy (he was a big guy) with such a high back swing that he had hit the score monitors before.

Consistency is key.

[Collegeboy]

The ball will move on its own depending on the amount that you drill your holes away from the pin according to the shape of the block.

I can take my icon 300, flatten it out and throw it off the 12 board; it will go out to the 3 and cut back into the pocket.

But you all are correct proper technique is best. That is why I am a huge fan of having everyone learn how to handle a ball before worrying about what type of ball. IE. Learn the proper stance, delivery, release, angle of movement, proper hand position after throwing it, do you follow through to your ear, or your forehead. Do you take a 5 step approach, 4 steps, or three? How slow shall you throw the ball? Is it better for you to throw it suit case style or straight up (which I do not recommend) All of which is more important then what type of ball.

As to the difference between the 14 and the 16. My father owns a 14 pound icon; I own a 16 pound icon. We have the same grip size and distance, same position of the pin. I can throw his ball and will leave a lot of splits or the dreaded standing 5’s, I will throw mine and will normally plow right on through.

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
The ball will move on its own depending on the amount that you drill your holes away from the pin according to the shape of the block.

Not true,it still must be rolled correctly thus "the bowler", any given ball has only hook potential that may or may not be realized depending on the release.We have a guy in my Monday night league that throws a Duece from the left side and "backs it up" 15-20 boards and it's drilled as a typical right hander.

As far as weight,there is little differance between 14-16.Most higher average bowlers I know,including me ,throw 15lbs max as synthetic lanes combined with reactive balls = to much drive.

And FYI, I carried a 206 average on a sport condition using a 13lb ball(Quantum sage tour)after wrist surgery as that was all I could handle.

Jay.

[Collegeboy]

I can take my icon 300 flatten it out (ie no spin on the ball, throw it straight and it will hook) Once the ball reaches its point of geration (I think that is the word), the balls natural momentum will case it to spin in the way it was drilled. I.E. The ball will naturally curve.

And I keep a 198 average on the worst lanes in the world (we had a pro bowler come down and bowl, he averaged 212 on the circuit, and out of 3 games had a 164 average). But what does that matter. It doesn't. A heavy ball allows for a great chance at getting by with errors. If you can handle a heavier ball, heavier is just about always better.

[shartley]

I say get an 8 lb ball and a bunch of hand grenades. You roll the ball and if it does not knock everything down, you toss down your grenade!

Problem solved…….. Old School Military Way!

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
And I keep a 198 average on the worst lanes in the world (we had a pro bowler come down and bowl, he averaged 212 on the circuit, and out of 3 games had a 164 average).

Sounds like YOU should go pro.

[SlipknotX556]

My 12 and 11 year old brothers are like bowling freaks, they are at the bowling lanes like 6 days a week. Its alot of money to bowl.

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by shartley
I say get an 8 lb ball and a bunch of hand grenades. You roll the ball and if it does not knock everything down, you toss down your grenade!

Problem solved…….. Old School Military Way!

Now that is what I am talking about. But man the cost of the pins alone would kill me.

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

Originally posted by SlipknotX556
My 12 and 11 year old brothers are like bowling freaks, they are at the bowling lanes like 6 days a week. Its alot of money to bowl.

Yah but bowling is still cheaper than paintball.


And I can't bowl because of my monsterously huge hands.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Collegeboy


Some people never learn.

Entry angle is important. That is why with a white dot that has an 8 board movement the best place to throw it normally is in between the third and second arrow with a suitcase style hold on the ball. If you get the entry level perfect and you have a light ball it will knock down the pins. But miss the entry point slightly and you will more then likely leave a split for the ball doesn't have the carry through that a 16 pound ball has. The 16 pound ball allows you some room for error. And with the changing conditions of the lanes, room for error is always needed in bowling.

I use a white dot for spare, but for strikes I use one of 7 balls, lane one buzzsaw, Columbia rock star (probably my least favorite for it was the worst one drilled), Columbia extreme chaos (my favorite), icon 300, icon, or wow pearl.

You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about... so don't you correct me. I understand what you are saying, and it is a one-dimensional view point that is incorrect.

A HORRIBLE thing to recommend to someone is to use too much weight. It is also very bad to recommend too light of a weight.

From: http://www.youthbowling.com/ballwt.htm

"The investigation used ten shots that were rolled at quarter-inch offset increments for 0.5 inches to 5.5 inches for a total of 210 shots per entry angle. The two degree angle represents those who roll a minimal hook; the four degree shot represents a 'stroker's' hook; and the six degree entry represents a 'cranker's' hook. Statistical calculations were made to develop "Strike Probability" charts versus weight and angle of entry data. The strike area was computed to include areas which included 70% strikes. The results clearly demonstrate that the width of the strike pocket increases with the entry angle. For example, a 16-pound ball with a six degree entry angle results in a strike pocket 3.25 inches wide. Dropping down in weight to either a 14 or 15-pound ball the strike pocket becomes a little less to about three inches which is only a quarter of an inch less than a 16-pounder. This demonstrates that 14 and 15 pound balls do not give up very much strike-ability and can give nearly the same percentage of strikes as 16-pounders. "

[Miscue]

Originally posted by RRfireblade


Not true,it still must be rolled correctly thus "the bowler", any given ball has only hook potential that may or may not be realized depending on the release.We have a guy in my Monday night league that throws a Duece from the left side and "backs it up" 15-20 boards and it's drilled as a typical right hander.

As far as weight,there is little differance between 14-16.Most higher average bowlers I know,including me ,throw 15lbs max as synthetic lanes combined with reactive balls = to much drive.

And FYI, I carried a 206 average on a sport condition using a 13lb ball(Quantum sage tour)after wrist surgery as that was all I could handle.

Jay.

Well, the ball will move a tad if you kick it down the lane because of the weight block's built-in instability... but this is a moot point.

The issue is whether you can make use of the ball's characteristics to score points. A ball works only as well as the bowler throwing it. To take advantage of higher-end bowling balls requires someone with experience.

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Miscue


The issue is whether you can make use of the ball's characteristics to score points. A ball works only as well as the bowler throwing it. To take advantage of higher-end bowling balls requires someone with experience.

Exactly my point.I've been drilling balls for 10-12 years now and it's hard to get people to understand that.They all want to buy a snap hook and can't understand way it doesn't work that way.

Jay.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by RRfireblade


Exactly my point.I've been drilling balls for 10-12 years now and it's hard to get people to understand that.They all want to buy a snap hook and can't understand way it doesn't work that way.

Jay.

Hehe, yup. I've had people with the same ball as me, ask me why their ball doesn't hook as much as mine. I'd point out how mine is rotating at 45 degrees. "How come mine doesn't do that?" No no no! YOU have to do that!

Higher revs and good ball speed = more skid/more snap. For some reason people don't understand that. And it didn't help them any when these fools bought Quantum Helix's! Most expensive spare ball on Earth...

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Miscue



Did you have issues with ball selection with a 13lb? If I remember, usually the 13's don't have the fancy weight-blocks.

That's why I picked a Quantum,probably the most advanced ball at the time,they had designed completely different weight blocks for each weighted ball. That thing carried A TON.It was hard giving it up to go heavier but as my strength came back,I was starting to overthrow it.

I'm really concerned now,since my accident,my shoulders in bad shape.I don't know how bad till Thursday when I see the neurologist.I'm afraid to pick up a ball right now.

Fingers crossed.

Jay.

Edit: I actually threw a Helix for a while and liked it,except for it cracking every 2 weeks.My cost on it however,was no where near retail.

[Miscue]

Yeah, and the most freakin' expensive.

I went through the Zone line-up at about that time period... I think Quantums were a little before that though with some overlap.

Then I stuck with Track for a few years... I liked their Hot Coral, but fell in love with the Heat and Elite... I still have one of those in the closet. If I start again I'll have to throw it in the oven and juice it. Then I used Columbia up until I quit playing... impressed with their affordable Messenger line.

I've gone through so many bowling balls... it's ridiculous. One day I'll get my own drill press and get wholesale accounts or something. The goal I set in the back of my mind is to raise my weight to 165 and then I can bowl again, with a lot more strength. Otherwise I'll just get pissed, having already reached what I think to have been my pinnacle.

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Miscue
I've gone through so many bowling balls... it's ridiculous. One day I'll get my own drill press and get wholesale accounts or something.

The only way to go.

I've got a real good friend I helped start a Proshop and can reap some of the benifits from.Otherwise ball whoreing can get a tad expensive.I'm pretty much stuck on Storm stuff right now though.Just drilled up a few new balls I'm really liking so I think they will hold me for a little while.

Jay.

[Lohman446]

Oh yeh... well, umm... I have a bowling ball imported from a company made of three letters in Europe. It has like, an electrourethetic shell on it, thus making it better than all mechanical bowling balls. Furthermore it can tell me the temperature of the air and the lane, allowing me to adjust its reactivity to get past those nasty bowling ball judges and such. So there I'm a better bowler than all y'all.

BTW - I know nothing about bowling, the most fun I have had bowling involved doing it on a lane we bought for a bench (we used it outside as a lane for a day first) at our old house and a .45 pistol .

[Miscue]

Originally posted by RRfireblade

DO buy from a proshop located in a bowling establishment.

DO NOT buy from a off site retailer.

Well, I mentioned that because it worked for me in my particular situation. When I started getting serious with the game, I wasted a couple of years because the proshop guys screwed up my drilling. I was having release problems, and they blamed it on me... and said I was squeezing the ball... and I was beginning to believe it.

Someone on one of my league teams said he had similar issues, and took it to some guy in town and fixed his balls. I went to see him, talked to him for a bit and he was infinitely more helpful than any other proshop guy I had dealt with. He measured my ball, measured my hand, and described to me my release problems before I told him.

The spans were not correct for my hand, nor the pitchs... I had multiple balls drilled by multiple people... each with problems.

Some hands are more difficult than others to properly fit to a ball... mine is one of them. He's trained drillers and I think taught seminars and stuff, stressing physiological differences between different hands and how they need to be accounted for.

So, in my case going outside of a bowling alley to get my stuff drilled was the best thing I did for my game, besides practice. My average quickly went from 150 to 180, and topped out at 190-200 in about a year. But, I suppose it is a matter of finding a talented driller, where ever he might work at.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by RRfireblade



I'm really concerned now,since my accident,my shoulders in bad shape.I don't know how bad till Thursday when I see the neurologist.I'm afraid to pick up a ball right now.

Fingers crossed.

Jay.

Well, I hope that everything works out for you...

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by Miscue


You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about... so don't you correct me. I understand what you are saying, and it is a one-dimensional view point that is incorrect.

A HORRIBLE thing to recommend to someone is to use too much weight. It is also very bad to recommend too light of a weight.

From: http://www.youthbowling.com/ballwt.htm

"The investigation used ten shots that were rolled at quarter-inch offset increments for 0.5 inches to 5.5 inches for a total of 210 shots per entry angle. The two degree angle represents those who roll a minimal hook; the four degree shot represents a 'stroker's' hook; and the six degree entry represents a 'cranker's' hook. Statistical calculations were made to develop "Strike Probability" charts versus weight and angle of entry data. The strike area was computed to include areas which included 70% strikes. The results clearly demonstrate that the width of the strike pocket increases with the entry angle. For example, a 16-pound ball with a six degree entry angle results in a strike pocket 3.25 inches wide. Dropping down in weight to either a 14 or 15-pound ball the strike pocket becomes a little less to about three inches which is only a quarter of an inch less than a 16-pounder. This demonstrates that 14 and 15 pound balls do not give up very much strike-ability and can give nearly the same percentage of strikes as 16-pounders. "

You just proved my point, thanks.

A heavier ball allows for a greater chance at striking even with mistakes. That is if you can handle the ball.

[Python14]

Holy crap. Other than the few posts that Mr. Kaye makes, I don't think that I've ever seen a technical arguement this heated before.


I suck at bowling, but have fun anyway. I think my average is around 120 or 122

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Collegeboy


You just proved my point, thanks.

A heavier ball allows for a greater chance at striking even with mistakes. That is if you can handle the ball.

Read this again, and again, and again: "This demonstrates that 14 and 15 pound balls do not give up very much strike-ability and can give nearly the same percentage of strikes as 16-pounders."

Note that the difference is negligible. Now, read it again and tell yourself: There is LITTLE difference between the weights. Dolt.

More weight than is comfortable = WAY lower percentage of strikes cuz you aren't even getting it in the pocket very well... versus worthless percentage increase of a 16lb'er that does make it in.