Automag v. Autococker

[kornbread]

I'm mostly a woodsball player. I want a reliable and consistant marker, and I've been looking at the Tac One.

It seems like just about everyone at our local field has an autococker, and I was just wondering what are the differences between a comparable mechanical autococker and a Tac One. To be honest there is one thing that I really know about autocockers, and that is that I don't like how they look. Other than that I don't know much about them.

What are the main differences?

thanks

[shades]

Too much to get dirty an foul up with a cocker when you are playing in the woods. Also, if you drop it or hit against a tree you can Knock it out of time. Too many moving parts.
A Mag has one major moving part (the Bolt) and that is enclosed. THIS is the NUMBER ONE reason that Mags are awesome IMO. Simple in function. Quality made. Tough. and MAD fast (fastest accually). Heck the WHOLE marker IS the Valve. No little tubes hanging around to get caught in the brush and twigs like on the rock no a Cocker.
If you MUST have a closed bolt get the BEST. A Blazer.
It has Quality and closed bolt and all the mechanics are enclosed in the marker.

[RapidTransit]

An Autococker in the simpelest form is a semi-auto pump gun. Think about how overly complicated that concept is and decide what's best for you.

[Little_Ho]

Hi

I would choose a Mag over an Cocker, in my Team there are quite a few Mech Cockers. They all ended up to be timed or fixed.

the most comen Problem is the 3way. Dirt and Damaged O-rings. After you install new O-Rings you need to time it.

I would go with the mag. I used several Mags and I love them. The most People underestimated the Mag in the Woods. My Setup:



I know its a smal pic but you can figure out what its looks like.....

The most thing I like is, I go to a Field and they Kiddies starting to stare at the Frame And then Ill get comments like how did you get a Angle Frame on that thing what is it or wow is that a new Angle??????

Little_Ho

[Asym]

I now own an automag and a cocker and prefer the mag, but there are pros and cons to both types of guns.

Both have a trigger system that you have to get used to. You have to make complete pulls on the mag or you shortstroke, on a cocker you have to do the same or sometimes it won't catch the hammer on its loading cycle, this is related to timing but on the new trilogies you can't adjust the timing only the length of your hammers sear catch which will give it a longer feeling pull.

Only the classic valved mags should be used with CO2 and most don't recommend it. I used CO2 for years and it worked perfect with mine. The RT/X valves require HPA tanks. All mags are considered high pressure, classics should have 600+ PSI and RT/x need 800+ PSI. Cockers should be run with a reg, newer low end trilogies like the sport come without a reg but has a more restrictive valve installed so its not required(this is the main reg, not the low pressure reg for the cocking system that is requred). The cocker can be run low pressure, this makes it much easier to run CO2 with a good reg that will handle it.

"If" a cocker is setup properly it will be more efficient than the automag, so more shots per tank.

I like the size and feel of the mag more than the cocker. Try both out if you can to see which you do prefer.

[neppo1345]

it all comes down to one issue:

Elves make cockers shoot further

that is all.

-tim

[kjjm4]

I have been a cocker owner for 5 years, but only recently bought a mag. I always see posts about how cockers are unreliable, break all the time, etc, etc, etc. The truth is, they are very reliable. 90% of the time, when they break down, its because the user messed them up by messing with something when they have no clue what they're doing. I have only had my cocker go down 1 time when I was playing with it. I am primarily a scenario player, I play in the woods, and when its cold and wet, too. I wouldn't really consider myself abusive of my markers, but they do get used.

Between cockers and mags, reliability is a non-issue, in my opinion. Routine maintenance (cleaning and oiling) and maybe an occasional o-ring replacement, are all you'll really need to do.

The primary differences between the two are feel and design. A mag is smaller, but not lighter. They both have their pros and cons. I like them both. Try before you buy, and see which one you like.

[Cow hunter]

I have been a cocker owner for 5 years, but only recently bought a mag. I always see posts about how cockers are unreliable, break all the time, etc, etc, etc. The truth is, they are very reliable. 90% of the time, when they break down, its because the user messed them up by messing with something when they have no clue what they're doing. I have only had my cocker go down 1 time when I was playing with it. I am primarily a scenario player, I play in the woods, and when its cold and wet, too. I wouldn't really consider myself abusive of my markers, but they do get used.

Between cockers and mags, reliability is a non-issue, in my opinion. Routine maintenance (cleaning and oiling) and maybe an occasional o-ring replacement, are all you'll really need to do.

The primary differences between the two are feel and design. A mag is smaller, but not lighter. They both have their pros and cons. I like them both. Try before you buy, and see which one you like.

id agree, but what do you do when your cocker needs a tune up or you have a new part? messing with a cocker is inebitable, and they are problematic sometimes. i have used both and prefer the mag for its looks, feel, trigger, speed, upgradability, and durability. just recently to spite me, three of my friends went and bought cockers, a prostock, a system X, and a trilogy. that was a month ago, now they wished they listened to me and bought a mag. all three have had problems, not touching them mind you, sitting in a gear bag they became messed up somehow. two of them have gotten new markers and the third cant sell his. i do love the feel of cockers, and would recomend them for people who will actually care for their marker, but the mag is just so much easier to care for.

[Bozark]

If you play woods ball, an Autococker will work great aswell, just get a front block cap for it (they're like 10 bucks) and you'll be set, not to bash mags, cause both are amazing. in the end, it all comes down to what you want to do.

[Big Boy]

I personaly love autocockers, but I love mags as well. If you don't know what you are doing with a cocker though, it is not for you. They are two completely different guns, the way they work are just....way different...

[kornbread]

I'm all about simplicity, which is one reason I am leaning towards the automag. The second reason I have been leaning toward the Tac One is that apparenlty with the level 10 bolt, little elves carefully chaimber each paintball.

Let me know if these assumptions are correct. Thanks.

PS Thanks for all of the feedback!

[Stealth Fighter]

No chops with a Level 10 almost guarunteed if tuned correctly, now a autococker on the other hand, that is another story.

[Surestick]

Well, if the 'cocker is tuned correctly you can get it to pinch balls instead of chopping - essentially mechanical anti-chop like the lvl 10.
Of course it's not as easy as installing a lvl 10.

[cowboy_00]

Emag...

Sometimes in the woods (im a purely scenario player) you need to able to lay some cover fire down. and there is nothing better for it then switching to hyper hybrid and opening up a can-o' 25-35bps-whoop ***.

but even if you just leave it in mech mode to conserve its pretty quiet and depending on your setup it low-profile and light.

Some ppl like the purely mechanical tac one. but just get an Emag and put a tac one body on it.

that way you get the best of both..

I love my emags.


just my 2.

p.s. Our team shop now has 3 other peoples autocockers while we almost never have a broken mag come in.

[PnueMagger]

When I play woodsball, I like to use my cocker because it has a flatter trejectory allowing it to shoot further is some scenarios where there is brush. My mag tends to "lob" balls which is adventageous for indoor play or speedball games where the extra range isn't necessary. It all comes down closed bolt accuracy. Bud Orr even states they are "the most accurate markers in the world".

So if you are buying for strictly woodsball, get a cocker. The timing issue is overrated. In fact, I often tine mine between every other game. It only takes 5 mins. As far as looks, there are infinate external upgrades to make your gat a contract killa.

[syl58]

i play woodsball and have both. they are simlar in performace, but i prefer the mag because there is less that can go wrong. Go with the mag, but the cocker is going to be cheaper

[ThePixelGuru]

When I play woodsball, I like to use my cocker because it has a flatter trejectory allowing it to shoot further is some scenarios where there is brush. My mag tends to "lob" balls which is adventageous for indoor play or speedball games where the extra range isn't necessary. It all comes down closed bolt accuracy. Bud Orr even states they are "the most accurate markers in the world".

Oh man, please don't bring this **** up again. Any marker will have the same trajectory as any other provided they're at the same velocity and you're not using an Apex/Flatline/Z-Body/whatever. It's simple physics. Also, closed bolt isn't more accurate (WARPIG proved it), and of course Bud Orr says they're the most accurate in the world. What company/manufacturer/rep doesn't?

Also, kornbread, keep in mind you're asking the 'cocker vs. 'mag question on Automags.org. You'll probably get totally opposite answers if you ask over on Air-Powered.com. It's personal preference. Basically, if you like tinkering, get a 'cocker, if you want to be able to beat up someone's car with your marker, get a 'mag.

[PnueMagger]

How do you figure PixelGuru? The Closed bolt design is the whole concept behind the acuracy/efficiency of a paintball gun. Even the new shockers have the new SFT "seal forward technology" AKA (closed bolt).

[Surestick]

The Closed bolt design is the whole concept behind the acuracy/efficiency of a paintball gun.

Consistency, good paint (round) and paint to barrel match are what gives you accuraccy.
None of those have anything to do with closed vs open bolt.

[Stealth Fighter]

Well automags shoot flatter because they blow forward, autocockers just blow.

[ThePixelGuru]

How do you figure PixelGuru? The Closed bolt design is the whole concept behind the acuracy/efficiency of a paintball gun. Even the new shockers have the new SFT "seal forward technology" AKA (closed bolt).

And the whole concept of rifled barrels is to spin the paintball, creating a vortex behind it and keeping the paintball going straight. That doesn't mean it works.

EDIT: And I doubt any marker company or rep would claim their particular bolt system gets more range. Unless they're Smart Parts. Or Jack Wood. Probably some others, too. In these cases, physics is wrong.

[ThePixelGuru]

Found the WARIPIG thing. Link.

By testing under controlled circumstances we were able to isolate the subject of our test (the bolt operation) from the other variables involved. Firing our marker as an open bolt, blowback operated semi-automatic, we found the same level of accuracy, as when firing as a manually operated closed bolt marker. Our conclusion - the great "inherent accuracy" of closed bolt markers over open bolt markers is a myth.

[FinchMan]

and the shocker SFT is just a marketing ploy. The "seal forward" in a shocker is just like any other open bolt gun. the bolt is still in motion when the air is released. The "great accuracy" of closed bolt guns would come from the ball being perfectly still in the breach when the air is released.

[RapidTransit]

So if the ball is moving its gonna change its tragectory when pressure is applied

Cockers are said to be more accurate because of my previous statement that Cockers are a semi auto pump. They based this philosophy on the wrong fact of why pump guns are more accurate.

Drop a ball in a funnel which way is it gonna go at the end?

[Dark Frost17]

I started off with a mag in woodsball and use it for everything.....but started to build a cocker jsut to see what they are like.....2 Different Worlds of working!!!

[Coralis]

One major thing you can say that a mag has over a cocker is that someone with little or no airsmithing experiencing can strip down a mag and replace all the oring and reassemble the mag in less than a half hour and this will fix 90 percent of the problems a mag will have ..... (well a classic valved mag anyway)

[Recon by Fire]

Just get the Tac One! It is better all around than any mech autococker. More durable, more reliable, faster, and better looking. Make sure you get the ULT and an adjustable HPA tank if possible.

On the other hand, get the autococker if you plan on using CO2.


Ever time an automag?

[kornbread]

Also, kornbread, keep in mind you're asking the 'cocker vs. 'mag question on Automags.org. You'll probably get totally opposite answers if you ask over on Air-Powered.com.

I have actually tried a couple of times to post on air-powered.com and apparently I don't have the necessary permissions. It actually made me fill a bit silly, since I'm an IT major, that I coudn't figure out how to post there. I probably need to talk with a mod.....

Thanks for bringing up the good point.

[peteralexander78]

I have bought 4 mags. I have had a classic and an X valve. The best thing about a mag is the level 10. I live in washington state. It rains a lot here. I played one day with my friends that have angels, timmys, shockers, cockers. All of them are having problems because of the rain. Paint is breaking in their barrels and from the bolts. I was the only one that played the whole time with out any problems. I also have a friend that is always getting his cocker fixed. He has a revenge and it is very nice. Shoots around 180psi. He can get a lot more shots off his tank than I can. Well it would be nice if my mag was like that but I would rather have reliablity over more shots off a tank. I wouldnt trade my mag for a $1500 gun. No, I would. But then I would just sell it and buy a really nice mag!

[ThePixelGuru]

One major thing you can say that a mag has over a cocker is that someone with little or no airsmithing experiencing can strip down a mag and replace all the oring and reassemble the mag in less than a half hour and this will fix 90 percent of the problems a mag will have ..... (well a classic valved mag anyway)

I'd say 'cockers are just as easy, at least if you're pulling it apart completely. They're not tougher, just more spread out and it takes more tools. Anyone can learn pretty fast if someone just shows them what to do, and that's the only way people should learn to strip down markers anyway.