more info on RT

[snoopay700]

Thanks for the info! I haven't cleaned out the inside, only because it hadn't been used since hte shop gave it the once-over. I'll clean it out when I replace all the rings when the parts kit comes in.

Where can I get a 'higehr pressure' regulator piston assembly? I'm guessing the one from airgun.com is the factory replacement for the original, which won't be any higher pressure?

(sorry again for mag n00b questions, and thanks for the help!!!!)

Actually, that could be why mine was leaking, i never thought about that. Anyway the one on the site works with a level 10, so it's a higher pressure one. Once you get that, which will be about 20 bucks i think (i linked it before) then you'll be all set to go.

[marked74]

Awesome! Thanks for the help everyone. Once I get the parts kit, level 10, and the regulator in (I'll go order the reg now), and get them installed, and tune the level 10 (probably have 100 more questions on that...), I'll post back with my results. I dry fired it about 20 times, and then about 7 or 8 balls into a bush in front of my house, and I fell in love with this thing. I can't wait!

BTW, for play this weekend, I'll be using either a Tippman 98 custom, or a stock Spyder. Wish me luck

[snoopay700]

Awesome! Thanks for the help everyone. Once I get the parts kit, level 10, and the regulator in (I'll go order the reg now), and get them installed, and tune the level 10 (probably have 100 more questions on that...), I'll post back with my results. I dry fired it about 20 times, and then about 7 or 8 balls into a bush in front of my house, and I fell in love with this thing. I can't wait!

BTW, for play this weekend, I'll be using either a Tippman 98 custom, or a stock Spyder. Wish me luck

Man, i love spyders, didn't have HPA for my RT and my old mag had a bolt that wouldn't work with co2 so i used my spyder at my friend's and i ended up bunkering people with way more expensive guns. It was awesome, plus i've got a soft spot for em cause it was my first paintball gun.

[marked74]

Actually, that could be why mine was leaking, i never thought about that. Anyway the one on the site works with a level 10, so it's a higher pressure one. Once you get that, which will be about 20 bucks i think (i linked it before) then you'll be all set to go.

For anyone else interested, I have confirmed from AGDs website that the regulator piston they sell, which snoopay linked to, is adjusted for the Level 10:

This part has been set to the stock higher pressure for the Level 10 bolt kit.

One of these days I'll understand what all this stuff does, and why I need a higher pressure regulator piston with the bolt change...

[marked74]

Man, i love spyders, didn't have HPA for my RT and my old mag had a bolt that wouldn't work with co2 so i used my spyder at my friend's and i ended up bunkering people with way more expensive guns. It was awesome, plus i've got a soft spot for em cause it was my first paintball gun.

I fired this particular Spyder at our testing area. It's got decent velocity, accuracy seemed ok, but it's LOUD. Way louder than any other gun that anyone had there that day. Guns ranged from this spyder to customized Tippman 98s to BT-5s (I think that's what they're called) to Angels and probably an Ego. Everyone knew exactly where the guy with the Spyder was Should be easy to mod though huh?

[snoopay700]

For anyone else interested, I have confirmed from AGDs website that the regulator piston they sell, which snoopay linked to, is adjusted for the Level 10:

This part has been set to the stock higher pressure for the Level 10 bolt kit.

One of these days I'll understand what all this stuff does, and why I need a higher pressure regulator piston with the bolt change...

The bolt slowly leaks air for the first half of it's travel, and then it acts like a normal mag bolt. This allows it to stop on any obstruction as well as making you have to have your velocity adjuster in more, raising the pressure in the dump chamber. This higher pressure can be too much for the piston tuned for the pressures used for a level 7 bolt, so it can leak, as the regulator piston is set to let off pressure when the pressure is too great so you can't shoot at dangerous levels.

As for modding a spyder, i'm trying to get access to a mill so i can make mine top cocking because i got bored and cut off the back, and now i need to polish it. It's my project gun, since it was only $60

[athomas]

The bolt slowly leaks air for the first half of it's travel, and then it acts like a normal mag bolt. This allows it to stop on any obstruction as well as making you have to have your velocity adjuster in more, raising the pressure in the dump chamber. This higher pressure can be too much for the piston tuned for the pressures used for a level 7 bolt, so it can leak, as the regulator piston is set to let off pressure when the pressure is too great so you can't shoot at dangerous levels.

Close.

The amount of force the bolt exerts on anything in the breach is directly related to the pressure in the chamber and the diameter of the bolt stem. Since the starting diameter of the bolt stem is smaller than the level 7 bolt stem the resulting force is also lower. As soon as the small part of the bolt stem releases from the seal, the larger part of the stem becomes active so the bolt has a higher forward force and can maintain a high enough cycle speed. A side effect of having a smaller starting stem is that the opening it seals is also smaller which results in less air flow at the same pressure. To compensate for the reduced flow, you need a higher pressure. Thus, the level 10 setups operate at a higher chamber pressure. The smaller starting diameter of the bolt stem still results in lower impact force even at a higher chamber pressure.

[snoopay700]

Close.

The amount of force the bolt exerts on anything in the breach is directly related to the pressure in the chamber and the diameter of the bolt stem. Since the starting diameter of the bolt stem is smaller than the level 7 bolt stem the resulting force is also lower. As soon as the small part of the bolt stem releases from the seal, the larger part of the stem becomes active so the bolt has a higher forward force and can maintain a high enough cycle speed. A side effect of having a smaller starting stem is that the opening it seals is also smaller which results in less air flow at the same pressure. To compensate for the reduced flow, you need a higher pressure. Thus, the level 10 setups operate at a higher chamber pressure. The smaller starting diameter of the bolt stem still results in lower impact force even at a higher chamber pressure.

I feel stupid, i should have realized that, all this time i figured it was the hole making you need a higher pressure. Gah, second flub with this kind of stuff in a few days.

[athomas]

I feel stupid, i should have realized that, all this time i figured it was the hole making you need a higher pressure. Gah, second flub with this kind of stuff in a few days.

Its a common misconception that alot of people make. The vent action just happens too slow in the whole scheme of things, to have that kind of affect. I suspect it does affect the operation if the setup is not done right, which is why you sometimes get a chuff during high rates of fire if the marker has a tiny bit of bolt stick. The bolt stick slows down the forward action such that some air vents out of the chamber before the small stem leaves the oring. Once enough of the air is removed, the pressure drops below the value needed to push the bolt forward and you get a chuff and the bolt resets.

[marked74]

Wow - thanks for all the info! Simple system, few moving parts, pretty basic physics. And yet it always sounds complicated, at least to me. If I could see inside the marker when it was firing, and see exactly where pressure changes and things were happening, it would make more sense. That's just how my brain works - I need to see things happening to 'get' it.

[211]

Level 10 is great
but I dont recomend sticking your head in there

[trevorjk]

Level 10 is great
but I dont recomend sticking your head in there

why not, Tom Kaye put his tongue in there

[snoopay700]

why not, Tom Kaye put his tongue in there

My policy is when he tests it on his little guy i'll trust it with my finger

[marked74]

Fedex tracking says my shipment from Action Village was delivered today. Tonight I should be able to get started on the level 10 upgrade. I won't be able to button it all back up and test until I get my AGD order in that has the regulator piston, but I can at least get started.

[Beemer]

Wow - thanks for all the info! Simple system, few moving parts, pretty basic physics. And yet it always sounds complicated, at least to me. If I could see inside the marker when it was firing, and see exactly where pressure changes and things were happening, it would make more sense. That's just how my brain works - I need to see things happening to 'get' it.

Here is some more for you.


http://home.comcast.net/~beemer2/RT.avi Animation 9meg.

http://www.airgundesignsusa.com/down...oexploded1.pdf

http://www.airgundesignsusa.com/Images/rtmanual.pdf

[211]

So youve got a leak out the back
could be the reg piston, OR its a classic RT they are notorious for leaking from the banjo bolt (the rear frame screw with the orings on it)
if the reg piston doesnt stop the leak check out the orings on the banjo bolt, if their bad replace them, if their good try tightening or loosening the banjo bolt and see if the leak goes away

[marked74]

I'm on it - thanks for the tips!

One question about the bolt I pulled out, which I've been told is a Lvl 7. Does the Lvl 7 have a foamie? Now that I know what a foamie is , the bolt coming out (in favor of the Lvl 10 I just got) has a foamie...

[snoopay700]

I'm on it - thanks for the tips!

One question about the bolt I pulled out, which I've been told is a Lvl 7. Does the Lvl 7 have a foamie? Now that I know what a foamie is , the bolt coming out (in favor of the Lvl 10 I just got) has a foamie...

Some do, but only older mags, to my knowledge the RT never had one unless someone replaced it. Does it have 3 holes or a lot of holes in the face of the bolt, and is the bottom of the bolt just flat, or does it go flat, then angle up, then straight up before the ledge that the spring sits on?

[marked74]

Some do, but only older mags, to my knowledge the RT never had one unless someone replaced it. Does it have 3 holes or a lot of holes in the face of the bolt, and is the bottom of the bolt just flat, or does it go flat, then angle up, then straight up before the ledge that the spring sits on?

Looking down the barrel of the bolt (where the foamie is) - is that the face? There's three holes there. The seat where the spring sits is recessed, not flat - sounds like what you are describing where it's flat then angles up then straight up. Hopefully these pictures will help:

[snoopay700]

There we go, the pictures will make this easier. All bolts are recessed like that so the sear will catch, but in the second picture all the way to the right you see the edge of the catch, right?does it look something like this

/...|
/___| when looked at from the side or something more like this

/....|
/___/

Sort of hard to describe, but the level 10 doesn't go straight down, that part is cut away to save weight i think. If when your bolt sits on your marker you see space between the bottom of your bolt and the bumper on only the side but not the middle you already have a level 10, my RT came with a foamieless level 7 and i though they'd done away with the foamie level 7s by then.

The dots are because the spaces didn't stay.

[trevorjk]

Looking down the barrel of the bolt (where the foamie is) - is that the face? There's three holes there. The seat where the spring sits is recessed, not flat - sounds like what you are describing where it's flat then angles up then straight up. Hopefully these pictures will help:

is it purple??? but it looks like a level 7 foamie. if you put the level 10 and level 7 next to each other you will notice that the bolt stem sticks further out on the level 10 where as on the level 7 you can just sit the bolt flat on a table like you have.

[snoopay700]

is it purple??? but it looks like a level 7 foamie. if you put the level 10 and level 7 next to each other you will notice that the bolt stem sticks further out on the level 10 where as on the level 7 you can just sit the bolt flat on a table like you have.

Agh, i didn't even think about that and i was going to tell him to watch for the longer bolt stem.

I also didn't notice the foamie sticking out further, so yeah, you've got a level 7, maybe it's because you've got such an early serial number.

[marked74]

Cool! You guys are amazing with this stuff. Thanks for the help! I was worried for a bit there that I bought a Level 10 to replace a Level 10 (though I couldn't figure out why it had a black spring...). Makes sense, if the early Level 7's had foamies, since my RT Valve s/n is so low, it's certainly one of the early ones

Awesome! I'll tear into it tonight after work. Hopefully my AGD order with my reg piston is in. Anyone know how to track an order from them? I didn't register an account until after I had placed my order, so when I log in it says I don't have an order history. The confirmation emails I got after placing the order don't have any tracking info. I suppose I could email them - seem like nice helpful people. Anyway I'll need that before I put it all back together and tune the Level 10, but at least I can get started.

N00b 'first time really working on a gun' question - any tips for removing and replacing o-rings? I know it doesn't matter too much if you damage the ones coming off, but I would imagine I'd have to be real nice to the new ones going on...

[snoopay700]

Cool! You guys are amazing with this stuff. Thanks for the help! I was worried for a bit there that I bought a Level 10 to replace a Level 10 (though I couldn't figure out why it had a black spring...). Makes sense, if the early Level 7's had foamies, since my RT Valve s/n is so low, it's certainly one of the early ones

Awesome! I'll tear into it tonight after work. Hopefully my AGD order with my reg piston is in. Anyone know how to track an order from them? I didn't register an account until after I had placed my order, so when I log in it says I don't have an order history. The confirmation emails I got after placing the order don't have any tracking info. I suppose I could email them - seem like nice helpful people. Anyway I'll need that before I put it all back together and tune the Level 10, but at least I can get started.

N00b 'first time really working on a gun' question - any tips for removing and replacing o-rings? I know it doesn't matter too much if you damage the ones coming off, but I would imagine I'd have to be real nice to the new ones going on...

It's been a few months since i bought something from AGD but i'm fairly certain that they don't give you a tracking number.

And yeah, you have an old level 7, but i still could swear that they stopped making them when they came out with the RT, i guess i was wrong, or if i'm not then someone replaced it, either way you're not out anything.

[trevorjk]

have you put a tank o-ring on before?

thats the hardest type of o-ring to put in a mag valve. and they go on the on/off assembly. otherwise for the most part they are o-rings that sit in place and come off/go in very easy. you will be truly amazed how easy it is to put the o-rings in.

just make sure you oil them well. im guessing you already have some good gun oil?

[snoopay700]

have you put a tank o-ring on before?

thats the hardest type of o-ring to put in a mag valve. and they go on the on/off assembly. otherwise for the most part they are o-rings that sit in place and come off/go in very easy. you will be truly amazed how easy it is to put the o-rings in.

just make sure you oil them well. im guessing you already have some good gun oil?

A dental pick makes short work of those o-rings. I wish i still knew where mine went, that thing was a god send for my mag.

[Braxo]

It's been a few months since i bought something from AGD but i'm fairly certain that they don't give you a tracking number.

I just received tracking information today on my RT Custom I ordered from AGD's website. But maybe they only give tracking on big ticket items?

Now I play the waiting game...two agonizing days of waiting...

[marked74]

Well, the gun has some other upgrades and mods, so it's quite possible that someone put a foamie Lvl 7 on and discarded the original.

I haven't put a tank o-ring on before actually - didn't want to screw it up so I didn't do it... Do you just slip it on and hope for the best? For oil, I have some (PMI I think?) lightning oil or something at home (it's in a blue/transparent bottle), and some Autolube coming in from AGD. Are those acceptable?

Thanks for the tip btw on oiling all of the rings as they're being installed.

Snoopay I don't have a dental pick specifically, but I do have a set of small picks from Harbor Freight - that'll get the job done.

Thanks again you guys!!

[snoopay700]

Well, the gun has some other upgrades and mods, so it's quite possible that someone put a foamie Lvl 7 on and discarded the original.

I haven't put a tank o-ring on before actually - didn't want to screw it up so I didn't do it... Do you just slip it on and hope for the best? For oil, I have some (PMI I think?) lightning oil or something at home (it's in a blue/transparent bottle), and some Autolube coming in from AGD. Are those acceptable?

Thanks for the tip btw on oiling all of the rings as they're being installed.

Snoopay I don't have a dental pick specifically, but I do have a set of small picks from Harbor Freight - that'll get the job done.

Thanks again you guys!!

Autolube most certainly is acceptable.

[questionful]

Wow - thanks for all the info! Simple system, few moving parts, pretty basic physics. And yet it always sounds complicated, at least to me. If I could see inside the marker when it was firing, and see exactly where pressure changes and things were happening, it would make more sense. That's just how my brain works - I need to see things happening to 'get' it.

http://www.zdspb.com/media/tech/anim...emag2_6fps.gif

Every mag owner should have this memorized. Just stare at it a while, you'll get it all eventually. That's the lvl10 bolt btw.