Automags - Difficult Maintenance & Unreliable?

[Lancer X]

I have to pick up a mechanical gun since my woodsball team is playing in the Skills division of the UWL this summer (no electros allowed for the Ranger positions).

So, I've been trying to decide what kind of mech gun to get. I've been reading about 'Mags, and was considering a ULE-body Mag or Tac One.

This week though, I was in my local pball shop getting air and asked the owner whether he could order AGD guns. He gave me a real horror story about 'Mag maintenance and reliability. He said that they even charge an extra-high rate to work on Mags because they are a pain.

He talked about how complicated the AGD design is, and how there were so many different places they can leak from. He also mentioned he's never seen someone playing with a Mag in a tourney, and the owners are always tinkering with them instead of playing with them

So, how much of this do you folks think is on target? I'm not at all hesitant to tinker with guns (although I've only ever owned electros), and pride myself on maintaining and working on my own guns.

Are Mags really that much of a pain and a labor of love? I need something durable and robust that I can get tuned up and rely on for this tourney. Would I be better just buying a new Tippy 98 or something?

[tweter]

LOL, all I can say is I play with a gun made from 1997 and can keep up with everyone else and its all mech. I know theres people on here that play with markers older than mine and do just fine. Maintenance is not that hard or bad to deal with. Just keep checking around about automags and i think youll find that its a top notch marker and you'd be very happy with one.....

[Barsse]

Right... That guy is probably on Smart Parts' payroll! Look no further than automags - the design is as simple as it gets, and on really really rare chance something does happen (busted o-ring) - you can pinpoint which o-ring to replace the next second, replace it in no time, and you're good to go. There are only 2 screws in automag - frame and valve. Doesn't get any simpler or robust than that. I may not be doing a great job explaining, but automags are , all hater threads are pure envy and jealousy.

You'll be a real no matter what 'Mag you get. And trust me, you won't regret it.

[cyberave68]

OK i say he is full of CRAP. I had an old mag that i didnt use for 3 years. Added a few drops or oil and away i went

Mags only have 3 orings. So i dont get the leaking issue. I will say i am alittle biased but its by using a mag since 92. Never have any real issuies and to fix them they are pretty easy. Plus in this forum you have the best group of guys here to help you out in any case.

Also you can learn to make a pnuemag that shoots as fast as an electro with being electro. I'd love to talk to the feild owner as i think he doesnt know what he's talkin about. Sure sometmes guns give you issues but you cant win em all. I have 5 mags myself and still only oil them before use and away i go. No real upkeep just oil and go...

Cy

[xero28]

I would say almost none of that is true. Here's my story. I bought my mag back around '96. I played a few times a year with it until around '01. I never took it in to be serviced, ever. I think I only changed a few o-rings, and nothing I couldn't do myself. It sat in either my garage or closet until January of '08. Some friends wanted to start playing ball so I pulled my mag out. I changed one o-ring in it again and it worked fine. No leaks, great consistency, great gun. The guys at the store probably have never worked on a mag before and have no idea what they're doing, that's why they would charge so much, because they would have to learn how to tech them. I've never really worked on any other guns except cockers (which is another gun so many people have fears about), so I can't really compare the ease of teching a mag with anything else, but all I had to do was bone up on a few things here on AO and Custom Cockers and all of my questions about the mechanics of the guns and how to service them myself have been answered. If you want to get a VERY reliabale gun that has the capability of outshooting an electro, than look no further, get a mag. You will not be dissapointed.

[Lancer X]

Thanks guys, and I welcome any more replies.

This pro shop I mentioned is located at a speedball field, and it's a very electro-centric kind of environment, so he may have his own agenda. That said, he knew the whole situation and knew I wasn't buying an electro from him no matter what.

So, just seemed weird for him to be so adamant w/ his advice if he wasn't sincere. No real advantage for him to snow me, and he wasn't really recommending a Tippmann either, which he does sell. After everything I'd read about Mags, he really threw me for a loop with what he said.

[SkinnyHare]

lol, wow... where is this shop so i know to never go there.

just to give you an idea of how "troublesome" mags are... a few drops of oil, set the velocity, play all day.

i can't even remember how many of the things i own now and have yet to have issues with any of them. if you're getting something with a level 10 kit, it might be a pain to get it tuned right, but it's a one time thing. youtube has a couple decent vids on how to do it. if you get one, i think you'll be shocked at how trouble free they are and easy to maintain.

[cyberave68]

Oh and i thought i should add that they are my loner guns as well. I dont worry about them getting all messed up or broken cause you cant really harm them. (Other than sticking the barrel 3ft in the dirt.) Heck on my mech's i just rinse them under the sink and oil em before they go bacxk in the box till next time....

I have an 06 timmy that i cant use when it colder than 50* outside. And it gives me troubles all the time. i can take my Etac (Emag) otu in the snow and it still shoots fine...


(Sorry about the smilies my little monster wanted me to put them there and she daddy's little girl so what ever she wants...)

[sdawg]

Go watch the training videos on YouTube. What other paintgun maker provided an hour-long instructional video explaining how their gun works and how to troubleshoot it?

[secretweaponevan]

Here is how easy a mag is to tech:

If it leaks out the barrel with the trigger at rest, replace the powertube o-ring.
If it leaks out the barrel with the trigger held, replace the on/off top teflon o-ring.
If it leaks out the back and turning the velocity down doesn't stop it, replace the regulator seat.

That is 98% of mag leaks right there. 3 seconds to diagnose. 1 minute to fix.

Most reliable mech marker I've ever used. Just oil and go.

[p8ntbal4me]

Im not going to harp on the question,.. its pretty much the core question asked by new guys to mags.

But that guy that told you mags are probmatic,... well he probley cant work on mags to begin with. Im the ONLY guy at my field that can completely tech a mag when Im there to play because I bring:

Oil
O-rings (1 repair kit is all you need)
Knowledge of the parts where the o-rings go

AGD has blown up diagrams which simple graphics that tell you where everything in the valve goes.

You can remove the valve FASTER than you can take out a bolt assembly in less than 20 seconds without tools.

What everyone else is saying about the oil and o-rings is not a glorified mag owners myth,.. its the raw truth.

If you want a light mag,... get a nice frame you like,.. get a R/T length rail that has been ULE milled on the inside, get an X-Valve with a ULT installed, and get a ULE main body.

That will be as light as you need it to be and get you what your after.

If you want lighter trigger pull/faster trigger pulls,.. pneumag the frame as Cyberave68 suggested. (check the UWL rules before though because Ive been debating this topic on the forum for over a month now)

~ P8nt

[maniacmechanic]

I have to pick up a mechanical gun since my woodsball team is playing in the Skills division of the UWL this summer (no electros allowed for the Ranger positions).

So, I've been trying to decide what kind of mech gun to get. I've been reading about 'Mags, and was considering a ULE-body Mag or Tac One.

This week though, I was in my local pball shop getting air and asked the owner whether he could order AGD guns. He gave me a real horror story about 'Mag maintenance and reliability. He said that they even charge an extra-high rate to work on Mags because they are a pain.

He talked about how complicated the AGD design is, and how there were so many different places they can leak from. He also mentioned he's never seen someone playing with a Mag in a tourney, and the owners are always tinkering with them instead of playing with them

So, how much of this do you folks think is on target? I'm not at all hesitant to tinker with guns (although I've only ever owned electros), and pride myself on maintaining and working on my own guns.

Are Mags really that much of a pain and a labor of love? I need something durable and robust that I can get tuned up and rely on for this tourney. Would I be better just buying a new Tippy 98 or something?

Hey he's right , stay away from Mags you , will RARLY have to WORK on your marker , but you will spend a lot on THEM

[stoffa15]

You know what I have heard pro shop guys talk there trash about the Mag time and time again. "why spend that money on an X valve when you can just by a new gun"? "These guns are so outdated".In the time that I've had my Mag I have sent my invert mini back twice,my 98 custom pro back once and completely broke my A-5. If ANYTHING does go wrong with your marker you'll need these things.

1 full tank of air
2 allen wrench
3 gun oil
4 spareparts kit
5 computer
6 beers


can you do this with any other marker????

[chafnerjr]

I hope that everyone here has managed to persuade you by now. Now some of us do tend to tinker with our markers, but it's not because of any reliability issue! It's just hard not to totally customize and configure your marker in any way you want.

You can always buy a Tac-One right from AGD and have a fantastic marker. I'd certainly get the ULT trigger kit if you go that route. Otherwise or you can build or buy a pneumag if allowed (*see p8ntbal4me's post). Search through this site. You will find some of the wildest and weirdest Mechs ever created. While your on youtube search "pneumag", there are some fun videos on there as well.

[Lancer X]

I hope that everyone here has managed to persuade you by now. Now some of us do tend to tinker with our markers, but it's not because of any reliability issue! It's just hard not to totally customize and configure your marker in any way you want.

You can always buy a Tac-One right from AGD and have a fantastic marker. I'd certainly get the ULT trigger kit if you go that route. Otherwise or you can build or buy a pneumag if allowed (*see p8ntbal4me's post). Search through this site. You will find some of the wildest and weirdest Mechs ever created. While your on youtube search "pneumag", there are some fun videos on there as well.

Thanks again, guys!!

I'm actually not looking for a fast gun. My G3 is as fast as I want it to be. I'm really just looking for a very solid gun. If I have to buy a mech, I want a good one and a reliable one.

From what I'd read, the Automag sounded like it fit the bill and I really liked the long legacy of the gun. I've been playing occasionally for a long time (say '87 or so?), but only recently bought my own stuff and started really playing regularly. My point is, I remember the days of "holy crap - that guys has an Automag!" and what it was like to play against them as a pump-rental walk-on. Thought it would be cool to own one.

My biggest decision now is whether to buy a new RT Pro ULE or Tac One, or get an older Mag and put it together a little at a time. The used RT Pro ULE and Tac Ones seem to go for almost as much as the new ones though...

[Beemer]

The used RT Pro ULE and Tac Ones seem to go for almost as much as the new ones though...

Wonder why that is? Must be cause they suck.

[psychowarden]

I'm surprised nobody else posted up this video.

http://www.zakvetter.com/paintball_v...tress_test.mov

[skyless]

The first mag i owned was built from the scratch. It had an x valve and ult. It took a bit of reading befor i got it tuned nicely, I think i went though a few tanks of air just trying to get it to be how i thought i wanted it to be. After playing a couple games and tweeking the lvl 10 and the ult, I was good to go, NO PROBLEMS at all. This forum will teach you everythink you need to know about how to get you mag rocking.
There are alot of parts to choose from and some are compatable some are not. I would recommend buying a compleate marker and then upgrade and change it around after playing with it and watching the b/s/t to see whats available. I would highly recommend looking at the pic thread at the top of the paintball talk section to see what others have done. The customizatin is endless, its easy to get lost in all the different parts. Good luck. Carfull what you get your self into. It easy to get hooked.

[PumpMag]

Mech mags are easy to fix. Just stock up on parts kits and service it yourself.

Of all the years I've shot mags both rec and tourney, I've never had to send any in.

Now that's reliablity!

[VFX_Fenix]

For a point of reference.

I pulled one of my E-Mags out of storage (4 years) the other day, charged the battery, and gassed it up. The thing couldn't even complete a firing cycle with a HUGE leak down the barrel. I degassed the gun and pulled the X-Valve out. Tore it down, cleaned it, and had it back together in 5 minutes with the thing shooting like a champ after that.

The biggest complication with the Mag is that it's based on an integrated regulator. If you know how to service a reg, you know how to service a 'Mag.

The only other mech gun I'd toss in with a Mag is the "old faithful" Autococker. I have a '99 AC that I also pulled out of storage at about the same time. With a little tweaking and oil that was up and shooting like a champ also in a little over 15 minutes after a four year stint in storage.

The only AGD product I've ever had a problem with was a used AGD FLatline 4500PSI system which started chewing up Piston O-Rings. One of these days I'll send it in to AGD or Tuna to have a once over.

[chafnerjr]

I would highly recommend looking at the pic thread at the top of the paintball talk section to see what others have done.

Jut start from the last page and move backwards... this is an old forum and the first 30+ pages contain nothing but broken links. (mine is at the bottom of page 80, but my wifes isn't on there yet).

[Xceolite]

After I bought my first mag, I sold everything. I now own four mags.

Just buy one and you will see.

[GoatBoy]

The question I have to ask is: why are you relying on the second hand information from some flunky working at a paintball shop?

All the technical diagrams for everything are available online. You should be perfectly capable of just looking at the design and operation and figuring all of this out for yourself.

I have to pick up a mechanical gun since my woodsball team is playing in the Skills division of the UWL this summer (no electros allowed for the Ranger positions).

So, I've been trying to decide what kind of mech gun to get. I've been reading about 'Mags, and was considering a ULE-body Mag or Tac One.

This week though, I was in my local pball shop getting air and asked the owner whether he could order AGD guns. He gave me a real horror story about 'Mag maintenance and reliability. He said that they even charge an extra-high rate to work on Mags because they are a pain.

He talked about how complicated the AGD design is, and how there were so many different places they can leak from. He also mentioned he's never seen someone playing with a Mag in a tourney, and the owners are always tinkering with them instead of playing with them

So, how much of this do you folks think is on target? I'm not at all hesitant to tinker with guns (although I've only ever owned electros), and pride myself on maintaining and working on my own guns.

Are Mags really that much of a pain and a labor of love? I need something durable and robust that I can get tuned up and rely on for this tourney. Would I be better just buying a new Tippy 98 or something?

[XM15]

It sounds like all the guy knows is the Automag myths. The reality is they are easy to tech and they are very reliable. I have played with a mag for almost 15 years and I can honestly say it has never let me down. I just played a 3 man tourny today with it and had no problems.

[p8ntbal4me]

Any paintball gun can be easy to maintain,.. but with a Mag,.. its just to simple.

If you screw up oil and o-rings,.. you really have no place playing paintball to begin with.

I see alot of the younger "kids" always talking up some NXT Shocker like it was the lowest maintenance thing ever made.

I own 2 NXT Shockers, 3 SFT Shockers,.. and I can honestly say that they are WAAAAAAY more involved to maintain than these other techs make them out to be.

Taking apart the Shocker Firing can and bolt assembly alone is more maintenance than you have with ALL the Mag parts COMBINED!

I tech all my own guns,.. I have well over 25 of them. All ranging from SFT/NXT Shockers, Angel LED/LCD/IR3/Speed, WGP 96-2K3 Cockers with and without electronics, AGD Classic/X-Valved Mags both mech and electronic, etc. The list is long enough for my knowledge and opinion to carry some weight in my words.

#1: Get a light mag and get some spare parts.
#2: Print out the blow up diagram for the valve system you are going to use.
#3: Night before you play, gas it up, and check everything. Replace o-rings
#4: Oil the marker the night before
#5: Day you go to use it, oil it again and chrono the marker.
#6: Play
#7: CLEAN you gun when you are done! (you should have some q-tips in your tech box/bag)
#8: Oil, shoot dry with air,.. put gun away.

Thats basically what I do and my mags have all the original valves in them they came with.

~ P8nt

[GothicVash]

didnt read everyones response just the first couple so if this was already said sorry

mabey he got confuzed on automags-autocockers i know their is some myth about cockers being a pain to work on .... and i mainly shoot cockers i see no problem or hardness to work on a cocker tho the mico line/ 3 way hose is a pain to get on and off the barbs but other then that its preety straight forward i just got a mag for my first time and all i know is its reall old and needed a valve rebuild so i watched some video riped it apart and rebuilt it its got a bunch of orings but other then that it seams preety simple and straight forward dosent seam complicated at all and ive heard nothing but great things about them

[malJohann]

I bought a Tac-One that had 3 owners before me without worrying about it. This is my first Automag and since I've had it there has been no problems at all. I decided I wanted a 'mag after extensive research on the internet, because I wanted the most reliable mech, easy to tech and easy to clean paintball marker out there. On any given day for that criteria Automags > All.

I have no experience of E or X-mags, but take the advice on this forum as fact. Mag owners don't hype up their markers as something its not, because they don't need to. For me an Automag is the best platform ever built for making a marker exactly the way you want it, and then for that ownership experience to be as trouble free and rewarding as any you will ever find. No BS.

[DevilMan]

bwahahhahahaaa..... I have to say.... Stay away from Mags...

bwhahahahhaaa......

Sorry I've been having these convo's all day. It must be opposite day or something....

ahhhh.....

Tomorrow it will all change back to normal.

DM

[chinstrap]

Man...I bought a brand-spankin' new Tac One straight from AGD a few years ago and it's been a pain ever since.

After I put the first case through it, I had to read some stuff to get the bolt to stop leaking.

I've had to spray it down in my sink and shoot oil through it after every day of use.

I was thinking about getting one of them newfangled electromabobbers 'cuz someone at the shop told me they wash and lube themselves.

I hate maintenance.

[punkncat]

Pain to work on...well I suppose it is from a point of view.

A classic mag valve with level 7 and all the correct parts (right powertube spacer) is arguably the toughest valve on the planet. Coupled with one of the SS bodies it is a markers that rarely needs anything aside from a few drops of oil. On the occasional decade, you have to replace the spring stack in the reg......

Now, to be honest, and rather "un" mag fanboi.....

Lvl 10 and ULT CAN be a pain in the butt. Especially if you are not used to them, or a mag in general. The problem is only worse and truly is a headache if both of them are out of adjustment and needing attention. In that case it requires that (for ease) that you have a few extra parts that lots of people generally do not have around, like the spacers for the LX, the shims for the ULT...in some cases the stock RT on/off to eliminate issues while tuning the lx...blah blah.
Both of those "add ons" require a bit of knowledge and honesty a bit of experience before just knowing what to do.

I honestly have always been pretty good with working on my own Mags in the past, but every one that has been brought to the shop for me to fix was very hit and miss at to whether I got it exactly right the first time. Pays to know your own marker, and not be afraid to tinker.

Once it is in adjustment, the ULT really never needs touching again. The LX, according to use and oil might need fiddling with a few times a year, if that, under normal circumstance.

So, pain in the butt? I could see it with certain types of mags. The comment from that store owner probably comes more from his inexperience and unfamiliarity with the Mag and a fear that he might not get it right. Not wholly untrue as others have said, but really has a lot to do with "where you stand" as it were.