Miniature High Pressure Air Compressor for Tank Refills??

[Buck]

I would love this to become a reality! My local scuba shop went out of business and none of the local fields fill HPA. I live in a very rural area and the nearest place that I can get my air tank filled is 2 hours away each way. This would really be a great thing for me!

[Smoothice]

Let's not argue the safety issue. Cause if you are that safety conscience then paintball markers themselves should be outlawed. The same idiot filling a busted tank is probably the same guy doing drive by's on homeless and over shooting his friends.

Here's my main concern...

Does TK have a patent?!?

Cause I would cry is some other company tried to pull a fast one.

[DevilMan]

Let's not argue the safety issue. Cause if you are that safety conscience then paintball markers themselves should be outlawed. The same idiot filling a busted tank is probably the same guy doing drive by's on homeless and over shooting his friends.

Here's my main concern...

Does TK have a patent?!?

Cause I would cry is some other company tried to pull a fast one.

Yeah I think if TK asked for donations more than enough folks would kick in to file for the patent on this. Just to cover all the bases it should read something like ~>

"This patent is for any device that can use a device to drive a pump and be used to compress, herd, round up, force air from it's normal state of being into a more compact and higher pressure area. This device is to cover the 1 to 153,987,134.8105492 PSI range with the maximum pressure being what ever is physically possible from any time from now until the end of time. Our research shows that there are no other devices previously manufactured or ever thought of capable of doing this and any data showing the contrary is 100% fictional and wholly insane and has never been made previous to this patent filing"

It's a just a start I know.

DM

[kwood]

here is a quick question
how long would it take to fill a small pump style HPA tank
like the 13/3k?

[Raven001]

Let's not argue the safety issue. Cause if you are that safety conscience then paintball markers themselves should be outlawed. The same idiot filling a busted tank is probably the same guy doing drive by's on homeless and over shooting his friends.

Here's my main concern...

Does TK have a patent?!?

Cause I would cry is some other company tried to pull a fast one.

I think compressors have been around long enough that a patent would likely not be needed. Of course I could be seriously mistaken....

[JKR]

Although not ideal, to address some safety concerns and compressor maintenance/wear issues, what if the system only filled to 3K? There would be no issue with overfilling that way and it would still be a big convenience to have home fills, even if you only got 3000 in your 4500 tank.

Would you guys still be willing to pay $200+ for 3K fills?

[ElPanda]

Although not ideal, to address some safety concerns and compressor maintenance/wear issues, what if the system only filled to 3K? There would be no issue with overfilling that way and it would still be a big convenience to have home fills, even if you only got 3000 in your 4500 tank.

Would you guys still be willing to pay $200+ for 3K fills?

I would still pay for a 3k fill at home, air is air and 3k is more than enough to tech my markers when needed

plus limiting it to only 3k will decrease the fill time.

[Lohman446]

Although not ideal, to address some safety concerns and compressor maintenance/wear issues, what if the system only filled to 3K? There would be no issue with overfilling that way and it would still be a big convenience to have home fills, even if you only got 3000 in your 4500 tank.

Would you guys still be willing to pay $200+ for 3K fills?

Most scuba tanks we use are 3K. If this is for the weekend outlaw ballers with no reasonable access chances are they are using scuba or bulk tanks and 3K would be enough. The tinkerer who is just testing a marker is likely to need a full 45. I don't know if 3K would change anything though.

[WenULiVeUdiE]

I wouldn't purchase one if it was more than $45. The local shop is close enough and cheap enough that getting my tanks filled isn't a big deal.

[greezypete]

I think some of you are overly ambitious thinking something like this would fill a scuba tank. I think its a cool idea , but it would take a month to fill a scuba tank if it takes over night to fill a 68/3000.

[SR_matt]

to lazy to read past page 2 for now but this would be SWEEEEEEEET. as long as its cheap and quiet i would buy one for sure, and i honestly think my best friend would grab one too since he has like 5 guns that need repair now but never has air

-matt

[onecaribou]

I think some of you are overly ambitious thinking something like this would fill a scuba tank. I think its a cool idea , but it would take a month to fill a scuba tank if it takes over night to fill a 68/3000.

Actually, if it takes 8 hours to fill a 68 ci /3000 then it would take a WHOLE LOT longer to fill a 60 cf /300 psi SCUBA tank ....

68 cubic inches in typical tank
1728 cubic inches in a cubic foot
103680 cubic inches in a 60 CF tank

68 cubic inches in 8 hours
1728 cubic inches in 8.4 days
103680 cubic inches in 504 days

I'm no math wizard so someone step up if I'm wrong on this...

[SR_matt]

Actually, if it takes 8 hours to fill a 68 ci /3000 then it would take a WHOLE LOT longer to fill a 60 cf /300 psi SCUBA tank ....

68 cubic inches in typical tank
1728 cubic inches in a cubic foot
103680 cubic inches in a 60 CF tank

68 cubic inches in 8 hours
1728 cubic inches in 8.4 days
103680 cubic inches in 504 days

I'm no math wizard so someone step up if I'm wrong on this...

well the idea is for 68/45 in 8 hours, up to 3k is going to take much less time than going to 45, so it might not tak a uber long time to fill a large tank to 3k

-matt

[AGD]

Actually, if it takes 8 hours to fill a 68 ci /3000 then it would take a WHOLE LOT longer to fill a 60 cf /300 psi SCUBA tank ....

68 cubic inches in typical tank
1728 cubic inches in a cubic foot
103680 cubic inches in a 60 CF tank

68 cubic inches in 8 hours
1728 cubic inches in 8.4 days
103680 cubic inches in 504 days

I'm no math wizard so someone step up if I'm wrong on this...

Your math is wrong. Scuba tanks are quoted in cubic feet of gas at atmospheric pressure. NOT the actual cubic inches of the tank itself like Pball tanks are. Do the math, a scuba tank is not 1400 times bigger than a typical paintball rig.

My rough calculations say about 3 cubic inches filled to 4500 psi in an hour. Guessing at the volume of a scuba tank I think your looking at 12 days to fill it to 4500.

AGD

[onecaribou]

Thanks for the clarification Tom. I wondered why my numbers looked so high.

I'd definitely pick one up even if it wasn't practical to fill up my scuba setup.

[SR_matt]

Your math is wrong. Scuba tanks are quoted in cubic feet of gas at atmospheric pressure. NOT the actual cubic inches of the tank itself like Pball tanks are. Do the math, a scuba tank is not 1400 times bigger than a typical paintball rig.

My rough calculations say about 3 cubic inches filled to 4500 psi in an hour. Guessing at the volume of a scuba tank I think your looking at 12 days to fill it to 4500.

AGD

so then the question arises Mr kaye, what would the duty cycle be on this thing. could we just run it for 2 weeks to pump up a scuba/scba tank to do multiple fills or would we have to give it breaks?

-matt

[nerobro]

Given the overwhelming support for this idea I am looking at it seriously. I have been running the numbers and it looks possible. I estimate a 4500 psi fill in 30 hours run time but this doesn't take into effect heating losses etc at the moment.

I can estimate the size motor that it would need and while its fairly small, its expensive at about 80 bucks. This means there is no way this would come in around 100 bucks. I think realistically we are in the 200-275 range.

It would be fairly quiet since the motor only rotates at 60 rpm in my current design. It would be designed so it CAN'T pump any more than 4500 psi so you would just turn it off.

Let me know if the price point sinks the ship.

AGD

Since this isn't going to be an "on field" device. why not use a big motor. a 1/8hp 110vac motors are cheap, common, and reliable. They're not small, but they're definitely smaller than a nitro tank. I think the kicker for a project like this would be to have the compressor roughly the same size as a nitro tank. (no need to match the form factor, but something you could stack int the same carrier as a 68ci tank would be magic)

60rpm makes me think you're concerned about pump heating, and piston pump speed. Those cheap 1/8hp motors are usually 3600rpm motors, so you'd need to look at some fun reduction gearing to keep the pump life sane.

is this going to be "par for the course" agd type design? As in most of the parts will be all industry standard size seals?

Now i'm wondering what you're doing for the check valves, given the pump speed, and pump volume those valves are going to need to be pretty small and very close to the pump itself.

In a later post you mentioned that this would come out to be lunch box sized. I think that's a good form factor too. :-) Lots of room to put a logo, and a name on it.

[PAINTHEY]

My local field charges $7 to fill a 68/4500 to 3000psi and no other options within an hour drive.
So hell yeah I want one now.

[SR_matt]

at the 2-300 buck mark its something i would probably get eventually. kind of depends on how much more i go play, the last few years have been cut way back due to school and money but i think i am picking back up hopefully so we will see. it is pretty justifiable though even in that range

-matt

[om3n]

If it's under $100 I would ABSOLUTELY buy one. I play alot of backyard ball and I tinker with my guns alot, and this would absolutely be something I'd buy.

EDIT

Hmm... if it was $200 - $275 I would probably still go with it. I'd have to know a little more about it though, i.e. how long it would take to fill a scuba tank, how loud it is, how it could be regulated, how long it could run, etc. Also, I would be totally fine with increasing the size of the compressor to decrease time to fill and/or price.

[Will Wood]

My local field charges $7 to fill a 68/4500 to 3000psi and no other options within an hour drive.
So hell yeah I want one now.

They should be shot.

[AnthonyDStone]

I think compressors have been around long enough that a patent would likely not be needed. Of course I could be seriously mistaken....

Tell That To Smart Parts!

Tony

[kcombs9]

My local field charges $7 to fill a 68/4500 to 3000psi and no other options within an hour drive.

Ouch, mine is 3.50 for a 88/4500 (filled to 3000psi as well)

Free fills (for life) if you buy a tank from their pro shop no take home topping off though

More related note. I have some land at my house I have been thinking about doing some "outlaw" paint ball on but there is no where local to fill our tanks, or scuba for that matter. so If i got this and 1-2 scuba tanks a bigger motor for faster fills i could maybe have a tank filled during the week then play on the weekend?

I looked into the full fledged compressors your local field would buy and I cant afford 2k just to play some outlaw ball on the weekends

[maniacmechanic]

My local field charges $7 to fill a 68/4500 to 3000psi and no other options within an hour drive.
So hell yeah I want one now.

The Local PB stores used to charge 1$ =1K

[madcrisis]

if you have any buddys that are fire fighters ask them if they can fill up your bottle a their station. all you need is an adapter. i do it all the time.

as for this compressor for 275 would be a little much for me. id go like 150 but thats only because im on a budget. the idea is genius however

[greezypete]

Fire station is where I get my scuba filled , usually for free , but I still think one of these compressors would be pretty cool.

[SR_matt]

if you have any buddys that are fire fighters ask them if they can fill up your bottle a their station. all you need is an adapter. i do it all the time.

as for this compressor for 275 would be a little much for me. id go like 150 but thats only because im on a budget. the idea is genius however

except that if some one high up finds out you get busted with your friends for misuse of govt property

-matt

[JaNordy]

I would very much would want one, assuming its not loud, if it takes overnight that is just fine for me, Im sleeping.... sometimes.

[greezypete]

except that if some one high up finds out you get busted with your friends for misuse of govt property

-matt

Those higher up know , at least here. Its just a service they provide. I have heard of lots of other fire stations that provide the same service. Smaller fire departments may not have the equipment though.

This small compressor wouldnt serve several players like a scuba tank would , but it sure as heck would help out the single player who doesnt go through massive amounts of balls each day. I rarely shoot over a bag a day and Im sure there are alot of people like me. One full tank would be plenty of air for a good days play.

[neppo1345]

This would be perfect for those weekend renegade games...when you don't want to go to the field and deal with aggro kids.

I like this idea.