Emag help

[Ando]

The 2 brass pieces are basically pressed together. No threading. That's the hardest part of the whole disassemble is pulling them apart. Get some vice grips or channel locks to pull them apart. Just remember you need to protect the piston or your going to tear it up. I use some scrap leather I had lying around.

[Jaron]

And I still am not 100% sure that I even have the right on/off pin. Tyring to justify buying a micrometer.

Are you worried you have an RT pin .750 , or the wrong E-Mag pin ( .712 or .725. )? If the former, I know it's not perfect, but if you get a tape measure or a good ruler, you can get a pretty good estimate measure that will tell a .750 or 3/4" RT pin from the shorter E-Mag pins. If you think you've got the wrong E-Mag pin, well 22/32" = 0.71875" so if you can tell if the pin is longer or shorter than that, you'll have a good idea where you stand.

Actually, this makes me want to check my own pin since I've had on and off problems like this.

[OPBN]

I grabbed my Retro valved mag and pulled the on/off pin out and compared it to the one from the Emag valve. The on/off pin out of the E-mag valve is definitely shorter, so I would say it is a .712.

I got the piston apart. Used a knife edge and hammer to get it started and then used a flathead screwdriver to pry it apart. The flat rubber seal was grooved, I flipped it and put it back together.

Now I need air.

[OPBN]

Finally got my tanks filled. Even after taking apart the piston and flipping the seal, there is still air leaking out the back. Not as much as before, but still leaking. When I took it apart, I counted the number of revolutions it took to get the set screw out and turned it back in the same amount when I reassembled. Should I try screwing it in more? I am talking about the set screws inside the piston. I have tried the velocity adjument on the back all the way in, way out and no significant change. I did notice that it stops leaking for a little if I fire a few times.

Does not appear to have any bolt stick any longer. I think I still need to add some shims inside the powertube as the LVLX is working mostly, but still hitting the pencil I stick in there pretty hard.

Still not working solely in E-mode. Trigger is activating the solenoid, but the marker isn't firing. I can manually push down on the solenoid and it fires. Works well in E-Mech, not very reactive though.

I did physically measure the on/off pin using a ruler, and it defintely isn't .750. Actually, when I measured it, I come up with 18mm with comes to around .708 inches. It's not calipers, but with this measurement I am assuming it is the correct .712 pin.

I am using an adjustable regulator set around 850ish.

I put the battery on the charger for several hours to insure a full charge.

Where do I go from here? I know I can send it in to someone, but I would like to try and fix this myself.

[flyingpootang]

When you say leaking out the back you mean out of the velocity adjuster? If so since you have a RT valve and it's the same as a Emag valve I would start replacing parts 1 by 1 to see where the problem ls. What condition are the o-rings in? If their gummy or brown and hard you might want to replace them. If you take them off they may crack or fall apart. What type of oil are you using? I had to replace all the o-rings in a mag that the owner used 3 in 1 oil. You may also want to take apart the valve for a good cleaning and o-ring replacement. When you pull out your regulator if stuck it may be the reason your leaking out of the velocity adjuster.

[OPBN]

Yes, it is leaking out the velocity adjustment hole. I have taken the regulator apart several times and all of the orings look to be intact. Using standard paintball marker oil.

I would think the only one that would cause the leaking through the hole would be the one inside the piston. If it was one of the others, it would leak from a different spot wouldn't it?

I could try taking the piston out of the X-valved marker that I have. I am reluctant to start pulling parts from my Retro valved marker as it's my most reliable. When all else fails, I pull it out and go to it.

[flyingpootang]

Yes, it is leaking out the velocity adjustment hole. I have taken the regulator apart several times and all of the orings look to be intact. Using standard paintball marker oil.

I would think the only one that would cause the leaking through the hole would be the one inside the piston. If it was one of the others, it would leak from a different spot wouldn't it?

I could try taking the piston out of the X-valved marker that I have. I am reluctant to start pulling parts from my Retro valved marker as it's my most reliable. When all else fails, I pull it out and go to it.

I wouldn't worry about pulling parts off of your Xvalve and installing it on your emag valve. It would be the simplest way to trouble shoot your emag valve leak...

[Ando]

Finally got my tanks filled. Even after taking apart the piston and flipping the seal, there is still air leaking out the back. Not as much as before, but still leaking. When I took it apart, I counted the number of revolutions it took to get the set screw out and turned it back in the same amount when I reassembled. Should I try screwing it in more? I am talking about the set screws inside the piston. I have tried the velocity adjument on the back all the way in, way out and no significant change. I did notice that it stops leaking for a little if I fire a few times.
Yes. Just use your calibrated elbow and torque it down till it doesn't move anymore.

Does not appear to have any bolt stick any longer. I think I still need to add some shims inside the powertube as the LVLX is working mostly, but still hitting the pencil I stick in there pretty hard.
I would have to agree. You already said you found the proper carrier so all you need to do is shim it. I hope that other spring causing your bolt to stick is in the trash BTW

Still not working solely in E-mode. Trigger is activating the solenoid, but the marker isn't firing. I can manually push down on the solenoid and it fires. Works well in E-Mech, not very reactive though.
Pull your safety out and see if it's getting in the way in E-mode.

I did physically measure the on/off pin using a ruler, and it defintely isn't .750. Actually, when I measured it, I come up with 18mm with comes to around .708 inches. It's not calipers, but with this measurement I am assuming it is the correct .712 pin.

I am using an adjustable regulator set around 850ish.
Should be fine

I put the battery on the charger for several hours to insure a full charge.
Good Idea.

Where do I go from here? I know I can send it in to someone, but I would like to try and fix this myself.

...

[OPBN]

I've pushed on the passenger side of the safety to make sure it isn't in the way. No difference.

[Ando]

Still. Your sear rod might be too long and hitting the safty. Removing it is the easiest way of telling.

[OPBN]

Easier said than done. Safety does not want to come out... I think I may have lost the ball that sits on top of the spring and it doesn't want to come back out.

[Ando]

Easier said than done. Safety does not want to come out... I think I may have lost the ball that sits on top of the spring and it doesn't want to come back out.

Ouch on the ball. It's a standard ball so any one will work.

It should just slip right out Ck to see if the sear is holding it in.

[OPBN]

The spring was still in there, but no ball. I got it out. Will need a new spring and ball, but it is out. No Joy. Still not working.

Starting to wonder if the battery isn't bad. I had charged it up a couple of days ago, but it just doesn't seem to be pulling down on the sear arm strong enough. I have the grip off, battery on and aired up. The solenoid simply isn't pulling down on the arm enough to trigger the valve. I can push down with my fingernail to make it shoot. Maybe I need to get the battery checked. If I take it in to The Shack to be tested, what should the output voltage be? I bought a new wall to charger converter a couple of weeks ago. Its a 1.5amp, 12volt adapter. Could this be the issue? Maybe it isn't charging the battery enough, or maybe the battery isn't holding a charge?

[OPBN]

Sorry to double post. Just took the battery off of the charger, popped it on, and voila! Works. Now the question. How long should the battery keep a charge? I thought I read that the original 650 mah was supposed to last 20k shots... Should the battery be losing a charge so badly as not to be able to keep a charge overnight? How would I test for this?

[athomas]

....I have tried the velocity adjument on the back all the way in, way out and no significant change. I did notice that it stops leaking for a little if I fire a few times.

Does not appear to have any bolt stick any longer. I think I still need to add some shims inside the powertube as the LVLX is working mostly, but still hitting the pencil I stick in there pretty hard.

If the leak remains after the velocity adjustment is backed way off (don't forget to fire a couple of shots to get rid of the pressure), then the leak is probably caused by something other than the inside of the piston, unless something is out of place. If firing it a few times stops the leak for a moment, it could be a bad regulator seat oring that is causing the issues. The other oring that could cause a leak out the back is the regulator piston oring (the one around the outside). If it is bad, the air escaping past it can also escape out the back If you have spare retro/Xmag close by, do use it to trouble shoot. It will make it much easier to find your problem. Try swapping the regulator piston assembly first.


Putting shims in your level 10 will do nothing in making the bolt hit softer. Shims only change how far the bolt needs to move in order to release air out the vent hole. If the bolt chuffs or shoots, even if it sticks, then it does not need shims. When testing with a pencil, make sure you hold the pencil against the front of the bolt. If the bolt is allowed to move more than 1/4", it will hit with full force. A squeegie in the front of the breach is the easiest way the test the level 10 bolt. If you do need to make it lighter, then you need to use a stiffer spring.

[athomas]

Sorry to double post. Just took the battery off of the charger, popped it on, and voila! Works. Now the question. How long should the battery keep a charge? I thought I read that the original 650 mah was supposed to last 20k shots... Should the battery be losing a charge so badly as not to be able to keep a charge overnight? How would I test for this?

How old is the battery? If it is more than 5 years old, then you will probably need to replace it. Older batteries do not hold a charge very well. Lots of us were having charge issues until we replaced the worn out battery pack.

[OPBN]

How old is the battery? If it is more than 5 years old, then you will probably need to replace it. Older batteries do not hold a charge very well. Lots of us were having charge issues until we replaced the worn out battery pack.

I didnt think the battery was more than a couple of years old. I saw a link about two years ago where the previous owner bought a new one from KC. I assumed that would be about the age. I guess I should ask him. Are these batteries like ones found in cordless drills in the way they retain a charge for a good length of time? The battery that I have seems to pretty much lose the charge overnight.

Ok about the shimsin the LvlX. I guess I am a little confused about how they work. Need to go through the CD again.

Regulator Seat O-ring.. is this the one that is forward of the piston on the front of the regulator that the pin goes through? I keep trying to blow the exploded diagram of the valve up, but it pixelates and I can't read anything. Not to be a noob, but how would this cause air to leak through the adjustment hole? Wouldn't it still need to pass past the outer piston O-ring and/or the inner piston oring/flap?

[athomas]

A good set of batteries will hold a charge for quite a while. Newer generation batteries are much better at this than older technology. The problem with rechargeable packs, is that you can't let them sit dead for long periods of time. If a pack sits and goes "past" dead, the it is possible that one of the cell polarities can reverse. If this happens, you can reclaim the pack with a few proper charge/discharge conditioning cycles.

For your level 10 info, the CD is a good place to start, but there is much more up to date to information available here on the forums that wasn't available when the CD was originally made.

[athomas]

Regulator Seat O-ring.. is this the one that is forward of the piston on the front of the regulator that the pin goes through? I keep trying to blow the exploded diagram of the valve up, but it pixelates and I can't read anything. Not to be a noob, but how would this cause air to leak through the adjustment hole? Wouldn't it still need to pass past the outer piston O-ring and/or the inner piston oring/flap?

You would be correct in your thought.

The reason I suspect it might be the reg seat oring, is that the leak goes away for a bit when you shoot the gun. The leak returns after it sits for a bit. This is classic symptoms for a reg seat oring leak. The regulator piston assembly is designed to release excess pressure. If the regulator seat oring leaks, the regulator leaks high pressure air into the chamber causing the pressure to exceed the piston assembly bleed off setting. This leak might be small, so it doesn't happen instantly. This is the leak out the back you are experiencing. If it was just a constant leak out the back when adjusted above a certain value, then I would say you have a worn out piston assembly (which you may have anyway), but a leak that grows over time is consistent with a reg seat oring problem.

[OPBN]

OK, I think I get what you are saying. I'll try pulling the o-rings out again and thoroughly cleaning and reoiling again. If this doesn't work, I will try pirating some others from my X valve. I need to place an order anyways, so I might as well pick up some spares.


Would it be possible as well when I took apart the piston assembly and flipped the inner o-ring that I didn't tighten the inner set screw enough, thus lessening the effectiveness?

[Ando]

Sorry for leaving you hanging OPBN.

Baa...That safety is always a pain in the A double S. I figured you knew how to pull it out. That was my bad. I might have a spare spring and ball in my kit that I can send ya. I'll have to ck first tho. I'll PM ya after I rummage through my stuff.

Open the piston and tighten the set screw all the way down. As long as that seal is still good and not torn, I promise that will fix your reg leak. I've done it on 2 of my RT's and I know a hand full of others on the forums have done it, all positive results.

About your battery...See if you have a Batteries Plus Store in your area. I would take it to them over a radio shack. I've used them a few times and I know for a fact they do free battery testing. At least the one by me does. You could also have them change out any bad cells (if you have any). It shouldn't cost much. I know ArmyEngineer had them put his whole E-mag battery together for about $16.

Here's the link to Army's thread:
https://www.automags.org/forums/showt...hlight=battery

BatteryPlus search for Ohio:
http://www.batteriesplus.com/store_l.../state/OH.aspx

[OPBN]

I was already missing the ball from the last time I took it out. I didn't realize there was supposed to be a ball in it and I thought I heard something bounce, but couldn't find it. So figured I was losing my mind. I realized my mistake when I put it back together and it wasnt working right. Oops. Already have an order I am putting together, so I'll have it fixed.

It was too late and the kids were in bed to start pulling stuff apart and teching tonight, so I'll see what happens with the reg tomorrow. Will update. We have some sort of battery store around here, so I'll give them a call. The kid at the RS was actually pretty decent, so I may give him a call. Seemed really helpful and offered tp build me a new battery pack if I needed.

[OPBN]

Oh, and thanks for all the help so far from everyone.

[OPBN]

Ok, so I finally got time to fart around with this again. I pulled the valve, and inner piston apart, tightened it and put it back together. No more leaking. Yay me!. Unfortunately, after leaving the battery on the charger overnight and airing up, no joy. Without the battery on, the valve fires well, even RT's a decent amount. On E-manual, it RT's more, but on strictly E-mode, zip, nada, nothing. I can hear the solonoid clicking, but it simply isn't doing anything. When I take the valve off and put into the back of the body and over the hole where the sear hits, it hits my finger pretty hard, so I am assuming the solinoid is still ok. Would this indicate that plunger needs adjusting?

[kcombs9]

what voltage is the battery putting out when its done charging?

[OPBN]

what voltage is the battery putting out when its done charging?

I have no idea. The previous owner said it's a KC battery and only 1 1/2 years old, so I think the battery is good. As mentioned, when I put my finger on the sear, it defintiely is pushing the sear with what I think is enough force.

[Ando]

When I take the valve off and put into the back of the body and over the hole where the sear hits, it hits my finger pretty hard, so I am assuming the solinoid is still ok. Would this indicate that plunger needs adjusting?

Right on. That's how I ck the plunge myself. I put a little bit of force with my finger in the hole. If it's smacking the hell out of it, then it's safe to say the plunger is good to go.

Lengthen the plunger .005 at a time and recheck it. Should fix the problem.

Getting a pair of calipers should be #1 priority

EDIT:
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=dig...pers&_osacat=0

[ArmyEngineer]

Right on. That's how I ck the plunge myself. I put a little bit of force with my finger in the hole. If it's smacking the hell out of it, then it's save to say the plunger is good to go.

Lengthen the plunger .005 at a time and recheck it. Should fix the problem.

Getting a pair of calipers should be #1 priority

EDIT:
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=dig...pers&_osacat=0

I picked up a pair of centech (offbrand) calipers from Harbor Freight a couple weeks ago for around $14. I took them in to the calibration guys at work and they said they were spot on. I think the battery life on those calipers is okay, but you would do well to take the cells out when they aren't going to be used for a while. Harbor Freight also has a $3 multimeter that is fairly accurate according to one of our techs. If you have a HF nearby, it is definitely worth $20 for a decent caliper and a cheap pocket multimeter.

[FA22RaptorF22]

Ok time to post up in here.

### Do this all in MECH MODE and pressure set to 7-800psi

Bolt stick on an R/T valve can only be a few things.

Check in this order.

1) take the bolt without the spring and drop it into the body and make sure it moves freely in there.

2) take all shims and carriers out of the powertube. Go big on the carrier and find the first one that doesn't leak (do this WITHOUT shims) Then add two shims and add or remove one as necessary

3) reassemble the gun and torque the frame screw and field strip with an allen key 1/4 to 1/2 turn past finger tight.

Now, fire up the gun with the velocity screw out till you see the ring on the screw. Fire and screw it in until it fully fires. Then add 1/2 turn.

Shoot it a few times in mech mode, and then swap over to E and rip on it and see if you get any bolt stick.

If bolt stick, you need to balance your springs out against the pressure of the level 10 carrier. Bolt stick means that the force of the spring is greater than the force exerted by the power piston in the bolt.

To remedy this, go down a spring. (red>gold>silver) If one spring down is too light, stretch it out some and adjjust as necessary. If all your springs still show bolt stick, go up 1/2 carrier size.

Please post your finding.

[Ando]

Raptor

He's not having bolt stick or did I miss something in his last post?