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Thread: Mini Compressor Update :)

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Mini Compressor Update :)

    I am happy to report the prototype is working VERY well and has filled a 68/4500 in about 20 hours. This is with a 16 RPM motor! (am I good or what?)

    This was using an 85 psi shop compressor feed which is really what makes the difference. The shop compressor hardly runs at all. For the people that didn't catch this in the other thread, a 68/4500 holds about 11 cubic feet of air when full. Your typical shop compressor puts out 90 psi at 5-10 cubic feet PER MINUTE. This means it should only have to kick on 2-3 times during the entire fill.

    The motor takes about 1 amp so the cost to fill a tank will be about 25 cents in electricity plus a few minutes on the shop compressor.

    The pump generates ZERO heat at this rpm. This is contrary to predictions made by "knowledgeable" people on the pellet gun forums. This also means what the gauge says is in your tank is actually IN YOUR TANK. No pressure loss from cooling after the fact.

    I am not getting any water in the system but I live in a dry climate. I am going to suggest that you put a water trap on your shop compressor. Adding a water trap will add expense to the product (I might offer it as an option).

    Everyone was speculating on filling a scuba tank. Typical scuba's are 80 cubic feet at 3000 psi. Given you can fill 11 cubic feet in a day, you should be able to fill a scuba tank in a week or maybe a bit less. This is an ESTIMATE so don't hold me to it.

    The fill rate is linear. Leaving something in your tank will help proportionately cut down on the fill time. Likewise topping off a scuba that's gotten half way down is a real possibility.

    Maintenance, yep your going to need to rebuild the thing once and a while. The o-rings are under a lot of stress but the good news is that you only need to replace 6 that take the most abuse. I have not had to replace any of the urethane o-rings yet and its been running for weeks. I have been lubricating it regularly, something I know a lot of you don't do until it breaks. I am not going to the expense of putting gauges on every stage. You will need to monitor your fill rate and if it takes too long you should just replace the 6 o-rings.

    I am making decisions on things like the quality of the pump shafts. As an example, you can get plain steel, chrome plated steel and hardened - chrome plated steel. The choice of shaft determines the robustness and time between rebuilds. If you tell me your going to use it once a month when you tinker with your marker, then you will be out of paintball before you have to mess with the compressor. If the majority of people tell me they are planning on filling their scuba tanks every week, the price is going to go up.

    I am trying very hard to make this affordable for all players. Now I need your feedback on how often you expect to use it so I can design it properly.

    Thanks!

    AGD

    Answers to additional questions in this thread:

    Its currently running at 16 rpm because I did all the testing and baselines at that speed. I have 96 rpm motors to try next but have not gotten to it yet. The design is NOT finalized and its unlikely that the 16 rpm motor is going to be in the production model.

    Without the shop compressor feed it would take several days to fill the tank (but would do it eventually).

    Will higher input pressures from the shop compressor make it fill faster? In theory yes but in reality no. The motor is sized to the pressures in the first stage particularly. If you overpressure the input it will likely freeze up the motor and burn it out if your not there to catch it. I am going with 85 psi because almost every shop compressor puts that out.

    This compressor will not cost less than 300 dollars and I am trying hard to keep it under 500. The motor is a huge expense and unless I can get them in China cheaper, its MORE than 200 bucks just for that. The motor is a big factor in the noise and reliability.

    The chassis everything mounts too has to be heavy steel so it doesn't move. The prototype is mounted on 1/2" thick aluminum plate 2 feet long by 1 foot wide and the motor FLEXES the plate every go around.

    The price difference between a best-of design and a minimum design is hundreds of dollars not 10's of dollars. A best-of design would have ball bearings not bushings, quiet, high quality, last forever motor made in America, brass instead of aluminum piston housings, hardened and plated shafts etc. Having just said all that, I don't think THAT design would be less than 500. There is a reason no one has done this before.

    From what I am seeing here it looks like the compressor will run one week a month for the average customer. You have to realize how many hours this is. 7 days X 24hrs X 12 months = 2,016 hours of run time per year. To put it in perspective, a full time job = 2,000 hours a year. Imagine hooking your marker up to a machine and have it shoot paintballs all day every weekday for a year. How long would you expect it to last?? This is why there is such a quality consideration here. If it wore out in 250 hours you would be complaining because that was only a couple dozen fills.

    I am listening to you and working hard on it.

    UPDATE 12-10-09

    I am now working with the 95 RPM motor and its filling a LOT faster. Estimates at this point are 6-8 hours for the standard 68/4500. It may be possible to downsize the motor to one less costly and go back to the 24 hour fill. I also have to try boosting the input pressure to 100+ psi. Don't give up hope on the $300 price tag!
    Last edited by AGD; 12-10-2009 at 09:26 PM.

  2. #2


    i would probably be using it about twice a month maybe less.
    price would be the big issue for me and i'm sure most everyone els. maybe a mid ground on price and qualty like most things lol.




    did you try it without the compressor yet? how long did that take?

  3. #3
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    No scuba tanks here - three 68/4500 tanks. I expect that I would be using the pump 3-4 times a month, depending on what projects I have going on.
    As far as the price goes, I am very determined to own one of these. But, the more expensive it is, the longer I will have to wait to actually purchase it.
    Last edited by Ratt; 12-09-2009 at 12:26 PM.

  4. #4
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    I would hope to use mine a few times a month. Not to split hairs, but can ya give us an example of what the cost difference would be for the different metals? Say Regular $5, Medium $10, High Grade $20 or would it be more extreme of Reg $50, Medium $150, High Grade $400?

    I don't know if you know that number just yet, but I'm sure you could find out and give a close guess.

    I usually shoot the best ratio. If it's 4 times more and only 2 times better I go with the the 2 times more and 2 times better.

    Thanx TK!!!

    DM

  5. #5
    I personally would like to use it to fill my scuba and to top off my 68/45. I play every two weeks or so, so I would say I would run it around 16ish days out of every month. I am willing to go pretty high up on price but wouldn't mind spending less . I really can't wait until this becomes available, go Tom

  6. #6
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    I would say I might use it to fill a 4500 5-6 times a month. I would probably use it to top off my tanks though after 3k goes into them from a scuba tank.

    Thank you again Tom for keeping a foot in the paintball pool. It's great to have a real thinker like you around to help all of us who really love this sport.

  7. #7
    I plan on using it to tinker

    toms the man

  8. #8
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    I would be looking at about 6 -10 times a month.

  9. #9
    Ok, this sounds too cool. I'll look around, but can anyone point me to the original thread of this?

  10. #10
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    Just do a search for all threads started by "AGD"

    Click on AGD as his name, click on View Profile, click on "All Threads Started by AGD"

    Give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish... and he eats for as long as the fish are bitin.

    DM

  11. #11
    Yeah, I found them and have been reviewing them for the last twenty minutes. I can definitely say I'm interested in this, and I bet I can get my team on board too We'd likely use it to top off a few SCBA tanks maybe once a month.
    Last edited by Jaron; 12-09-2009 at 03:03 AM.

  12. #12

    3-4 Times

    I would need use for this about 3-4 times a month but I have a feeling a couple guys on my team would alway be dropping off tanks to get topped off. Best bet looks like offering two levels. A single user and a team/heavy user option.

  13. #13
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    Talking

    Cost? I'm going to buy a compressor just so I can get this from you AGD! The stronger the better. I would rather spend more now and have it last a lot longer than deal with repairs. That's why I got into mags in the first place

  14. #14
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    If I could fill a 68 tank in my house, I'd probably do it between once or twice a month. Maybe I would also top my scuba tank every three months or so and I don't really think I'll do it more often.

    As for the finish, I don't really care for a shiny chrome unit. Plain steel would be just fine.

    You didn't say anything about the size of the final product. As I live in Brazil, I'd like to be able to carry it with me when I come back fron a trip to US. Will that be possible? Will it be larger than, say, a box of paintballs?

    Thanks and keep up with the good work, Tom!

  15. #15
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    I would use it on a scuba tank and use it about once a month... more in the spring/fall and less in the summer/winter.

  16. #16
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    I would use this on scuba tanks, and would rather a better quality one.

  17. #17
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    Like Devil Man said:

    You should offer the units in tier pricing.

    There should be replacement parts/upgrades that can be added on later on for the end user (not by the manufacturer,.... unless you want to do that) such as the o-rings you spoke of as well as the piston rods.

    I guess what Im saying is that this item should be no different than a paintball gun: Make it so it works right out of the box. However, if you want to upgrade it you can.

    ~ P8nt
    _______________________
    Jai "P8ntbal4me" Menard

  18. #18
    I have 4 HPA tanks that I would fill a couple times a month and two 92cf SCUBA's that I would like to top off when they need it.

    As MANN stated I would rather buy the better quality one.

    *** Not sure if this would have any value but could a full SCUBA be regulated down and used as the primary stage. I use this on my booster to get the SCUBA down to 400PSI http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/cart/i...roducts_id=174

  19. #19
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    I don't know that I would ever turn mine off, lol. Between my 2 68/45, a scuba, and my 3 kids tanks it would stay pretty busy. With that said I would want a the heavy duty model. Way to go Tom by the way, you have moved on a long with this fairly quickly since the conception of the idea. Glad to see the gears still turning !!

  20. #20
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    I would probably use this very often as I am constantly tinkering with or working on markers.

  21. #21
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    I will probably use it on those tinker occasions as well as the occasional outlaw ball

  22. #22
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    better quality please

  23. #23
    I know I may only plan on running this while tinkering, but once I get it and use it more I would be likely to fill my tanks more often to go play as well. I vote for higher quality steel.

  24. #24
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    I will be filling 4-5 tanks once a month, probably.

  25. #25
    At least a few fills a month for me

  26. #26
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    I would use it for my team so we would fill scuba tanks several times a month and regular HPAs on frequent basis.

    This is an awesome news Tom!

  27. #27
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    My question & im sorry if it has already been asked.

    My shop compressor is gasoline powered. Electric ist a option for now. I can run it up to full. But wouldnt want to leave it running. Would it create a problem for the mini compressor if the shop compressor runs out of air.

  28. #28
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    I would use it 2-3 times a month, actually, if I had that little compressor, I would probably fill more often, say maybe 3-4 times. I would rather buy the better quality one.
    Thanks Tom for all your work!!

  29. #29
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    I'd be on the low end. Probably use it once, twice a month. I generally fill after I leave the field and I'd mainly only use it for when I was messing with my gun.
    Superbolt

  30. Join Date
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    Awesom project! I'd also use it a few times a month.

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