velocity and spring question

[Madcat_MK2]

Hello, I was with some friends shooting one of my RT-ULE mags yesterday for first the time since replacing all the old orings it had on since the factory build years ago and while it did not have any leaking issues, the velocity was a little weird. Both my mags have always shot the silver spring but since that is not really needed anymore I wanted to move to the red to get back some efficiency. When he tested this mag with the silver, it was pretty dead on between 276-285 though admittedly my friend was not testing it in the "proper" trigger manner but despite that it was pretty consistent for the shots he fired. When I immediately swapped in the red spring and did not touch anything else, the marker started short stroking and dropped down to 252-255 which I thought was odd, so I adjusted it up some and then it would go 280, 315, 300, 290, 275, etc, though it did stop short stroking. Also, he kept to the same "improper" trigger pattern so I think it is still a valid comparison between the two.

I thought the red spring was weaker, so I would think the FPS should have shot up when we swapped since there was less push back instead of the opposite issue? Any idea on why it would short stroke like that?

This mag I only rebuilt the reg valve pin assembly o-rings, so do you think this might be a sign the little springs on it are worn or another part?

I've always tuned the powertube o-ring to the silver, so despite it not leaking, should I go down a carrier to squeeze it more and smooth out the action?

Would going to the red spring bring decently noticeable efficiency gains or am I sort of wasting my time since it seems to work and the difference between the two is not that big?

Thanks for the help!

[Tunaman]

Well first off, the silver spring is very hard to get working reliably...which is why agd doesnt use it anymore. You cant just change the spring..you have to readjust the carrier tightness also. I suspect you carrier is way too tight now.

[Madcat_MK2]

I could see that part as i remember having trouble getting an o-ring that would work with the silver and not leak, but I currently have that in there. It works fine with the silver right now and I literally just popped off the silver and popped on the red spring and tested. so if its good enough for the silver one it should work for the red, correct?

[Tunaman]

I could see that part as i remember having trouble getting an o-ring that would work with the silver and not leak, but I currently have that in there. It works fine with the silver right now and I literally just popped off the silver and popped on the red spring and tested. so if its good enough for the silver one it should work for the red, correct?

No. It cant be the same carrier for both springs. You are talking about the longest silver spring correct? Not the gold spring correct?

[Madcat_MK2]

Correct, the longest silver one. The carrier and o-ring were tuned to work with the longest silver and seemed to have issues with the red.

[Tunaman]

Correct, the longest silver one. The carrier and o-ring were tuned to work with the longest silver and seemed to have issues with the red.

The issue would be that the carrier is too tight now.

[Madcat_MK2]

Really? I'm confused now as I thought the longest silver was the most sensitive so you had to get the oring in that very delicate balance of super loose fitting - yet does not leak, whereas the red and gold are "weaker" and thus a slightly tighter o-ring is functional.

So then do I have to try a new o-ring? It does not leak now, but I believe I am at the largest carrier if I remember correctly though I'll have to check it later.

[Tunaman]

Really? I'm confused now as I thought the longest silver was the most sensitive so you had to get the oring in that very delicate balance of super loose fitting - yet does not leak, whereas the red and gold are "weaker" and thus a slightly tighter o-ring is functional.

So then do I have to try a new o-ring? It does not leak now, but I believe I am at the largest carrier if I remember correctly though I'll have to check it later.

Its the loosest carrier that doesnt leak

[Madcat_MK2]

hmm ok. I'll have to try messing around with the powertube o-ring again and see how it goes. Thanks for the help!

[Tunaman]

Not the powertube oring. The L10 carrrier oring...remove it and use it in the next size bigger carrier.

[Madcat_MK2]

Yup, I know what you mean. I just meant that as messing with it in general, though I have the |. carrier installed already. My mags are from about 2010-2012 group so that means I have carrier 0 - 1.5 correct? If so I assume the next one up from my |. is the 2.0? How often do people actually use the new sizes now besides what I currently have, though in this case may need to get?

[Tunaman]

Yup, I know what you mean. I just meant that as messing with it in general, though I have the |. carrier installed already. My mags are from about 2010-2012 group so that means I have carrier 0 - 1.5 correct? If so I assume the next one up from my |. is the 2.0? How often do people actually use the new sizes now besides what I currently have, though in this case may need to get?

It all depends on the tolerance of the orings that you have. That is the reason for the wide range of carriers.

[Sandman]

Are you using orings from AGD? I haven't seen a LVL 10 bolt use an oring over a #1.5 for the last 4 years coming from us. That's the reason we made #00 and #000 because most were starting at #0 or #.5 and once they were "seated" most times you have to drop below a #0 to stay tight. I Just find it interesting that you would have to use over a #1.5.
Cya

[Madcat_MK2]

Yup, they are the ones I ordered from AGD since I only get them from the store. I cant remember if they are the brand new set I ordered a few months ago or ones I've had on hand for a few years as now that I think about it, I do remember having leaking issues and wondered what was up with these new batches so I may have used my old ones not knowing this was a known issue with them now.

Though these ones do seem to work despite the slight issues I'm encountering, I could specifically try a known new oring and see how it goes since I now know why they kept leaking and I'm moving from the silver to the less tech sensitive red one. I have a game on Sunday so I could give it a shot then with the carriers I do have on hand as at least there I have plenty of air and chrony.

[Sandman]

Hopefully you have some new orings and get it up and running good. Keep in mind the silver spring was always meant to be "cut" and custom sized for guns. It was never meant to be used at full length. Most guns won't shoot at all if you just drop a silver spring in. It's way too tight. If you notice the silver spring is called the "FN" spring. Sound familiar...the FN303. The FN303 uses the silver spring for shooting over 400 FPS. but ehe valve is designed for the higher velocity capability.
Honestly there is basically no reason I can find to use anything other than the gold spring anymore. Even the red spring is overkill in most situations these days. But if you really want that level 10 to be sensitive then use the heavier springs.

[Madcat_MK2]

I swapped in some o-rings that I definitely knew was from the new parts kit I ordered and they seemed to work better this time. I didnt end up getting a chance to chrony it to see how the fps turned out, but it seemed to be better from the initial feel of firing it as the short stroking part thus far has disappeared and the carriers on hand worked fine. My main mag ran great during the game though and I also did the new oring swap, so I'm assuming this problem one will follow suit since they are basically identical now.

Yeah, I remember the cut part for it, but I guess I got lucky with mine as using the silver as-is never gave me much trouble other than the initial hassle of finding the one golden oring that would not leak, but still work. Getting the red to work was much easier this time though and it seemed to be a bit more efficient as well so I'm happy with it; though as you say, I may experiment with the gold too next game when I have the paint in hand.

Thanks for the help!