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Thread: Lvl X carriers

  1. #1
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    Lvl X carriers

    To all my mag technician brethren, I need help figuring this out. Thanks in advance for the assistance.

    I've spent the last couple of weeks trying to tune my Tuna valves' lvl x to perfection for my Armada build but I've hit snag in the process. I'm gonna need help with understanding the carriers, cause it looks like they are nothing like I remember them to be. If memory serves me right every line is a full step and the dots are a half step. When I got the valve I put it in my armada immediately starts leaking heavily through the bolt. De-gas it, remove the valve, take off power tube tip, look at the carrier it has a dot. Go up to the next size carrier, oil it put it back together again. Test it, leak still there but not as strong as before. De-gas, disassemble, go up to next carrier size. Oil, reassemble and test again. Slight leak, but isn't anything like it was previously.

    While I fighting with this leak, I also have another problem I'm battling with. Bolt stick/sear not resetting properly. So, I figured need to to 1 size further up. As I closely look at the carriers that came with my Tuna valve. I noticed a carrier with 2 lines doesn't exist. Instead I'm greeted with 2 carriers with a single dot, 2 with a single line, and 2 with 1 line and 1 dot. What also caught my attention was the fact that for each one the markings location was placed revered of each other. On one the dot was placed in the same side as the oring fits in the carrier. On the other the mark was placed on the side opposite of that. Since I have lvl x on my other mags, I pull out the spare carriers pull out a 2 line carrier and reassemble. When I test it out the leak was worse than when the single dot carrier was in.

    It was at this point, that I chose to methodically, test all the carrier and oring combinations. That came with the kit, after almost 2 tanks worth of air. Manage to figure out that the 1.5 carrier worked the best. However, leak still persisted and bolt stick still present. Although not as severe, just for laughs I threw in 2 shims, cause my other mags that have lvl x have 2 shims in them. And to my surprise bolt stick basically disppears, but leak still persists.

    After getting the back story here is my question. As I was testing the different carrier and oring combinations, I noticed that the markings that had had the same markings reversed fit very differently. One was tighter than the other using the same oring in both. I don't remember lvl x kits coming like this. What is the significance of this same carrier size but different fit?

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    Last edited by Bunny; 08-13-2019 at 08:38 AM.

  2. #2
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    Also, to pre-empt the comment. I also took the liberty of disassembling my marker completely, and reassembling it to make sure I didn't over tighten anything. I also pulled a retro valve from one of my other builds to check and see it anything was wrong with the body. Nope gassed up leak free and fired with no problems or any bolt stick.

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  3. #3
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    Did you solve this problem? There are 2 carriers with the markings on the opposite side. These are the latest, smallest carriers. Some times you have to tighten the field strip screw with a wrench. Let me know.
    Email me for low prices on ALL AGD Products and more. tunaman5@verizon.net
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  4. #4
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    Before I ran out of air. The problem was not solved. Did I miss a step somewhere when trying to troubleshoot?

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  5. #5
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    Check the oring itself. Perhaps it is not perfectly shaped. In such a case, you would have to overtighten it to get it to stop leaking, which would lead to boltstick. It doesn't happen often, but is something to check.

    Also, try test fitting the carrier and oring onto the bolt stem. That will give you an idea of the fit. It should slide on very easily. It it is too tight, the bolt could push the assembly to the back against the backer washer. It could be too tight, but still leak. It would be an extreme case of too tight, but could cause issues if it exists.
    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by athomas View Post
    Check the oring itself. Perhaps it is not perfectly shaped. In such a case, you would have to overtighten it to get it to stop leaking, which would lead to boltstick. It doesn't happen often, but is something to check.

    Also, try test fitting the carrier and oring onto the bolt stem. That will give you an idea of the fit. It should slide on very easily. It it is too tight, the bolt could push the assembly to the back against the backer washer. It could be too tight, but still leak. It would be an extreme case of too tight, but could cause issues if it exists.
    Alright, tomorrow I'll stop by my local shop to get my tanks filled and make the attempt at getting it tuned again. If that fails, I guess I'm going back to rockin the old lvl 7 bolts.

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  7. #7
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    I tune and fire every valve that leaves here. I am just wondering why you took it apart to begin with...
    Last edited by Tunaman; 08-11-2019 at 05:32 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tunaman View Post
    I tune and fire every valve that leaves here. I am just wondering why to took it apart to begin with...
    When I installed it in my armada build, it was leaking down the bolt pretty badly and there was bolt stick. I have 3 other mag builds, had the same issues for all 3 when I installed the valve in my other 3 mags.

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gundam V View Post
    When I installed it in my armada build, it was leaking down the bolt pretty badly and there was bolt stick. I have 3 other mag builds, had the same issues for all 3 when I installed the valve in my other 3 mags.

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    well if you cant get it going just send it here and I'll fix it for you.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tunaman View Post
    well if you cant get it going just send it here and I'll fix it for you.
    Kk, thanks for looking out tuna.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gundam V View Post
    When I installed it in my armada build, it was leaking down the bolt pretty badly and there was bolt stick. I have 3 other mag builds, had the same issues for all 3 when I installed the valve in my other 3 mags.

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    Tunaman is the expert here. If it was tuned when it left Tuna, then there is probably something not lined up just right with the valve when you put it in the body. It shouldn't exhibit the same issues in 3 different guns though. That does appear like a valve issue, but could have been induced by a change of some sort. Do the other 3 valves work in the Armada setup?

  12. #12
    It really sounds like a simple install issue.
    If you used a #000 carrier and still had a barrel leak then you'd be the first.
    Most of the time that carrier can't be used it's so tight. The oring has to wear/stretch quite a bit for that carrier to come into use.
    The common use of a shim is to stop bolt stick on level 10's. 2 shims is common. Many guns operate fine with no shims.


    Here's the link to the level 10 guide which also has the carrier markings on it.
    Level 10 guide.
    https://static.wixstatic.com/ugd/0e8...98c9173a9b.pdf

    Sandman
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  13. #13
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    I havent used any carrier smaller than a #.5 in the whole batch of valves so there is plenty of room for adjustment. I also tune them all in a 68 Automag classic with powerfeed body.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by athomas View Post
    Tunaman is the expert here. If it was tuned when it left Tuna, then there is probably something not lined up just right with the valve when you put it in the body. It shouldn't exhibit the same issues in 3 different guns though. That does appear like a valve issue, but could have been induced by a change of some sort. Do the other 3 valves work in the Armada setup?
    I should've payed more attention to what I wrote. When I installed it into my other mag builds, I never pulled the trigger to see it the bolt stuck. When the valve was installed and gassed up it leaked immediately. So I shut off the air, never checking for bolt stick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman View Post
    It really sounds like a simple install issue.
    If you used a #000 carrier and still had a barrel leak then you'd be the first.
    Most of the time that carrier can't be used it's so tight. The oring has to wear/stretch quite a bit for that carrier to come into use.
    The common use of a shim is to stop bolt stick on level 10's. 2 shims is common. Many guns operate fine with no shims.


    Here's the link to the level 10 guide which also has the carrier markings on it.
    Level 10 guide.
    https://static.wixstatic.com/ugd/0e8...98c9173a9b.pdf

    Sandman
    AGD
    I'll keep this in mind for future reference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tunaman View Post
    I havent used any carrier smaller than a #.5 in the whole batch of valves so there is plenty of room for adjustment. I also tune them all in a 68 Automag classic with powerfeed body.
    I managed to get the gun to stop leaking and bolt stick seems to have dissapeared. Haven't really messed with it, so I'll make sure to put some paint through it to make sure. Thanks for the insight everyone, it was greatly appreciated.

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