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Thread: Switched rails now having issues

  1. #1

    Switched rails now having issues

    Hello, I went from a stock rail to a Luke's costume gamma rail and now when I gas up the gun, x Valve it goes crazy just shooting . Have a nummech trigger with an intelliframe if any of that matters. any help would be very much appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Did you install the rail bushing when you switched out the rails?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Did you install the rail bushing when you switched out the rails?
    Yes

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    I would first go back to the stock rail and make sure everything still works right like that. It's possible something else is going on, and the rail change is just a coincidence.

    If everything works right with the stock rail, I would then look at the gap between the trigger and the sear arm. There should be a small gap (about the width of a credit card) when the marker is aired up. Otherwise the trigger can cause problems.

  5. #5
    update: switched rails back. i believe its a sear adjustment issue i think i had it to far in on the lukes rail which caused it to stick. going to switch it again. and probably have to adjust it some more. will give another update when i do . thanks everyone for the input

  6. #6
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    You need gap between the sear rod end and back of the trigger (when aired up) about the thickness of a credit card

  7. #7
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    Or use a rail that follows AGD spec...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    Or use a rail that follows AGD spec...
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhrostPhreek01 View Post
    Hello, I went from a stock rail to a Luke's costume gamma rail and now when I gas up the gun, x Valve it goes crazy just shooting . Have a nummech trigger with an intelliframe if any of that matters. any help would be very much appreciated.
    Did you get it figured out?

  10. #10
    I'm having some strange issues with mine too. Had a tac one that was functioning perfectly and switched to the full length tac one looking rail. The trigger rod stuck out further so that there was no space between the rod and trigger (intelliframe; stock blade trigger). After adjusting the rod so that there is a tiny gap, the gun won't shoot. I don't think it is pushing the on/off pin in enough. Need to buy and try out a longer on/off pin and see what happens.

  11. #11
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    Sounds like your trigger rod is still incorrectly adjusted.

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    The Hybrid rail is essentially an Automag rail so the trigger rod shouldn't change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RossT View Post
    I'm having some strange issues with mine too. Had a tac one that was functioning perfectly and switched to the full length tac one looking rail. The trigger rod stuck out further so that there was no space between the rod and trigger (intelliframe; stock blade trigger). After adjusting the rod so that there is a tiny gap, the gun won't shoot. I don't think it is pushing the on/off pin in enough. Need to buy and try out a longer on/off pin and see what happens.
    Is your rail a Hybrid Rail?

  14. #14
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    Suffice to say, because Luke could not follow AGD spec, any time you use a Luke rail, you will experience a problem. You loose the reliability, you loose the flexibility of swapping parts with any AGD product(except for the classic RT), and you just plain loose. Its sad to say, but the truth is, Luke's new rails changed the geometry of the sear and you will have nothing but problems.

  15. #15
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    PhrostPhreek and Ross, contact me about making arrangements to send in your markers, I'll gladly take a look at them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    Suffice to say, because Luke could not follow AGD spec, any time you use a Luke rail, you will experience a problem. You loose the reliability, you loose the flexibility of swapping parts with any AGD product(except for the classic RT), and you just plain loose. Its sad to say, but the truth is, Luke's new rails changed the geometry of the sear and you will have nothing but problems.
    Oh come on. That statement is not only wrong but extremely inappropriate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    Suffice to say, because Luke could not follow AGD spec, any time you use a Luke rail, you will experience a problem. You loose the reliability, you loose the flexibility of swapping parts with any AGD product(except for the classic RT), and you just plain loose. Its sad to say, but the truth is, Luke's new rails changed the geometry of the sear and you will have nothing but problems.
    Come on Nobody, you've already been down this road before. Luke has put up disclaimers and items to look out for on his site. We're lucky and fortunate that Luke does take the time to respond to people with issues to try to get their stuff working again.

    Just as your title under your name says, "Nobody's Perfect". Remember that.

  18. #18
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    Pro Team/Benchmark, 32 Degrees, Dye, Omega, Taso, almost all of them couldn't get the spec right. This is why when you sent your gun to AGD with any of these aftermarket parts on your gun AGD would take them off. The parts were basically ****. Not saying Luke's stuff is bad as I have never had one of his rails that didnt work. Always take your dimensions off of an old school 68 Automag and it will work every time. Dont change the specs and expect people to know any different down the road.
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  19. #19
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    For all intents and purpose Hybrid Rails are Automag rails, and they are to spec where it matters. I have sold 100 Hybrid rails, I'll warrant these two markers have some other issue.

  20. #20
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    No one uses Automag rails on Emags, does that make classic rails out of spec?

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    For all intents and purpose Hybrid Rails are Automag rails, and they are to spec where it matters. I have sold 100 Hybrid rails, I'll warrant these two markers have some other issue.
    You are probably right. My marker was working fine before I switched rails and I switched it back to the old rail with a new sear with unadjusted trigger rod and it isn't shooting either, so it can't be the rail.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossT View Post
    You are probably right. My marker was working fine before I switched rails and I switched it back to the old rail with a new sear with unadjusted trigger rod and it isn't shooting either, so it can't be the rail.
    No worries, we'll get it straighten out.

    Did you get the marker in the mail yet?

  23. #23
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    This is an overlay of the RTP and Hybrid rails, the only spec difference between the two is the .0714" BELOW the sear pin. The proper spec is maintained between the sear, on/off, bolt, and body. I have compared my CAD to the AGD CAD files and they are exact where it matters.

    If these rails or anything I do pisses you off, hold my beer because I'm only getting started!

    Name:  HYbrid RTP.PNG
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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    This is an overlay of the RTP and Hybrid rails, the only spec difference between the two is the .0714" BELOW the sear pin. The proper spec is maintained between the sear, on/off, bolt, and body. I have compared my CAD to the AGD CAD files and they are exact where it matters.

    If these rails or anything I do pisses you off, hold my beer because I'm only getting started!

    Name:  HYbrid RTP.PNG
Views: 98
Size:  41.9 KB
    Paging Nummech to the "Luke Rail Spec Debate" thread... Paging Nummech to the "Luke Rail Spec Debate" thread
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobsterboy View Post
    Paging Nummech to the "Luke Rail Spec Debate" thread... Paging Nummech to the "Luke Rail Spec Debate" thread
    To be fair, it's just as fair to say Nummech isn't compatible with LC rails. It's a two-way street and and that incompatibility can pretty easily be fixed by Nummech. The sear design on hybrid rails is a design choice, not an oversight.

  26. #26
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    The Classic AM sear sits below the bottom of the rail too.

    Neummech and I have already discussed this, he said he was going to make adjustments on the next run of frames if he makes more.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyxyll View Post
    Oh come on. That statement is not only wrong but extremely inappropriate.
    No. The one feature, before it was a feature, was the modularity of AGD products. Other than the classic RT, you can take any product and apply it to any other and it will function properly. Not saying things won't wear out or come out of spec(spring packs, sear rods, springs, etc), but within the hard parts, their should be a set spec that you stay in and things will work as intended by Tom Kaye.

    By changing the spec, you are changing the reliability and the use of product.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbtamu1011 View Post
    Come on Nobody, you've already been down this road before. Luke has put up disclaimers and items to look out for on his site. We're lucky and fortunate that Luke does take the time to respond to people with issues to try to get their stuff working again.

    Just as your title under your name says, "Nobody's Perfect". Remember that.
    Disclaimer? Just staying in spec would remove the need for a disclaimer and the problems associated with a part that does not work.

    So, everyone that made products(Magnus, Tuna, XMT, KAM, Deadlywinds, etc) is wrong for staying within spec? Did they take it upon themselves to alter parts just for their needs? No, those before knew to stay within the guidelines so everyone can use parts without problems.

    And it's 'Nobody is perfect'...

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    This is an overlay of the RTP and Hybrid rails, the only spec difference between the two is the .0714" BELOW the sear pin. The proper spec is maintained between the sear, on/off, bolt, and body. I have compared my CAD to the AGD CAD files and they are exact where it matters.

    If these rails or anything I do pisses you off, hold my beer because I'm only getting started!

    Name:  HYbrid RTP.PNG
Views: 98
Size:  41.9 KB
    If it matters, then the geometry to the trigger would be correct and there would be no need for spacers, sear rod adjustment, nor you to fix anything to get good, reliable parts.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    No. The one feature, before it was a feature, was the modularity of AGD products. Other than the classic RT, you can take any product and apply it to any other and it will function properly. Not saying things won't wear out or come out of spec(spring packs, sear rods, springs, etc), but within the hard parts, their should be a set spec that you stay in and things will work as intended by Tom Kaye.

    By changing the spec, you are changing the reliability and the use of product.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    Disclaimer? Just staying in spec would remove the need for a disclaimer and the problems associated with a part that does not work.

    So, everyone that made products(Magnus, Tuna, XMT, KAM, Deadlywinds, etc) is wrong for staying within spec? Did they take it upon themselves to alter parts just for their needs? No, those before knew to stay within the guidelines so everyone can use parts without problems.

    And it's 'Nobody is perfect'...
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobody View Post
    If it matters, then the geometry to the trigger would be correct and there would be no need for spacers, sear rod adjustment, nor you to fix anything to get good, reliable parts.
    I think I understand why you're frustrated, but I think you're perceiving Luke's design choice to be a bigger issue than it is. Yes, everything north of the sear pin in the sear assembly MUST match AGD spec otherwise you're going to have serious issues. But the hybrid rails are fully complaint there! South of that sear pin however is a lot more flexibility. If there wasn't, then you'd never get a Benchmark frame to work. Benchmark frames reposition the sear rod in a rather weird orientation and often/always require a sear rod adjustment. Ever seen any of rawbutter's modded frames? None of those frames are even remotely close to AGD spec, yet they still work. There's a lot more room to play around south of the sear pin than you may realize.

    The only currently incompatible product, at least that I know of, is the Nummech frames, and it's not fair to blame that only on LC. Both products are aftermarket and neither designer can be expected or responsible to know each other's design. Nummech's frames have a narrower gap than AGD frames. We're not calling foul about that. Both manufacturers have already talked and worked out a solution for products moving forward.

    Instead of hating, can we not just applaud both Nummech and LC for making cool gas-through frames and automag-height RTP rails? This community is small, and I want to see it grow. Discouraging innovation isn't going to help us grow.

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